A tip to all hopeful game makers.

Started by RoseSkye, February 29, 2012, 04:29:15 am

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Heretic86

Just out of curiousity, do any of you allow the player to go "behind the counter" in shops and inns and allow the player to have "non-business" conversations with the shopkeepers?
Current Scripts:
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Current Demos:
Collection of Art and 100% Compatible Scripts

(Script Demos are all still available in the Collection link above.  I lost some individual demos due to a server crash.)

Blizzard

I think I did add that on a few occasions in CP. But it's usually just simple stuff like "Talk to me from the other side of the counter if you want to buy something".
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Subsonic_Noise

You could also have them say something like "What are you doing here? This is for employees only" and have them push the player away. :P

Heretic86

I think Shop Owners are more important characters than people tend to realize.  If they run a shop, as game designers, we imagine their only purpose is to sell the player their items, services, and goods.  But, from their perspective, they see a LOT more than just the player.  They see others that came in to buy things that might not necessarily be used for a purpose that is inline with the players assigned goals.

Just my two cents, but Shop Owners being used as story telling mechanics could be utilized to heavily expand the depth of ones in game universe.  "I have a bad feeling about those last guys that bought all those swords from me!"
Current Scripts:
Heretic's Moving Platforms

Current Demos:
Collection of Art and 100% Compatible Scripts

(Script Demos are all still available in the Collection link above.  I lost some individual demos due to a server crash.)

Calintz

that's a good point. if you feel like your storyline has begun to dull in the specific city that you're in, or you find that there is quite a bit of free time between two plot events; you could give the character a quick laugh.

GrimTrigger

In my never ending quest to add life to my cities and towns, I try to make shops a bigger part of gameplay. For example, I reasoned the shopkeepers would meet a lot of people throughout the day, so I include a "rumors" option for them. They can fill you in on local news, provide side quests, and sometimes give you background information to bolster the main plot. In addition, weapon and armor vendors can inform you of the local tough guys (who would frequent these places) and sometimes provide training.

Heretic86

/agree

It seems to me that the non essencial text of the story that a player isnt forced to read is what brings RPG games to life!  So instead of having one NPC saying something useless for the entire story (hence that story variable suggestion I made earlier) like "I like cheese", depending on how far a player has progressed through the story, what they say can be more relevant to the current events.  But thats kind of just repeating what I said earlier.  Ok, now I got a thing in my head that I want to do where if the player goes behind the counter and talks to one of the Shop Keepers, he asks them why they arent wearing any Pants!  Just something to make the player giggle briefly...
Current Scripts:
Heretic's Moving Platforms

Current Demos:
Collection of Art and 100% Compatible Scripts

(Script Demos are all still available in the Collection link above.  I lost some individual demos due to a server crash.)

GrimTrigger

Here's a question for you all....do any of you break up what items are sold in a shop, such that crafting items, healing items, and armaments are sold in different locations?

I tend to follow , as a rule, that the larger and more prosperous a town is, the more specific a shop's inventory becomes. In my capitol city, I have multiple shops along the "main street" that sell various things, but each one has a specific theme. One is standard recovery item shop, whereas its competitor sells alternative medicine, which can be more expensive, but sometimes have added effects. I also break up armor and weapons in the rich cities, and the capitol has two weapon shops that sell slightly different gear.

ShadowPierce

Quote from: GrimTrigger on April 19, 2012, 08:12:57 pm
Here's a question for you all....do any of you break up what items are sold in a shop, such that crafting items, healing items, and armaments are sold in different locations?

Yes. I have both the armor and weapon shops in a single building. Food & recovery in a cafeteria, herbs & alchemy materials are sold by a botanist, pet items in a barn, forging materials in a blacksmith, and a few smaller shops in a "bazaar" that sell miscellaneous alchemy, forging and recovery items. ;)

Quote from: Heretic86 on April 19, 2012, 05:21:15 am
Just my two cents, but Shop Owners being used as story telling mechanics could be utilized to heavily expand the depth of ones in game universe.  "I have a bad feeling about those last guys that bought all those swords from me!"

Sounds like an interesting idea. :D They can be excellent clue-givers to help players progress in their plot. A great example would be the majority of the "Tales Of" games... :haha:

And yes, NPCs may seem like just a bunch of unimportant characters to make the city look less empty but they actually play a vital role in creating the feel for an RPG and making the game look like a real living, breathing world. Just my thoughts... :P

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GrimTrigger

Quote from: ShadowPierce on April 19, 2012, 08:46:08 pm
Yes. I have both the armor and weapon shops in a single building. Food & recovery in a cafeteria, herbs & alchemy materials are sold by a botanist, pet items in a barn, forging materials in a blacksmith, and a few smaller shops in a "bazaar" that sell miscellaneous alchemy, forging and recovery items. ;)


Like I said before, depending on the wealth and size of a town, I may choose to keep weapon and armor shops separate. I enjoy dense cities, but I hate having tons of generic homes (to pillage for stuff of course  :naughty:) so I through in lots of services.

I'm trying to get the food and drink script to work, and once I get it working, I'll put in restaurants and bars. Maybe I'll find a way to incorporate drunkenness into the game.

ShadowPierce

Quote from: GrimTrigger on April 19, 2012, 09:15:22 pm
I'm trying to get the food and drink script to work, and once I get it working, I'll put in restaurants and bars.

Making a thirst/hunger system sounds like a fairly easy task. If you have a basic understanding of RGSS, you can easily do this. ;)

Quote from: GrimTrigger on April 19, 2012, 09:15:22 pm
Maybe I'll find a way to incorporate drunkenness into the game.

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Quote from: Blizzard on February 16, 2011, 03:44:48 pmThere you go. It's the proof that SDK is crap. It's incompatible with itself.
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GrimTrigger

Another tip I can add (while taking into account my noobishness) is to try to find ways to cheat during your game. Check walls, try to obtain strong equipment as fast as possible, try to find ways around restrictions, etc....

>I found out during my play testing that I had messed up the map in a single cell, allowing the player to waltz straight into a guard tower that, upon entering, triggers one of the "end-game" switches, unleashing random encounters with MAJORLY strong monsters....

>Another time, I realized I forgot to charge money for specific services that grant you can item. Easy click-sell-repeat exploit.

I find sometimes, because YOU are familiar with the game, you have a natural tendency to play the way you are *supposed* to play by default. Nothing makes me more mad than not catching a mistake until much later on.

Heretic86

Test those games thoroughly as youre developing them!  Some bugs I dont mind, but really, if I find one of those bugs like you mentioned, and I know it is just a human mistake, I'd have to say it knocks the quality of the game down like ten notches.  A lot of slack will be cut for the indy game, but when I see it in professional games, it gets on my nerves.
Current Scripts:
Heretic's Moving Platforms

Current Demos:
Collection of Art and 100% Compatible Scripts

(Script Demos are all still available in the Collection link above.  I lost some individual demos due to a server crash.)

GrimTrigger

Quote from: Heretic86 on April 20, 2012, 04:07:18 am
Test those games thoroughly as youre developing them!  Some bugs I dont mind, but really, if I find one of those bugs like you mentioned, and I know it is just a human mistake, I'd have to say it knocks the quality of the game down like ten notches.  A lot of slack will be cut for the indy game, but when I see it in professional games, it gets on my nerves.



I find the most annoying thing in a game where you can tell the creator simply pulled something out of their *** to make the story progress. I know sometimes I have a really cool idea, and I write it all down, plan it out, but can't seem to find a way to make it fit into the story. Sometimes, in my opinion, a person working on a story can get so caught up in throwing in "cool stuff" that they forget to make a story believable.



djskagnetti

My game is set underground.  There are only 3 cities.  Each city except for the largest city contains only shops/inns, a mayor's house, and maybe 1 or 2 others for the richest people in the towns.  Due space constraints from living underground, not everyone can own a "flesh and bone home", so they created something called Pockethouses, which is basically a house set in a dimensional rift that they teleport to.  You can buy your own Pockethouses and buy better upgraded versions, all the way up to your own paradise island.  Everything in the world that is not a city is a thematic dungeon of varying shapes and sizes, styles and elements called the Wilds.  Every dungeon connects to the next dungeon.  Basically, to get from 1 city to another, you have to battle your way through one giant dungeon.  There are crystals along the way that teleport you back to the city, which unlocks the 2nd crystal in the city so it becomes like a 2-way teleporter to an area, so you don't have to walk back the whole way to heal up and buy stuff, and also kind of provides a checkpoint in a way.

Which is like everything you guys just said not to do LOLOL

GrimTrigger

Quote from: djskagnetti on May 21, 2012, 06:22:56 am
Basically, to get from 1 city to another, you have to battle your way through one giant dungeon.  There are crystals along the way that teleport you back to the city, which unlocks the 2nd crystal in the city so it becomes like a 2-way teleporter to an area, so you don't have to walk back the whole way to heal up and buy stuff, and also kind of provides a checkpoint in a way.

Which is like everything you guys just said not to do LOLOL


Do you allow access via teleporter selectively? In other words, do you have each teleporter go to one or more specified places, or does each teleporter handle all unlocked areas? I have set up a horse drawn carriage system similar to that found in skyrim to allow players to access cities they've been to already, as well as reach new ones without walking. I only set it up to handle the closest locations, and it's expensive to use.

djskagnetti

Nope, just one crystal that goes to one area from a city or vice versa.  Which I guess makes the city kind of a hub, you could transfer to the city from one area and then use a different crystal to go to another area.  A few cost money to use, but most don't, once it's unlocked it's unlocked.   It's actually hard to get other cities because you could use a transporter that gets you close but you'll have to battle your way for the rest of the trip.  It's not until late in the game that the cities become connected through transporters.  Ps.  Skyrim put a HUGE dent in my rpg making time, twice, lolol

ConflictedX3

I want to Give a personal thank you to Roseskye, i read this post about 9 days ago and i hadn't worked on my game in MONTHS, but somehow that stanza of opinion gave me a burst of inspiration and i've spent the last week+ cleaning up a project i thought wouldn't be able to contend with these super fancy, a million scripts games.

Now i picked my lane, trying to expand within' that lane, use what i need & have to the best of my abilities and have become weary of throwing in things that aren't going to improve my game and are in truth some ultimately useless, flashy, but randomly (& thus poorly) implemented feature.

In the words of one of those lil b fans: TYBG (Thank You, Based God)
Would you believe Im a Rapper who owns his own Indie Label too? On top of my RPG Maker Interests? No? WELP! --> http://soundcloud.com/conflictcp  & POW!: http://www.youtube.com/user/IOIEntertainment

Landith

OMG Lil B...lmao

I agree though, some great tips in this topic.

R.A.V.S.O

Quote from: GrimTrigger on April 19, 2012, 06:31:52 pm
In my never ending quest to add life to my cities and towns, I try to make shops a bigger part of gameplay. For example, I reasoned the shopkeepers would meet a lot of people throughout the day, so I include a "rumors" option for them. They can fill you in on local news, provide side quests, and sometimes give you background information to bolster the main plot. In addition, weapon and armor vendors can inform you of the local tough guys (who would frequent these places) and sometimes provide training.


Actually what I once did was... have a town purposely give you crappy items for very huge prices, but if you
decided to actually walk over the counter and talk to the shopkeeper you could get better items by exchanging (not gold) other less valuable items. like... potions at 600 gold, (crappy deal) if you walked over the counter...
you could strike up a bargain of 2 hi-potions for an ether,

also another tip... make a town HATE you XD

You've seen this before, (*cough* FFIV *cough*) a town where shopkeepers either sell you the items at extremely inflated amounts of cash or plain deny you the service of a weaponry & armory (+ inn-keeping if you're really aching for some NPC hate), also have the NPC's either deal damage, place unwanted ailments. and trigger hate cut-scenes XD

just because there's a town in the middle of a world map does NOT necessarily mean it IS a haven with cheap inns and a conveniently placed save spot (if any)

bonus points if by sheer story progress you actually make the town start accepting you, that actually incorporates player bonding which in return adds to comical situations
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