The Effects of Emasculation

Started by Blizzard, April 23, 2012, 03:19:43 pm

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GrimTrigger

I've noticed this, and discussed it with friends, both male and female.

This is what we've come up with (All things mentioned are my opinions based on what I've observed.)

1. Removal of the male in parenting.

In my opinion (before people jump down my throat without reading) I think a big problem is that the male is being relegated to a "pay for it" role in terms of parenting. I see, on TV, real life, movies, and literature, the role of the father increasingly becoming nothing more than a wallet. On the other hand, mothers, (especially single mothers) are shown as the "do-it-all" masters of child-rearing. IMHO, it is difficult for a woman to raise a boy to be a man. She can raise him to be a well-meaning, well-mannered adult, but I've noticed a direct correlation between a time a father spends with his son, and the level of masculinity the kid possesses. This is not simply the female's fault. Everyone can be blamed for this, as many men seem to think "paying for it" is the only thing they need to do as a father. This of course isn't an ironclad rule, but something I've noticed. It's a shame that in in today's media it's popular to portray a husband/father as an idiot. I think this works to drive the male out of the parenting realm. This leads me to my next theory.

2. Male bashing media.

Turn on the TV, and you'll notice the plethora of programs where the husband is portrayed as simple, unintelligent, and obsessed with base-desires like food, sex, and sports. While guys do think about these things a lot, you almost never see a smart, deep male character with a lame slob of a wife who he constantly ridicules and gets away with it. (This is not always the case, but I'm speaking from what I've seen. INB4 omg "x" show has.....) I believe this stems from the "popularity" of seeing a woman "win" or "put her husband in his place." Marketers know what sells, and male bashing is one of them. (On the flip side, objectifying woman is still prevalent, thus marketers are the devil on both sides of the gender fence. See Bill Hicks for further explanation on Marketers. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDW_Hj2K0wo

3. Political Correctness Abuse

Pretty self-explanatory, but essentially (IMO) you can almost never criticize females on their wrong-doings, yet men are given the axe. This was heavily prevalent on my college campus, as well as in public discourse (news, etc.) Boys begin to feel pressured to "go with the flow" and follow what is popular opinion. If an issue is negatively affecting boys/men, they aren't given the time of day.

4. Really really REALLY bad advice.

Boys are simply given really *****y advice when it comes to life, women, and their own gender identity these days, (IMO.) Tying in with the points above, boys are taught to act *nice* and essentially be push-overs, providers, etc. Of course, I'm not advocating all men act like jerks, but I definitely think men need to realize many of them are being bred to be doormats. I've been told by girls when I was younger (never take advice about girls from girls btw) that you need to always pay, bring flowers, treat her like a princess, do what she says, etc etc. That doesn't work, and guys I've seen who do this wind up foreveralone, or making the girlfriend/wife resent them for being such a pansy. Also, boys are being raised to resist their gender identity, and in many ways, emulate girls. I saw this all throughout school. Perhaps it's just easier to teach if everyone is same? This is not claiming that girls are inherently wussies, but claiming that guys' path to manhood doesn't involve emulating a woman. I think we'd make great progress if we came to realize that men and women can both be equally successful in almost all fields, but they may prefer different routes to get their.

The biggest offender (IMHO) is teaching boys that they "need" a girl or they will be seen as weird. Boys need to learn how to be men, from other men, and focus on figuring out their own identity, dreams, etc. No man (or woman) should feel they "need" the other to be complete, (IMO.) I highly doubt a woman would be interested in a needy man anyway. This is why strong, positive male role models are essential, just like strong, positive female role models are needed for girls.


My recommendation to fix this:

Opt-Out of the Matrix

Stop giving your dollars/time/consent to shows, movies, programs that bash men and promote boys to emulate girls or act like doormats. Let your distaste for such things be heard, and stick up for a brother if he's being attacked for doing the same. Economics says whatever you subsidize, you get more of (generally) so they longer men buy into a system that is hostile to them, you're fighting a losing battle. Vote with your dollars, since the polls won't save you.

Stop dealing with women who buy into the whole "boys are stupid, throw rocks at them" mentality. There are plenty of great women who hate these kinds of girls, so no sense in settling for a man-hater. Once women see they can't get away with misandry and find a boyfriend/husband, they *hopefully* will change their tune. If not, at least you dodged a bullet.

Stop letting women have all the say when it comes to raising boys. Take the time to be a positive, masculine role model in a young boys life. My father did this for me, and not a day goes buy that I'm not grateful. Teach a boy how to *actually* deal with girls, how to compete, how to follow his passions regardless of what the peanut gallery thinks. Show him it's OK to embrace his gender, rather than be ashamed of it. One thing I was told by my father was to not listen to music for advice on women. I instantly noticed almost all songs about girls are full of pathetic, almost stalker-ish behavior. Makes for good music, but not always the best advice for the real world.


Just my $0.02.

~Grim

Blizzard

April 24, 2012, 03:40:10 am #21 Last Edit: April 24, 2012, 03:45:30 am by Blizzard
Quote from: Subsonic_Noise on April 23, 2012, 07:38:41 pm
Meh. I don't agree with either of both extremes. I'm not what's decribed in the video and I'm not the oh-so-idealized manly man, I'm a healthy mix of both, and perfectly happy with it. I support feminism (I'm talking reasonable feminism here, not "Oh god skyscrapers are symbols for penises") and see people as equal and give them respect regardless of gender. People are worrying about things like this far too much. Some men are gonna be submissive, and some women will, and from my point of view there's no way someone -has- to behave. If a man is a so-called pussy and doesn't get laid because of that, it's his thing. If he wants to change that to get laid, he can, and if he doesn't, that's perfectly fine. I don't think there's anything wrong with men acting femine either. I know some that do and they are perfectly fine people.

To stop ranting and sum up what I'm trying to say, people are making too much fuzz about how others -should-  or -should not- behave according to their gender. It doesn't matter, and it doesn't hurt you. Behave whatever you want to behave like, and allow others the same right.


I don't really agree with this. Of course, everybody should live their life as they see fit. But the problem isn't whether you act according to your gender or not, the problem is that you don't act the way you actually want. Most men are actually not happy to be emasculated. This can be observed by their behavioral patterns. They are usually frustrated and not happy with themselves, they don't stand up for themselves. This indicates that they are not acting how they actually want. They have been fed with the wrong beliefs for their whole lives and they are not even aware of this. In a sense they are unhappy and they don't know why.
Sure, there are men who are feminine and not as "manly" as other men, but you can tell the difference between somebody who's naturally a more feminine person from somebody who is acting like one because that's how they have been told their entire life. You can compare it to the analogy of a gay man trying to his his homosexuality and trying to act like a heterosexual the whole time in front of his friends. There is a huge difference.

I'm really not sure how good feminism is of an idea. I really do believe in the equality of gender, but each gender has strengths and weaknesses. I don't believe that the genders should try to reverse roles this extremely because it obviously doesn't work. Men on leashes are not happy and hardcore feminists are always angry and frustrated. I really have to yet meet a feminist woman who is not the least bit off. So far every feminist I have met has serious psychological issues with overcompensation, ego and lack of self-confidence and self-esteem. I am for independence, but feminism doesn't look like independence for me. It looks to me like independence when they feel like it. :/

As for equality, IMO this is a bad word for it. Equivalency is much better. Men and women are not "equals" (as in "the same"), they are equivalent (as in "having the same value").

As for the slapping, I agree. If she slaps me, I can decide to slap her back. I wouldn't slap her first because I don't believe in violence. But if I get attacked, I will defend myself. The problem is the possibility of the crap that is shown to happen in the videos: Bitch slaps guy, police stands still, then Guy slaps back and police are all over him. :/
Oh well, there's always the possibility of catching her hand in mid-air and stopping her. But you have to be able to read people well and have good reflexes for that. xD

@Calintz: There were periods in my life (mostly the earlier teenage years) where my father wasn't around either. I don't blame him, I know the reasons and I know he chose the lesser of 2 evils. But my mother's influence in that part did do some damage. Though, I don't blame here for this either. There are many good things my mother has taught me. Just because there were many wrong things, doesn't mean she was a bad mother. Actually on the contrary, I probably had a better mother than most people. In any case after I got more independent, I have learned the right values in life to become a real man. I still believe in values like being chivalrous, maybe even a gentleman, etc. But there is a limit to things. I will not be kind to a person who's being a dick/bitch. In fact I will actually strike back 2-3 times harder because I don't allow people to take their shit out on me. I will be a gentleman to a person whom I believe deserves it, regardless of gender. But I will not be a submissive pussy. If I am being a gentleman, I am being a gentleman because I want to. It is a gift from me with no strings attached. Most men are just being gentlemen because they want to get into women's pants. They are submissive in the hopes of getting laid. Sadly, this is the worst mistake they are making. Women by nature love to be dominated, it's hardwired in their genes. Men are taught to be nice to women which is completely wrong. Grabbing a women, pulling her in so that she feels that you're in control actually turns her really on. You don't have to be a jerk about, just let her feel the man in you and she'll love it. Hence why I agree with you and with what the videos are showing.

Do you know what actually happens when a hardcore bitch meets a man that actually puts her in her place? She goes crazy about him and wants to fuck him and keep him under all costs. She's been deprived of a real man for so long since she's surrounded only by pussies. It's like getting some water after a whole day in the desert. So be careful when you come across one of those. You may not want to turn her on too much. :naughty:

@winkio: Women want equal benefits and pros, but they don't want equal cons. That's not equality or equivalency, that's just special rights.

Quote from: winkio on April 23, 2012, 10:28:46 pm
Where are all the male secretaries, cleaning staff, etc?  Some jobs appeal more to one sex than the other, does it really make that big of a difference?


This is exactly what I am trying to say. We are not equal, we are equivalent. One gender is suited better for one job while the other is better suited for other jobs. Or there are preferences, it doesn't matter. Mutual respect for somebody else's strengths and complementing their weakness with one's own strength is what should be happening.

@F0: I agree with you. And this is how it should be. Women are naturally better at some jobs, men are naturally better at other jobs. If there's a case of somebody wanting a job where the other gender is better, go ahead. Not all people are the same. But expecting special treatment because this is not their gender's preferred job is just bullshit. It's like "I want all rights for my gender, but I want the rights of your gender, too!"

@GrimTrigger: Very well said. I especially agree with male bashing. There's also another aspect of this. By selling sex (aka half-naked women jumping around or in sexy poses) it also creates a fake illusion that sex is something far more than it actually is and that women are dominant, sexually self-confident and whatnot. This is actually so far from the truth, it's not even funny. The worst thing is that men are being brainwashed into believing they are worthless and then they are bombarded with sex being this big thing they are not worthy enough to have. I mean WTF. This is so much bullshit I don't even know where to being explaining how wrong this is.

One thing that is very interesting in general, it's how the media are teaching men to avoid doing everything that actually women like and that turns them on. Can you believe that? Women love to be teased, yet we are told not to criticize women. Women love to be dominated, yet we are told to be submissive. Women love to be touched, yet we are told that we'll get a sexual harassment suit if we as much as bruise our hand accidentally on her back.

Funny enough women don't know who they are or what they want either. They are also brainwashed into believing that sex is bad and that they have to find a doormat for a husband. This is then the advice they give men about women. Be nice, buy flowers, pay for the dinner, etc. They are telling men this stuff because they have been told this stuff. It's not what they really want, it's only what they think they want.
It's not just men being robbed of their sexual identify, it's also happening to women. Women probably love sex more than men, yet they are taught how it's filthy and how they will be sluts if they have sex, etc.

@everybody: My whole point is: If somebody is a soft person FOR REAL, it's ok. But if a man was just brainwashed to be a soft person (aka pussy), that's not good. They are not really who they are, they have been brainwashed to be a fake. And they can't help themselves, because they don't know what's wrong. They can't be happy, because they are not really who they are.

EDIT: I just wanted to add that I hate the double moral of the gold-digger bitch from the video getting free dinners. Just because men are pussies and bootlickers today, doesn't mean you should exploit it. She could have said "no, I won't do that." She wants to be free and independent, yet she accepts free meals. Pure double moral. If I want to be independent, I won't accept free meals all the time. Sure, I don't mind being treated sometimes, but that's like once in 2 months maybe, not every single day!
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Quote from: winkioI do not speak to bricks, either as individuals or in wall form.

Quote from: Barney StinsonWhen I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

Subsonic_Noise

Again, I'm sorry you made bad experiences with feminists :P But those extreme ones don't represent the idiology. Yes, men and women aren't the exact same.
But interlectually, and let's keep in mind that that's one of the, if not the biggest defining feature here, they are equal. As for feminism, it, in it's natural form, includes rights and duties, meaning for example that women should have army duty or at least something equivalent, as well. And let's not forget that early feminism played a big role in accomplishments such as women being allowed to vote etc. A big part of what they are working for is social issues though, and those are difficult to work against. It's been tried to change them through law, but in the end, it's people's minds that need to change.
I know plenty of feminists (being around intelligent, politically active people does that to you :P) or women interested in feminism, one of them being my girlfriend, and they are all down to earth intelligent people who ask for equal rights as well as equal duties. The problem you have is that you take the worst examples and pass them off as if they were representative. It's like judging the muslim religion by islamist terrorists. That's not how it works. Sure, there are bad examples of everything, but feminism itself is a good thing and should be supported.

Blizzard

Gender equality/equivalency should be promoted, not feminism. Feminism does not seem to me to promote that women are equal than men but that they are better than men. This is wrong. It implies that women should be given more rights than they currently have, regardless of whether there already have equal rights or not. Obviously feminism is not what it used to be in the beginning.
It seems that every movement, if it survives for long enough, becomes corrupted in one or another way. :/ I am for equal rights, but I am against feminism as I have seen how much damage feminism has done to both men and women.
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Quote from: winkioI do not speak to bricks, either as individuals or in wall form.

Quote from: Barney StinsonWhen I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

Subsonic_Noise

Quote from: Blizzard on April 24, 2012, 07:17:14 am
Gender equality/equivalency should be promoted, not feminism. Feminism does not seem to me to promote that women are equal than men but that they are better than men. This is wrong. It implies that women should be given more rights than they currently have, regardless of whether there already have equal rights or not. Obviously feminism is not what it used to be in the beginning.
It seems that every movement, if it survives for long enough, becomes corrupted in one or another way. :/ I am for equal rights, but I am against feminism as I have seen how much damage feminism has done to both men and women.

And you choose to ignore how much good it has done? :P Also, again, the core of  feminism IS equality / equivalency. You can't blame the movement for the few extremists. The problem is that extremists draw more attention, especially with modern media nowadays. That doesn't mean that they -are- the movement itself though. Admit it, there is more on the media about extremist muslims, christians, etc. You're a christian, Blizz. You should know that a movement isn't represented by its extremists. Think of what extreme christians have done. The crusades, burning witches, attacking homosexuals, etc etc etc. Does this make christianity in general a bad thing?

Blizzard

You forgot the pedophile priests. :V
It stained Christianity enough for me I have abandoned it. Even though I did it because of completely different reasons, I am glad that I cannot be associated with a religion that basically did go ahead and slaughtered loads of people that probably had nothing to do with anything just because somebody occupied the grave of their savior. The longer I am alive, the more Christianity seems flawed to me. But that's another discussion.

I'm not gonna argue whether feminism is bad or not, because my opinion is that it has brought more bad than good longterm. It's hard for me to imagine a movement called "feminism" would promote actual equality while at the same it's called "feminism" and not "gender equality" or something along those lines and while it's trying to get more and more rights for women regardless of the fact that we already live in a world with laws for that stuff. Sure, as you said, laws don't make people change just like that, it takes time. But 50+ years? Come on. That's over 2 generations. The people who fought for and against the initial feminist movements are already dead. If you look at the world and how women are treated, I'd say that they are treated better than men. Equality my ass. Just like somebody said earlier, they want their version of equality.
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Quote from: winkioI do not speak to bricks, either as individuals or in wall form.

Quote from: Barney StinsonWhen I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

Calintz

April 24, 2012, 12:39:37 pm #26 Last Edit: April 24, 2012, 12:54:28 pm by Calintz
i have to back Boris on this one. i agree with much, if not all of what he has said.

@Sub:
you constantly recite the core values of feminism, but that isn't what's in question here. i don't think anyone would disagree to say that the core values of feminism are wrong (not even i think they are), rather it's the practice that's flawed. take my government for instance! democracy is a wonderful thing in theory, but it's the practice of democracy that's become warped and distorted and allows for the real damage to be done. feminism is the same in this manner. in theory, it's a beautiful thing, but the practice is flawed.

i would argue that a big factor for what i just mentioned is the name of the movement itself. the name "feminism" suggests the empowerment of one gender over the other, even when the movement's core values don't. this is where a lot of distortion could arise. when a name doesn't truly reflect it's movements beliefs, it can only lead to the wrong message being portrayed to its target audience.

so putting those core values aside, i set my sights on the real debate and Blizzard's first post, which is how feminism has affected men and women and caused a widespread affect of emasculation, which IMO is a negative effect.

@Blizz:
oh god, i hated that bitch who was scoring free meals from guys!
if girls EXPECT to be treated like that, then why don't men deserve that little extra in their paycheck? now don't mistake me! that statement is not to say that men deserve more money, but it blows my mind how a gender specific movement will fight to have the same privileges of their counterpart, and then EXPECT to reap the benefits! news flash for a traditional girl like her! in traditional times...MEN MADE MORE MONEY TO PAY FOR YOUR MEAL! LOL. i guess IMO, the true balance lies in give and take, not "equality."

Subsonic_Noise

Quote from: Calintz on April 24, 2012, 12:39:37 pm
i have to back Boris on this one. i agree with much, if not all of what he has said.

@Sub:
you constantly recite the core values of feminism, but that isn't what's in question here. i don't think anyone would disagree to say that the core values of feminism are wrong (not even i think they are), rather it's the practice that's flawed. take my government for instance! democracy is a wonderful thing in theory, but it's the practice of democracy that's become warped and distorted and allows for the real damage to be done. feminism is the same in this manner. in theory, it's a beautiful thing, but the practice is flawed.

The practise might not be perfect, but there is no perfect, easy way to get rid of outdated social norms, which, in essence, is the problem. If there was a perfect practise to rid the world of those, we'd probably be living in a world of sunshine, rainbows and puppies.

If your sarcasm detector didn't go off on this one you might concider exchanging it.

Quote from: Calintz on April 24, 2012, 12:39:37 pm
i would argue that a big factor for what i just mentioned is the name of the movement itself. the name "feminism" suggests the empowerment of one gender over the other, even when the movement's core values don't. this is where a lot of distortion could arise. when a name doesn't truly reflect it's movements beliefs, it can only lead to the wrong message being portrayed to its target audience.

You mean, just like the homosexual rights movement tries to put homosexuals over straight people because they aren't named "Equality of Sexual Orientation Movement"  :facepalm:
The name of movements like this often contains the group that has been wronged by society, which women were and still are when it comes to lots of things. That has nothing to do with them getting -more- or -special- rights, but them being brought up to a level with men when it comes to that. This still hasn't happened. Do you know any true feminists? Or are you judging everything from the extremists you heard about?
And let me tell you something, the whole thing that is adressed with boys being raised by single mums? (Which isn't a problem really, the video takes single cases and generalizes them with no statistical basis at all) Guess why it's single -moms- rising kids so often? Because it's a social norm that women are supposed to raise the kids, not men. Yes, this has improved a bit since many years ago, but it's still there. That's one of the things feminism actually wants to change. There's absolutely no problem with a man raising children, or a woman, or a man and a woman, or two men or two women. All of those combinations can raise a healthy child of either gender as it has been proven over and over. I could write more now but meh, I'll do that another time.


Quote from: Calintz on April 24, 2012, 12:39:37 pm
so putting those core values aside, i set my sights on the real debate and Blizzard's first post, which is how feminism has affected men and women and caused a widespread affect of emasculation, which IMO is a negative effect.

For you. So don't let yourself be "emasculated", and let others be however they want to be. Most of the more feminine guys I know are perfectly happy the way they are. You're applying your own values to other people.

Taboo

I know I'm late to the conversation, but, Sub, if skyscrapers aren't monuments to our penises then what the hell are they? Are you trying to tell me that my life is a lie?

Subsonic_Noise

Quote from: Taboo on May 06, 2012, 11:25:37 pm
I know I'm late to the conversation, but, Sub, if skyscrapers aren't monuments to our penises then what the hell are they? Are you trying to tell me that my life is a lie?

Yes

Spaceman McConaughey

May 07, 2012, 12:56:06 pm #30 Last Edit: May 07, 2012, 01:07:08 pm by Tuggernuts
You know what I think? I think this debate is fucking stupid.

Quote from: Taboo on May 06, 2012, 11:25:37 pm
I know I'm late to the conversation, but, Sub, if skyscrapers aren't monuments to our penises then what the hell are they? Are you trying to tell me that my life is a lie?


I also think skyscrapers being monuments to penises is a very old(and boring) joke.

Blizzard

You know what I think? I think this debate just became fucking stupid when skyscrapers and penises were introduced.
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Quote from: Barney StinsonWhen I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

Subsonic_Noise

Nah, I introduced that as an example of what an extremist feminist is to seperate them from regular feminists - because that's what some of them actually say, I know from experience. :P It became stupid somewhere around the last 4 posts.

Tazero

If a girl punched me, I wouldn't just sit their I'd either A)Hit back or B)Eat her children

If the golden rule is Treat other how you wanna be treated then do it. -.-


If you were a fish...

RoseSkye

I don't have a father and there are no effects on me. I mean my vagina doesn't bleed more than once every 3 weeks.

ForeverZer0

Ah, nothing like reviving a dead topic with spam posts...
I am done scripting for RMXP. I will likely not offer support for even my own scripts anymore, but feel free to ask on the forum, there are plenty of other talented scripters that can help you.

EntropyUSB

Quote from: Blizzard on April 23, 2012, 03:19:43 pm
aka: How today's men are pussies.

http://manhood101.com/media.html


I believe there is a fine line between being a pussy and being sensitive.

Being a pussy pretty much says "you are weak willed and kind hearted to the point that you let anyone step all over you"
Being sensitive pretty much says the exact same thing, but minus the being stepped all over situation.

Heck, even I am one of those "sensitive" guys and I don't really like to force others into something they don't agree with; but at the same time, if someone tries to overpower me, they better be expecting a fight and some broken bones in their immediate future.
Spoiler: ShowHide

Blizzard

Usually being sensitive implies being a pussy, because most people aren't sensitive. They are just pussies, but they are labeled (and label themselves) to be sensitive, because they don't understand the difference.
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EntropyUSB

Quote from: Blizzard on October 19, 2013, 03:34:23 am
Usually being sensitive implies being a pussy, because most people aren't sensitive. They are just pussies, but they are labeled (and label themselves) to be sensitive, because they don't understand the difference.


Or maybe, those who have no feelings and are cold-hearted have no sensitivity that they assume being nice at all is being a pussy as well.
Spoiler: ShowHide

Blizzard

That's a strawman argument and has no relevance.
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