A few questions about the editor's features.

Started by Trinitygamer, December 25, 2012, 03:44:53 am

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Trinitygamer

Ok, after trying to make a few mini games in my game on RMXP, i noticed a few features that it doesn't have, but that i wish it DID. i can't make a balloon popping minigame because you can't use the mouse, i can't create a 'base' or 'house' that you can make furniture in (i managed to make something like this, with a LOT of events on the board), and i can't do several other things that are starting to become common in a lot of RPGs.

In fact, a lot of the more common rpg things can't be done in RMXP unless your a coder. The problem with that is: most of us aren't coders, which is why we use RMXP or others in the RPG maker series in the first place.

So, it got me wandering, will ARC have these abilities? Here's a list of all the features I wish RMXP had. tell me if any of them will be in ARC:

In game:
1) ability to activate events with the mouse (balloon popping, button pushing, etc.)
2) the ability to click and drag events (puzzles, locks, etc)
3) ability to dynamically create events with other events (furniture placement, etc)
4) the ability to dynamically create storage (this is more of an extenuation of #4. it's for things like chests, closets, dressers, etc)
5) the ability to dynamically create 'copies of an entity' or 'copies of a mob/monster' (for catching games. I used to think that pokemon was the only RPG like this, but then my friends got me Spectrobes, digimon, Demikids and more. anyway, the point is, i wanted to know if it was possible to 'create copies of a monster' for the player to train/work with.)
6) Character storage: This is technically possible in RMXP, but there's no visual, you have to use a bunch of variables, and creating it with events is a pain.
7) vehicles (seriously? Why did they get rid of it in RMXP, but yet have them in all the other ones? so not fair)
8)

Editor:
1) does the battle scene mobs work the same as rmxp, or does it use the 'player database' characters. if it used the player base characters instead of a seperate database, that would make it possible for the user to set what level possibilities the monster would have, and just let the game calculate the strength/defence/speed and so on the same way it would the players. it's much easier, and it would mean we wouldn't have to create 6 of the same mobs for 6 different levels.
2) ability to say 'the player can move through water if variable a is on, but can't move on grass, and vise versa' (you can do this in RMXP, bu it tends to cause errors unless you do it with a wall of events)
3)*-*-*-* the ability to have the game bring up a list of the items in the inventory for the player to choose between. (this is the number 1 feature that RMXP lacks. there are so many issues with rmxp not having this. Since RMXP doesn't have it, it means that you HAVE to code to do it, which sucks. if we can do this in ARC, then it would make it easier to create more interesting puzzle events, create 'give gift events' with NPCs like in a sims game, EASILY create crafting systems without having to code, and allow other types of minigames to use items to decide things as well (like fish bait for fishing mini games. what kind of fish bait you use effects what kind of fish you catch. that kind of thing.)
4) menu creation. (i have no idea how this would work, but i just decided to pull it out of my head at random)
5) more questions to come.

Are any of these going to be in the editor/game engine? (sorry about it being a long list)

PS. i'm about to start my pixel art tutorials, i got side tracked (making a game in unity, 3d modeling is a pain) when i finish uploading the first one, i'll let you know.

Blizzard

December 25, 2012, 06:18:20 am #1 Last Edit: December 25, 2012, 06:45:17 am by Blizzard
As you already said, most people aren't coders and that's why they don't understand the difference between editor and scripts. The scripts provide the functionality and the editor only provides a way to set up that functionality. We are making a new editor, not new default scripts.

Quote from: Trinitygamer on December 25, 2012, 03:44:53 am
1) ability to activate events with the mouse (balloon popping, button pushing, etc.)
2) the ability to click and drag events (puzzles, locks, etc)


This is a script. There are several mouse controller scripts out there.

Quote from: Trinitygamer on December 25, 2012, 03:44:53 am
3) ability to dynamically create events with other events (furniture placement, etc)
4) the ability to dynamically create storage (this is more of an extenuation of #4. it's for things like chests, closets, dressers, etc)


There are scripts for this kind of functionality.

Quote from: Trinitygamer on December 25, 2012, 03:44:53 am
5) the ability to dynamically create 'copies of an entity' or 'copies of a mob/monster' (for catching games. I used to think that pokemon was the only RPG like this, but then my friends got me Spectrobes, digimon, Demikids and more. anyway, the point is, i wanted to know if it was possible to 'create copies of a monster' for the player to train/work with.)
6) Character storage: This is technically possible in RMXP, but there's no visual, you have to use a bunch of variables, and creating it with events is a pain.


Yet again: custom scripts.

Quote from: Trinitygamer on December 25, 2012, 03:44:53 am
7) vehicles (seriously? Why did they get rid of it in RMXP, but yet have them in all the other ones? so not fair)


And yet again, this is a script functionality and there are scripts for that kind of stuff already.

Quote from: Trinitygamer on December 25, 2012, 03:44:53 am
1) does the battle scene mobs work the same as rmxp, or does it use the 'player database' characters. if it used the player base characters instead of a seperate database, that would make it possible for the user to set what level possibilities the monster would have, and just let the game calculate the strength/defence/speed and so on the same way it would the players. it's much easier, and it would mean we wouldn't have to create 6 of the same mobs for 6 different levels.


This is limited by the scripts. Enemy troops can't contain actors. We are not editing the scripts so because of that this can't be done in the editor either.

Quote from: Trinitygamer on December 25, 2012, 03:44:53 am
2) ability to say 'the player can move through water if variable a is on, but can't move on grass, and vise versa' (you can do this in RMXP, bu it tends to cause errors unless you do it with a wall of events)


This is not a an editor feature. There are scripts for that kind of stuff.

Quote from: Trinitygamer on December 25, 2012, 03:44:53 am
3)*-*-*-* the ability to have the game bring up a list of the items in the inventory for the player to choose between. (this is the number 1 feature that RMXP lacks. there are so many issues with rmxp not having this. Since RMXP doesn't have it, it means that you HAVE to code to do it, which sucks. if we can do this in ARC, then it would make it easier to create more interesting puzzle events, create 'give gift events' with NPCs like in a sims game, EASILY create crafting systems without having to code, and allow other types of minigames to use items to decide things as well (like fish bait for fishing mini games. what kind of fish bait you use effects what kind of fish you catch. that kind of thing.)


Sorry, but this is yet again another script. Before you can add any kind of additional functionality to the game which can then be accessed in the editor, you first need to make a script which supports this feature. As I already said, we are not making scripts.

Quote from: Trinitygamer on December 25, 2012, 03:44:53 am
4) menu creation. (i have no idea how this would work, but i just decided to pull it out of my head at random)


Can you be more specific? If you mean custom menus, you should know that every window and every script is literally a script.




I'm sorry that I have to shoot down all of your ideas, but those are all scripts requests, not feature requests for the editor to do stuff that already exists or make stuff easier to do in the editor itself.
It's true that the full version will have different defaults scripts from RMXP, but the features you request all still define very specific functionality rather than being generic systems. There are some features that may work in theory, but they will cause lots of problems with custom scripts.

e.g. When copying events, all variables have to be copied. While this is generally possible (and actually easy to make with a script), depending on what kind of additional data some custom scripts define, the copying process can act unpredictably. One of the problems is the so-called problem between shallow-copy and deep-copy. You can look it up if you want. Or the other feature to bring up a dialog to pick items? An item selection dialog already exists, but it's used in a completely different context so it would still require a script to control it.

I noticed that a lot of your requests are for stuff that is supposed to be acting like a Pokemon game. You should probably use a script designed for that instead of trying to make a complicated system as such (or request it to be made by people who aren't making scripts). You could try the Pokestarter Kit.
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ThallionDarkshine

The custom menu creation sounds like a good idea. Maybe it would be possible to create scenes and windows via a visual editor in the editor that would generate the script for that scene/window. I'm sure many people would like this feature, especially because this would allow games to be much more unique, instead of depending on other people's scripts.

Blizzard

Actually there is one. xD I remember seeing a visual menu editor a long time ago. It would allow you to customize the size of the window and the generic information displayed (basically the stuff that already can be displayed with RMXP's default script such as player level, graphics, etc.) In the end the editor would generate you the script for the window display.
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Quote from: winkioI do not speak to bricks, either as individuals or in wall form.

Quote from: Barney StinsonWhen I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

Trinitygamer

December 25, 2012, 02:30:35 pm #4 Last Edit: December 25, 2012, 02:31:36 pm by Trinitygamer
Quote from: Blizzard on December 25, 2012, 06:18:20 am

I'm sorry that I have to shoot down all of your ideas, but those are all scripts requests, not feature requests for the editor to do stuff that already exists or make stuff easier to do in the editor itself.
It's true that the full version will have different defaults scripts from RMXP, but the features you request all still define very specific functionality rather than being generic systems. There are some features that may work in theory, but they will cause lots of problems with custom scripts.

e.g. When copying events, all variables have to be copied. While this is generally possible (and actually easy to make with a script), depending on what kind of additional data some custom scripts define, the copying process can act unpredictably. One of the problems is the so-called problem between shallow-copy and deep-copy. You can look it up if you want. Or the other feature to bring up a dialog to pick items? An item selection dialog already exists, but it's used in a completely different context so it would still require a script to control it.

I noticed that a lot of your requests are for stuff that is supposed to be acting like a Pokemon game. You should probably use a script designed for that instead of trying to make a complicated system as such (or request it to be made by people who aren't making scripts). You could try the Pokestarter Kit.


Um, no. I've never heard of vehicles in pokemon, or locks, or dinamic storage... 0.o as for the other things, that's just a coincident, though i think the reason why you assumed 'make a pokemon game' is because i used it as an example.

Anyway, maybe i'm misunderstanding what you mean by 'features' and 'scripts'. because as far as i know, all the features you've mentioned in your posts ARE scripts. as are all the features in RMXP. 'condition branch' = 'if statement'. 'control variable' = 'variable' these are things in the editor, but they are script pieces as well. Every feature that i see in rmxp, the dialogue box, the switches, the characters, the animations, everything is scripts. when i hear 'new features', i assumed it was 'well, there is an inventory, now let's add an easy way to access it' kind of thing. It's why i asked.

However, on a note that is probably going to sound vary rude, and i apologize for it if it does, but your comment about it having the exact same scripts as rmxp is starting to make me wander. if it's going to be the exact same as rmxp, then what's the point of spending money on it if i already have rmxp? I mean, i understand if it can't have any of the things that i mentioned above, but to say 'it's going to be the exact same' kind of makes me raise my eyebrows a bit. please tell me i misunderstood you?

As for all the 'scripts out there', yeah, i think about 1 in every 100 lets you use them for commercial games, and they are usually the things you can just event anyway. Even your scripts don't allow for commercial games (i checked). and all 'mouse event' scripts are based off of your script, so they all have the same license. T_T

AliveDrive

Quote from: Trinitygamer on December 25, 2012, 02:30:35 pm
As for all the 'scripts out there', yeah, i think about 1 in every 100 lets you use them for commercial games, and they are usually the things you can just event anyway. Even your scripts don't allow for commercial games (i checked). and all 'mouse event' scripts are based off of your script, so they all have the same license. T_T


Would you pour hours of your own time into making a script for free?

The Chaos Project and RPG Maker community in general has a large amount of resources that are available in commercial products free of charge.

If you can't find the one you want, maybe learn to script? There are plenty of tutorials and community resources available to help with this.

If you don't want to learn to script and you don't want to pay someone to script for you, then consider going scriptless like me. :D
Quote from: Blizzard on September 09, 2011, 02:26:33 am
The permanent solution for your problem would be to stop hanging out with stupid people.

Blizzard

There will be 2 versions of ARC:

1. Legacy Edition
2. Normal Version

The Legacy Edition is basically made to run on an engine very, very similar to RMXP. There are a few extra things such as better performance, native support for more than 3 mapping layers, etc. The strong point here is the editor as it will allow you to easier organize your database and make mapping and scripting easier. The Legacy Edition is basically a heavily improved RMXP editor with some extras in the underlying engine. The default scripts of RMXP are not edited in any way, though.
This version will be free of charge regardless of what kind of game you are making.

The Normal Version (or we call it sometimes Full Version or Full Edition) is a completely new engine with completely new scripts. As a matter of fact, some of your ideas actually may end up in the Full Version (namely vehicles, inventory prompt window, etc.), but we are currently focused to finish the Legacy Edition. But keep in mind that none of the already existing RMXP scripts will probably work in ARC just like that so we're starting at a user base of 0. That's why we first want to finish the Legacy Edition. When people see what we are capable of, their trust will help us kick-start the full ARC Engine.
The Full Edition will also be completely free of charge. The only point where you are required to pay a fee is when you want to release a commercial game. You can make your whole game in ARC without having to pay anything and if you decide in the last moment that you want to make it a non-commercial game, you don't have to pay anything. In other words, you can make games without having to pay anything, but if you want to earn some money, that's the point where we require you to pay for a license.
Check out Daygames and our games:

King of Booze 2      King of Booze: Never Ever
Drinking Game for Android      Never have I ever for Android
Drinking Game for iOS      Never have I ever for iOS


Quote from: winkioI do not speak to bricks, either as individuals or in wall form.

Quote from: Barney StinsonWhen I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

Trinitygamer

Quote from: Blizzard on December 25, 2012, 02:56:21 pm
There will be 2 versions of ARC:

1. Legacy Edition
2. Normal Version

The Legacy Edition is basically made to run on an engine very, very similar to RMXP. There are a few extra things such as better performance, native support for more than 3 mapping layers, etc. The strong point here is the editor as it will allow you to easier organize your database and make mapping and scripting easier. The Legacy Edition is basically a heavily improved RMXP editor with some extras in the underlying engine. The default scripts of RMXP are not edited in any way, though.
This version will be free of charge regardless of what kind of game you are making.

The Normal Version (or we call it sometimes Full Version or Full Edition) is a completely new engine with completely new scripts. As a matter of fact, some of your ideas actually may end up in the Full Version (namely vehicles, inventory prompt window, etc.), but we are currently focused to finish the Legacy Edition. But keep in mind that none of the already existing RMXP scripts will probably work in ARC just like that so we're starting at a user base of 0. That's why we first want to finish the Legacy Edition. When people see what we are capable of, their trust will help us kick-start the full ARC Engine.
The Full Edition will also be completely free of charge. The only point where you are required to pay a fee is when you want to release a commercial game. You can make your whole game in ARC without having to pay anything and if you decide in the last moment that you want to make it a non-commercial game, you don't have to pay anything. In other words, you can make games without having to pay anything, but if you want to earn some money, that's the point where we require you to pay for a license.


Yeah, i was definitely misunderstanding something, i was under the impression that it was all 1 editor, which is why i was wandering 'it's going to be the same?'. sorry about that.

AliveDrive

As for releasing ARC for free, and charging a fee for commercial use, this is extremely beneficial to someone like me.

I love RPG Maker as a hobby, but if I were to make a commercial game with it, it would stop being a hobby and feel more like work.

I have a question that may have been answered already: Is the script editor in ARC going to be color coded?
Quote from: Blizzard on September 09, 2011, 02:26:33 am
The permanent solution for your problem would be to stop hanging out with stupid people.

Blizzard

Check out Daygames and our games:

King of Booze 2      King of Booze: Never Ever
Drinking Game for Android      Never have I ever for Android
Drinking Game for iOS      Never have I ever for iOS


Quote from: winkioI do not speak to bricks, either as individuals or in wall form.

Quote from: Barney StinsonWhen I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.