Author Topic: The Event Editor you WISH you had.  (Read 15036 times)

Offline Ryex

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The Event Editor you WISH you had.
« on: May 09, 2013, 07:47:18 AM »
Here's the thing, a LARGE part of my stalling over the event editor was that I had only very vague ideas on how I wanted to design it. sure I COULD of just copied RMXP's for the legacy edition and left at it that but frankly that felt clunky, hard to maintain, ugly, and completely in contrast with what ARC was trying to achieve. if you examine my work over the years you will notice that the one big consistency is that I ALWAYS try to push boundaries and redefine what the system should be I don't settle for good enough, it's not me.

Well I'be had some brilliant ideas over the last month or so that have coalesced into (what I feel is a brilliant) for the event editor.

I'll list the features of the event editor as well as the issues I had with RMXP and how I'm going to address them.

Pages: The page feature in RMXP is a powerful tool but it's design from a user perspective was completely confusing, most people had a very hard time figuring out how to use it. and it wants because of in adaquit documentation so much as it was about bad design

And So, I introduce, the "Page Stack" This will be presented as a simple to use panel that will display a stack of pages for those of you unfamiliar with the event page system it worked like this the game started at the highest number page and found the FIRST page whose conditions were met and ran that page. this is a powerful logic tool but the way its' interface was designed made this behavior very unclear. the new system will display the pages with the high pages first in a stack with the conditions to run that page next to the page name. This simple display technique as well as some other design choices  like well placed arrows and wording of columns ect. I hope to make the behavior clear to the casual observer without needing to dive into the the documentation.


Graphic Display / movement behavior/  trigger:

yet another item that wasn't always clear. The cluttering of the condition logic, display and movement behavior made the event screen hard to navigate and I even now find myself losing track of where options are located in the interface and how they behave.

The solution? Move this information into a separate panel and display only what is necessary. The event graphic option will only be visible if you select to add a graphic to the event. a Simple "Add Graphic" button that is in the event page properties panel will add a group of options to manipulate the graphic and how it displays providing useful information like what a move animation will look like. what frame and direction is the default selection, it's blend mode ect. will and be grouped and well explained.

similarly button will add event triggers and movement behavior with  a special dialog that will help better display movement behaviors visually with option like displaying arrows with frame numbers and using the map as a background for the arrows to plan movement ect. (this particular feature may be delayed in the interest of getting the dam thing out, feature creep can be a problem)

mutually exclusive options wont display at the same time allowing for a clear understand of the behavior of an event from a glance

Event Command display:

the language and way in which RMXP displays event commands has always been hard to read you may be able to read the command name but you rarely understand the parameters unless it's a condition or display text command. ARC will address this by formatting event commands in a more "Plain English", the current implementation plan even allows for a user to obtain or make their own translations with the ease or changing a HTML template

Copy Paste:

one BIG problem I've always had with RMXP was that it was extremely difficult to copy and past events and share event systems with others online with out having to go through and reprogram the events based off screen shots. I wont stand for this in ARC I originally though to make an "event language" programming language that was plain English enough that people could learn it with much greater east than ruby but will still translate to the existing event structured. I dropped this plan after some thought as too unwieldy and near impossible to achieve with out far more work than it was worth. Instead, with the advise of Blizzard at my back I'm opting to implement a import export system that will let you import or export sections or who event pages into an XML like format.
this meant copying event should be as simple as selecting some event commands like text and clicking export then copy pasting some text into an import dialog. this xml will also have the advantage of being clear English and with a little know how it should be possible to write entire event systems outside of the event editor by typing out some xml.

This system will couple with s snippit system that will allow you to save commonly used pieces of events (like door animations ect.) with the project and quickly import them into an even in progress quickly and easily.

Finding What you need:

When I first started out and indeed still today I was frustrated by the 3 tabbed dialog that pops up when you add an event command, it slow and hard to find what you want quickly.

In ARC all possible event command will be displayed in a list to the left (or right) of the event command display box that is categorized, searchable, filterable, reorder-able ect. and adding event command will be as simple as clicking a button or dragging a command form the list into the page. cant find what you want? type the first few letters of the command and the list will be shorted to include only the commands that have that phrase. want to only work with weather commands? filter the list to the weather category. This system will be especially useful in Full ARC where the number of even commands you could have at your disposable could be quite numerous depending on plugins.



What do you think, Love the idea so far? thing it sucks? want to suggest some improvements? Post bellow!

Keep in mind that none of this will actually change the underlying system that event work on. the information will just be displayed much better.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2013, 01:27:28 AM by Ryex »
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Offline Zexion

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Re: The Event Editor you WISH you had.
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2013, 09:53:57 PM »
I like all the ideas except the last :\ for me the pages was always extremely convenient in that I knew each page had a general category of buttons.
First is general event commands including messaging variables etc.
Second is map commands.
Third is stats and what not.

I like the pages though D:

What I would suggest is better conditions for variables. Not if variable is greater than, but leave that part selectable with choices for greater than, less than, equal to, etc.

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Re: The Event Editor you WISH you had.
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2013, 10:26:57 PM »
Pages: We can't do that in LE. We can't alter the RTP scripts. But I do agree on a redesign in the full version. I know that it can be done better.

Better conditions (by Zexion): Yes for full, but in LE we have yet again the same problem of not being able to alter the RTP scripts.

Everything else: Love it. There's not really much I can add.
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Offline Ryex

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Re: The Event Editor you WISH you had.
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2013, 01:26:26 AM »
oh the pages thing wont change scripts. it will simply be a redesign of how that info is displayed

@Zexion there will sill be easy to identify groups, you will scroll them and be able to search them instead of dealing with the ugly modal dialog and the stupid tabs
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Re: The Event Editor you WISH you had.
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2013, 08:22:36 AM »
If so, then go for it.
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Offline ThallionDarkshine

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Re: The Event Editor you WISH you had.
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2013, 12:39:47 PM »
All these features sound so awesome! This is DEFINATELY the event editor I wish I had. And I agree totally with Zexion: the variable condition system is really hard to work with in RMXP. And I'd really like it if you could have any number of conditions, which could be of different types such as switch condition, variable condition, script condition, etc.

Offline Eclipse

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Re: The Event Editor you WISH you had.
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2013, 05:16:07 AM »
What up all. So hows it coming so far Ryex?

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Re: The Event Editor you WISH you had.
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2013, 08:25:21 AM »
YEAH, RYEX, HOW'S IT COMING ALONG
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Offline Eclipse

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Re: The Event Editor you WISH you had.
« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2013, 01:28:09 AM »
Bump.

What's the word?  Lay it on me guys.

Offline Ryex

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Re: The Event Editor you WISH you had.
« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2013, 01:41:01 AM »
well I might of been a little over ambitious with the timing guesses, I'm hoping to have significant progress by the end of the month, enough to finally make that relase.

lets just say it's a whole lot more tedious and time consuming to make HTML formaters for all existing event command than I originally assumed
« Last Edit: June 17, 2013, 03:08:11 AM by Ryex »
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Offline Eclipse

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Re: The Event Editor you WISH you had.
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2013, 07:58:40 AM »
Progress is progress my man.  The boring dirty work may not be glamorous or even interesting, but alas it needs to get done sooner or later.
Good software is more of a process of incrementalism than anything IMO.

Keep it up!

Offline Ryex

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Re: The Event Editor you WISH you had.
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2013, 09:10:49 AM »
There is a file for the event editor and all it does in turn event code into HTML to be easily displayed in the event editor.

only 10 of the 104 commands I know to exists (I keep finding more undocumented event codes) are implemented the rest just have "pass" lines as place holders. this file is 2187 lines long.
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Offline Ryex

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Re: The Event Editor you WISH you had.
« Reply #12 on: July 01, 2013, 04:05:22 AM »
Well, lets just say that I've redesigned how this dam event list was implemented 5 times now. I keep discovering some REALLY stupid shit Enterbrain did when making it. it's now clear sa day that the RTP scripts were written to accommodate the editor NOT the other way around. it was literally designed so that every visible line in the editor was a individual entry in the page list, even the blank ones. and a good portion of the command code serve no purpose other than to display in that list.

But behold, I present to you a prototype event list that displays the command in a new readable and hopefully more meaningful syntax!
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Offline Eclipse

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Re: The Event Editor you WISH you had.
« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2013, 02:25:42 AM »
Wow, that all looks great!  Very nicely done, this will make importing/exporting/sharing code a cinch.

What's the progress with the rest of the editor?  I'm wondering how the database aspect of the whole thing is looking.

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Re: The Event Editor you WISH you had.
« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2013, 03:40:10 AM »
And now I present a Protype layout of the rest of the event editor.
Please not that nothing is quite the right size yet and the layout of individual sections will change
The red box is where a scroll-able categorized and searchable list of event commands will go
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Re: The Event Editor you WISH you had.
« Reply #15 on: July 19, 2013, 08:58:27 AM »
a more structured layout that should be clear
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Re: The Event Editor you WISH you had.
« Reply #16 on: August 01, 2013, 12:14:49 AM »
one thing i would suggest is maybe putting the conditions somewhere on the event page as well, where they currently are someone who doesn't know that conditions are set for each page might mistake them for conditions of the event itself and not for each page, i would probably make a new option on the left called Conditions or soemthing

i'm liking the idea to import and export event pages, can go well in making event templates and storing them in a templates folder rather than having a template event off screen and copying that all the time

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Offline Eclipse

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Re: The Event Editor you WISH you had.
« Reply #17 on: August 18, 2013, 07:02:44 PM »
Haven't heard anything here in a few weeks. I was getting a bit worried.  Done anything else super cool Ryex?

Offline Ryex

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Re: The Event Editor you WISH you had.
« Reply #18 on: August 18, 2013, 07:39:55 PM »
sorry, the last few weeks were hectic. Finishing up at work, my grandma came to visit and then got hospitalized. I'm actually just getting back to work on on it.

I'm agonizingly close to done.

the todo list:

  • Finish event editor
    • list of event commands
    • tie interface to data
  • Finish map editor
    • implement a tile selection
    • implement tools to draw
  • Finish Database
    • animation control
    • tie back to data

but at the same time that first major part meas writing repetitive code for 150 different event codes so it's slow going. I REALLY wish I wasn't doing this alone
« Last Edit: August 18, 2013, 07:41:12 PM by Ryex »
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Offline Eclipse

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Re: The Event Editor you WISH you had.
« Reply #19 on: August 20, 2013, 03:29:12 AM »
Sorry to hear that Ryex.  I know it can be tough, I was actually in a similar situation not too long ago, I know how hard it can be.  Hope your grandma is OK.

More on topic, it actually looks like you've made a good deal of progress, great job!

I can offer my assistance with finishing up some menial tasks if you need some help.  I don't have much python experience, but I know code, so I can figure out menial repetitive tasks... I wanna help this process along if I can, and we all know it will turn out better in the end with you doing the heavy lifting on this one anyway :P My time is limited due having a full time job, but I'm willing to help how I can.  Shoot me a PM if you need me.

In any event keep up the excellent work!

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Re: The Event Editor you WISH you had.
« Reply #20 on: August 25, 2013, 09:53:29 PM »
I know that KK20 has joined the team, but if you guys still need some more coders, if the coding is in ruby or java, i can lend a hand if you want. (I know java, and i'm ok at ruby, but i have no knowledge of c or c++)

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Re: The Event Editor you WISH you had.
« Reply #21 on: August 25, 2013, 10:47:14 PM »
Well, Ryex has to decide on that since he's the one who needs some help. And he actually needs a Python coder.
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Re: The Event Editor you WISH you had.
« Reply #22 on: August 26, 2013, 02:04:03 AM »
Well, Ryex has to decide on that since he's the one who needs some help. And he actually needs a Python coder.
Yeah, while i know some python, its not a huge about, but it's enough to get by. i'm not sure how much help i could be with it, but i would still like to try. Anyway, should pm him?

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Re: The Event Editor you WISH you had.
« Reply #23 on: August 26, 2013, 08:52:04 AM »
Nah, he'll respond here I'm sure.
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Re: The Event Editor you WISH you had.
« Reply #24 on: August 26, 2013, 09:07:47 PM »
Nah, he'll respond here I'm sure.

Well that's good. Then i can post my 'never mind' here then. lol. i just went through and tried to 'test' how much python i still remember, and i found out the hard way that i don't remember enough for pretty much anything. >.<

Ah, well, i guess i'll just stick to the RTP, though i have to say, the fact that i am starting to seem more and more like the only one working on it... yeah, kind of sad. T_T (I think people are still working on the sound, and i know 1 person made a tileset that they haven't added yet, but apart from that, yeah, i'm the only person that has actually added any visual graphics in... >.> a really long time)

« Last Edit: August 26, 2013, 09:09:34 PM by Trinitygamer »

Offline Ryex

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Re: The Event Editor you WISH you had.
« Reply #25 on: August 26, 2013, 11:54:16 PM »
Fornow I still need to figure out how fast things can go with just me an KK20. if at a later date I need more help I'll tackle the problem then.
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Offline KK20

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Re: The Event Editor you WISH you had.
« Reply #26 on: August 27, 2013, 02:03:51 AM »
I've done like five (easy ones) so far. Ryex still needs to teach me more of SVN and how to test my results. °u°



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Re: The Event Editor you WISH you had.
« Reply #27 on: September 16, 2013, 05:22:51 AM »
Finished typing up all the 1XX commands and the easy one-liners (e.g. 'Game Over'). Currently working on making a test project.
Ryex, I've noticed that you put 'Enemy at Position [X]' rather than RMXP's '[1. Name]'. Are there certain limitations I'm not aware of?



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Offline Ryex

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Re: The Event Editor you WISH you had.
« Reply #28 on: September 16, 2013, 07:30:35 AM »
I was under the understanding that the enemy event command worked by knowing the enemi's position in a troop and thus didn't know anything about the enemy it self.

be sure to commit all your work to the svn. it would be a shame if your Computer crashed and we lost all your hard work.
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Re: The Event Editor you WISH you had.
« Reply #29 on: September 16, 2013, 10:46:04 PM »
So...does that mean there's no way to write the enemy's name at position x? Adding onto that, how about getting an event's and common event's name?
There might be more questions but I can't think of them at the moment. Also leaving the Set Move Route for last.

I didn't put much effort in formatting the messages yet since that can be left in the end (very haphazard use of colors, bold, and italics). I was originally going to commit as soon as I tested them out first.



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Offline Ryex

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Re: The Event Editor you WISH you had.
« Reply #30 on: September 17, 2013, 12:43:14 AM »
well considering that unless the event command is being called inside a battle you can't know what troop is there and thus can't know what enemy as at the specified position.

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Offline KK20

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Re: The Event Editor you WISH you had.
« Reply #31 on: September 20, 2013, 03:45:26 AM »
Oh, okay. I thought there was some kind of built-in check in the editor, particularly when the user is viewing the Troops tab, that would know the enemies and their positions. We'll just look back into it later.



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Offline G_G

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Re: The Event Editor you WISH you had.
« Reply #32 on: September 20, 2013, 04:52:59 AM »
I'm pretty sure that's how it is. Enemies are locked into their positions in troops. Maybe not?

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Offline Ryex

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Re: The Event Editor you WISH you had.
« Reply #33 on: September 20, 2013, 09:36:09 PM »
ya know, I should put a filter on the list of available event commands to limit them to the ones that actualy do anything in the current context. a map event for example shouldn't have access to the commands that effect battle.

or perhaps that would break things...
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Re: The Event Editor you WISH you had.
« Reply #34 on: September 21, 2013, 12:02:09 PM »
We can add that later. Focus on getting an alpha done first. This stuff goes into the beta.
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Offline KK20

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Re: The Event Editor you WISH you had.
« Reply #35 on: September 22, 2013, 05:03:13 AM »
Alright, I'll just keep using them placeholders then. There's always time to go back and fix things.

But I think I'm going to need some serious help with the Move Route command (when it's the last thing on my list).



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Re: The Event Editor you WISH you had.
« Reply #36 on: October 07, 2013, 05:16:09 PM »
Sooooo, estimated time for the first release. Anyone?  :poke:
   

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Re: The Event Editor you WISH you had.
« Reply #37 on: October 07, 2013, 10:00:11 PM »
This depends on Ryex. :/
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Offline KK20

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Re: The Event Editor you WISH you had.
« Reply #38 on: October 08, 2013, 06:08:53 AM »
Yeah, it's been fairly quiet actually. I've been busy with work and school these past weeks and haven't worked on the event commands since.



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Offline Ryex

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Re: The Event Editor you WISH you had.
« Reply #39 on: October 08, 2013, 06:29:46 AM »
sadly the same is true here. as easy as my classes are they assign a shit load of busy work. I don;t want to give up but I honestly don't have the time and it's starting to make me feel realy guity...
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Offline Eclipse

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Re: The Event Editor you WISH you had.
« Reply #40 on: October 09, 2013, 04:36:25 AM »
Perhaps it's time to bring in some more help?  People with more free time?

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Re: The Event Editor you WISH you had.
« Reply #41 on: October 09, 2013, 11:26:39 PM »
I'm not exactly opposed to the idea, but it's not exactly a simple proposition. I brought KK20 on to work on one very isolated system with hopes that by the time he's done with it he might be able and willing to help with the remaining parts. as this point joining the project means jumping headlong into a 80,000 line python code-base. if a professional was tasked with the same they would be given 2-3 weeks to familiarize themselves performing meanial maintenance tasks before being given any real work.

to be honest there are very few people I trust that have THAT much free time they would be wiling to dedicate for the foreseeable future.
and if any of you reading this DO have that kind of time then please, please tell me. It's a simple matter to prove you have the skill which honestly there isn't much required at this point just a lot of droll semi repetitive time devouring set-up to do.
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Offline KK20

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Re: The Event Editor you WISH you had.
« Reply #42 on: October 10, 2013, 04:22:57 AM »
I should be able to finish my part before the end of the year for sure. I'll manage to find some time to work on this again. I just needed a break from it to work on some of my other projects. My poor Advance Wars Engine was slowly gathering dust :<



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Offline Heretic86

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Re: The Event Editor you WISH you had.
« Reply #43 on: October 15, 2013, 04:04:36 AM »
Just a reply in general since I know that building stuff for the Event Interface is very difficult.

Some of the scripts that I wrote for RMXP typically require arguments to make work, and I know that at times, people forget how to use those arguments.  For example, turn toward event needs an arg to tell the script which event to turn to.  Simpler users may find it easier if the Scripters built those options to make their own windows appear so they could pop in all the required arguments. 

The other thing I was thinking of to take some of the load off of you guys would be to make a scrolling list of all installed scripts for access to those intended method calls.  It puts the workload on Scripters to make appropriate windows appear correctly when expandable scripts are listed in a Scripts Event type of thing.  Yes, that sounds quite confusing, but think about 3d Studio Max.  Their default stuff appears on the Right, as well as additional plugins.  So users have full access to any Plugins (or in our case, Scripts) without needing to constantly refer to the Scripts themselves for Script calls.

Put that kind of a workload on the people that build the Scripts / Plugins, but show available Scripts from a Scrolling Menu where double clicking on said menu gives a User the ability to call to the functionality of the Scripts through a Scripter designed interface.

Does that make any sort of sense?
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Re: The Event Editor you WISH you had.
« Reply #44 on: October 15, 2013, 06:04:15 AM »
While it makes sense, it'd be tad bit pointless and add more workload to the editor to scan through scripts for script calls. Ryex has already planned on creating plugin support, which scripters can create plugins, if they so choose, to incorporate their script into it. For example, for my Quest Log script, I could create event commands that do script calls which Add, Remove, Complete, or Fail quests. The plugins will have to be developed by scripters and done in python. So in a sense, there were already plans for what you suggested, however, it's not going to be enforced that a scripter needs to create a plugin with their script.

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Re: The Event Editor you WISH you had.
« Reply #45 on: October 23, 2013, 05:17:40 AM »
I see this is all quite a conundrum.  It's definitely a pain in the ass to get ramped up on a massive codebase like that.

All I can suggest, is to just do a little bit at a time.  An hour here, and hour there.  It'll add up over time, especially if the tasks are just repetitive busywork.

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Re: The Event Editor you WISH you had.
« Reply #46 on: November 25, 2013, 02:37:57 AM »
Whats up guys.  Hows it coming?

Offline KK20

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Re: The Event Editor you WISH you had.
« Reply #47 on: November 25, 2013, 04:14:15 AM »
Funny you should ask. I was up at my grandparent's over the weekend and decided to work a bit more on the event commands (no Internet is a wonderful thing). Finished making an RMXP project that tests every single command and converted it. Can say with confidence that the first tab of event commands are done (color/style formatting was rushed, but that can be changed easily). Edit: Conditional Branches are bugged up on some conditions. Ryex dun goofed :P

Also found out that there were no command templates for 'Comment's and added those in. Now I just need to know the best way to convert long integers into signed integers in Python. Gonna see what Google tells me.

EDIT: And this is what I found
Code: (Python) [Select]
if(arg[0] & 0x80000000):
    format['param'] = -0x100000000 + arg[0]
else:
    format['param'] = arg[0]
« Last Edit: November 25, 2013, 08:25:48 PM by KK20 »



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Offline Ryex

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Re: The Event Editor you WISH you had.
« Reply #48 on: November 26, 2013, 01:24:30 AM »
wait.. what? are you telling me that signed integers in RMXP are packed as unsigned longs? in event commands?

if you have a change commit everything you've done so far to the SVN repo so I can check out what you mean when you said I goofed up, test project included.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2013, 01:25:51 AM by Ryex »
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Offline KK20

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Re: The Event Editor you WISH you had.
« Reply #49 on: November 26, 2013, 02:10:23 AM »
I committed with the changes and added files. Took me two tries but I think I get it now :P

And yes, a -1 gave me 4294967295. I might be wrong by calling it a long int. But I do remember seeing some L's appended to the end of some of them.

EDIT: Yeah, using print on a parameter that should be -1 gave me 4294967295L.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2013, 02:17:32 AM by KK20 »



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Offline Ryex

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Re: The Event Editor you WISH you had.
« Reply #50 on: November 26, 2013, 03:33:32 AM »
ok, that's definitely a problem in how we encode the data. I don't have the time to look into it right now but I'll make a note.
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Offline KK20

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Re: The Event Editor you WISH you had.
« Reply #51 on: December 23, 2013, 08:26:37 AM »
Worked a bit while at the grandparents' house. Fixed up the conditional branches. Also, until you fix the "encoding" problem, I'm going to just leave the temporary fix in. Will be easy to remove them since CTRL + F for 0x will instantly take you to all of them.

About halfway through with the Page 3 commands. Also noticed that, because you have that HTML formatting, trying to show less than signs in the editor is impossible (ex. if Gold <= 9000 would only show if Gold 9000), so I just stuck a Kernel.escapeHTML in areas that could draw them.



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Offline Ryex

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Re: The Event Editor you WISH you had.
« Reply #52 on: December 23, 2013, 09:47:25 PM »
that's fine, though a simple html code could drop them in
Code: (html) [Select]
&lt; == <
&gt; == >
= == =
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Re: The Event Editor you WISH you had.
« Reply #53 on: December 24, 2013, 03:09:28 AM »
Right, I probably could have figured that one out from the print results. It's only the less than signs that were causing problems; greater than and equal signs are perfectly fine.

Code: [Select]
lol_dict = {0: '==', 1: '&lt;', 2: '&lt;=', 3: '>', 4: '>='}
This is where the OCD starts kicking in... :V:



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Offline Blizzard

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Re: The Event Editor you WISH you had.
« Reply #54 on: December 24, 2013, 08:43:59 AM »
This is where the OCD starts kicking in... :V:

LMAO, you're right. xD
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Offline KK20

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Re: The Event Editor you WISH you had.
« Reply #55 on: December 28, 2013, 12:35:31 AM »
I think Page 3 event commands are done. Now to do the dreaded Page 2.
Soooo many parameters~



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