Seeing The Matrix

[Blizzard]

EDIT: My suggestion: Tell her something about herself and ask her out. This is what I would say.

You silly girl, you. Honestly, from your pictures I kind of expected that kind of silly reaction. Which day works better for you? Tuesday or Friday?

Obviously this makes sense only if she's in the same city as you. And only if you want to.

[Subsonic_Noise]

Scrap what Blizzard said, girls dig honesty.

You silly girl, you. Honestly, some guy on the internet told me to ask you out, so I'll lower my standards for you. How about some furious anal sex?

[Blizzard]

Just because I gave him advice, it doesn't mean he isn't being honest following what he wants. Being honest isn't saying just everything to somebody else (which would be very stupid), it's telling them the things that matter. By your logic, if he followed your advice, he would have so say:

You silly girl, you. Honestly, some guy on the internet told me to tell ask you out, lower my standards for you and ask you about some furious anal sex.

[Subsonic_Noise]

You silly girl, you. Honestly, some guy on the internet told me to tell you some guy on the internet told me to ask you out, lower my standards for you and ask you about some furious anal sex.

[Spaceman McConaughey]

Fun fact: Those pickup lines do not work on nearly as much women in America as they do Croatia.

Sources: Personal experience.

[Blizzard]

Who said they work that much in Croatia? It always was and always will be a numbers game. On online sites the success rate varies from 10% to 90% depending on the day, there is no real indicator for it. Face-to-face direct pickup works initially 1 to 2 out of 3 (where initially means the first minute). What you do during the rest of the interaction is more important. There are no magic pickup lines, only stuff you can say to start an interaction.

@Sub: This is what he would have to say if he followed your advice. If he wanted to say what I said after you, yes, he would have to say what you posted the last. So confusing. #_#

EDIT:

And only if you want to.

Which makes it perfectly valid for him to actually say the initial line. If he wants it, he's being honest by saying what he wants.

EDIT:

Lol, gotta love this meta-debate about nothing. xD

[Spaceman McConaughey]

I was basing it off how you seem to get with a lot of women with those lines in Croatia, yet for some reason most women laugh at such things here.

And yes, I know all women in Croatia do not go for that stuff. I only know one Croatian person(you), so it's hard for me to make educated conclusions on these things. Honest mistake.

[G_G]

Blizzard, this thing with Sally didn't work. I already tried with her, which was one of the main reasons that led to my depression. She unintentionally led me to believe something that wasn't happening.

[Blizzard]

No big deal. There are millions of other women. One of them saying no shouldn't even bother you as the other 999999 still may say yes. If you talked to 10000 women in a short time and only 100 would be interested (where 1% is a horrible success rate, BTW), that's still 100 interested women. Imagine 100 women wanting you. See what I mean? The important is not how many women say no but how many say yes.

@Tuggernuts: Though, it's not the words, it's how you deliver them. For all I care, I can tell a girl that I'm a magical space bunny and she has to feed me chocolate and it will work, because of my posture, my voice tone and my eye contact. Depending on the intensity that I want to communicate, I turn my body towards her or to the side. Depending on the care/confidence level I want to demonstrate, I pierce her with my eyes or look around while I talk. And I always use a calm, slow and deep voice projection. Anything less than that is not acceptable.

Also, there are two kinds of laughs. One is when she laughs at you (very, very rare) and the other is when she can't believe what she's hearing. Obviously the latter is the good kind. I always look at it that if she laughs, you're in. You may have to back up what you said.

People are basically the same everywhere. The differences are really minor.

[G_G]

Meh. I think I'm done with relationships for awhile.

[Blizzard]

Who said anything about relationships?

[G_G]

No one. But I'm sure not really interested in just getting in someone's pants. I was just speaking in general and more or less, done with women for awhile.

[Subsonic_Noise]

But I'm sure not really interested in just getting in someone's pants.

This. So much this. Some people need to read this sentence over and over until they understand it.

[Blizzard]

You two are funny. You make the most natural thing there is sound like a crime.

[G_G]

._. I'm just not interested in sex. Thats not what I want from women. I know its natural and whatnot, but I honestly all I want from a girl is a decent, honest, relationship. If thats asking too much from life, well then I guess I'll live the rest of my life alone. It may sound stupid or whatever but thats how I honestly feel. Sure sex would be great, but when I do go out with a girl, having sex is the least of my worries.

[Blizzard]

If you want a relationship without sex, that's called a friendship, not a relationship. You can have that with any woman.

I don't understand why you think that being alone is a bad thing. Being lonely is (even though this can be classified as fearing of being alone), but being alone is not. If you are unhappy alone, you won't be happy in a relationship either, at least not beyond feeling good because of "being in love" for a few months until you realize nothing has actually changed. Of course, sex should not be your primary target, because you're not needy, but sex should be a normal and integral part of a relationship. A relationship without sex is not a healthy one.

[Subsonic_Noise]

I'm not making it sound like a crime, I am trying to get into your head that that's not in everyones interest. You want to get into girls pants as often and as fast as possible, go ahead, do that. But not everyone is like that. That's all I'm saying.

And in fact, yes, relationships without sex are possible. Rare, but possible. That again is not something in my interest, but you can't just say that it's not a relationship without sex.

[Spaceman McConaughey]

I am a firm believer that a friendship and a romantic relationship without sex are still two entirely different things.

[Blizzard]

On what do you base your belief?

@Sub: Thank you for making clear that I am not allowed to troll people and as soon as you perceive something to be serious, it totally must be serious.

Also you still make it sound like it's a bad thing:

You want to get into girls pants as often and as fast as possible, go ahead, do that. But not everyone is like that.

If that doesn't sound judgmental, then I'm Santa Claus.

[Spaceman McConaughey]

How about I ask you:
Why do you feel you're able to suddenly redefine a romantic relationship into something it is not, and has not been defined as?

[Subsonic_Noise]

It's always easy to say you're trolling afterwards. 
And by the way, now you explain to me how that sentence is judgmental in any way. You have admitted of doing it, you actually tell people about it continously.
It's meant as I said it there. You do what you want, but accept that other people think differently, and have the right to. I don't judge you for doing it that way, but if some people do not care for sex as much, let them be.

Since you're just gonna keep misunderstanding things on purpose, I'll leave this conversation now.

-sub out-

[Blizzard]

It's always easy to say you're trolling afterwards.  

You should know, you're a master at it.

And by the way, now you explain to me how that sentence is judgmental in any way. You have admitted of doing it, you actually tell people about it continously.

Yes, I do that. I never said that I don't, I'm not hiding anything here.
You said "not everybody is LIKE that", not "not everybody DOES that". You make an assumption of my character and/or my beliefs based on my actions without considering the possibility of the existence of a perspective that is unknown to you (if you're interested, though, read on, it's contained in my reply to Tuggernuts). I'm not sure if that is classified under judgmental or prejudice, but it doesn't really matter to me as it's your problem. While being tolerant of somebody else, you can still be judgmental. I never thought of this that way. I guess you really learn something new every day.

It's meant as I said it there. You do what you want, but accept that other people think differently, and have the right to. I don't judge you for doing it that way, but if some people do not care for sex as much, let them be.

That's not what you said earlier. I'll quote you one more time, maybe you just mistyped it the first time.

You want to get into girls pants as often and as fast as possible, go ahead, do that. But not everyone is like that.

From your statement here I read that you are making a judgment about what I want or don't want (you said "You want to...", not "If you want to..."). Not that it is untrue, but it's rather incomplete. More correct would be: "I want to get into girls' pants as fast as possible and have a good time with them." I don't really care about the "often" part.
The second part makes yet another assumption that I am "like that" as if sexual desire was a character trait. I seriously laughed when I read that the first time.

I'm sorry if I misunderstood what you wanted to say, but you really should have been more clear on that.

Since you're just gonna keep misunderstanding things on purpose, I'll leave this conversation now.

You are solely responsible for your part of the conversation. If I didn't understand something, then it's obviously your own fault for not communicating it properly. I can't read minds after all.

@Tuggernuts: I asked you nicely a simple question. If you are unable to answer it, that's too bad.

the perspective I told Sub about: ShowHide

Most people today put waaaaaaay too much value into sex. They all see sex as this big thing and big something that is so special while it's the most natural thing in the world. Did you know that the sexual urge is the second strongest, next to hunger and thirst (if you count those as one)? Do you look at food or water like something OMG SO SPECIAL I HAVE TO PUT SO MUCH VALUE INTO IT? For god's sake, sex is next to eating!
This is what is wrong in today's society. Everybody is obsessed with sex. I mean, just look at this conversation. If the world was normal, we wouldn't even have to discuss something like this. Debating about this, me having to tell you how normal sex is supposed to be? Really???

And because of that fact, the media has it so easy to manipulate everybody using sex. I mean, beer commercials with half-naked girls running around are just screaming out with subliminal messages that you will get sex if you drink their beer (as if sex was the ulterior goal). I can understand people who want to savor sex for later and so on (been there, done that), but in my opinion their values are not really in the right places. Their being together is what is important, sex isn't. For them sex has more importance than their relationship. If they feel horny, they should have sex together (and remember kids, always use condoms!). They should treasure their time together and feel good together. Instead they are making a big deal out of sex as if it's something holy and sacred. Instead of doing what nature intended them to do, they both have to resort masturbation.
I totally understand that sex bears nature-wise a higher risk for women (aka pregnancy) and that they tend to avoid having sex with low quality partners (that's why I love them ), but it's still something that should be considered completely natural. Women have sex and they have a lot of sex, but they are careful with the selection of their sex partners where men usually would hump anything that moves on two legs and look like a woman. Still, both genders are still way too obsessed with it. From my experience people who put too much value into sex (such as assholes doing about anything to get into a woman's pants just for the sex) and people who avoid sex completely (caused by putting too much value into sex) are damaged psychologically. And you can easily notice that in their persona. Every "normal" girl that I have met has no (or only little) problems with sex.

Just because a woman feels like shit after being used by some guy doesn't make sex the reason. The guy's obviously an idiot and can't treasure the being together with a woman as he should. Instead the only thing he's after is to get his dick wet and he'd even fake emotions and tells her god-knows-what lies to the woman just to get in her pants. This is wrong and obviously a clear obsession with sex being this big thing that he has to get from every girl or whatever. It's not.

As for your question specifically, I can't answer that, because you are basing it on an unfounded assumption. How would you know how I "feel"? Are you me? No. Instead you are simply making assumptions without any base except for my statements. And instead of investigating deeper what I am actually saying (since I didn't care to be too clear on the subject as I expected it to be dismissed, I admit that), you are just blatantly saying more or less random stuff. I hate to break it to you, but that's called prejudice.

Instead, let's wrap this up: Tell me that you honestly believe that a companionship without any sexuality whatsoever (no sex, no kissing, no hand holding, not even touching) can be called an "intimate relationship" aka "romantic relationship" and is not a "platonic relationship" aka "friendship" and I will shut up this instant. (I wish I could tell you to look me in the eye and say that, but that's the Internet.) Obviously "childish relationships" don't count. Those have nothing to do with relationships, that's just kids being kids and learning about the world.

EDIT: God, this perspective text is gold. I'm keeping that for future reference.

EDIT: @Tuggernuts: Here are a few links if you want to inform yourself before making up your mind:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intimate_relationship
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpersonal_relationship
I believe they are fairly accurate.

EDIT: I just wanted to add that I don't blame any of you for not knowing. You just had no way of knowing. I didn't know either. I used to be clueless as well.

[ForeverZer0]

That is one point of view, but I think the reason so many people regard sex as something a little more menial than eating and drinking is that most religions regard it as sacred, which even if they don't have faith, still is a driving influence of a society's moral standard. What you said may very well hold true for animals, but I personally think a little higher of human beings than the squirrels in my backyard having sex. Animals also kill each other and fight to decide who the leader is, it is the natural order of things, but that does not mean it is morally acceptable for humans to use that behavior to see who the next president is gonna be.

[Blizzard]

Note in advance: I didn't use "fucking" to express an emotion but the intensity of my statement. Don't misread it. Imagine me talking with a calm voice. Except for the caps parts where you can imagine me shout it out loud, still unemotional, though.


In reality people do the same. Whether people are glorified animals or actually a bit more than animals is hard to tell. I haven't met many people who actually acted like they have their own will. All I have seen a people driven by emotions, fears and/or instincts with the delusion that they chose to do that or that they had actual reasons not to do something. Don't believe me? Here's an example:

Can you right now consciously walk out the door, go up to a woman and tell her you want to have sex with her? (Just one of the most banal things to do that come to my mind right now.) No, because all your emotions will tell you not to and you will listen. You can give me any (and I mean literally any) bullshit excuse here why you won't do it and I will tell you it's all bullshit, because you're just afraid of what might happen (whether good or bad, I can almost 100% promise that you won't get slapped). Your emotions don't allow you to make that choice. Or better said, your emotions are trying their very best to prevent you from making that choice. Your logical mind will follow and will make up any kind of stupid excuse not to do it. Heck, you will even tell yourself shit like she's too tall or it's too hot/cold or her nose is too long or you don't like her shoes. I can list you a million excuses right here. And if you act against your emotions anyway, you will feel bad in form of feeling nervous, shaking, etc. and all that other shit. How much choice do you really have?
It all actually makes sense. You probably heard those wise sayings a million times, but the next time you hear one of them, consider what you are being told. e.g. "Courage is not the same as not feeling fear, it is feeling the fear and acting anyway." This can be applied to the example I just gave you. Right there. Or anything else related to conquering one's fears. Act against your emotions, because you DO have a choice. (winkio would agree with me on the whole choice thingy, we talked about that a few months back. IDK about the rest, never bothered to ask him.)

One thing that nobody here understands is that my view used to be like yours. My current perspective has evolved from that mixed with lots of experience over the years. And now I know that I used to be so fucking wrong. I don't know if I am right at this moment, but I believe in it and I am ready to stand up for what I believe in. It doesn't mean that you are wrong (or I used to be wrong). It just means that I really believe that you guys are so fucking wrong. I believe that people are obsessed with "controlling" the physical and materialism that they don't realize it's our minds that makes us human and tell us apart from animals. Sexuality is physical, not mental, the pure act of sex is physical. There is nothing transcendental in sex. It's just sex, it's an act of reproduction and for our species (and dolphins as well!) an act of giving and receiving pleasure. It is our gift to be conscious and to choose beyond our emotions (what we subconsciously learned through our life). Though, we probably shouldn't ever choose beyond our instincts (what is hardwired into our genes, which I consider hunger, sexuality, etc.), because this brings really intense consequences with it. Don't believe me? Don't eat anything for 15 days. Go ahead, do it. Go against your "instinct" and see what happens. Analogically do what I just told you before, go up to a woman and tell her that. What happened? Nothing. She will probably say that she has a boyfriend (to get rid of you, not necessarily that it's true), that she first has to get to know someone a bit, she usually doesn't do that so quickly (yeah, right), etc. But I can guarantee you that nothing bad will happen if you just act politely (e.g. you say "Excuse me. I saw you from over there and I thought you were really attractive. I wanted to ask you if you would sleep with me.") BTW, chances are that she will agree.
In any case, our subconscious is a useful tool for survival, e.g. so we avoid fire after the first time we got burnt. But we aren't animals, survival isn't really an issue anymore. Instead our subconscious has been filled up bullshit. This is something called social conditioning, look it up. It's a very interesting topic in general. Social conditioning (or programming or "bad" programming how I like to call it) is what makes us do most the things we do. It's the thing that tells us sex is a bad thing, that sex is a shameful act and all that other crap. In a secluded society (like some tribes in Africa), sex is nothing special. People run around naked, because it's not a big deal. Sexuality is normal, nothing special. We are the ones that are messed up, not them. >.<
I'm not saying everything in social conditioning is bad, but do you consider not being able to go outside and seriously ask a woman politely for sex just for the fuck of it is a good thing? Sorry, but I don't believe that. It. Is. Just. Sex. Nothing more, nothing less. It's an urge, driven by an instinct even weaker than hunger.

What also tells us apart from animals are that we are not beasts. Also, there is a difference between moral and ethic. And if you take sex out of the equation, suddenly things become less complicated by one whole magnitude (maybe even by several, IDK). You can have a lot of sex and still be ethical about it.
Sex is always valued as something important, that's why people get hurt. Sex doesn't hurt people, other people do (except for the really kinky ones := ). The moral problem is mostly related to pregnancy. If somebody doesn't watch out and makes a woman pregnant, it's immoral to leave her all by herself, because it's a bad thing to do. People then accuse sex of being the problem instead of the person itself. Just because one idiot isn't able to fucking stand up to his mistake and take responsibility, the whole society starts viewing sex as something bad and shameful. One would think that as the times change and sex now becomes more acceptable, things and the view on sex would change. Instead things just got worse and everybody is more obsessed with sex than ever. IDK how the commercial breaks are in the US, but here the commercial breaks are a bit above 5 minutes every half hour. The chance of a commercial break going by without seeing at least 3 commercials involving sex in some form (whether it's a beer commercial, a commercial for some stupid anti-aging cream, girls running around in bikinis showing off how fun, sexy and tasty the new Fanta is or whatever crap the ad managers can come up with) is absolutely zero. Men go out and see a gorgeous woman. What happens? THEY FUCKING HIDE (sometimes literally). Why? Because they have been socially conditioned to believe that beautiful women are confident and powerful and whatever crap you can come up with. And they are afraid that they aren't good enough for her. FOR CHRIST'S SAKE, IT'S JUST A WOMAN. She also eats, sleeps and takes a shit, just like you and me. Worse, the pretty ones are the most insecure, because their whole life people have been telling them how pretty they are. They never ever came to a conclusion about themselves, their whole confidence is based on how other people tell them how pretty they are (BTW, try taking that away and watch them go nuts D: ). It's a truly astonishing and saddening sight how much damage society can do to the mind of an individual. It's probably on par with brainwashing. Basically: pretty woman = sex = something valuable = fear of losing something valuable = feeling lots of crappy emotions for not being able to talk to her, etc. Sex is regarded as something that is very valuable which is just plain wrong. Look at animals. They have no problems with sex. Are they happy? Probably yes, because we people are fucking over-complicating everything unnecessarily. It's just sex.
Please tell me that all these things I am telling you are not true and that I am making all of this shit up.

You are still so fucking wrong. I've been there, I should know.

EDIT: God, I love this shit. Maybe I'll learn something new or come to a new conclusion.
I'll move this topic to ID now, because it's becoming kind of crowded here. o.o

EDIT: I've worked hard to develop a view so different from everybody else. It's not what I intended to, it just came to happen while I was searching for some truth in the world and in life. I can see the fucking matrix.

[G_G]

I haven't seen long posts by Blizzard this long in awhile. Regardless, I don't see how not including sex in a relationship makes it a friendship. Kelsey and I were just fine. We did things normal friends didn't do but we didn't have sex at any point in the relationship. It was definitely more than a friendship.

EDIT: You guys totally derailed my topic. >.<

[brendan_pr]

Don't worry about having sex, stay busy doing the things you enjoy. It took me until I was 22 years old to find my first meaningful relationship and if anything I consider myself lucky to have waited to have sex with someone that I have now stuck with for over a year. There is absolutely nothing wrong with waiting that long and you aren't going to feel bad about it trust me


That said there is also nothing wrong with not waiting that long, either. People are different. I for one am an introvert and enjoy being by myself, so it worked out fine





It's more to do with being young. If you are still young and you have life to experience. You don't need to settle down and find someone right away, you have your whole life. When you are young you aren't ready for a "relationship" and thus you won't even know were to begin

[Blizzard]

As I said, I can understand your mindset about that. And if you want to give it value in such a way to share only it with someone that you really like, that's fine. But this is a difficult path that doesn't have to be difficult. You are basically making things hard on yourself without a good reason. At least that is how I see things. Being an introvert may be a predisposition, but it's your choice to leave things as they are. I used to be an introvert and I wasn't happy. And when I became the polar opposite of my former self, I basically facepalmed myself for being an idiot before and not doing it earlier. I am glad that I am where I am now, because it was my choice. Same with you. If you really wanted to put off sex for a specific reason and things worked out, I can't tell you how incredibly lucky you are, because that thing works out in maybe 1 in a 1000. I've learned in life that nothing good in life just comes to you. Few are lucky to have that happen to them. For the most of us we have to get our asses up and do something about it. That's how I live my life. I do what I believe in, because this is what I want to do.
If you are happy, that's almost the only thing that matters. Don't change a thing.

As for myself, I don't have any problems related to relationships. But currently relationships aren't something that I want in my life. Let's say that I'm browsing around to see what kind of girls there are, being adventurous, doing crazy stuff, spending amazing moments with them. Though, obviously at one point I may just pick one and see how things work out. If that is what I want, that is what I will do.
You'd be surprised how much harder girls try to get you into a relationship once you tell them you don't want one. >.<

I haven't seen long posts by Blizzard this long in awhile. Regardless, I don't see how not including sex in a relationship makes it a friendship. Kelsey and I were just fine. We did things normal friends didn't do but we didn't have sex at any point in the relationship. It was definitely more than a friendship.

You are totally proving my point. You did sexual stuff and it was not a friendship anymore. Touching and kissing is sexual stuff, it doesn't have to be straight out sex to be sexual. My statement about relationships obviously work both ways.
IMO sex buddies is a twisted concept that can't work in the long run in our society. One of the sides (usually the female) will falter. Only if you had two actually separate individuals to see sex as what it actually is, then this might work. But that would still require them to start resisting the emotions after a while.
In any case, as a romantic relationship cannot exist properly without sexual content, a platonic relationship cannot exist properly with it.

[Ryex]

You are proving my point. You did sexual stuff and it was not a friendship anymore. Touching and kissing is sexual stuff, it doesn't have to be straight out sex to be sexual.

this misunderstanding is what prompted the entire debate. as a 3d party I can look in as immediately see that Blizz was misinterpreting what everyone else was calling sex.

I'm not sure about else where Blizz but when we say sex we are ALWAYS referring to intercourse.  holding hands kissing and general intimate relations are not considered sex, they are... well for lack of a better term 'intimate relations with a sexual connotation'.

from my point of view 'intimate relations with a sexual connotation' are a necessity for a romantic and intimate relationship and are what separate it form a close friendship.  sex/intercourse however is an option next step if the relationship wants to become more serious.

[Blizzard]

Sex is so much more than just intercourse.
These things have all faded for me into one big clump. There either is sex or there is no sex. Attraction, touching, kissing, smelling, intercourse, all that is part of it. I'm really sorry for the big misunderstanding. At least I've put some of my thoughts into a line and I hope that you all can profit from reading the stuff that my brain shits out from time to time.

[G_G]

Thats American society for you Blizz.

[Blizzard]

Not just American. :/
I was mostly referencing myself to the saying "sex sells" where sex is a general term, not just two people having intercourse. I thought that was clear during the whole conversation. "sex sells" can mean that you have a bunch of girls in skimpy outfits jumping around a commercial. There is no sex in there, but it's still sexual.

@Ryex: I disagree about the part using sex to take the relationship to a higher level. This is yet again putting a high value on sex as if it will be life changing, OMG.
Sex/Intercourse should exist before the relationship. If there is not proper mutual sexual attraction, the relationship is doomed to fail one way or another. Of course, sex doesn't have to be at the very beginning of EVERY relationship, but things become easier and simpler the earlier the first intercourse with a partner has been put out of the way. Have you noticed how much closer a couple gets and understand each other once they had sex? It's an illusion. They believe that now that they've seen each other naked and had intercourse, things are suddenly different. They're not, sex/intercourse is meaningless. People give it the meaning and they are usually doing it wrong by making it this big thing. :/ Men complain all the time how women can't separate sex and emotions while they keep doing the same. Sex != emotions.

[ForeverZer0]

* In regards to Blizz's last post *

It is not true and you are making all of that shit up.

The majority of that was way off even what I anybody is talking about.  I don't think the consensus is that sex is shameful or bad. African tribes can run around with their dicks swinging all they want, the whole point there is that its not considered sexual, not a matter of not placing value on the act of sex. They are completely different things, but in the end they are really just cultural differences. You claim that those who do view sex as something sacred as nothing more than delusioned by society/media inflluences. Honestly, I think your viewpoint is exactly that. Modern society has done nothing more delude the meaning of sex to the point is is now just a way of advertising. Your example of the half-dressed woman in beer commercials is a prime example of that. Sex has become commonplace, not to be held sacred, and this is exactly how you seem to be viewing it. I see your viewpoint as the common conditioned one that has been "programmed".  I fit wasn't, you would not see a fraction of what you down. A few decades ago, you wouldn't see a woman's leg on TV. Now, that is a bit extreme, I admit, but it goes to show the dramatic shift of what is socially acceptable.

As for your animalistic comparison, animals have sex as a means of reproduction. Obviously humans do as well, but lets be real here, you aren't picking a girl up in a club because you want to reproduce (at least I hope not, lol). You are doing it for pleasure, whether that be physical feeling, or the for the sake of mental conquest, it is still about pleasure. Animals do not do this. They have sex for reproduction only, and in many cases, it is not an enjoyable experience. They do it for that purpose only, so if you truly want to make that parallel and mean it, you better stop having sex unless you are trying to have some little Blizzards running around.

Personally, I choose to only have sex with girls that I am in a romantic relationship with. When I was a teenager, I had my share of running around chasing girls and having sex just for the sake of having sex. But as I got a bit older, I kinda realized that there is a deeper meaning to sex. Its the difference of having sex with a random girl you meet, and having sex for the first time with a girl you truly feel strongly for. There is no comparison. After sex with the random, you feel sexually satisfied, but place no meaningful value on it.  After sex with the girl you are romantically involved with, you are practically giddy afterwards, and you feel as if you have a new connection with that person. And you are right, this is how people get hurt, because now you are tied emotionally, deeper than you were before with that person. The problem is when the other person may not have felt that.

I'll respond more later, I have to go to the store at the moment, but that's the main gist.

[Blizzard]

Let me elaborate. I don't think I was clear enough with the sex in media thing. The paradox of sexual content in a beer commercial is that sex is not becoming something widely accepted, it is rather the fact it is presented in a way as if it was something of value, something that you want to have. This added presence of sex in media does not have the effect of making it appear more normal than it used to be, it makes it appear to be something you are not worth having. This puts a high perceived value on sex, much higher than yourself. This is the core problem as it creates insecurities and complexes of all kinds. I had no idea how harmful TV was to the subconscious in longterm until I realized the damage it did to me over the years. I used to watch a lot of TV while I was a kid and partially during my teenager years. I'm so glad that I cleaned up probably 95% of the crap.

Of course, I mentioned the pleasure part already (and that dolphins are the only other species on the planet that have intercourse for pleasure). And I'll keep doing it for pleasure. I don't see anything wrong with that. It's not like I go around purposely hurting women emotionally because of some sick mysogynistic tendencies. I give pleasure and I receive pleasure. Heck, I even tell most of them that she shouldn't expect a relationship with me even before sex.
You know, I stopped caring about the mental conquest part some time ago. A very good argument that you brought it up, tough. That bit of ego that I used to have was keeping me down and preventing me from going beyond limits that I didn't even know I could go beyond. It's funny, when you do something for the wrong reasons, you can't really make too much progress or the results are not what you expect. It's like the foundation is corrupted. Even if only part of your reason is something that you don't really want, it ends up slowing you down significantly. Only when your reason is "pure" and free of bullshit, when it's something you want, because you want it, not because some complex of you drives you to it, only then you can go beyond the "normal", only then you can go beyond what others perceive as possible.
Just as clarification: I look at the "ego" as a self-image that we would like to be and that we make ourselves believe that we are, even though deep down we know it's not true. It's probably the biggest piece of bullshit inside of us. That's why we avoid having our egos hurt. We don't want to do some stuff that may show us that our ego is wrong. And for that we make up the silliest and most irrational excuses. Once you take the ego out of the equation, things change drastically. But obviously that can't be done all at once, it has to be done bit by bit over time.

Of course nothing can beat an orgasm mixed with emotions. That's probably the top, especially if you can chain 3 or 4 in a row (for yourself mind you, where orgasm != ejaculation). Heck, I even dare to say that emotional sex compared to casual sex is like casual sex compared to masturbation: usually the former is the better.
I still believe that it's not the sex that makes me want to be with a girl in an actual relationship. The most important thing for you is that you have tried both and that you know which of these things you really want. As for me, for now I am just screwing around and I'm fine with it. Some day I might settle down if my outlook on life changes.

[Spaceman McConaughey]

*removed*

It's really not worth it, meh.

[Fenriswolf]

I love how you guys manage to turn an ordinary topic like this into such a wonderful conversation so smoothly.

[G_G]

Split topic since Fenris has a good point. The origins of this topic was not to discuss about relationships. It was just something to talk about, referring to the situation.

[winkio]

Just because nobody has mentioned it:

STDs

I mean, the only known cure for AIDS is injecting a transfusion of pure cash ($180,000) into the bloodstream.  That's like three years salary for an engineer!

Spoiler: ShowHide

serious about the STDs, cure for AIDS is a joke from south park

[Blizzard]

That's why I said to always use condoms. xD

[winkio]

That doesn't protect from everything though.  You can still get many STDs while wearing a condom, but the main one it protects against is AIDS.

[Blizzard]

True.

[Spaceman McConaughey]

So, judging by the evidence brought forth, Blizzard is infested with diseases. Ew.

[winkio]

possibly.  But then again, so are many people that are only sexually active with a single partner.  In my mind, the possibility of contracting diseases isn't as large a deterrent as the possibility of spreading them to others.

[Spaceman McConaughey]

But of course. I was also kidding, too.

[winkio]

That's not a nice thing to be kidding about.

[Spaceman McConaughey]

I'm sorry. You may proceed to smack my wrist with a ruler.