SPLIT OFF: Love, and shit like that.

Started by Blizzard, January 05, 2012, 10:40:48 am

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Blizzard

Quote from: SBR* on January 05, 2012, 07:40:35 am
I do highly disagree with that. IMO, you shouldn't 'steal' a girlfriend.


It's a matter of perspective. If she really liked her current boyfriend, she wouldn't leave her boyfriend for somebody else. Women jump from boyfriend to boyfriend all the time.
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Quote from: winkioI do not speak to bricks, either as individuals or in wall form.

Quote from: Barney StinsonWhen I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

Subsonic_Noise

I'd say that for me, a woman that does that doesn't really know what she wants usually, or gets in relationships with guys she doesn't really seem to know beforehand... if she did, she would have noticed before that she doesn't really like him. One way or the other, I wouldn't trust a girl like that.

Subsonic_Noise

I think I should note here that the things blizzard says are based on his experiences, meaning they are not universal. While they might be good at times, you shouldn
t just follow them blindly.

No offense to you blizz, I just see people blindly believing everything you say and when it comes to things like this, that can be dangerous. :P

SBR*

It also depends on the amount of effort you put into it. If you're trying to seduce her for ages and ages, she might eventually give up her current boyfriend, but if she leaves that boyfriend for you after even the smallest amount of hinting you did, well, then she was probably trying to make you jealous, so then I guess it's ok. BTW, I've never had a relationship, but I'm basing this on my knowledge of the human kind.

Blizzard

Quote from: Subsonic_Noise on January 05, 2012, 11:14:16 am
I'd say that for me, a woman that does that doesn't really know what she wants usually, or gets in relationships with guys she doesn't really seem to know beforehand... if she did, she would have noticed before that she doesn't really like him. One way or the other, I wouldn't trust a girl like that.


Nah, women have a good instinct for that (it's part of their nature). They almost always jump to a better guy, they know exactly what they are doing.
And you are right not to trust a girl like that, though, that isn't universal either. There are women who are in relationships for long times before they make a jump like that. These women are totally decent girls and all, but they will still submit to their emotions if you know how to work them. I have yet to confirm this, but it indicates that women a much bigger cheaters than men, they just hide it better. I am not yet confident enough in this belief, but all evidence points towards it. Maybe I'm just a hopeless romantic that refuses to believe that women are worse than men.

Quote from: Subsonic_Noise on January 05, 2012, 12:45:13 pm
I think I should note here that the things blizzard says are based on his experiences, meaning they are not universal. While they might be good at times, you shouldn
t just follow them blindly.

No offense to you blizz, I just see people blindly believing everything you say and when it comes to things like this, that can be dangerous. :P


No problem. I'd rather have my beliefs challenged than blindly followed by a bunch of brainless idiots. #_# That way I might learn something new. Experience has taught me these things, but that doesn't mean they are completely correct or accurate. They can still be fine-tuned. Also, these are generalizations. They don't apply to every single woman out there, they apply to the majority. There always are and always will be exceptions to the rule. My goal is to find generalizations that are accurate enough so that they can have practical appliance.
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Quote from: winkioI do not speak to bricks, either as individuals or in wall form.

Quote from: Barney StinsonWhen I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

SBR*

I'm sorry, but are you being sexist right now? You're making it seem like it's normal if a girl jumps from relation to relation all the time, while I think it's actually the opposite.
Quote from: BlizzardThese women are totally decent girls and all, but they will still submit to their emotions if you know how to work them.

That's just totally sexist.

winkio

talking about differences in relationships is not sexist.  Males and females are both biologically and socially different in mating patterns, no matter what species of mammal you deal with.  Sexism is discriminating based on gender in the workplace, public services, government, and the rest of society.

SBR*

Quote from: winkio on January 05, 2012, 03:50:54 pm
talking about differences in relationships is not sexist.  Males and females are both biologically and socially different in mating patterns, no matter what species of mammal you deal with.  Sexism is discriminating based on gender in the workplace, public services, government, and the rest of society.


Hmm, you're right :).

Blizzard

What winkio said.

As for your original question:

Quote from: SBR* on January 05, 2012, 03:35:25 pm
You're making it seem like it's normal if a girl jumps from relation to relation all the time, while I think it's actually the opposite.


No, not all the time. As I said, a girl could be a few years in a relationship and then jump to the next one when something better comes along.
I don't judge them for that, it's just the way they are. That's what experience has shown me and I accept it the way it is. Heck, it often even works to my advantage. :V:
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Quote from: winkioI do not speak to bricks, either as individuals or in wall form.

Quote from: Barney StinsonWhen I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

Subsonic_Noise

Quote from: SBR* on January 05, 2012, 03:35:25 pm
Quote from: BlizzardThese women are totally decent girls and all, but they will still submit to their emotions if you know how to work them.

That's just totally sexy.

Well, it *is* a generalisation, as Blizzard said. Based on his experiences. He's not saying it's like that for all women. Which it luckily isn't. :P

Quote from: Blizzard on January 05, 2012, 03:13:54 pm
Quote from: Subsonic_Noise on January 05, 2012, 11:14:16 am
I'd say that for me, a woman that does that doesn't really know what she wants usually, or gets in relationships with guys she doesn't really seem to know beforehand... if she did, she would have noticed before that she doesn't really like him. One way or the other, I wouldn't trust a girl like that.


Nah, women have a good instinct for that (it's part of their nature). They almost always jump to a better guy, they know exactly what they are doing.
And you are right not to trust a girl like that, though, that isn't universal either. There are women who are in relationships for long times before they make a jump like that. These women are totally decent girls and all, but they will still submit to their emotions if you know how to work them. I have yet to confirm this, but it indicates that women a much bigger cheaters than men, they just hide it better. I am not yet confident enough in this belief, but all evidence points towards it. Maybe I'm just a hopeless romantic that refuses to believe that women are worse than men.


I'm not in a position to compare, but I had quite a few girls attempt to cheat on their boyfriends with me. Note the attempt. I didn't because I got style.

Quote from: Blizzard on January 05, 2012, 03:13:54 pm
Quote from: Subsonic_Noise on January 05, 2012, 12:45:13 pm
I think I should note here that the things blizzard says are based on his experiences, meaning they are not universal. While they might be good at times, you shouldn
t just follow them blindly.

No offense to you blizz, I just see people blindly believing everything you say and when it comes to things like this, that can be dangerous. :P


No problem. I'd rather have my beliefs challenged than blindly followed by a bunch of brainless idiots. #_# That way I might learn something new. Experience has taught me these things, but that doesn't mean they are completely correct or accurate. They can still be fine-tuned. Also, these are generalizations. They don't apply to every single woman out there, they apply to the majority. There always are and always will be exceptions to the rule. My goal is to find generalizations that are accurate enough so that they can have practical appliance.

Good we got that sorted out. I think we should put something like this in a stickied topic, because I see people just blindly following you all the time. :P

Blizzard

January 05, 2012, 04:59:15 pm #10 Last Edit: January 05, 2012, 05:00:32 pm by Blizzard
Quote from: Subsonic_Noise on January 05, 2012, 04:45:29 pm
I'm not in a position to compare, but I had quite a few girls attempt to cheat on their boyfriends with me. Note the attempt. I didn't because I got style.


I know what you mean. >.< It's a matter of choice really. I used to not want to steal away girlfriends when I was young, but the truth was that I felt inadequate and didn't want my fragile little ego to get hurt if she chose him over me after all. Basically for me it was just a big fat excuse covered in righteousness, what can I say. :/ I'm just happy that I see clearly now.
It's important to stick to your true principles, whatever they may be.

Quote from: Subsonic_Noise on January 05, 2012, 04:45:29 pm
Good we got that sorted out. I think we should put something like this in a stickied topic, because I see people just blindly following you all the time. :P


Not my fault that people can't think for themselves. xD But following isn't always a bad thing. If you are lost, then somebody leading you a bit is pretty much a life saver.

EDIT: We digress. >.< Anyway, Fut, make sure to decide what you really want and why you want it and then stick to it (regarding your love mess).
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Quote from: winkioI do not speak to bricks, either as individuals or in wall form.

Quote from: Barney StinsonWhen I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

SBR*

Perhaps it's a good idea to split this topic? Although in my opinion we don't digress at all: we're discussing what's the best thing for him to do in our opinions. Your opinion made me curious, though: would you try to seduce a married woman?

Subsonic_Noise

Quote from: Blizzard on January 05, 2012, 04:59:15 pm
Quote from: Subsonic_Noise on January 05, 2012, 04:45:29 pm
I'm not in a position to compare, but I had quite a few girls attempt to cheat on their boyfriends with me. Note the attempt. I didn't because I got style.


I know what you mean. >.< It's a matter of choice really. I used to not want to steal away girlfriends when I was young, but the truth was that I felt inadequate and didn't want my fragile little ego to get hurt if she chose him over me after all. Basically for me it was just a big fat excuse covered in righteousness, what can I say. :/ I'm just happy that I see clearly now.
It's important to stick to your true principles, whatever they may be.

I'm just kind of an idealist. Plus, I don't value sex as high as many others do, so concidering that a) there is a girl I love, and she loves me back, and b) Does there really have to be a b? I had and still have no interest. :P So, similar to how you have fun picking up girls, I have fun rejecting them in hillarious ways (mostly I try to do it in a way that doesn't hurt anyone though XD) At new years eve, I rejected two girls by telling them I am engaged and have three kids.

Blizzard

January 05, 2012, 07:18:14 pm #13 Last Edit: January 05, 2012, 07:28:45 pm by Blizzard
Quote from: SBR* on January 05, 2012, 05:26:38 pm
Perhaps it's a good idea to split this topic? Although in my opinion we don't digress at all: we're discussing what's the best thing for him to do in our opinions. Your opinion made me curious, though: would you try to seduce a married woman?


Married, no. This is a borderline I don't want to cross. A married woman may have kids and a family. I don't want be partially responsible for potentially destroying or damaging something like this. "Stealing away" a woman from another man is one thing, but "stealing away" a mother from a child is something entirely different for me. A married woman without children may be an exception, because it's "in between", but so far I have avoided them. As soon as I see a ring or hear the word husband, I'm out, I don't care, I don't wanna know, I don't want any part in this.
I'm not sure if this look on things came from my Catholic background or because I actually do believe in family values, but it doesn't matter. This is a border I won't want to cross and that's all that matters to me. Damaging somebody's childhood just for a good fuck isn't worth it. There are plenty of girls out there.

Quote from: Subsonic_Noise on January 05, 2012, 05:37:06 pm
I'm just kind of an idealist. Plus, I don't value sex as high as many others do, so concidering that a) there is a girl I love, and she loves me back, and b) Does there really have to be a b? I had and still have no interest. :P So, similar to how you have fun picking up girls, I have fun rejecting them in hillarious ways (mostly I try to do it in a way that doesn't hurt anyone though XD) At new years eve, I rejected two girls by telling them I am engaged and have three kids.


Lol! I stopped being an idealist where it doesn't belong to be one. xD I wasn't happy being idealistic about relationships so I changed it. I just got hurt way too much over basically nothing. I remember back when I was 15-ish that one thing about a girl. I never met her back then, but I cried for a whole fucking day and felt like crap for another 2 weeks (until my roommate snapped me out of it with a lie after which I hated her for over a year, long story #_#) when I found out she had a boyfriend. That was an extreme case obviously, but still. I was suffering over nothing so I eventually stopped idealizing. This was probably one the best thing I did in my whole life, because I started seeing things for what they are and accepting them (without judgment obviously).

EDIT: Just for the record. This:

Quote from: Blizzard on January 05, 2012, 03:13:54 pm
Maybe I'm just a hopeless romantic that refuses to believe that women are worse than men.


was massive sarcasm.
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Quote from: winkioI do not speak to bricks, either as individuals or in wall form.

Quote from: Barney StinsonWhen I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

Subsonic_Noise

Meh, I'm happy with it like this. I get all the highs, so obviously there are gonna be some lows too... but I prefer it this way. Plus, I can get out of depression and stuff like that pretty easily since I realized that I have my life in my own hands. When I don't like things about my life, I can change them, and every moment I spend being depressed and feeling sorry for myself is a moment I could spend on solving the problem. :P

Blizzard

Of course, highs and lows are a part of life. But I don't want to have lows over nothing. It doesn't make any sense.
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Quote from: winkioI do not speak to bricks, either as individuals or in wall form.

Quote from: Barney StinsonWhen I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

Subsonic_Noise

Obviously. But there comes the part whether you think it's nothing or not. :P For me it's not, for you it is. I value my current relationship above everything. It already took alot of lows to get there, but fuck it, if I didn't put up with those I wouldn't have these highs now. :P

SBR*

Quote from: Blizzard on January 05, 2012, 04:59:15 pm
Quote from: Subsonic_Noise on January 05, 2012, 04:45:29 pm
I'm not in a position to compare, but I had quite a few girls attempt to cheat on their boyfriends with me. Note the attempt. I didn't because I got style.


I know what you mean. >.< It's a matter of choice really. I used to not want to steal away girlfriends when I was young, but the truth was that I felt inadequate and didn't want my fragile little ego to get hurt if she chose him over me after all. Basically for me it was just a big fat excuse covered in righteousness, what can I say. :/ I'm just happy that I see clearly now.
It's important to stick to your true principles, whatever they may be.


IMO, THAT's just an excuse, turned and twisted so it makes sense. The fact that you didn't want to have a relationship with a girl, who already had a boyfriend, might also have to do with the unrighteousness that's combined with that.

I have thought about this for a while, and came up with two examples I know of in real life:
1) My father once had a friend, who had had a relationship for a long time. A famous person tried to seduce the girlfriend for ages and ages, until she finally fell for him.
2) A boy had a relationship with a girl. One day, she came home and told him she had fallen in love with someone else.

IMO, person 1 is an asshole. He actively tried to ruin the relationship. However, in 2, the girl fell in love with someone else; a happening that is inevitable. In other words, we shouldn't ask ourselves whether or not it's correct to steal a girlfriend, but WHEN it is.

Blizzard

January 06, 2012, 06:02:28 am #18 Last Edit: January 06, 2012, 07:06:01 am by Blizzard
Quote from: SBR* on January 06, 2012, 04:33:30 am
IMO, THAT's just an excuse, turned and twisted so it makes sense. The fact that you didn't want to have a relationship with a girl, who already had a boyfriend, might also have to do with the unrighteousness that's combined with that.


You are using a double negative to make sense instead of providing an actual reason. Besides, I don't think you understood my post. I wrote that it was an excuse and I hid behind a moral value to appear good and saint and all that shit instead of doing what I truly believed in even if it is the opposite of what some moral values teach. You fail to realize that I have been at point A and now I'm at point B which gives me an actual perspective where you have never been at point B and are only assuming how point B is like. Whether you realize it or not, this is what a narrow-minded opinion is. You ASSUME how point B is like without knowing and you form an opinion without basing it on anything real.

EDIT: That reminds me of a quote that I saw in Skyrim. IDK if they took it from somewhere else: "Is it better to be born good or to be born evil and overcome the evil?" I think the latter is better, because if you have seen both sides, you have a better perspective on things. Someone who hasn't seen both sides of the coin can't possibly have the same depth of belief. I'm not saying that everybody with "good" beliefs is just scared from trying the opposite or that they are hiding, but they are usually judgmental which means that they are hiding behind their belief. Heck, I was doing it, I should know.

Quote from: SBR* on January 06, 2012, 04:33:30 am
I have thought about this for a while, and came up with two examples I know of in real life:
1) My father once had a friend, who had had a relationship for a long time. A famous person tried to seduce the girlfriend for ages and ages, until she finally fell for him.
2) A boy had a relationship with a girl. One day, she came home and told him she had fallen in love with someone else.

IMO, person 1 is an asshole. He actively tried to ruin the relationship. However, in 2, the girl fell in love with someone else; a happening that is inevitable. In other words, we shouldn't ask ourselves whether or not it's correct to steal a girlfriend, but WHEN it is.


You are still looking for a justification for what you do so that you can rationalize it afterwards. "Oh, I did it only, because it just happened." "Oh, I did it only, because she wasn't happy in her relationship." "Oh, I did it only, because she liked me more anyway." That's a prime example for an excuse, nothing else. From your point of view to me it seems that you don't believe in stealing girlfriends, but you leave yourself loopholes so that you can do it anyway which is hypocritical. Either you do it or you don't. There are no small exceptions where you are allowed to go against something you believe in.

EDIT: In your first statement you are being judgmental of the guy and you are labeling him as an asshole. Just because he is famous and she finally fell for him, doesn't mean he's an asshole. Don't you think after so much time the woman would have realized that he's an asshole if he was one? You are yet again making a judgment without knowing the whole story.

2nd EDIT: Before you misunderstand here something. I am not judging you and I am not saying that you are hypocritical or hiding behind your beliefs. It's just that I have seen enough cases to notice indicators so I am merely pointing out the possibilities for you. It's your call whether you will accept my criticism or not and it's your call what you will do about it. It happened to me that I deemed certain criticism as untrue for many, many times and at one time I realized that it's been true all along and that I was just denying it. You could say that it was hidden deep under layers and layers of rationalizations and justifications, because I cared too much what others think of me.
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Quote from: winkioI do not speak to bricks, either as individuals or in wall form.

Quote from: Barney StinsonWhen I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

SBR*

Quote from: Blizzard on January 06, 2012, 06:02:28 am
Quote from: SBR* on January 06, 2012, 04:33:30 am
IMO, THAT's just an excuse, turned and twisted so it makes sense. The fact that you didn't want to have a relationship with a girl, who already had a boyfriend, might also have to do with the unrighteousness that's combined with that.


You are using a double negative to make sense instead of providing an actual reason. Besides, I don't think you understood my post. I wrote that it was an excuse and I hid behind a moral value to appear good and saint and all that shit instead of doing what I truly believed in even if it is the opposite of what some moral values teach. You fail to realize that I have been at point A and now I'm at point B which gives me an actual perspective where you have never been at point B and are only assuming how point B is like. Whether you realize it or not, this is what a narrow-minded opinion is. You ASSUME how point B is like without knowing and you form an opinion without basing it on anything real.


I get your point, but I still disagree with you :). I might be assuming what point B is like, but IMO this is so fundamental that it can't change, but, indeed, even that is what I assume. Though, now I'm seeing it a bit more loosely. I wouldn't do it myself, because IMO you would be breaking an other man's heart, just because you want THAT woman.

Quote from: Blizzard
EDIT: In your first statement you are being judgmental of the guy and you are labeling him as an asshole. Just because he is famous and she finally fell for him, doesn't mean he's an asshole. Don't you think after so much time the woman would have realized that he's an asshole if he was one? You are yet again making a judgment without knowing the whole story.


I think you misread my post too :). I don't find him an asshole because he's famous. That doesn't matter to me whatsoever. The problem is that at first she wasn't interested in him; she was having a perfectly fine relationship. He, on the other hand, refused to give up and, ultimately, she fell for him.

Quote from: Blizzard
From your point of view to me it seems that you don't believe in stealing girlfriends, but you leave yourself loopholes so that you can do it anyway which is hypocritical.


The difference is the amount of effort put into it. In case 1, the famous man had to push her to do it, while in case 2, it was love at first sight and from the beginning, she had decided she would leave her boyfriend for the other guy.

P.S. I tend to continue discussions for ages and ages, so if anybody would like to stop, please tell me :).