SPLIT OFF: Love, and shit like that.

Started by Blizzard, January 05, 2012, 10:40:48 am

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Blizzard

Quote from: SBR* on January 05, 2012, 07:40:35 am
I do highly disagree with that. IMO, you shouldn't 'steal' a girlfriend.


It's a matter of perspective. If she really liked her current boyfriend, she wouldn't leave her boyfriend for somebody else. Women jump from boyfriend to boyfriend all the time.
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Quote from: winkioI do not speak to bricks, either as individuals or in wall form.

Quote from: Barney StinsonWhen I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

Subsonic_Noise

I'd say that for me, a woman that does that doesn't really know what she wants usually, or gets in relationships with guys she doesn't really seem to know beforehand... if she did, she would have noticed before that she doesn't really like him. One way or the other, I wouldn't trust a girl like that.

Subsonic_Noise

I think I should note here that the things blizzard says are based on his experiences, meaning they are not universal. While they might be good at times, you shouldn
t just follow them blindly.

No offense to you blizz, I just see people blindly believing everything you say and when it comes to things like this, that can be dangerous. :P

SBR*

It also depends on the amount of effort you put into it. If you're trying to seduce her for ages and ages, she might eventually give up her current boyfriend, but if she leaves that boyfriend for you after even the smallest amount of hinting you did, well, then she was probably trying to make you jealous, so then I guess it's ok. BTW, I've never had a relationship, but I'm basing this on my knowledge of the human kind.

Blizzard

Quote from: Subsonic_Noise on January 05, 2012, 11:14:16 am
I'd say that for me, a woman that does that doesn't really know what she wants usually, or gets in relationships with guys she doesn't really seem to know beforehand... if she did, she would have noticed before that she doesn't really like him. One way or the other, I wouldn't trust a girl like that.


Nah, women have a good instinct for that (it's part of their nature). They almost always jump to a better guy, they know exactly what they are doing.
And you are right not to trust a girl like that, though, that isn't universal either. There are women who are in relationships for long times before they make a jump like that. These women are totally decent girls and all, but they will still submit to their emotions if you know how to work them. I have yet to confirm this, but it indicates that women a much bigger cheaters than men, they just hide it better. I am not yet confident enough in this belief, but all evidence points towards it. Maybe I'm just a hopeless romantic that refuses to believe that women are worse than men.

Quote from: Subsonic_Noise on January 05, 2012, 12:45:13 pm
I think I should note here that the things blizzard says are based on his experiences, meaning they are not universal. While they might be good at times, you shouldn
t just follow them blindly.

No offense to you blizz, I just see people blindly believing everything you say and when it comes to things like this, that can be dangerous. :P


No problem. I'd rather have my beliefs challenged than blindly followed by a bunch of brainless idiots. #_# That way I might learn something new. Experience has taught me these things, but that doesn't mean they are completely correct or accurate. They can still be fine-tuned. Also, these are generalizations. They don't apply to every single woman out there, they apply to the majority. There always are and always will be exceptions to the rule. My goal is to find generalizations that are accurate enough so that they can have practical appliance.
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Quote from: winkioI do not speak to bricks, either as individuals or in wall form.

Quote from: Barney StinsonWhen I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

SBR*

I'm sorry, but are you being sexist right now? You're making it seem like it's normal if a girl jumps from relation to relation all the time, while I think it's actually the opposite.
Quote from: BlizzardThese women are totally decent girls and all, but they will still submit to their emotions if you know how to work them.

That's just totally sexist.

winkio

talking about differences in relationships is not sexist.  Males and females are both biologically and socially different in mating patterns, no matter what species of mammal you deal with.  Sexism is discriminating based on gender in the workplace, public services, government, and the rest of society.

SBR*

Quote from: winkio on January 05, 2012, 03:50:54 pm
talking about differences in relationships is not sexist.  Males and females are both biologically and socially different in mating patterns, no matter what species of mammal you deal with.  Sexism is discriminating based on gender in the workplace, public services, government, and the rest of society.


Hmm, you're right :).

Blizzard

What winkio said.

As for your original question:

Quote from: SBR* on January 05, 2012, 03:35:25 pm
You're making it seem like it's normal if a girl jumps from relation to relation all the time, while I think it's actually the opposite.


No, not all the time. As I said, a girl could be a few years in a relationship and then jump to the next one when something better comes along.
I don't judge them for that, it's just the way they are. That's what experience has shown me and I accept it the way it is. Heck, it often even works to my advantage. :V:
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Quote from: winkioI do not speak to bricks, either as individuals or in wall form.

Quote from: Barney StinsonWhen I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

Subsonic_Noise

Quote from: SBR* on January 05, 2012, 03:35:25 pm
Quote from: BlizzardThese women are totally decent girls and all, but they will still submit to their emotions if you know how to work them.

That's just totally sexy.

Well, it *is* a generalisation, as Blizzard said. Based on his experiences. He's not saying it's like that for all women. Which it luckily isn't. :P

Quote from: Blizzard on January 05, 2012, 03:13:54 pm
Quote from: Subsonic_Noise on January 05, 2012, 11:14:16 am
I'd say that for me, a woman that does that doesn't really know what she wants usually, or gets in relationships with guys she doesn't really seem to know beforehand... if she did, she would have noticed before that she doesn't really like him. One way or the other, I wouldn't trust a girl like that.


Nah, women have a good instinct for that (it's part of their nature). They almost always jump to a better guy, they know exactly what they are doing.
And you are right not to trust a girl like that, though, that isn't universal either. There are women who are in relationships for long times before they make a jump like that. These women are totally decent girls and all, but they will still submit to their emotions if you know how to work them. I have yet to confirm this, but it indicates that women a much bigger cheaters than men, they just hide it better. I am not yet confident enough in this belief, but all evidence points towards it. Maybe I'm just a hopeless romantic that refuses to believe that women are worse than men.


I'm not in a position to compare, but I had quite a few girls attempt to cheat on their boyfriends with me. Note the attempt. I didn't because I got style.

Quote from: Blizzard on January 05, 2012, 03:13:54 pm
Quote from: Subsonic_Noise on January 05, 2012, 12:45:13 pm
I think I should note here that the things blizzard says are based on his experiences, meaning they are not universal. While they might be good at times, you shouldn
t just follow them blindly.

No offense to you blizz, I just see people blindly believing everything you say and when it comes to things like this, that can be dangerous. :P


No problem. I'd rather have my beliefs challenged than blindly followed by a bunch of brainless idiots. #_# That way I might learn something new. Experience has taught me these things, but that doesn't mean they are completely correct or accurate. They can still be fine-tuned. Also, these are generalizations. They don't apply to every single woman out there, they apply to the majority. There always are and always will be exceptions to the rule. My goal is to find generalizations that are accurate enough so that they can have practical appliance.

Good we got that sorted out. I think we should put something like this in a stickied topic, because I see people just blindly following you all the time. :P

Blizzard

January 05, 2012, 04:59:15 pm #10 Last Edit: January 05, 2012, 05:00:32 pm by Blizzard
Quote from: Subsonic_Noise on January 05, 2012, 04:45:29 pm
I'm not in a position to compare, but I had quite a few girls attempt to cheat on their boyfriends with me. Note the attempt. I didn't because I got style.


I know what you mean. >.< It's a matter of choice really. I used to not want to steal away girlfriends when I was young, but the truth was that I felt inadequate and didn't want my fragile little ego to get hurt if she chose him over me after all. Basically for me it was just a big fat excuse covered in righteousness, what can I say. :/ I'm just happy that I see clearly now.
It's important to stick to your true principles, whatever they may be.

Quote from: Subsonic_Noise on January 05, 2012, 04:45:29 pm
Good we got that sorted out. I think we should put something like this in a stickied topic, because I see people just blindly following you all the time. :P


Not my fault that people can't think for themselves. xD But following isn't always a bad thing. If you are lost, then somebody leading you a bit is pretty much a life saver.

EDIT: We digress. >.< Anyway, Fut, make sure to decide what you really want and why you want it and then stick to it (regarding your love mess).
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Quote from: winkioI do not speak to bricks, either as individuals or in wall form.

Quote from: Barney StinsonWhen I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

SBR*

Perhaps it's a good idea to split this topic? Although in my opinion we don't digress at all: we're discussing what's the best thing for him to do in our opinions. Your opinion made me curious, though: would you try to seduce a married woman?

Subsonic_Noise

Quote from: Blizzard on January 05, 2012, 04:59:15 pm
Quote from: Subsonic_Noise on January 05, 2012, 04:45:29 pm
I'm not in a position to compare, but I had quite a few girls attempt to cheat on their boyfriends with me. Note the attempt. I didn't because I got style.


I know what you mean. >.< It's a matter of choice really. I used to not want to steal away girlfriends when I was young, but the truth was that I felt inadequate and didn't want my fragile little ego to get hurt if she chose him over me after all. Basically for me it was just a big fat excuse covered in righteousness, what can I say. :/ I'm just happy that I see clearly now.
It's important to stick to your true principles, whatever they may be.

I'm just kind of an idealist. Plus, I don't value sex as high as many others do, so concidering that a) there is a girl I love, and she loves me back, and b) Does there really have to be a b? I had and still have no interest. :P So, similar to how you have fun picking up girls, I have fun rejecting them in hillarious ways (mostly I try to do it in a way that doesn't hurt anyone though XD) At new years eve, I rejected two girls by telling them I am engaged and have three kids.

Blizzard

January 05, 2012, 07:18:14 pm #13 Last Edit: January 05, 2012, 07:28:45 pm by Blizzard
Quote from: SBR* on January 05, 2012, 05:26:38 pm
Perhaps it's a good idea to split this topic? Although in my opinion we don't digress at all: we're discussing what's the best thing for him to do in our opinions. Your opinion made me curious, though: would you try to seduce a married woman?


Married, no. This is a borderline I don't want to cross. A married woman may have kids and a family. I don't want be partially responsible for potentially destroying or damaging something like this. "Stealing away" a woman from another man is one thing, but "stealing away" a mother from a child is something entirely different for me. A married woman without children may be an exception, because it's "in between", but so far I have avoided them. As soon as I see a ring or hear the word husband, I'm out, I don't care, I don't wanna know, I don't want any part in this.
I'm not sure if this look on things came from my Catholic background or because I actually do believe in family values, but it doesn't matter. This is a border I won't want to cross and that's all that matters to me. Damaging somebody's childhood just for a good fuck isn't worth it. There are plenty of girls out there.

Quote from: Subsonic_Noise on January 05, 2012, 05:37:06 pm
I'm just kind of an idealist. Plus, I don't value sex as high as many others do, so concidering that a) there is a girl I love, and she loves me back, and b) Does there really have to be a b? I had and still have no interest. :P So, similar to how you have fun picking up girls, I have fun rejecting them in hillarious ways (mostly I try to do it in a way that doesn't hurt anyone though XD) At new years eve, I rejected two girls by telling them I am engaged and have three kids.


Lol! I stopped being an idealist where it doesn't belong to be one. xD I wasn't happy being idealistic about relationships so I changed it. I just got hurt way too much over basically nothing. I remember back when I was 15-ish that one thing about a girl. I never met her back then, but I cried for a whole fucking day and felt like crap for another 2 weeks (until my roommate snapped me out of it with a lie after which I hated her for over a year, long story #_#) when I found out she had a boyfriend. That was an extreme case obviously, but still. I was suffering over nothing so I eventually stopped idealizing. This was probably one the best thing I did in my whole life, because I started seeing things for what they are and accepting them (without judgment obviously).

EDIT: Just for the record. This:

Quote from: Blizzard on January 05, 2012, 03:13:54 pm
Maybe I'm just a hopeless romantic that refuses to believe that women are worse than men.


was massive sarcasm.
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Quote from: winkioI do not speak to bricks, either as individuals or in wall form.

Quote from: Barney StinsonWhen I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

Subsonic_Noise

Meh, I'm happy with it like this. I get all the highs, so obviously there are gonna be some lows too... but I prefer it this way. Plus, I can get out of depression and stuff like that pretty easily since I realized that I have my life in my own hands. When I don't like things about my life, I can change them, and every moment I spend being depressed and feeling sorry for myself is a moment I could spend on solving the problem. :P

Blizzard

Of course, highs and lows are a part of life. But I don't want to have lows over nothing. It doesn't make any sense.
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Quote from: winkioI do not speak to bricks, either as individuals or in wall form.

Quote from: Barney StinsonWhen I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

Subsonic_Noise

Obviously. But there comes the part whether you think it's nothing or not. :P For me it's not, for you it is. I value my current relationship above everything. It already took alot of lows to get there, but fuck it, if I didn't put up with those I wouldn't have these highs now. :P

SBR*

Quote from: Blizzard on January 05, 2012, 04:59:15 pm
Quote from: Subsonic_Noise on January 05, 2012, 04:45:29 pm
I'm not in a position to compare, but I had quite a few girls attempt to cheat on their boyfriends with me. Note the attempt. I didn't because I got style.


I know what you mean. >.< It's a matter of choice really. I used to not want to steal away girlfriends when I was young, but the truth was that I felt inadequate and didn't want my fragile little ego to get hurt if she chose him over me after all. Basically for me it was just a big fat excuse covered in righteousness, what can I say. :/ I'm just happy that I see clearly now.
It's important to stick to your true principles, whatever they may be.


IMO, THAT's just an excuse, turned and twisted so it makes sense. The fact that you didn't want to have a relationship with a girl, who already had a boyfriend, might also have to do with the unrighteousness that's combined with that.

I have thought about this for a while, and came up with two examples I know of in real life:
1) My father once had a friend, who had had a relationship for a long time. A famous person tried to seduce the girlfriend for ages and ages, until she finally fell for him.
2) A boy had a relationship with a girl. One day, she came home and told him she had fallen in love with someone else.

IMO, person 1 is an asshole. He actively tried to ruin the relationship. However, in 2, the girl fell in love with someone else; a happening that is inevitable. In other words, we shouldn't ask ourselves whether or not it's correct to steal a girlfriend, but WHEN it is.

Blizzard

January 06, 2012, 06:02:28 am #18 Last Edit: January 06, 2012, 07:06:01 am by Blizzard
Quote from: SBR* on January 06, 2012, 04:33:30 am
IMO, THAT's just an excuse, turned and twisted so it makes sense. The fact that you didn't want to have a relationship with a girl, who already had a boyfriend, might also have to do with the unrighteousness that's combined with that.


You are using a double negative to make sense instead of providing an actual reason. Besides, I don't think you understood my post. I wrote that it was an excuse and I hid behind a moral value to appear good and saint and all that shit instead of doing what I truly believed in even if it is the opposite of what some moral values teach. You fail to realize that I have been at point A and now I'm at point B which gives me an actual perspective where you have never been at point B and are only assuming how point B is like. Whether you realize it or not, this is what a narrow-minded opinion is. You ASSUME how point B is like without knowing and you form an opinion without basing it on anything real.

EDIT: That reminds me of a quote that I saw in Skyrim. IDK if they took it from somewhere else: "Is it better to be born good or to be born evil and overcome the evil?" I think the latter is better, because if you have seen both sides, you have a better perspective on things. Someone who hasn't seen both sides of the coin can't possibly have the same depth of belief. I'm not saying that everybody with "good" beliefs is just scared from trying the opposite or that they are hiding, but they are usually judgmental which means that they are hiding behind their belief. Heck, I was doing it, I should know.

Quote from: SBR* on January 06, 2012, 04:33:30 am
I have thought about this for a while, and came up with two examples I know of in real life:
1) My father once had a friend, who had had a relationship for a long time. A famous person tried to seduce the girlfriend for ages and ages, until she finally fell for him.
2) A boy had a relationship with a girl. One day, she came home and told him she had fallen in love with someone else.

IMO, person 1 is an asshole. He actively tried to ruin the relationship. However, in 2, the girl fell in love with someone else; a happening that is inevitable. In other words, we shouldn't ask ourselves whether or not it's correct to steal a girlfriend, but WHEN it is.


You are still looking for a justification for what you do so that you can rationalize it afterwards. "Oh, I did it only, because it just happened." "Oh, I did it only, because she wasn't happy in her relationship." "Oh, I did it only, because she liked me more anyway." That's a prime example for an excuse, nothing else. From your point of view to me it seems that you don't believe in stealing girlfriends, but you leave yourself loopholes so that you can do it anyway which is hypocritical. Either you do it or you don't. There are no small exceptions where you are allowed to go against something you believe in.

EDIT: In your first statement you are being judgmental of the guy and you are labeling him as an asshole. Just because he is famous and she finally fell for him, doesn't mean he's an asshole. Don't you think after so much time the woman would have realized that he's an asshole if he was one? You are yet again making a judgment without knowing the whole story.

2nd EDIT: Before you misunderstand here something. I am not judging you and I am not saying that you are hypocritical or hiding behind your beliefs. It's just that I have seen enough cases to notice indicators so I am merely pointing out the possibilities for you. It's your call whether you will accept my criticism or not and it's your call what you will do about it. It happened to me that I deemed certain criticism as untrue for many, many times and at one time I realized that it's been true all along and that I was just denying it. You could say that it was hidden deep under layers and layers of rationalizations and justifications, because I cared too much what others think of me.
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Quote from: winkioI do not speak to bricks, either as individuals or in wall form.

Quote from: Barney StinsonWhen I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

SBR*

Quote from: Blizzard on January 06, 2012, 06:02:28 am
Quote from: SBR* on January 06, 2012, 04:33:30 am
IMO, THAT's just an excuse, turned and twisted so it makes sense. The fact that you didn't want to have a relationship with a girl, who already had a boyfriend, might also have to do with the unrighteousness that's combined with that.


You are using a double negative to make sense instead of providing an actual reason. Besides, I don't think you understood my post. I wrote that it was an excuse and I hid behind a moral value to appear good and saint and all that shit instead of doing what I truly believed in even if it is the opposite of what some moral values teach. You fail to realize that I have been at point A and now I'm at point B which gives me an actual perspective where you have never been at point B and are only assuming how point B is like. Whether you realize it or not, this is what a narrow-minded opinion is. You ASSUME how point B is like without knowing and you form an opinion without basing it on anything real.


I get your point, but I still disagree with you :). I might be assuming what point B is like, but IMO this is so fundamental that it can't change, but, indeed, even that is what I assume. Though, now I'm seeing it a bit more loosely. I wouldn't do it myself, because IMO you would be breaking an other man's heart, just because you want THAT woman.

Quote from: Blizzard
EDIT: In your first statement you are being judgmental of the guy and you are labeling him as an asshole. Just because he is famous and she finally fell for him, doesn't mean he's an asshole. Don't you think after so much time the woman would have realized that he's an asshole if he was one? You are yet again making a judgment without knowing the whole story.


I think you misread my post too :). I don't find him an asshole because he's famous. That doesn't matter to me whatsoever. The problem is that at first she wasn't interested in him; she was having a perfectly fine relationship. He, on the other hand, refused to give up and, ultimately, she fell for him.

Quote from: Blizzard
From your point of view to me it seems that you don't believe in stealing girlfriends, but you leave yourself loopholes so that you can do it anyway which is hypocritical.


The difference is the amount of effort put into it. In case 1, the famous man had to push her to do it, while in case 2, it was love at first sight and from the beginning, she had decided she would leave her boyfriend for the other guy.

P.S. I tend to continue discussions for ages and ages, so if anybody would like to stop, please tell me :).

brendan_pr

January 06, 2012, 08:52:09 am #20 Last Edit: January 06, 2012, 09:21:11 am by brendan_pr
Quote from: Blizzard on January 05, 2012, 04:28:56 pm

Quote from: SBR* on January 05, 2012, 03:35:25 pm
You're making it seem like it's normal if a girl jumps from relation to relation all the time, while I think it's actually the opposite.


No, not all the time. As I said, a girl could be a few years in a relationship and then jump to the next one when something better comes along.
I don't judge them for that, it's just the way they are. That's what experience has shown me and I accept it the way it is. Heck, it often even works to my advantage. :V:



that might be how it works out with girls sometimes. but that is also what guys do too if they are not happy. either way it might be the "human" thing to do, giving in to your emotions, but it doesn't mean it's the "right" thing to do. you are still a pretty horrible person if you lead someone on for years like that. especially if you go about it messy which is almost inevitable in that situation




im not saying that they should lock them up and throw away the key but unless it is to get out of an abusive relationship (and that has it's own set of problems) there is no possible scenario where you "jump to someone else because they are better" and not be a total immature jerk


"we have reached a point where we both want something else and agree as adults" not "theres this person who is better than you and so yeah"........ this is assuming you are actually having an adult relationship :P




but honestly if the relationship was that one sided that the girl is actually pursuing plans to find someone better then it probably wasn't going to work out in the first place. i'm realistic enough to admit that everyone thinks about what it would be like to be with someone else. i am of the opinion that if you really love each other you can clear those thoughts and get over them, not pursue them






edit: also i find it pretty hilarious here we are a bunch of super nerds trying to talk about and classify "love"  :haha:


Subsonic_Noise

January 06, 2012, 10:41:26 am #22 Last Edit: January 06, 2012, 10:44:57 am by Subsonic_Noise
This discussion is irrelevant because there is noone better than me.
:V?

Quoteedit: also i find it pretty hilarious here we are a bunch of super nerds trying to talk about and classify "love"

I don't see the part that makes us super nerds. :P And even if we were, I don't see how that makes us unqualified to talk about love.

To add something to this, basically what it comes down to with this is personal opinion. While me and brandan (I assume) wouldn't want to be with a girl like that, Boris probably would, and there's nothing wrong with that. Neither of both is really "right", because it comes down to morals, and those are not something universal.

Blizzard

January 06, 2012, 12:16:06 pm #23 Last Edit: January 06, 2012, 12:17:42 pm by Blizzard
Quote from: SBR* on January 06, 2012, 07:38:24 am
I get your point, but I still disagree with you :). I might be assuming what point B is like, but IMO this is so fundamental that it can't change, but, indeed, even that is what I assume. Though, now I'm seeing it a bit more loosely. I wouldn't do it myself, because IMO you would be breaking an other man's heart, just because you want THAT woman.


That's completely fine and I respect that. Just stick to your belief and you will be fine. If you ever change your belief, stick to the new one. That's the only thing that matters.

Quote from: SBR* on January 06, 2012, 07:38:24 am
I think you misread my post too :). I don't find him an asshole because he's famous. That doesn't matter to me whatsoever. The problem is that at first she wasn't interested in him; she was having a perfectly fine relationship. He, on the other hand, refused to give up and, ultimately, she fell for him.


I see. Well, I still wouldn't label him an asshole for doing that. I would only label him an asshole if he left her afterwards or cheated on her. If he stayed with her all the way, he may as well be the "good guy" in a movie who fell in love with a girl that already had a boyfriend and over time she fell for him. People never hate the "good guy", lol! As I said, it's a matter of perspective.

Quote from: SBR* on January 06, 2012, 07:38:24 am
The difference is the amount of effort put into it. In case 1, the famous man had to push her to do it, while in case 2, it was love at first sight and from the beginning, she had decided she would leave her boyfriend for the other guy.


First: You can't really push people into doing things that they don't want to (except with force and threats and that shit), you can only push them into doing something they wanted to do in the first place, but they simply didn't do it because of various reasons (wrong moral values, excuses, afraid of others being judgmental, etc.).

Second: It's still a loophole that allows you to go against your beliefs: "It's ok to steal a girlfriend if it's not too much effort, but otherwise it's not ok." Either you do it or you don't. If you decide at one point somebody's not worth the effort, because it's taking too long, then your original belief was that you would steal a girlfriend and you decided after a while to give up. The original belief was not that you wouldn't steal a girlfriend. Circumstances have nothing to do with what you believe in. Otherwise it would mean that you would steal a girlfriend only under the right circumstances, right? And that is hypocritical, because apparently you don't believe in "not stealing" them. See my point now?
Also, there is a significant difference here in the structure of the beliefs. Believing in "not stealing" forbids you any kind of stealing under any circumstance while believing in "stealing" allows you to act upon judgment. If you think she's worth the time, you can do it. If not, screw it. I generally find it fascinating that people would rather stick to the forbidding belief that is considered "good" and "high moral" or whatever and break it from time to time than going all the way and sticking to the other belief even if it may be judged by others. Ironically enough, people will only look up to you that you have the courage to stick to what you really believe in regardless of what everybody else or society says.

I remember somebody telling me recently how he was messing around with a girl that had a boyfriend. They didn't have sex, they didn't even kiss each other yet, but there was sexual tension between them. He's saying that he generally wouldn't do it. But if he would truly believe in not stealing girlfriends, he would have stayed away from her in the first place. He isn't sure about his beliefs, that's why he pushed the whole thing so far. He was basically about to have sex with her. He's realized that and currently he's trying to figure out what he wants to believe in.
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Quote from: winkioI do not speak to bricks, either as individuals or in wall form.

Quote from: Barney StinsonWhen I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

brendan_pr

If you really like the girl there is not much you can do about it but the other guy might like her just as much so it really becomes her choice. But there are many fish in the sea and I don't see why you would choose to go after someone who is already taken. so you would have to really like this person for that to be worth it and for that you need to know the person

SBR*

January 06, 2012, 12:28:03 pm #25 Last Edit: January 06, 2012, 12:29:12 pm by SBR*
Hmmm... I see. Well, the thing is, I don't think case 2 is 'stealing'. IMO, stealing is 'forcefully' (not literally) taking, thus putting effort into it. You step up to her and do your pick-up line things, whatever the heck you do, and she 'immediately' falls in love with you; she already has decided to leave her boyfriend for you. That's the girl's primary choice.

But I'm repeating myself now. I figured that I was confusing some things. The fact that I found him an asshole, probably was partially due to the fact that my father knows the ex. Though, I'm not sure if this is true.

Quote from: Blizzard"It's ok to steal a girlfriend if it's not too much effort, but otherwise it's not ok."

In this case, effort =/= trouble. With effort, I mean the persuasion and convincing of the girl, in which the girl is the keyword. I'm sorry if I was unclear :).

EDIT: I'd also like to note that I respect your opinion too, Blizz. One 'bad' thing - in my point of view, at least - doesn't make someone good or bad, after all.

Blizzard

January 06, 2012, 12:39:31 pm #26 Last Edit: January 06, 2012, 12:54:30 pm by Blizzard
Quote from: SBR* on January 06, 2012, 12:28:03 pm
Quote from: Blizzard"It's ok to steal a girlfriend if it's not too much effort, but otherwise it's not ok."

In this case, effort =/= trouble. With effort, I mean the persuasion and convincing of the girl, in which the girl is the keyword. I'm sorry if I was unclear :).


LMAO! Now I know that you're totally on the wrong track. You can't convince or persuade a girl to love you, women don't work that way. That is completely impossible. I know that this is an absolute statement, but I know it's true.

Quote from: SBR* on January 06, 2012, 12:28:03 pm
Hmmm... I see. Well, the thing is, I don't think case 2 is 'stealing'. IMO, stealing is 'forcefully' (not literally) taking, thus putting effort into it. You step up to her and do your pick-up line things, whatever the heck you do, and she 'immediately' falls in love with you; she already has decided to leave her boyfriend for you. That's the girl's primary choice.


That's just an illusion. There are no magical pickup lines that do all the work for you. You do have control over whether she falls in love with you or not to an extent, but this still isn't up to you in the end. And besides, it's a process. Falling in love doesn't happen in 5 seconds.
If she loved her boyfriend really, she wouldn't cheat. If you are better than her boyfriend, chances are high that she will cheat, especially if she has fallen in love with you more than she is with her boyfriend. At that point she already wants it and it's just up to you to decide whether you want it and take it all the way. Obviously you can't do that with logic either, you can't convince her. She'll keep lying to herself that she's faithful and she will blame you afterwards. "It's your fault, you knew she had a boyfriend!" That's bullshit, it takes two and she's just rationalizing her part to get rid of the responsibility. Of course, I personally couldn't care less how she handles it. If she didn't want to do it, she wouldn't have done it. That's when I realized the world is full of hypocrites. >.< I probably am still a hypocrite myself to an extent, but I am working on making it smaller and smaller.

Quote from: SBR* on January 06, 2012, 12:28:03 pm
EDIT: I'd also like to note that I respect your opinion too, Blizz. One 'bad' thing - in my point of view, at least - doesn't make someone good or bad, after all.


Yeah, good and bad are just perspectives after all. Something that society views as bad doesn't necessarily have to be bad. Fact is that there are way more shades of grey than there are extremes (which are good and bad obviously).

EDIT: Oh shit, there are posts I didn't notice. :=

EDIT:

@brendan_pr: I agree with your long post about relationships. People are like that.

@Sub: Well, currently I don't want a long term relationship either way so it doesn't matter much to me. Obviously I should consider whether a girl who left her boyfriend for me is trustworthy. As I said, it doesn't really matter much to me as I'm not looking for anything serious.

@brendan_pr (again): Sub is right. As a matter of fact, I can name several active people here at the forum that I wouldn't call nerds. Those include winkio, me, Sub, Niche, etc. I used to have a saying for myself: "I'm not a programmer who gets girls. I'm a seducer who can program." xD I mean, I'm not pulling this stuff out of my ass after all. I'm basing it on experience. The difference between reading something or talking about something and actually going through it is huge.
And I don't think we're classifying love here. We're just talking about relationships, stealing girlfriends and shit. xD I think I'll move this into ID.
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Quote from: winkioI do not speak to bricks, either as individuals or in wall form.

Quote from: Barney StinsonWhen I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

SBR*

You convinced me. Although it's not a thing I would personally do, I respect and somewhat agree with your opinion. Thank you for this insight :).

Blizzard

January 06, 2012, 01:23:17 pm #28 Last Edit: January 06, 2012, 01:26:03 pm by Blizzard
I am glad that I enriched your perspective a bit. :) As I already said, it's your choice what you want to believe in. I am just offering you another perspective here. It wouldn't be the first time that I made people realize a few things and they actually changed their view on the world after that. (Note that it wasn't me who changed it, I merely offered them some perspective.)
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Quote from: winkioI do not speak to bricks, either as individuals or in wall form.

Quote from: Barney StinsonWhen I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

Subsonic_Noise

Quote from: Blizzard on January 06, 2012, 12:39:31 pm
@Sub: Well, currently I don't want a long term relationship either way so it doesn't matter much to me. Obviously I should consider whether a girl who left her boyfriend for me is trustworthy. As I said, it doesn't really matter much to me as I'm not looking for anything serious.

And there is finally the reason why these dicussions between us never work XD Good we sorted that out.

Blizzard

Speak for yourself. I always learn something from them. xD
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Quote from: winkioI do not speak to bricks, either as individuals or in wall form.

Quote from: Barney StinsonWhen I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

Subsonic_Noise

Quote from: Blizzard on January 06, 2012, 02:58:14 pm
Speak for yourself. I always learn something from them. xD

I was more saying, why we'd never got to an agreement. :P But yeah, knowing that you'd act differently if you would be looking for something serious, that makes alot of the other things more acceptable for me. :P

SBR*

Actually, that makes it a bit 'worse': a girlfriend cancels her perfectly fine relationship, which otherwise might've lasted very long, to get into a short-termed relationship with you.

The Niche

Quote from: Blizzard on January 06, 2012, 12:39:31 pm
@brendan_pr (again): Sub is right. As a matter of fact, I can name several active people here at the forum that I wouldn't call nerds. Those include winkio, me, Sub, Niche, etc.


<3 Egoboost acquired :D

Anyway, I'mma have to take Blizzard's side here. But not quite. When I met my girlfriend, I was kinda depressed. One of my closest friends had just gotten into a relationship and my two significant crushes were in relationships. But my girlfriend was in a relationship as well when I met her, so what was the difference? With the first two cases, the boyfriends are both my friends. And the last, I'd never met the guy. So that's when I'd consider it acceptable.

The other thing was that I was fuck depressed, lonely as shit and bored out of my mind. She has a boyfriend? That's nice, I hope he finds someone else soon. As it turns out, he did - her best friend xD
Level me down, I'm trying to become the anti-blizz!
Quote from: winkio on June 15, 2011, 07:30:23 pm
Ah, excellent.  You liked my amusing sideshow, yes?  I'm just a simple fool, my wit entertains the wise, and my wisdom fools the fools.



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Blizzard

Quote from: SBR* on January 06, 2012, 03:41:55 pm
Actually, that makes it a bit 'worse': a girlfriend cancels her perfectly fine relationship, which otherwise might've lasted very long, to get into a short-termed relationship with you.


Not necessarily. I already said that girls are better at keeping this stuff secret. She just continues her relationship as if nothing ever happened. In her mind it was "my fault", remember?
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Quote from: winkioI do not speak to bricks, either as individuals or in wall form.

Quote from: Barney StinsonWhen I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

SBR*

Quote from: Blizzard on January 06, 2012, 09:07:05 pm
Not necessarily. I already said that girls are better at keeping this stuff secret. She just continues her relationship as if nothing ever happened. In her mind it was "my fault", remember?


"Cheating is for weakwilled wusses." IMO, that means that both have responsibility for this.

I know I said you convinced me, but some things still bug me. For instance, the ex is left alone with a broken heart -this is, if the relationship is long-lasting. If you had never seduced her, he wouldn't have had a broken heart.

Blizzard

January 07, 2012, 07:00:07 am #36 Last Edit: January 07, 2012, 07:02:13 am by Blizzard
Quote from: SBR* on January 07, 2012, 04:29:32 am
"Cheating is for weakwilled wusses." IMO, that means that both have responsibility for this.


I know that it takes two. If she is denying her part of the responsibility, that's not my problem. I personally would never cheat on a girlfriend.

Quote from: SBR* on January 07, 2012, 04:29:32 am
I know I said you convinced me, but some things still bug me. For instance, the ex is left alone with a broken heart -this is, if the relationship is long-lasting. If you had never seduced her, he wouldn't have had a broken heart.


Most people wouldn't pay attention to my feelings either and possibly try to seduce my girlfriend anyway as well. I don't feel obliged to do anybody any favors, especially the ones hypocrites I mentioned earlier that "believe in not stealing girlfriends". (Obviously I would never steal a girlfriend from a friend or somebody I know that I know that he's a decent guy.) They should have paid more attention to their girlfriend. If they can't keep their girlfriend, they should first blame themselves and then maybe me and/or her. If they had "done their job right", I wouldn't have been able to seduce their girlfriend in the first place.

Life isn't fair, it's the survival of the fittest. Deal with it. That's how I see things. Yes, for me it comes down to something as simple as that.
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Quote from: winkioI do not speak to bricks, either as individuals or in wall form.

Quote from: Barney StinsonWhen I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

Subsonic_Noise

Well, my girlfriend used to have a boyfriend too, but he was abusive and pretty much at the mental level of a degenerated monkey.
Also fuck you I'll have my double-standards.

SBR*

Blizz, that seems pretty selfish and egocentric to me. Indeed, it takes two and it's pretty selfish to say that if she denies her part of the responsibility, you do too. You seem to be morally against cheating and hypocrisy, but right now it seems like you're hypocrite yourself.

If she leaves her boyfriend for somebody else, it doesn't necessarily mean he didn't do his job right - at least, I think so. It just means that she would prefer you to her current boyfriend. She would've been happy with her current boyfriend, but she -believes- she would be more happy with you. Is it really worth it to break somebody's heart for this small amount of extra joy?
It in fact is possible to make somebody prefer you to her boy friend: by pulling of psychological tricks and thus manipulating.

I don't have any evidence of this; it's based on stories I've heard and my experience in life.

Quote from: brendan_pr on January 06, 2012, 12:27:13 pm
If you really like the girl there is not much you can do about it but the other guy might like her just as much so it really becomes her choice. But there are many fish in the sea and I don't see why you would choose to go after someone who is already taken. so you would have to really like this person for that to be worth it and for that you need to know the person

Completely agreed. There's no need to break his heart.

Quote from: Blizzard on January 07, 2012, 07:00:07 am
Life isn't fair, it's the survival of the fittest. Deal with it. That's how I see things. Yes, for me it comes down to something as simple as that.

That's the most lame excuse I've ever heard. Honestly. We are civilized beings and there's no need to harm one another to 'survive', while there are alternatives.

Blizzard

January 07, 2012, 09:50:46 am #39 Last Edit: January 07, 2012, 10:03:05 am by Blizzard
Quote from: SBR* on January 07, 2012, 07:58:49 am
You seem to be morally against cheating and hypocrisy, but right now it seems like you're hypocrite yourself.


You are taking out of context what I said. I said that I wouldn't cheat my girlfriend. It's not my problem what other people do.

Quote from: SBR* on January 07, 2012, 07:58:49 am
Blizz, that seems pretty selfish and egocentric to me.


You are saying it as if being selfish is a bad thing. If you put other people before yourself your whole life, you will never be happy and you will always be walked on. If you are doing well, you can give them world back a lot more than if you keep yourself barely surviving and giving away your last bit of almost nothing. Be selfish to be able to be generous.
Maybe one day you will realize that. Most people never do.

People don't want my help, I don't force them. If that makes me egocentric, so be it.

Quote from: SBR* on January 07, 2012, 07:58:49 am
Indeed, it takes two and it's pretty selfish to say that if she denies her part of the responsibility, you do too.


I never even once denied my part in that. Read my posts again. I only said that it's not my problem if she denies her part. I accept my responsibility from the beginning to the end. Whether she does the same is none of my concern.

Quote from: SBR* on January 07, 2012, 07:58:49 am
If she leaves her boyfriend for somebody else, it doesn't necessarily mean he didn't do his job right - at least, I think so. It just means that she would prefer you to her current boyfriend. She would've been happy with her current boyfriend, but she -believes- she would be more happy with you. Is it really worth it to break somebody's heart for this small amount of extra joy?


"Doing his job right" means being a good person and a good boyfriend. If he did that right, I wouldn't have been able to take away his girlfriend. It's that simple.
I never give women the illusion that they will have a relationship with me if I don't want a relationship. I tell them that I am not looking for anything serious. If she "believes" that she will be happier with me than her boyfriend, then she has a serious problem with listening to what other people are saying. If she can't accept what I am telling her, that's not my problem. I don't make false promises that I am not willing to keep.

Quote from: SBR* on January 07, 2012, 07:58:49 am
It in fact is possible to make somebody prefer you to her boy friend: by pulling of psychological tricks and thus manipulating.
I don't have any evidence of this; it's based on stories I've heard and my experience in life.


What does that have to do with me? I don't manipulate, I seduce. Manipulation implies that I am using her to gain something from her. I don't do that. I give and I receive pleasure. It's a mutual gain. Besides, manipulation is a two-way road. It's easy to manipulate somebody who's trying to manipulate you by simply baiting them to do something in order to gain what they are trying to gain from you. You can't be manipulated during a "normal" seduction process, because these manipulation attempts are being cut off in the very beginning.

Quote from: SBR* on January 07, 2012, 07:58:49 am
That's the most lame excuse I've ever heard.


Your problem.

Quote from: SBR* on January 07, 2012, 07:58:49 am
Honestly. We are civilized beings and there's no need to harm one another to 'survive', while there are alternatives.


Look at the world how civilized we are: We are being brainwashed on a daily basis by TV. There are tons of wars in the world. People lie, cheat, steal, kill and do god-knows-what on a daily basis. Civilization is a mere illusion. Humans are just a bit more than savage animals. Most people barely make an actual conscious choice their whole lives. All they do from day to day is just follow what their emotions force them to do, never stopping and wondering whether this is really what they want and whether this really gives them peace or happiness.
People are unhappy, because the complicate things unnecessarily. Why do you think it's called a "complex" and not a "simplex"?

I am by no means a saint. But at least I am honest to myself about it and I accept it instead of being a hypocrite my whole life.
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Quote from: winkioI do not speak to bricks, either as individuals or in wall form.

Quote from: Barney StinsonWhen I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

SBR*

January 07, 2012, 10:01:26 am #40 Last Edit: January 07, 2012, 10:04:03 am by SBR*
I figure we'll never agree, so shall we leave it at this? I'd like to thank you again; it's always good to know other's reasonings and opinions :).

EDIT: You ninja-edited your post :). Good point. But would you want to have a long-lasting relationship with a person that changes relationships that easily?

Blizzard

January 07, 2012, 10:02:42 am #41 Last Edit: January 07, 2012, 10:05:06 am by Blizzard
I'm not trying to agree. :P I was correcting some misconceptions and giving you some more insight.
Oh, BTW, I actually edited my post in the meanwhile and added something at the bottom.

EDIT: Meh, I'm taking it out and putting it here.

I see that your way of thinking comes from a mediocrity and a scarcity mentality.
If you can be "hurt" by somebody cheating on you, then you are emotionally dependent on that person. You don't love yourself enough for it to be enough so you "need" the love of another human being in order to fill a non-existent void.
When you get to the point where cheating does not hurt and maybe that you don't even get angry, but you are disappointed in that person for abusing your trust like that, then you're doing it right.

It comes back to the huge difference between being alone and being lonely.
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Quote from: winkioI do not speak to bricks, either as individuals or in wall form.

Quote from: Barney StinsonWhen I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

SBR*

January 07, 2012, 10:05:01 am #42 Last Edit: January 08, 2012, 11:54:39 am by SBR*
Well, I just ninja-edited you. I've taken my revenge :).

The Niche

Quote from: Subsonic_Noise on January 07, 2012, 07:36:33 am
Well, my girlfriend used to have a boyfriend too, but he was abusive and pretty much at the mental level of a degenerated monkey.


Tino, don't understate. That's bold.
Level me down, I'm trying to become the anti-blizz!
Quote from: winkio on June 15, 2011, 07:30:23 pm
Ah, excellent.  You liked my amusing sideshow, yes?  I'm just a simple fool, my wit entertains the wise, and my wisdom fools the fools.



I'm like the bible, widely hated and beautifully quotable.

Dropbox is this way, not any other way!