SPLIT OFF: Love, and shit like that.

[brendan_pr]

You're making it seem like it's normal if a girl jumps from relation to relation all the time, while I think it's actually the opposite.

No, not all the time. As I said, a girl could be a few years in a relationship and then jump to the next one when something better comes along.
I don't judge them for that, it's just the way they are. That's what experience has shown me and I accept it the way it is. Heck, it often even works to my advantage.

that might be how it works out with girls sometimes. but that is also what guys do too if they are not happy. either way it might be the "human" thing to do, giving in to your emotions, but it doesn't mean it's the "right" thing to do. you are still a pretty horrible person if you lead someone on for years like that. especially if you go about it messy which is almost inevitable in that situation




im not saying that they should lock them up and throw away the key but unless it is to get out of an abusive relationship (and that has it's own set of problems) there is no possible scenario where you "jump to someone else because they are better" and not be a total immature jerk


"we have reached a point where we both want something else and agree as adults" not "theres this person who is better than you and so yeah"........ this is assuming you are actually having an adult relationship




but honestly if the relationship was that one sided that the girl is actually pursuing plans to find someone better then it probably wasn't going to work out in the first place. i'm realistic enough to admit that everyone thinks about what it would be like to be with someone else. i am of the opinion that if you really love each other you can clear those thoughts and get over them, not pursue them






edit: also i find it pretty hilarious here we are a bunch of super nerds trying to talk about and classify "love" 

[brendan_pr]

ooops double post sorry

[Subsonic_Noise]

This discussion is irrelevant because there is noone better than me.
:V?

edit: also i find it pretty hilarious here we are a bunch of super nerds trying to talk about and classify "love"

I don't see the part that makes us super nerds. And even if we were, I don't see how that makes us unqualified to talk about love.

To add something to this, basically what it comes down to with this is personal opinion. While me and brandan (I assume) wouldn't want to be with a girl like that, Boris probably would, and there's nothing wrong with that. Neither of both is really "right", because it comes down to morals, and those are not something universal.

[Blizzard]

I get your point, but I still disagree with you . I might be assuming what point B is like, but IMO this is so fundamental that it can't change, but, indeed, even that is what I assume. Though, now I'm seeing it a bit more loosely. I wouldn't do it myself, because IMO you would be breaking an other man's heart, just because you want THAT woman.

That's completely fine and I respect that. Just stick to your belief and you will be fine. If you ever change your belief, stick to the new one. That's the only thing that matters.

I think you misread my post too . I don't find him an asshole because he's famous. That doesn't matter to me whatsoever. The problem is that at first she wasn't interested in him; she was having a perfectly fine relationship. He, on the other hand, refused to give up and, ultimately, she fell for him.

I see. Well, I still wouldn't label him an asshole for doing that. I would only label him an asshole if he left her afterwards or cheated on her. If he stayed with her all the way, he may as well be the "good guy" in a movie who fell in love with a girl that already had a boyfriend and over time she fell for him. People never hate the "good guy", lol! As I said, it's a matter of perspective.

The difference is the amount of effort put into it. In case 1, the famous man had to push her to do it, while in case 2, it was love at first sight and from the beginning, she had decided she would leave her boyfriend for the other guy.

First: You can't really push people into doing things that they don't want to (except with force and threats and that shit), you can only push them into doing something they wanted to do in the first place, but they simply didn't do it because of various reasons (wrong moral values, excuses, afraid of others being judgmental, etc.).

Second: It's still a loophole that allows you to go against your beliefs: "It's ok to steal a girlfriend if it's not too much effort, but otherwise it's not ok." Either you do it or you don't. If you decide at one point somebody's not worth the effort, because it's taking too long, then your original belief was that you would steal a girlfriend and you decided after a while to give up. The original belief was not that you wouldn't steal a girlfriend. Circumstances have nothing to do with what you believe in. Otherwise it would mean that you would steal a girlfriend only under the right circumstances, right? And that is hypocritical, because apparently you don't believe in "not stealing" them. See my point now?
Also, there is a significant difference here in the structure of the beliefs. Believing in "not stealing" forbids you any kind of stealing under any circumstance while believing in "stealing" allows you to act upon judgment. If you think she's worth the time, you can do it. If not, screw it. I generally find it fascinating that people would rather stick to the forbidding belief that is considered "good" and "high moral" or whatever and break it from time to time than going all the way and sticking to the other belief even if it may be judged by others. Ironically enough, people will only look up to you that you have the courage to stick to what you really believe in regardless of what everybody else or society says.

I remember somebody telling me recently how he was messing around with a girl that had a boyfriend. They didn't have sex, they didn't even kiss each other yet, but there was sexual tension between them. He's saying that he generally wouldn't do it. But if he would truly believe in not stealing girlfriends, he would have stayed away from her in the first place. He isn't sure about his beliefs, that's why he pushed the whole thing so far. He was basically about to have sex with her. He's realized that and currently he's trying to figure out what he wants to believe in.

[brendan_pr]

If you really like the girl there is not much you can do about it but the other guy might like her just as much so it really becomes her choice. But there are many fish in the sea and I don't see why you would choose to go after someone who is already taken. so you would have to really like this person for that to be worth it and for that you need to know the person

[SBR*]

Hmmm... I see. Well, the thing is, I don't think case 2 is 'stealing'. IMO, stealing is 'forcefully' (not literally) taking, thus putting effort into it. You step up to her and do your pick-up line things, whatever the heck you do, and she 'immediately' falls in love with you; she already has decided to leave her boyfriend for you. That's the girl's primary choice.

But I'm repeating myself now. I figured that I was confusing some things. The fact that I found him an asshole, probably was partially due to the fact that my father knows the ex. Though, I'm not sure if this is true.

"It's ok to steal a girlfriend if it's not too much effort, but otherwise it's not ok."

In this case, effort =/= trouble. With effort, I mean the persuasion and convincing of the girl, in which the girl is the keyword. I'm sorry if I was unclear .

EDIT: I'd also like to note that I respect your opinion too, Blizz. One 'bad' thing - in my point of view, at least - doesn't make someone good or bad, after all.

[Blizzard]

"It's ok to steal a girlfriend if it's not too much effort, but otherwise it's not ok."

In this case, effort =/= trouble. With effort, I mean the persuasion and convincing of the girl, in which the girl is the keyword. I'm sorry if I was unclear .

LMAO! Now I know that you're totally on the wrong track. You can't convince or persuade a girl to love you, women don't work that way. That is completely impossible. I know that this is an absolute statement, but I know it's true.

Hmmm... I see. Well, the thing is, I don't think case 2 is 'stealing'. IMO, stealing is 'forcefully' (not literally) taking, thus putting effort into it. You step up to her and do your pick-up line things, whatever the heck you do, and she 'immediately' falls in love with you; she already has decided to leave her boyfriend for you. That's the girl's primary choice.

That's just an illusion. There are no magical pickup lines that do all the work for you. You do have control over whether she falls in love with you or not to an extent, but this still isn't up to you in the end. And besides, it's a process. Falling in love doesn't happen in 5 seconds.
If she loved her boyfriend really, she wouldn't cheat. If you are better than her boyfriend, chances are high that she will cheat, especially if she has fallen in love with you more than she is with her boyfriend. At that point she already wants it and it's just up to you to decide whether you want it and take it all the way. Obviously you can't do that with logic either, you can't convince her. She'll keep lying to herself that she's faithful and she will blame you afterwards. "It's your fault, you knew she had a boyfriend!" That's bullshit, it takes two and she's just rationalizing her part to get rid of the responsibility. Of course, I personally couldn't care less how she handles it. If she didn't want to do it, she wouldn't have done it. That's when I realized the world is full of hypocrites. >.< I probably am still a hypocrite myself to an extent, but I am working on making it smaller and smaller.

EDIT: I'd also like to note that I respect your opinion too, Blizz. One 'bad' thing - in my point of view, at least - doesn't make someone good or bad, after all.

Yeah, good and bad are just perspectives after all. Something that society views as bad doesn't necessarily have to be bad. Fact is that there are way more shades of grey than there are extremes (which are good and bad obviously).

EDIT: Oh shit, there are posts I didn't notice. :=

EDIT:

@brendan_pr: I agree with your long post about relationships. People are like that.

@Sub: Well, currently I don't want a long term relationship either way so it doesn't matter much to me. Obviously I should consider whether a girl who left her boyfriend for me is trustworthy. As I said, it doesn't really matter much to me as I'm not looking for anything serious.

@brendan_pr (again): Sub is right. As a matter of fact, I can name several active people here at the forum that I wouldn't call nerds. Those include winkio, me, Sub, Niche, etc. I used to have a saying for myself: "I'm not a programmer who gets girls. I'm a seducer who can program." xD I mean, I'm not pulling this stuff out of my ass after all. I'm basing it on experience. The difference between reading something or talking about something and actually going through it is huge.
And I don't think we're classifying love here. We're just talking about relationships, stealing girlfriends and shit. xD I think I'll move this into ID.

[SBR*]

You convinced me. Although it's not a thing I would personally do, I respect and somewhat agree with your opinion. Thank you for this insight .

[Blizzard]

I am glad that I enriched your perspective a bit. As I already said, it's your choice what you want to believe in. I am just offering you another perspective here. It wouldn't be the first time that I made people realize a few things and they actually changed their view on the world after that. (Note that it wasn't me who changed it, I merely offered them some perspective.)

[Subsonic_Noise]

@Sub: Well, currently I don't want a long term relationship either way so it doesn't matter much to me. Obviously I should consider whether a girl who left her boyfriend for me is trustworthy. As I said, it doesn't really matter much to me as I'm not looking for anything serious.

And there is finally the reason why these dicussions between us never work XD Good we sorted that out.

[Blizzard]

Speak for yourself. I always learn something from them. xD

[Subsonic_Noise]

Speak for yourself. I always learn something from them. xD

I was more saying, why we'd never got to an agreement. But yeah, knowing that you'd act differently if you would be looking for something serious, that makes alot of the other things more acceptable for me.

[SBR*]

Actually, that makes it a bit 'worse': a girlfriend cancels her perfectly fine relationship, which otherwise might've lasted very long, to get into a short-termed relationship with you.

[The Niche]

@brendan_pr (again): Sub is right. As a matter of fact, I can name several active people here at the forum that I wouldn't call nerds. Those include winkio, me, Sub, Niche, etc.

<3 Egoboost acquired

Anyway, I'mma have to take Blizzard's side here. But not quite. When I met my girlfriend, I was kinda depressed. One of my closest friends had just gotten into a relationship and my two significant crushes were in relationships. But my girlfriend was in a relationship as well when I met her, so what was the difference? With the first two cases, the boyfriends are both my friends. And the last, I'd never met the guy. So that's when I'd consider it acceptable.

The other thing was that I was fuck depressed, lonely as shit and bored out of my mind. She has a boyfriend? That's nice, I hope he finds someone else soon. As it turns out, he did - her best friend xD

[Blizzard]

Actually, that makes it a bit 'worse': a girlfriend cancels her perfectly fine relationship, which otherwise might've lasted very long, to get into a short-termed relationship with you.

Not necessarily. I already said that girls are better at keeping this stuff secret. She just continues her relationship as if nothing ever happened. In her mind it was "my fault", remember?

[SBR*]

Not necessarily. I already said that girls are better at keeping this stuff secret. She just continues her relationship as if nothing ever happened. In her mind it was "my fault", remember?

"Cheating is for weakwilled wusses." IMO, that means that both have responsibility for this.

I know I said you convinced me, but some things still bug me. For instance, the ex is left alone with a broken heart -this is, if the relationship is long-lasting. If you had never seduced her, he wouldn't have had a broken heart.

[Blizzard]

"Cheating is for weakwilled wusses." IMO, that means that both have responsibility for this.

I know that it takes two. If she is denying her part of the responsibility, that's not my problem. I personally would never cheat on a girlfriend.

I know I said you convinced me, but some things still bug me. For instance, the ex is left alone with a broken heart -this is, if the relationship is long-lasting. If you had never seduced her, he wouldn't have had a broken heart.

Most people wouldn't pay attention to my feelings either and possibly try to seduce my girlfriend anyway as well. I don't feel obliged to do anybody any favors, especially the ones hypocrites I mentioned earlier that "believe in not stealing girlfriends". (Obviously I would never steal a girlfriend from a friend or somebody I know that I know that he's a decent guy.) They should have paid more attention to their girlfriend. If they can't keep their girlfriend, they should first blame themselves and then maybe me and/or her. If they had "done their job right", I wouldn't have been able to seduce their girlfriend in the first place.

Life isn't fair, it's the survival of the fittest. Deal with it. That's how I see things. Yes, for me it comes down to something as simple as that.

[Subsonic_Noise]

Well, my girlfriend used to have a boyfriend too, but he was abusive and pretty much at the mental level of a degenerated monkey.
Also fuck you I'll have my double-standards.

[SBR*]

Blizz, that seems pretty selfish and egocentric to me. Indeed, it takes two and it's pretty selfish to say that if she denies her part of the responsibility, you do too. You seem to be morally against cheating and hypocrisy, but right now it seems like you're hypocrite yourself.

If she leaves her boyfriend for somebody else, it doesn't necessarily mean he didn't do his job right - at least, I think so. It just means that she would prefer you to her current boyfriend. She would've been happy with her current boyfriend, but she -believes- she would be more happy with you. Is it really worth it to break somebody's heart for this small amount of extra joy?
It in fact is possible to make somebody prefer you to her boy friend: by pulling of psychological tricks and thus manipulating.
I don't have any evidence of this; it's based on stories I've heard and my experience in life.

If you really like the girl there is not much you can do about it but the other guy might like her just as much so it really becomes her choice. But there are many fish in the sea and I don't see why you would choose to go after someone who is already taken. so you would have to really like this person for that to be worth it and for that you need to know the person

Completely agreed. There's no need to break his heart.

Life isn't fair, it's the survival of the fittest. Deal with it. That's how I see things. Yes, for me it comes down to something as simple as that.

That's the most lame excuse I've ever heard. Honestly. We are civilized beings and there's no need to harm one another to 'survive', while there are alternatives.

[Blizzard]

You seem to be morally against cheating and hypocrisy, but right now it seems like you're hypocrite yourself.

You are taking out of context what I said. I said that I wouldn't cheat my girlfriend. It's not my problem what other people do.

Blizz, that seems pretty selfish and egocentric to me.

You are saying it as if being selfish is a bad thing. If you put other people before yourself your whole life, you will never be happy and you will always be walked on. If you are doing well, you can give them world back a lot more than if you keep yourself barely surviving and giving away your last bit of almost nothing. Be selfish to be able to be generous.
Maybe one day you will realize that. Most people never do.

People don't want my help, I don't force them. If that makes me egocentric, so be it.

Indeed, it takes two and it's pretty selfish to say that if she denies her part of the responsibility, you do too.

I never even once denied my part in that. Read my posts again. I only said that it's not my problem if she denies her part. I accept my responsibility from the beginning to the end. Whether she does the same is none of my concern.

If she leaves her boyfriend for somebody else, it doesn't necessarily mean he didn't do his job right - at least, I think so. It just means that she would prefer you to her current boyfriend. She would've been happy with her current boyfriend, but she -believes- she would be more happy with you. Is it really worth it to break somebody's heart for this small amount of extra joy?

"Doing his job right" means being a good person and a good boyfriend. If he did that right, I wouldn't have been able to take away his girlfriend. It's that simple.
I never give women the illusion that they will have a relationship with me if I don't want a relationship. I tell them that I am not looking for anything serious. If she "believes" that she will be happier with me than her boyfriend, then she has a serious problem with listening to what other people are saying. If she can't accept what I am telling her, that's not my problem. I don't make false promises that I am not willing to keep.

It in fact is possible to make somebody prefer you to her boy friend: by pulling of psychological tricks and thus manipulating.
I don't have any evidence of this; it's based on stories I've heard and my experience in life.

What does that have to do with me? I don't manipulate, I seduce. Manipulation implies that I am using her to gain something from her. I don't do that. I give and I receive pleasure. It's a mutual gain. Besides, manipulation is a two-way road. It's easy to manipulate somebody who's trying to manipulate you by simply baiting them to do something in order to gain what they are trying to gain from you. You can't be manipulated during a "normal" seduction process, because these manipulation attempts are being cut off in the very beginning.

That's the most lame excuse I've ever heard.

Your problem.

Honestly. We are civilized beings and there's no need to harm one another to 'survive', while there are alternatives.

Look at the world how civilized we are: We are being brainwashed on a daily basis by TV. There are tons of wars in the world. People lie, cheat, steal, kill and do god-knows-what on a daily basis. Civilization is a mere illusion. Humans are just a bit more than savage animals. Most people barely make an actual conscious choice their whole lives. All they do from day to day is just follow what their emotions force them to do, never stopping and wondering whether this is really what they want and whether this really gives them peace or happiness.
People are unhappy, because the complicate things unnecessarily. Why do you think it's called a "complex" and not a "simplex"?

I am by no means a saint. But at least I am honest to myself about it and I accept it instead of being a hypocrite my whole life.