Make the NSA stop watching us

Started by Blizzard, June 19, 2013, 03:35:02 am

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Blizzard

I believe that any words on the issue are unnecessary. As you probably know, we are being watched by the NSA at all times, even non-US citizen. Sign this petition that will be sent to the congress to make them stop. They have no right to invade our privacy.

https://optin.stopwatching.us

I'll finish this post with my favorite quote in this context.

Quote from: Benjamin FranklinThose who surrender freedom for security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.
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Quote from: winkioI do not speak to bricks, either as individuals or in wall form.

Quote from: Barney StinsonWhen I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

Lobstrosity

The invasion of privacy is concerning. However, will this petition actually do anything to stop it? I've just accepted that I have no privacy and there's nothing I can really do about it.
Don't come any closer. I'm armed... with SCIENCE!

Blizzard

It takes half a minute and it has a real chance of making a difference. If you don't sign, there is a 100% chance that it won't make a difference.
Petitions worked for SOPA, PIPA and ACTA, so obviously the voice of the people can be heard if it is loud enough.
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Quote from: winkioI do not speak to bricks, either as individuals or in wall form.

Quote from: Barney StinsonWhen I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

Zexion

signed, I hate spying b1tches... but don't be fooled...every big country does it not just USA

Blizzard

Of course they do. The core problem here is that the NSA spies on non-US citizen without reason which is unacceptable to me.
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Quote from: winkioI do not speak to bricks, either as individuals or in wall form.

Quote from: Barney StinsonWhen I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

G_G

Signed. This is beyond unacceptable.

SBR*

Sure, I agree that it is wrong that they invade our 'privacy', but to be honest, I don't care if some random American dude who is not interested in my personal affairs and files whatsoever is able to look at my files. Have fun watching my files that are meaningless to you, fool. Basically, I think this should be stopped, but I can't really get angry about it or anything like that.

Zexion

I'm not saying that it's right, but I think people have the wrong idea. They spy on people as a matter of national security, to prevent shoot outs, bombings, etc. they don't really care about anyone and their personal life. I know if I wasn't American and they were spying on me I would be outraged too, but the simple fact is, if you are a normal person or even wierd in some way you will be fine. They only target threats to the country! You might think they have no business spying, but when you've had as many terrorists come do something as the US has, I think it's only fair we put our guard up!

Am I drunk? :v

winkio

There are numerous problems with your theory.  First, if all this information was compromised, either by a rouge employee or an outside hacking attack, it could be very powerful and dangerous to whoever chose to use it.  Second, with the amount of information they are gathering, they can destroy the lives of anybody they chose to target, including innocent people.  This means that if you make it onto a government watchlist, by being middle eastern or by attending a peaceful protest for example, you are completely at the mercy of the government.  There is no way you can make a case for your innocence because the government can pick and choose the worst bits of information from your entire life to paint you as a terrible person.  Since they control all the information, you will only ever get the story they present to you.

Now, is there any way to actually end this program?  No.  Until they target a large portion of the American population, signed petitions and news coverage will not be enough to do anything about it.  In fact, the US government is only likely to be more invasive in the future, as the standard of living is so high here that the small number of protesters and activists go unnoticed by the population, and the media has decided no to cover them.  The protest movement is so small that they could literally disappear off the face of the earth in their entirety, and 90% of the country would never have even known who they were.  Honestly, things will probably stay this way unless we experience another financial meltdown that is too big for the government to inflate us out of.

Zexion

I really hate what the government is doing D: they are not only ruining America, but the whole world aswell!

Blizzard

winkio already summed it up very well, I have nothing more to add.
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Quote from: winkioI do not speak to bricks, either as individuals or in wall form.

Quote from: Barney StinsonWhen I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

Lobstrosity

That's enough to get me to sign. But the thing is, we won't know for sure that they've stopped watching us even if this petition does go through.
Don't come any closer. I'm armed... with SCIENCE!

Heretic86

Quote from: SBR* on June 20, 2013, 12:31:36 pm
Sure, I agree that it is wrong that they invade our 'privacy', but to be honest, I don't care if some random American dude who is not interested in my personal affairs and files whatsoever is able to look at my files. Have fun watching my files that are meaningless to you, fool. Basically, I think this should be stopped, but I can't really get angry about it or anything like that.


Right and Wrong are Subjective Terms.  It has nothing to do with Right and Wrong.  For there to exist a Conflict, all that needs to exist is a Difference of Opinion.

Now, if you don't care about Privacy at all, then please publicly post your Bank Account Number as well as your PIN Number, all of your Passwords to every account you have, your SSN (for US folks), and every shred of information you consider to be Private.  Please also place a Public Webcam in every room in your home, including your Bathroom and your Shower.
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PhoenixFire

Quote from: Subsonic_Noise on July 01, 2011, 02:42:19 amNext off, how to create a first person shooter using microsoft excel.

Quote from: Zeriab on September 09, 2011, 02:58:58 pm<Remember when computers had turbo buttons?

Spaceman McConaughey

December 19, 2013, 10:36:20 pm #14 Last Edit: December 19, 2013, 10:40:25 pm by Colonel Blinx
Quote from: Heretic86 on December 19, 2013, 06:52:23 pm
Now, if you don't care about Privacy at all, then please publicly post your Bank Account Number as well as your PIN Number, all of your Passwords to every account you have, your SSN (for US folks), and every shred of information you consider to be Private.  Please also place a Public Webcam in every room in your home, including your Bathroom and your Shower.


.-.

You're over-thinking it way too much with that one.
He just doesn't care that a bunch of agents possibly (possibly being a key word, because they can not monitor every person) monitor him, is all.

Following your logic, do you have any idea how stupid it'd be to publicly post all of that information?
There are plenty, and I mean plenty of dicks on the internet that'd do way worse with it than the NSA ever would.
So, really, your post is an example of over-thinking-it backfiring.

Anyways, that said, I'm not for the NSA. In fact, I'm against them, however I found your post to be a bit dumb.
Just because someone doesn't give a fuck, they shouldn't be expected to share their personal information with the many douchey blackhats on the internet because you give more fucks than said person.

Jesus Christ.

Blizzard

December 20, 2013, 01:57:09 am #15 Last Edit: December 20, 2013, 02:00:00 am by Blizzard
Quote from: DigitalSoul on December 19, 2013, 10:25:49 pm
Quote from: Heretic86 on December 19, 2013, 06:52:23 pm
...including your Bathroom and your Shower.


:naughty: :naughty:


:naughty:

EDIT: I agree with Branden. This is simply extrapolating what he said. Just because he doesn't care being monitored, doesn't mean he doesn't care about his private information at all. It would be like saying just because someone is for abortion, that they are also for murdering others.
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Quote from: winkioI do not speak to bricks, either as individuals or in wall form.

Quote from: Barney StinsonWhen I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

Heretic86

True.

I cant and shouldnt be able to decide what others do with that kind of information.  The thing is, they shouldnt be able to decide those things for me either.  But its really a double edged sword. 

Privacy Laws werent written with the intent of protecting Criminals from the Law, however, that can be one of the unintended consequences of such laws.  Laws were intended to protect people from the abuses of others.  The Hollocaust where millions of Jews were murdered for their faith may not have occured if the Germans were both respectful of a persons privacy (yeah, right), and people were more protective of that kind of information.  Hindsight is always 20 20 I guess.  But being Jewish is one of those examples where it isnt Right or Wrong, but due to the Difference of Opinion, has the potential to become a source of conflict.

The outright genocide of Jews is unlikely to occur again.  But what may happen is the genocide of people with other types of beliefs.  During World War 2, the US rounded up a lot of Japanese people for being Japanese, and stuck them in Internment Camps.  There was no real crime other than being born to a Japanese heritage.  Jewish and Japanese alike are both Human Beings.  But what happens next time, when instead of being Jewish or Japanese as a basis for conflict, other information is used to coerce individuals?  What happens if during an election, the "Wrong Candidate" is voted for?  Should those people ever be rounded up?

The thing is, too many people take this personal approach to privacy.  Those kinds of laws are also designed to protect a Society as a whole, not just the individual.  The abuses of privacy we can see already often have political motivations being used as a reason to violate the rights of an individual, which, when done enough, determines the outcome of the society as a whole.  The extreme overreach of the NSA and other spy organizations for many countries to me show a disturbing trend.  Countries dont have any respect for the individual.  If there are people they feel need to be observed, there have long existed legal methods for monitoring specific individuals.  Those methods are done with the due process of law.  Get a warrant.  If they were to do that, I'd have much less of an issue with what goes on.

Say a mining company places an order for a bunch of explosives.  Well, those explosives are probably going to be used for purpose of mining.  Not very suspicious.  But if a postal worker comes along and tries to place an order for a volume of explosives that exceeds what a mining company would use, thats flat out suspicious, probable cause, and a valid reason to issue a warrant and monitor that individual.  Paying for a candy bar in cash at a convenience store to me is not a valid reason.

People need privacy in order to grow in whatever direction they see fit.  When others know everything, what they read, what they say, what they learn, what they aspire to be, they can change that direction.  When a society is directed to grow in the direction that is demanded by others, you end up with a society that does not grow itself naturally, and often only grows in the direction that benefits by those that dictate that direction.  The ability to change the direction of a society is dependant on the ability to monitor every individual.  Thus, people need to stop thinking about privacy only in regards to themselves, but how it will affect how they are permitted to communicate and interact with everyone else.

When an individual is under constant surveillance, that individual is no longer free.  When an entire society is under constant and total surveillance, that society can no longer be considered "democratic" in any way shape or form.
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ForeverZer0

I completely agree with your Opinion that Privacy is important, and We do not Need to be Spied on by Our Government, but my opinion is You are making kind Of Irrelevant points to Get it across in a very Wordy way. Lots of ideas, But no Real point to it That ties in. There are a million different Reasons that could be Made, but I think some Of these are A bit In left Field.
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Heretic86

Then I'll try to clarify the point.

In the extremes of either Zero Privacy, or Total Privacy, problems will arise.  We need a balance between both that respects the individual and upholds a society that benefits everyone, not just small groups at the expense of others. 
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Shek

Quote from: Blizzard on June 19, 2013, 10:02:52 am
Petitions worked for SOPA, PIPA and ACTA, so obviously the voice of the people can be heard if it is loud enough.


Hate to be the pickle in the ice cream sundae, but those policies were abandoned because big corporations like Google lobbied to have them halted; not because Joe Citizen complained.