No good deed goes unpunished(?)

Started by R.A.V.S.O, November 03, 2013, 10:14:03 pm

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R.A.V.S.O

Hmm I was never that good wording out my thoughts... but this is something that has always caught my attention
and realized it would make a (good?) topic for discussion.

alright, we've heard this phrase at least once somewhere before....
"No good deed goes unpunished"

in a nutshell this would mean (imo):

"Sometimes good intentions bring unjust punishment, but sometimes good intentions may result in very bad results because the good-intentioned
person was also foolish, incompetent, ignorant, or just mistaken"

and we've seen examples where this has been examined, (the farmer and the snake fable, the scorpion & frog fable, just to name a few) and
proven it's point by dropping some very sad yet true examples in life.

my question is...

-should this still apply nowadays, how do we manage it?
-how does it affect us in a long term?
-is it worse to disregard urges to help others regardless of knowing you'll pay dearly for it?

^ with some special emphasis on the last one, you see.... I've seen news where people who were in danger got assisted by strangers
only to be yelled at (and possibly sued) and therefore as a rule of thumb nowadays people seem less and less eager to help others
(which in a way would be understandable while at the same time would cross some form of moral barrier)

are we more prompt to being apathetic against events over the fear of consequence nowadays? or is there some form of criteria for this?
I'm rather puzzled about this and seeing how you all had quite effective conversations in previous topics I figured I could
try to get a more solid idea from here,

btw thanks for your time on reading and replying to this, it's something that's been on my mind nowadays, who knows why.

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Blizzard

November 04, 2013, 04:27:34 am #1 Last Edit: November 04, 2013, 04:28:39 am by Blizzard
I believe that we are only more apathetic due to the increased anonymity in bigger cities. We are more inclined to help someone we hold dear or at least know to some extend. If you live in a small village, even if you're not a friend of the dude at the end of the village, you've probably seen him around so you're more inclined to help. But in a big city people are strangers.

As for the other part, there is a fundamental problem with good deeds that no one ever mentions: strings attached. A good deed should not be done to get something out of it in any way. Being "punished" for a good deed implies that you were expecting a good outcome. Good deeds should be performed not to get something out of it. e.g. A mother may smother her child. She doesn't intend well for her child in this case. She is so self-absorbed in her need to have somebody be grateful to her that she doesn't even realize the damage she is doing. She may think that she intends well, but she does not. She only uses it as an excuse to do what she does: A good deed with strings attached (which is the core problem obviously).

Sure, there are also ungrateful people you would yell at you or sue you if you tried to help them. But one has to realize that it's their problem, not yours. If you tried to help and they reacted badly, it's their own fault. As for the person who tried to help, this is one of the "risks" you take by helping others (other risks being that it takes your time or even money). Either accept the risks or don't help others.
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Ranquil

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Blizzard

Actually friend zone is a perfect example of what I was talking about. Being nice to a girl shouldn't be done so she owes you sex. If she's not interested in you, don't do her favors. It's that simple. If you like her genuinely as a person, want to do her a favor because you think of her as a friend and don't expect something in return, then it's fine.
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Quote from: winkioI do not speak to bricks, either as individuals or in wall form.

Quote from: Barney StinsonWhen I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

G_G

Ranquil, if you're not going to have anything to contribute to the topic at hand, then don't post. This is intelligent debate and you should at least put some effort into your replies here. Your post doesn't even explain anything. The only thing I can get from it is You do all these things for a girl, hoping to get into a serious relationship with her, only to get rejected. That's doing what Blizzard mentioned.

I've been stuck in the friendzone multiple times and you can't get mad at the girl, she's not to blame. It's not her fault you made the decision to bend over backwards for her, it wasn't her fault that you did all these nice things and did anything you could to be there for her. Think closely, you really only did these things because you wanted to be with her. And if not, that's exactly how I felt numerous times. It was nobody's fault but my own. My friend Sally for example, I did everything I could for her, even gave her an awesome Birthday because her family failed to do so, what did I get out of it? A kiss on the cheek and eventually a "don't want to be with you because we're too good of friends" (and later on the excuse was because I am an aethiest, but I digress).

The point is, I did all those things because I wanted something out of it. I didn't do it out of the kindness of my heart. And I feel, a lot of times when people do good things, despite there not being a physical reward, some people do nice things because it makes them feel better and seeing others happy makes them feel good knowing that they did that. I do things like this all the time for my grandma. I feel I owe her my life because of all the things she's helped my dad and myself through (and the fact that she's currently letting my girlfriend and I live rent free to save up money and have some fun in our lives before we go out into the world on our own). She's an absolutely incredible woman. But that doesn't change the fact she's getting older, so I do anything and everything I can to help her. I keep her house clean, I go get groceries for her so she doesn't have to, and I get her little knick knacks here and there because she loves them. And I absolutely love seeing her smile and you know she's truly happy about it because she brags to her sisters about all the things I do every morning.

I don't just do these things to feel happy and to see her happy though, I do truly love her and she's my family.

EDIT: dammit blizzard. >.< Posting before I got to finish my reply.

R.A.V.S.O

Well you see, in my case I sorta feel.... I NEED to help someone regardless of knowing them or not when the situation is on the verge of
life or death. why?

I figured... if I didn't do it, would people know about this? 50/50 chances they didn't or wouldn't care, however would I know about this?
Indeed and the more i'd think about it the more I would realize that not going to the aid of someone in that situation would
(at least for me) be a violation of common sense regardless of getting something or not out of the whole thing...

it's like.... metaphorically speaking, you helped someone out who was being mugged in the street, you fully risk yourself to injuries and whatnot
for the sake of a person in danger, and assuming (not always) that there's these 2 (specific) outcomes:

a) you help person out, person is actually more angry for your involvement.

b) you walk out on the person, and something wrong possibly happened.

let's take a closer look shall we?

I mean if I decided to take a) who knows what the outcome may be, but assuming the mugging itself got
prevented and indeed such person chews me out for it, I'd still keep in track the reason why I did it, was it for a reward? not necessarily, what
(imo) would have motivated me would have been that if I had not interfered, something bad would have happened and even though I still get
the bad end of the ordeal in theory something worse would have been avoided should I have gone for option b). in a way (and theory) I consider
both the option's results beforehand and take the least guilt inducing one regardless of outcome, I'd say it would be choosing the least of all evils(?)

but then there's the other side of the issue, this doesn't ALWAYS work and  can indeed get me in even more hot water should I recklessly
try to make the best or prevent the worst of a situation.... I mean, what if a person was dying? heart-attack, choking, stuck in a fire etc...
I mean sure we'd feel a strong urge to go and help but I would totally reconsider this before rushing in.... Am I a CPR expert? do I know how to
do a proper heimlich maneuver? am I properly geared to go into a building in flames? 9 out of 10, absolutely not, and actually considering to drop
whatever it is I'm doing and go charging in would be the worst idea to get in that situation.


so... In a way, after giving it some thought I figured sometimes although it might induce a guilt trip, it's better not to get involved in some events
unless it is perfectly clear what you need to do and what you should realistically expect from the outcome, regardless if you got sued or rewarded
in the end doesn't such person's life in danger outweight whatever possible reward it is to gain?



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Quote from: R.A.V.S.O on November 04, 2013, 01:35:11 pm
try to make the best or prevent the worst of a situation.... I mean, what if a person was dying? heart-attack, choking, stuck in a fire etc...
I mean sure we'd feel a strong urge to go and help but I would totally reconsider this before rushing in.... Am I a CPR expert? do I know how to
do a proper heimlich maneuver? am I properly geared to go into a building in flames? 9 out of 10, absolutely not, and actually considering to drop
whatever it is I'm doing and go charging in would be the worst idea to get in that situation.


This reminded me of a little story. A man suffers from a heart attack and another man comes to help him. He does everything he can, but he's obviously doing it wrong. So the man with the heart attack says "Please find someone who knows what they are doing!" The other man replies "But I am a nice person! I can help you!" So the dying man says to that "I don't care if you are a nice person, get someone who can help me!"
Basically the man tried to help him not in order to really help him, but to reassure to himself how much of a nice and helping person he is, completely ignoring the needs to the dying man.
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Quote from: winkioI do not speak to bricks, either as individuals or in wall form.

Quote from: Barney StinsonWhen I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.