Are games a waste of time?

Started by WhiteRose, November 06, 2013, 07:11:31 pm

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WhiteRose

November 06, 2013, 07:11:31 pm Last Edit: November 06, 2013, 07:24:20 pm by WhiteRose
College, work, and hanging out on CP keep me pretty busy, but even with all of my responsibilities, I still love to pull up a game from time to time. However, recently, my gaming experience has been slightly soured; I know that my time to relax is limited, and with all of the other things that I love to do - drawing, writing, programming, RMXP projects, cello, and so on - it sometimes feels like spending a couple hours a day playing games is a disgusting waste of such precious free time. Obviously, this mindset takes the pleasure out of slaying a few virtual dragons or whatever.
After doing some reading, I've realized that many people don't even consider gaming to be a hobby; you're not gaining useful knowledge or collecting anything of worth. I know that everyone has their own tastes, but gaming more so than almost any other activity is looked upon as childish, immature, and at times downright pitiful. The more and more I read about these opinions, the more guilty I feel, to the point where now my free time is spent wondering whether I should even bother pulling up the 3DS or starting up my latest foray into a fantasy world.

I understand that, depending on how existential one decides to get, they could go on about how life is about finding joy and doing what makes you happy, but it seems so easy for people to reciprocate by saying that anyone who is addicted to a negative substance or activity could come up with the same excuse. Am I only having fun playing games because I'm addicted to them? I don't know any more. :(

What are your thoughts, CP? Should I hang up the keyboard once and for all?

EDIT: The more and more I read, the more each point seems like an arrow to the knee heart. (Nothing like an overused meme to make a post seem less depressing, right?) It's true that I'm not bettering myself as a person. It's true that my more useful talents are being left to rot while I level up my characters in some MMO or follow some colorful squares on Rock Band. I can hardly imagine all of the progress I'd make in learning scripting or in my writing if I was doing either of those instead. It's true that my social life is suffering because I'd rather spend my free time in on the computer than out with friends. Games are probably even directly responsible for not having a boyfriend - I bet I could find someone if I put my mind to it. Even knowing all of this, I keep turning back to games, even though now they don't even seem that fun any more. It really is an addiction. :( Maybe I'm just really depressed today or something.

Zexion

November 06, 2013, 07:44:00 pm #1 Last Edit: November 06, 2013, 07:45:46 pm by Zexion
Rose OMG. I was literally thinking this exact thing yesterday. The thing is, it's all about time management. As long as you are doing what you have to do (classwork, homework, studying, job, etc.) then it shouldn't really matter what you want to do. If video games make you happy, then play them! I know that a lot of people look down on those who play video games at our age, but those are people you don't really need in your life anyway. In japan everyone plays games and stuff and it's hardly looked down upon. The way I see it, if our culture here in 'merica is obsessed with drugs, sex, violence, and thug life, then I am fine with mah pokemans.

Also, maybe you just need to meet someone who is like you. Sure, if you try you can find a guy, but if he's not into games and stuff how will you guys ever relate? That's the way I've always looked at it and yeah I'm single but I do have friends that are exactly like me, or close enough and they are the best friends anyone could have :D You are also probably feeling this way because you feel like you are getting older and are scared of being alone. Which is what I'm feeling too. Just try not to think about these things. Life will always work out somehow and you shouldn't try to change things that you like because some article on the net says so. Their job is to be convincing, maybe they are just good o.o

Edit: Also, does some of this come because you failed to do something with rpg maker lol. I swear I get like this everytime I get lost in making my game.

winkio

Games are entertainment.  Why do people go to movies, watch tv, play sports, etc.?  There is no reason to feel guilty about entertainment.  I do encourage you to try new forms of entertainment though, don't stick to games 100% of the time.  Especially because so many games are so bad *cough personal opinion cough*.

Zexion

Or you could try combining your hobby with gaming :D One of the things I've started doing recently is playing famous rpg's and seeing what they are all about. Looking at different things like battle systems, messaging systems, graphics, etc. and then seeing what/if I can apply to my rmxp game.

R.A.V.S.O

Personally I believe it's not a huge waste of time...

I mean it does lie under the category of entertainment yes, however compare gaming to the other existing forms of entertainment,
in a way it makes a person interact more than watching TV or blatantly try their hand at the sex, drugs & thug lifestyle.
As someone who's studying programming I realized, if gaming is supposedly a "dead end" with no productive derivatives and whatnot,
why is there such a growing career based on game design? What I'm trying to get to is that... if we end up looking at gaming
through the limited perspective of the end consumer, you might indeed end up thinking it's just another passtime that eats valuable time
and resources,

but If you ask me, as a developer in the making I can tell you, I've seen people who poured their heart, soul, ambition etc... into these
so called "worthless" games, and began to develop and refine more and more their programming, artwork, style and overall technique
just by simply doing what they like to do, will society make you feel bad about this? probably. Is it truly bad? that's kinda hard to tell.
gaming in both the end consumer's and the developer's points of view can make or break a person, it's all a matter of how determined,
obsessed, or realistically one approaches the ins and outs of the gameplay,

Besides, when I think about it games have something other forms of entertainment do not have: the denial of content if one was downright
bad at the game or if they clearly NOT wanted to play at all... (imagine reading your favorite book only to have a quiz in a random page that didn't
let you proceed if you answered badly, or a movie demanding you explain a plot-important statement in-between, only a game can
do this XD)

(small non-important rant of mine, skip this if you want: I hate the word "hardcore-gamer" nowadays... it's like people obtain this as a form of self-entitlement if they actually played a game, just because people go watch movies and read books does not make them hardcore readers or viewers
it's just lost meaning... meh....)

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Blizzard

November 07, 2013, 02:08:58 am #5 Last Edit: November 07, 2013, 02:20:28 am by Blizzard
Rose, I have a very simple solution for you.

First, @RAVSO:

Playing games is a form of entertainment, but making games is not. As a game developers, we are simply people who work in the entertainment industry just like e.g. actors and movie directors. But games as such have a different value than other forms of entertainment as you can develop and hone certain skills. e.g. FPS-es will improve your hand-to-eye coordination, strategy games will improve your time management and organization skills, simulations will improve your critical thinking and risk evaluation, RPGs will improve your priority selection based on current demands, racing games will improve your skill to adapt and foresee certain behavior within logical systems, etc. So you can't compare these two as you can't compare and actor to a person who watches movies.

Back @Rose:

If you feel that bad about playing so many games, you can easily get it under control:

1. Stop playing MMOs. They don't teach you anything new (at least not over the course of weeks and months of playing) and they are very time consuming.
2. Be more selective about what you play.
3. Use games as a form of entertainment and reward for doing something useful rather than using it as a means to escape reality and kill boredom.
4. If you play any kind of multiplayer games, play them with friends and turn on Skype or something so that you can communicate via voice in real time. It improves the gaming experience a lot. e.g. I played DayZ at the beginning of this year for 20-30 hours with 2 of my friends and it was totally fun. I don't regret a single second playing it.

In a nutshell, don't stop playing games, but make it worthwhile. I am playing Castlevania: Lords of Shadow (it was on Steam sale on Halloween) when I find a few hours time in between. While not one of the best games I played (it's decent), I enjoy it, because I know that I deserved to have some relax time after working late hours at the office or working 2-3 times a week at home on my own projects. Often on Sundays, when I am somewhat hungover from Saturday night, I like to just sit down and either watch stuff or play games the whole day. In a state like that there's not much I can do anyway, but at least this gives me a chance and excuse to play something.

Games are a waste of time if that's the only thing you do. If you only go out and are social, you are useless to society and don't contribute in any way. If you play games, you are a no-life gamer. If you just go to work, you are a workaholic. Anything without limits is bad. So balance is key. Be useful. Work on your RM game. Or find another constructive hobby. Do your school work and go to lessons. And you can still squeeze in a couple of hours every week of playing. You can squeeze in easily 10-20 hours per week that way and still be useful (I manage maybe 10 if I'm lucky and only when I'm actively playing a game). Don't waste your life on JUST games, but rather make it a part of your life that you enjoy and don't have to feel guilty about by moderating the time you put into it.

Also, yeah, screw those articles. If you are passionate about something and balance it well, it's a way to enjoy life, not an addiction. So moderation might the only thing you need and that's not so hard to achieve. Of course, maybe you already are moderating it in this way (from what I can read from your post).

And also, if professional gaming can be a job (it is), then it can also be a hobby (not a particularly constructive one, though). Don't let anybody else tell you otherwise.

@winkio: There's a huge wave of mediocre games these days, but there's also a lot of games that have a certain something that makes them worthwhile playing. We are at the verge of a gaming revolution as there are new consoles coming around (particularly Steam Box seems interesting) and new ways of playing (Oculus Rift). The future will be interesting indeed.
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Heretic86

I think that its really a Subjective Conclusion to think that games are a waste of time or not.

We didnt go to the Moon because it was easy, we went to the Moon because it was hard.

Life, whether digital or offline is a series of challenges.  And any sort of challenge can make us stronger.  With games, both sides can be argued easily.  The mind is as much of a muscle as any other part of the body.  When we challenge our minds, we become stronger.  When we play games that challenge our reflexes, we strengthen our reflexes.  When we play music, we get better and better at it.  When we build games, we continue to get better at building games.  Even with Puzzle Games.  There is a ceratain ammt of challenge to it and the challenge strengthens us in some way.  For people that are out of shape, working out is too challenging so it isnt fun.  For people that are body builders, performing actions that arent challenging isnt rewarding because it doesnt strenthen us.  We could think of that as easily as trying to challenge someone so they become better at math by only asking them what 2 + 2 is.  Its not enough of a challenge, so there is no sense of reward.

And its that reward that I think is what determines whether or not games are a waste of time or not, and why it is so Subjective for each person.  So okay, you get a high score on some game, but other responsibilities are neglected.  Thats probably not such a good thing.  But when the rest of your responsiblities are taken care of as well as can reasonably be expected, I dont have any problem with playing games at all.  Just as we can exercise our minds and bodies, we can also push ourselves too far.  Too much of one thing and everything else falls out of balance.  Focus only on work and the family suffers.  Focus only on the Family and work suffers.  Focus only on games and work and family will suffer.  When working out, we dont exercise the same muscle groups two days in a row.  We give ourselves a day or two to recover, then go back to working out those muscles.  Thus, too much working out actually diminishes the rewards we can achieve, so a balance is needed.

The brain needs a break just as the body needs a break.  Too much math and it diminishes how quickly we can become better at math.  So whether games exercise the logical parts of your brain with puzzles, the reactionary part of your brain with fast paced action games, or whatever part of the brain gets exercised when experiencing a story, these things all need to be kept in balance with every other part of your life.  Cello, friends, social, games, rest, exercise, study, movies, food, everything in life has a certain balance to it.  That balance is different from person to person, and will also vary dependant on so many different things.  Bodybuilders might be able to burn through 10,000 calories in a day, but someone that doesnt exercise much might only need 1,500 calories per day, despite the recommendations for caloric intake, it does vary from person to person.

If games are no longer rewarding to play, thats when I think something else rewarding should be done.  If playing music is no longer fun, come back to it later when it holds your interest.  Your brain tells you when its time to pick something up and when to put something down through that system of rewards.  So close to finishing a script, you've probably got a very strong desire to continue because of the anticipated reward.  And once that script is done, polished, released, and supported, its probably time to put it down and do something else for a while, even for a couple of minutes, or a couple of weeks.

MMO's really are addictive because there is so much content that the player always strives for the next small thing that gives them that sense of accomplishment.  Being able to buy an armor upgrade to going on a raid and defeating an enemy that you havent defeated yet.  To a certain extent, there is challenge, and there is reward, but the reward is only based on your character being rewarded with improved abilities, while the player doesn't really benefit as much.  The sense of reward is still there because now the character is more powerful, but it doesnt give you better hand eye coordination, or puzzle solving abilities.  It may be fair to say that if we lived our lives as we play MMO's, we would be happier with the rewards of real life and not seek that empty sense of reward from MMO's.

@Blizz - Creating games for me is probably as much fun as playing a good game.  I personally dont tend to think of it as work.  I realize when creating games is no longer fun or rewarding for me, thats when it becomes work, but when I can sink my teeth into what Im doing, its not work, its fun.  Sure, some work is needed to get through the low parts, but if it is all work all the time, then I start daydreaming, and have to force myself to quit until what I am thinking about becomes fun again.  So, whether Im playing by writing scripts, or working on a Film, both have the potential to be a form of Entertainment for me, even though they are labeled as work.  And I think I just paraphrased everything else you said in your post.

Balance

Moderation

Reward

Goals

Not all of our rewards are financial.  Thats when doing anything becomes work.  Do this because we only want money, its work.  Telling jokes is rewading because I see other peoples happiness as a result.  Not because I get paid to tell jokes.  The thing about money is it can be taken away, while no one can rob you of your ability to play a piece of musical equipment in a way that benefits them.  That is a real reward, and I think this money thing is the false reward.

I may post more later...
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Blizzard

It's good to get money for doing something you like. But yeah, money doesn't bring happiness. It's essential for survival in today's world, but it's not enough for self-actualization.
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Quote from: winkioI do not speak to bricks, either as individuals or in wall form.

Quote from: Barney StinsonWhen I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

Crasger

Well for a long time, we humans perceive that the best way to live life is when you are happy, when you make others happy and doing what makes you happy. Essentially a pursuit of happiness is a rather nice psychological viewpoint to live by. There are some who enjoy being sad. There are others who get off by being an arse to others. Lemme ask you this, what makes YOU happy and do you want to be happy?

But of course too much of something can be bad. Moderation is to be considered. Especially as people get older, there will be more and more responsibilities. Tons of it, in fact. But we all know that by now. Just try not to juggle everything by binging on games, studies and your craft. Take everything in moderation and decide which times you'd like to work and which times you'd like to play.

Basically, every post here will be an echo of the rather obvious answer of "if you're happy, then it ISN'T a waste of your time."

WhiteRose

Quote from: Crasger on April 18, 2014, 06:24:47 am
Well for a long time, we humans perceive that the best way to live life is when you are happy, when you make others happy and doing what makes you happy. Essentially a pursuit of happiness is a rather nice psychological viewpoint to live by. There are some who enjoy being sad. There are others who get off by being an arse to others. Lemme ask you this, what makes YOU happy and do you want to be happy?

But of course too much of something can be bad. Moderation is to be considered. Especially as people get older, there will be more and more responsibilities. Tons of it, in fact. But we all know that by now. Just try not to juggle everything by binging on games, studies and your craft. Take everything in moderation and decide which times you'd like to work and which times you'd like to play.

Basically, every post here will be an echo of the rather obvious answer of "if you're happy, then it ISN'T a waste of your time."



I had almost forgotten about this topic; it's nice to have the chance to revisit it now that my head is on a little straighter. Your last sentence pretty much sums things up for my current mindset, Crasger. Games, like any other hobby, are all about having fun, while, of course, doing our best to maintain balance in other aspects of life as well. Our minds, to some extent, actually do a great job of letting us know when we're getting a little too absorbed in something - guilt about leaving important things undone, for example, or simply the fact that something isn't as fun when you do it for too long at a time. As long as we keep our goals in mind, both short and long term, then it's a good thing to spend time doing what we enjoy.

Crasger

Indeed, WhiteRose.

Unfortunately, some people can't even tell the difference between virtual worlds and reality anymore.

Well, that was always a problem anyway.

The answer to the question of: "What is real and what isn't?"
Rather simple, but some people find that hard to answer.