The Mass Effect Thread (CONTAINS SPOILERS!)

Started by WhiteRose, January 30, 2014, 10:47:25 pm

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WhiteRose

January 30, 2014, 10:47:25 pm Last Edit: January 31, 2014, 04:55:58 pm by Blizzard
When I heard about the series, I initially dismissed it as being a big budget shooter in the same vein as CoD or Halo, with lots of action and shooting and little else. (No offense to CoD fans, of course; just not my type of game.) I started the first one a couple times and never got into it. Recently, however, I picked it up again, and played through the whole trilogy. Ironically, the shooting in the first game is a little clunky, making it not a very good shooter game at all. (This is vastly improved in the second and third installments.) What really got me, though, was that it was a role playing game with actual roleplaying! You decide how your character plays out, your actions influence his/her personality, and your decisions make a massive impact on the game universe - even two games later! (Your character and save data, including the decisions that you make, are carried from game to game.) I love that you can fail an objective, and rather than getting a "Game Over" screen, the game keeps going with the story continuing as if Commander Shepard really failed that objective, and the consequences of that failure now being a plot point. The game universe and characters are all incredible and likeable - I especially came to love each squadmate that joins you over the course of the game. (Even Jack, whom I initially found incredibly distasteful.) The different alien races are unique and engaging, and the depth of backstory put into everything is impressive and worth reading.

Anyway, just thought I'd throw a recommendation out there. I sometimes crawl over this board when looking for new games to play, and I want to throw this series out there as one of my new favorites. This series gets my official stamp of approval. If you haven't yet, give it a try.

Also, on one final note, there are a couple of mods out there that I recommend as well, both of which are for the third game: the MEHEM mod, which improves the ending significantly (if you haven't played the games yet, don't read up on it or it will spoil the ending for you - just take my word for it and install it,) and the Citadel Epilogue mod. (As much as I dislike paid DLC, this mod ties in with the other one to really make the most of the content in tying together the final emotional strings. It costs $15 extra since it requires you to have a piece of paid DLC installed, but it's worth it, in my opinion.)
Finally, there is also a high-res texture pack out there for ME1, which makes it look a little less dated, though it has still held up pretty well.

Blizzard

I have played ME as well and I agree that it is a great series. There are only 3 things that I don't like about it.

1. As the series progresses, the gameplay gets dumbed down. While the first game feels like an RPG, the two following games feel less so. Especially side quests (exploring planets was removed in ME2) and minigames/puzzles were made worse. The only exception is the hacking minigame in ME2 which is better than the one in ME1. I think that such things add to the open-world-ness which seems to be important for the series due to the fact of the detailed universe and lore created around it. It's a shame if you can't explore that world a bit better, may it just be landing on planets and doing stuff.

2. They introduced ammo effectively in ME2. On of the things I loved about ME1 was that there was no ammo, only cooldown time. This kinda made it stand out among other shooters.

3. The endings, obviously. But if you take into account the Shepard Indoctrination Theory, the ending is still mind-blowing.
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WhiteRose

Quote from: Blizzard on January 31, 2014, 04:32:35 am
I have played ME as well and I agree that it is a great series. There are only 3 things that I don't like about it.

1. As the series progresses, the gameplay gets dumbed down. While the first game feels like an RPG, the two following games feel less so. Especially side quests (exploring planets was removed in ME2) and minigames/puzzles were made worse. The only exception is the hacking minigame in ME2 which is better than the one in ME1. I think that such things add to the open-world-ness which seems to be important for the series due to the fact of the detailed universe and lore created around it. It's a shame if you can't explore that world a bit better, may it just be landing on planets and doing stuff.

2. They introduced ammo effectively in ME2. On of the things I loved about ME1 was that there was no ammo, only cooldown time. This kinda made it stand out among other shooters.

3. The endings, obviously. But if you take into account the Shepard Indoctrination Theory, the ending is still mind-blowing.


I agree 100% with everything that you said, right down to the hacking mini-game in 2 being better than 1. I was honestly surprised that it was missing in 3.

I had heard of the indoctrination theory before, but hadn't looked into it much. Definitely an interesting theory.
Ending Spoilers: ShowHide
If true, the events of the MEHEM, essentially Shepard doing nothing more than using the Crucible to destroy the Reapers as has been his goal from the beginning, could even fit in with the IT. Basically, you could take the entire "original" ending as per the IT, meaning the hallucination with Shepard waking up at the very end, and then put the MEHEM ending immediately afterwards, having him complete his task of reaching the Citadel and activating the Crucible. This would provide both the depth and unexpectedness of the IT with the closure of the MEHEM, despite being slightly repetitive by having the dream events followed immediately by the "real" events with only small (but important) differences.

Whatever the case, my personal "canon" version of the ending is the happy ending seen in MEHEM, whether that is possible through IT or whatever else. After a 200+ hour campaign across three titles, Shepard deserves a happy ending. With all of the stuff that you have to go through, he earned it.

Blizzard

More ending spoilers: ShowHide
I actually don't think that the synthesis ending should be considered a bad one which is my main point against IT (even though my mind was blown from everything else). Obviously an ongoing theme in the game are the differences between synthetic and organic life forms. I see no reason why synthesis should not be a superior life form, born from two weaker ones. After all, the theory of evolution mentions how important it is to diversify genetic code. So why not take this to the next level and diversify the very foundation of pure organic life forms.
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WhiteRose

Quote from: Blizzard on January 31, 2014, 04:17:29 pm
More ending spoilers: ShowHide
I actually don't think that the synthesis ending should be considered a bad one which is my main point against IT (even though my mind was blown from everything else). Obviously an ongoing theme in the game are the differences between synthetic and organic life forms. I see no reason why synthesis should not be a superior life form, born from two weaker ones. After all, the theory of evolution mentions how important it is to diversify genetic code. So why not take this to the next level and diversify the very foundation of pure organic life forms.



Perhaps we should name this the ME ending thread by now.... Haha.: ShowHide

You have a good point with that Synthesis at first seems like a good choice. However, I can't imagine synthesis without thinking of all of the Reapers' creations - husks, cannibals, banshees, and so on. Those are "synthesized" beings created by the Reapers. The Reapers' goal, as I understand it, is to preserve each species by creating a synthesized form of it, culminating in a full-fledged Reaper version, like the Human Reaper. If Shepard chooses to synthesize organic and synthetic life, he is doing exactly what the Reapers have been trying to do the whole time, just in a way that involves less... liquidation. (Or maybe it does involve liquidation. Who knows?) I guess the advantage would be that individuals would retain their individuality, (eg, Garrus would still be Garrus, despite being a creepy robo-zombie marauder Garrus.) We don't even know that for sure.

I guess that really sums up everything, though - we don't know ANYTHING for sure, really. There's so much ambiguity across what you see in game as well as all of the theories out there that it's difficult if not impossible to ever completely accept something as what actually happens. There's so much wiggle room for interpretation. That's why I've locked my mind on the outcome that I like the best. But that doesn't mean that I don't enjoy throwing around some theories. ;)

I actually wouldn't be surprised if BioWare's goal with the whole thing was exactly this form of "artistic" metagaming - leaving people feeling unsettled and searching to make their own closure. There are a lot of artists out there that try and accomplish exactly that with their art, (especially in modern pieces,) so they could have had that mindset. I'd have prefered an old-fashioned happy ending in line with those seen in ME1 and ME2, as this kind of artistic thing just doesn't fit in with the rest of the established ME universe and space epic genre. (Can you imagine if Star Wars ended with an ending like this, for example? I'm personally not into Star Wars much, but I can only imagine the rage....) I guess it's up to them to come up with an ending for their series; I'm just glad they left enough wiggle room that I'm able to piece together a version of the ending that leaves me happy.

Blizzard

January 31, 2014, 04:52:45 pm #5 Last Edit: January 31, 2014, 04:55:41 pm by Blizzard
Let's just drop the spoilers then, lol!

I agree that synthesis caused lifeforms to get messed up. But what if the reapers have been trying to do this for a long time now and they finally figured out how to do it right? As you said, there's a lot of ambiguousness. It's difficult to decide which path would be the right one. You can also look at it from a point of view that organic life forms (especially humans) are quite stubborn. Species that have been around only for a couple of tens of thousands of years may not even be as wise and experienced. Maybe the reapers are right. Or maybe they're a bunch of assholes that got ahead in evolution and are now trying to stay there by fucking up everybody else. It's hard to decide. xD

As I said, the only thing I disagree with is that synthesis is ultimately wrong. But on the other hand, Saren was thinking the same thing and he was controlled by them.
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WhiteRose

Quote from: Blizzard on January 31, 2014, 04:52:45 pm
As I said, the only thing I disagree with is that synthesis is ultimately wrong. But on the other hand, Saren was thinking the same thing and he was controlled by them.


Taking the options at face value and putting aside things like the IT or MEHEM, Synthesis is certainly not the "wrong" choice, any more than any of the rest of them are wrong. On the contrary, everyone gets to live (save Shepard and any casualties that have already occurred,) and the lurking danger of conflict between organics and synthetics is resolved, which is not resolved in the other choices. (Personally, being able to reach peace between the geth and quarians already showed that this conflict can be resolved in a less drastic way, but that's just my opinion.)
It does certainly put Shepard (and transitively, the player,) in an unfortunate position, though. "If you'd just stopped your meddling all the way back in the beginning of ME1, we would have gotten here sooner, and with a lot less bloodshed. You've just been screwing up the process, and FINALLY you realize that you were wrong the whole time. To top it all off, if you'd kept your nose out of things, you'd even still be alive!"

I vaguely recall another older game, one of the early Dragon Quests, I think, that shared a similar plot. The player thinks that they are the Legendary Warrior, but at the end, it turns out that someone else was the legendary warrior and that they were childishly deluding themselves the whole game while the real Legendary Warrior solved the problems. I'm just glad that ME didn't go quite THAT far. Hahaha. XD

Blizzard

I agree. I also got the quarians and geth to make up and kiss. Sadly Legion died in the process. I think my tech skill wasn't high enough (or my paragon affinity?) to save him or something like that, I really don't remember. In any case, yes, peace should be possible. But one also has to take into account that reapers were not like "duh, we just wanna 'live' like everybody else", but they were straight up "ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US". So maybe there is no reasoning with them after all. If the reapers offered a true step further in evolution, why go through all the death and violence and stuff? Maybe their synthesis techniques really are inferior and insufficient. After all, if the reapers were not able to understand the threat the Crucible poses, maybe they deserve to die out.
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bigace

January 31, 2014, 11:29:57 pm #8 Last Edit: January 31, 2014, 11:40:36 pm by bigace
I actually like the IT, but we all know that BioWare/EA wasn't being that sophisticated, especially since the dumbass were wasting time and resources on crappy multiplayer instead of story. Otherwise all those DLC's would of been part of the actual story and people like Legion and Miranda wouldn't get the shit end of the stick in ME3. I mean come on Legion was my favorite character and you use him for a hour in ME2 (reaper ship and suicide mission) and only see (not use) him in ME3 for I think 2 mission. Miranda the love interest also gets a shitty end of the stick in ME3 as well, to point that in order to have any fun EA made you spend an extra $12 PSN on the citadel DLC. That is were I said fk that I'll just go back to Ashley, oh wait Ashley acks likes a giant dick the whole game and you only see her after Citadel gets attack. Great going EA, things I think they got wrong.


  • DLC's that should have been in the game. From Ashes(same day B.S. plus for more lolz content already the disc) and Leviathan advance the story the most.

  • Overpriced DLC's. Really $10 PSN for main story content that should be on the disc. There's games that have DLC's for $2 and have more content in them and are side quest.

  • Poor character development. I explained it my rant above. Basically EA says "if you want character development, buy our overpriced Citadel DLC."

  • Add more plotholes instead addressing old ones from the first two games. To many to list, anyone who played the game knows.

  • Udina incident not being explained.

  • No Legion as a party member.  :facepalmx: :down:



@Blizzard: I've done my research and there is no way to save Legion, no matter what you did in ME2 & 3. Besides them missing a lot of points from the first two games, I think the third game should've had a second way to beat the reapers as the crucible look like it was bound to fail. I know the Council was retarded, and I lolz when Thessia :rofl: fell due ignorance of not listening to me for the past 3 years (in game), but you would think the human alliance would of thought of a plan B and C or something. Else you telling me the human council wouldn't listen the first human Spectres about the impending doom that lingering over them. Any lack of planning in this game I blame EA/Bioware and not anyone in ME universe expect the Council as they seemed be written that way on purpose.


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Blizzard

Yeah, the Council are stuck up idiots. I sacrificed them in the first game which didn't make anything easier in the other two.
I agree that there are plot holes, but you have to take into account that the games are massive in scope. It's easy to miss something. I wouldn't say that it's that much of a problem since the story execution is overall quite good. The fact that some characters change and act differently is ok if you ask me. Sure, Ashley may have become reserved, but that's simply how she started looking at the world. I think it was stupid that Miranda's personality felt weak in ME3. She didn't feel as strong a person as in ME2. Actually I don't remember how she ended up in ME3 when I was playing. I know that we killed her father, but I forgot what happened to her later. Well, this only shows how forgettable Ashley and Miranda were in ME3 so you kinda have a point. :/
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WhiteRose

I actually thought the characterization in ME3 was very good overall, with all things considered. There wasn't quite as much time to have focus on individual characters as there was in ME2, due to now having a greater number of characters in play as well as having the climax of the central plot taking place. This left little time for individual characters, so they just had to tie them in with things in the best way that they could. I do think it would have been nice to see a little more of each of their personalities, but given the constraints, I thought things were handled pretty well.

As for the DLC thing, I completely agree that there were some low blows in that department, especially with the For Ashes DLC, which was essentially part of the original game that they cut for the sole purpose of selling as DLC and earning some extra money. Low blow indeed. On the other hand, there have been a couple of "good" DLCs as well, meaning content that was legitimately produced after the original game and added on as a mini expansion pack, such as the Citadel DLC, which I recommend due to being hilarious and also filling in a lot of the gaps with the characters. (As I mentioned in my first post, I particularly like it as an Epilogue, used with the Citadel Epilogue Mod. Highly recommended, if you haven't tried it. Perfect mood to end the series.)

Spaceman McConaughey

I fell in love with the Mass Effect games.

I laughed, I cried, and was always on the edge of my seat eagerly anticipating what was to come next.
Truly a memorable cast of characters, and a fantastic sci-fi universe that, in my opinion, trumps that of Star Wars (which is saying a lot, at least coming from me).

Now, my friends, I introduce to you the two scenes that make me cry, ever. single. time:
HERE THEY IS: ShowHide

Mass Effect 2: Overlord DLC Ending
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tWhNMqCYhQ

Mass Effect 3: Mordin's Death
(the reason I'm posting the renegade version, is because I find it even sadder than the paragon version. it just... holy fuck)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEc4gBS6gRg


bigace

I thought this was funny: Everything Wrong With ME3

@Blizzard: There wasn't alot of plot holes but their were some, right now I can't remember what they are but EA should of cover them in ME3. Also Ashley acted like a bitch ever since she saw you in ME2 on Eden Prime and they just made it worst in ME3. I wish there was an option to kill them both in ME1 (kaiden), then I wouldn't have to worry about her. Though I didn't kill her in ME3. For Miranda, if she didn't die during that stand off with her father, then the only thing you get is a quick intercom talk right before the final battle. Which is bS, but what ever. I would of choice Tail instead, but you never see her face through any of the games, espically that seen when she takes off her mask after the battle for Rannoch.

@WhiteRose: Actually you had less players to worry about, ME2 had 12 characters and ME3 had 6 (unless you have Javik that makes it 7), so less people to worry about. Plus only 2 people were add to the roaster, Javik and James, EDI was already in ME2. Also the Citadel DLC says otherwise also, because that DLC right there is one giant character development with all the characters that you saved from the previous games. So its clearly not that hard to add some there in there. Anyways, any good writer would be able to add place add this stuff, but sadly EA didn't care or just lacked writer on that part. I'll go with EA's cheapness.
I won't be getting anymore DLC's until I build my PC. I was already dumb enough to by the From Ashes DLC for $10 PSN, until I realized how much content was on it compared to other games and the fact that it was part of the actual MAIN STORYLINE. Anything that has to do with the main storyline shouldn't be in a DLC, including the Leviathan DLC pack. Because without them you are missing good chunk of info, plus Javik's dialogs are funny. "Throw the A.I. out of airlock commander." Things that don't add to the MAIN STORYLINE are fine for DLC's like sidequest (Omega, Citadel, comics that involve shepard) and stuff after the game is over.

Also is Citadel DLC pack right before the Epilogue anyways?


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WhiteRose

February 02, 2014, 12:02:09 am #13 Last Edit: February 02, 2014, 12:07:40 am by WhiteRose
Quote from: Colonel Blinx on February 01, 2014, 11:42:05 pm
I fell in love with the Mass Effect games.

I laughed, I cried, and was always on the edge of my seat eagerly anticipating what was to come next.
Truly a memorable cast of characters, and a fantastic sci-fi universe that, in my opinion, trumps that of Star Wars (which is saying a lot, at least coming from me).

Now, my friends, I introduce to you the two scenes that make me cry, ever. single. time:
HERE THEY IS: ShowHide

Mass Effect 2: Overlord DLC Ending
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tWhNMqCYhQ

Mass Effect 3: Mordin's Death
(the reason I'm posting the renegade version, is because I find it even sadder than the paragon version. it just... holy fuck)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEc4gBS6gRg




I never played the Overlord DLC; I'll have to pick it up so that I can appreciate the ending. (Didn't click the video; didn't want to spoil it.)

And Mordin's death was so sad. :'(

Also, Tali's suicide if you choose the geth over the quarian. Super super sad.

Oh, and Thane's death, too. And his son saying, "That prayer was for you."   So much sadness.

These games.... incredible stuff.

EDIT: @bigace: It's true that there were fewer playable characters, but considering that none of your squad dies in ME2 if you play your cards right, they still had to manage all of the characters. That's why you still see some incredible scenes with Legion, Thane, and so on. I can understand your frustration, though; I would have loved to have a full-fledged DLC-sized chunk of the game for every single character. They're all that good.

Without the Citadel Epilogue mod, there isn't an epilogue, really. Citadel DLC, as far as in the official storyline, does take place right before the last mission, but it feels awkwardly placed given the urgency of the situation, and given the real world time at which it was released (considerably after the rest of the ME3 single player content,) it seems like it was MEANT to be an epilogue of sorts, but couldn't be actually placed as such due to the frustratingly ambiguous nature of the endings. The mod just tweaks it slightly so that it feels like it should, taking place a little while after the end of the main storyline.

Blizzard

February 02, 2014, 06:35:40 am #14 Last Edit: February 02, 2014, 08:01:03 am by Blizzard
Shit, I totally forgot Mordin's death. Yeah, it was really sad. Thane's was sad as well, but it was a different feel. You knew it was coming, you had time to prepare. Saying your final goodbyes was a bit easier that way. I remember how his story really touched me and I wanted him to find his son and make peace with him. He was definitely one of the realest characters in ME.

@bigace: Even though ME3 is watered down on this, the first 2 games already established the characters. My personal opinion is that one should play the entire series, not just one or two games. Especially the last game on its own is heavily flawed in this regard. Regardless, I always enjoyed just talking to all characters. After every single mission I would take a trip around the Normandy and talk to everybody to see if something new is going on. It's a truly fantastic series, even with its flaws.
And yeah, I remember now Miranda over the intercom. I agree, it was BS. I wanted to see her and talk to her again. After all, in ME2 we had sex (lol, I picked Miranda), we had a history. The entire thing may have been in the past, but it feels so unresolved.

Also, I didn't play the DLCs.

EDIT: Oh god, I just remembered Thresher Maw vs. the Reaper! This was so fucking epic and awesome. My mind was blown.

EDIT: @Blinx: Holy fuck, the renegade version is fucked up. I couldn't bring myself to do it, I picked the paragon one when I was playing. As a matter of fact, I was for the genophage at the beginning, but seeing how Mordin struggled and that Wrex truly wanted to cure it not to conquer the galaxy but save his people, I changed my opinion over the course of the game. I remember even that lab with the experiments on the krogan females. I destroyed the data and Wrex was pissed at me when he found out. I tried explaining that this is the wrong way to solve the problem, he doesn't want that kind of blood on his hands. I think that this was a slow turning point for me when I saw how much he cared about it. I admit that I also felt a little bit guilty since I obviously fucked up his chances and I wanted to make it up to him and help him.

EDIT: I just started watching this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJUck8VPgEI "GamingSins: Everything Wrong with Mass Effect 3". I laughed my ass off 10 seconds in. Click the link and just watch the first game sin. xD
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bigace

And people of Choas Projects, I present to you our final boss of Mass Effect 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=467pmIX-oZo#t=70


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Spaceman McConaughey

February 03, 2014, 04:00:50 am #16 Last Edit: February 03, 2014, 05:43:49 pm by Colonel Blinx
Boy, that's such an old and unfunny joke. Not trying to be a dick, but really...

It's on par with Skyrim's "arrow to the knee". Please just stop.

EDIT:
Just want to expand a bit; when you take into consideration how big of a deal choice in the Mass Effect series is, the last three choices (and secret forth) are the true boss of the game.
You can consider picking a choice you didn't like losing the boss battle.

A boss battle doesn't have to equate to "omg epik explosion battle". Just sayin'.

WhiteRose

I drew a Mass Effect picture today. :)

Spoiler: ShowHide
It's Tali and Shepard. :) My male Shepard romanced Tali because I think they are really cute together. <3

Spaceman McConaughey


WhiteRose

@Blinx: Thanks! :)

I realized the other day that one character with a really sad past even though you don't see much of it is Samara. If you take what you know from her quests in ME2 and 3 and combine it with this, it's beautifully tragic. Especially the
Spoiler: ShowHide
"Personalized "Happy Birthday Mom" travel mug with photo of Samara and children (handle cracked and repaired, some glue marks visible)".
I don't know why, but that gets me every time.

Being able to come up with not only a universe but a large number of truly interesting characters is remarkable. These games are fantastic.