Why Generation Y Yuppies are unhappy

Started by Blizzard, June 07, 2014, 02:10:45 pm

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Blizzard

A really great article. I only disagree with the concept of happiness presented there (happiness is not a destination, it's the journey to becoming awesome), but everything else is pretty much spot on.

https://thinkfast.quora.com/Why-Generation-Y-Yuppies-Are-Unhappy
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Quote from: winkioI do not speak to bricks, either as individuals or in wall form.

Quote from: Barney StinsonWhen I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

winkio

I completely disagree with everything in this article.  It sets Generation Y up as a bunch of entitled idiots unable to cope with reality, thinking they are the only ones having a tough time.

First, numerous social media outlets have proven that this generation knows that they are all getting screwed over (facebook, reddit, etc.).  A large number of young people are very aware of social issues ranging from dwindling social security to environmental deregulation to discrimination against young employees (requiring numerous years of experience), and are very expressive of their anger and frustration.  They do not look at their peers with jealousy, but with sympathy.

Second, this generation actually is somewhat special compared to older generations.  Besides having the innate skills needed to work with new technology that older generations lack, most of them also have a considerably deeper and more rigorous education, due to the introduction of new teaching tools as well as an additional 20-30 years of knowledge/research.  Even without experience, this generation is far from useless, and individuals have a lot more potential than they are given credit for.

Third, the central problem faced by this generation is not a lack of realistic expectations, but a lack of opportunities.  The primary cause of unhappiness isn't that people haven't achieved their dreams, but that they see no opportunities in which to chase those dreams.  As Blizzard said, happiness is the journey, not the destination, but many young people find their journey blocked at every avenue.  As the article says, the baby boomers had they previous generation's support behind them, opening up opportunities for personal and financial success.  On the other hand, Generation Y is heavily discriminated against by older generations, and has very few opportunities to find a lasting career, join management, or create a startup company.

I could go on and on, but the thing that gets me about these articles is that they are telling unhappy people to stop being unhappy, like it's just flipping a switch.  Who goes up to a depressed person and says "cheer up bro, just stop being sad it's your own damn fault."  Assholes, that's who.

Blizzard

June 07, 2014, 05:12:36 pm #2 Last Edit: June 07, 2014, 05:20:40 pm by Blizzard
Quote from: winkio on June 07, 2014, 03:30:03 pm
I completely disagree with everything in this article.  It sets Generation Y up as a bunch of entitled idiots unable to cope with reality, thinking they are the only ones having a tough time.


Nah. It seemed more like setting Gen Y up as a bit spoiled. And I agree with this since there is a rising trend with it. Every year's generation is just a little bit more spoiled than the previous one. I'd say a 4-year difference is enough to notice it. People 4 years older than me seem more down to earth and people 4 years younger seem a bit more spoiled. Of course, I am just generalizing here and speaking from my own experiences.

Quote from: winkio on June 07, 2014, 03:30:03 pm
First, numerous social media outlets have proven that this generation knows that they are all getting screwed over (facebook, reddit, etc.).  A large number of young people are very aware of social issues ranging from dwindling social security to environmental deregulation to discrimination against young employees (requiring numerous years of experience), and are very expressive of their anger and frustration.  They do not look at their peers with jealousy, but with sympathy.


It feels more like people just keep complaining. If there was really such a serious issue, why isn't anybody doing anything? People are big with words, but when it's time to take action, their voices suddenly fall silent and the deux ex machina excuse is that "they can't do anything about it" which is basically translated as "no, I'm actually comfortable enough not to do anything, I just feel entitled that I should have it better, because all those celebrities and millionaires do". Don't mistake the habit of complaining for frustration. I'm not saying there isn't any frustration or anger, but people like to blow things out of proportion, especially if they can get sympathy for being the victim. Honestly, this trend of everybody acting like a victim is troubling me a bit.

Quote from: winkio on June 07, 2014, 03:30:03 pm
Third, the central problem faced by this generation is not a lack of realistic expectations, but a lack of opportunities.  The primary cause of unhappiness isn't that people haven't achieved their dreams, but that they see no opportunities in which to chase those dreams.  As Blizzard said, happiness is the journey, not the destination, but many young people find their journey blocked at every avenue. As the article says, the baby boomers had they previous generation's support behind them, opening up opportunities for personal and financial success.  On the other hand, Generation Y is heavily discriminated against by older generations, and has very few opportunities to find a lasting career, join management, or create a startup company.


I disagree partially. Yes, Gen Y does get discriminated. But especially since the rise of the Internet, there are so many opportunities out there that it's ridiculous. It's much easier to look for "classic" jobs and there are so many new areas and job types. I think that people don't realize it that we are in the middle of the golden age of opportunity. As you mentioned, we have education, technology and everything is connected. But none of this means anything unless you work hard for it. Even though things are easier than 50 years ago, this doesn't change the fact that you have to work for it. And now more than ever people find excuses not to work hard. They act like frustrated victims, how the world treats them unfairly and all that stuff. No one says "Yeah, I deserved this life, because I was a lazy piece of shit. When I get home, I just sit in front of the TV rather than being productive or trying to maybe get something started on my own". No, everybody just keeps complaining and blaming everybody else (parents, video games, TV, the government, society, whatever). They won't take responsibility for their own lives.

The main problem with opportunities isn't their lack. The problem is that people willingly close their eyes towards opportunities, because they equate opportunity with work and they don't want to work more (yet again that problem with entitlement). They make up excuses not to even try. And the human mind is horrifyingly good at lying to oneself just to protect one's self-image.

Quote from: winkio on June 07, 2014, 03:30:03 pm
Second, this generation actually is somewhat special compared to older generations.  Besides having the innate skills needed to work with new technology that older generations lack, most of them also have a considerably deeper and more rigorous education, due to the introduction of new teaching tools as well as an additional 20-30 years of knowledge/research.  Even without experience, this generation is far from useless, and individuals have a lot more potential than they are given credit for.


This actually validates my point above. It's not that this generation is useless. Heck, even the article says that people can get pretty far off in life. The problem is their perception. They don't realize how well they are doing so they think that their life sucks. People take way too much stuff for granted. And I can't blame them. If you live your entirely life in a society where electricity, food, water, cars, Internet, technology, etc. are at an abundance, it's just natural that you not tend to look at these things and say "yeah, this is pretty good" since you've never seen/experienced a worse reality.

Quote from: winkio on June 07, 2014, 03:30:03 pm
I could go on and on, but the thing that gets me about these articles is that they are telling unhappy people to stop being unhappy, like it's just flipping a switch.  Who goes up to a depressed person and says "cheer up bro, just stop being sad it's your own damn fault."  Assholes, that's who.


I disagree. At the very end they do say that you have to work for your happiness. It's not an instant thing.

EDIT: Just to be clear where I'm coming from and why I'm having this opinion. I've been there, I've done that. While you're in that frame of mind, you will probably notice that everybody seems to be in the same position as you. But if you can break free from it and stop doing this stuff (complaining, making up excuses not to take action, being the victim, etc.), you will realize that everybody else is still doing it and there's nothing you can do about it. They don't want to stop. Their little bubble is just comfortable enough not to take any risks. I always liked the matrix analogy here where you can see the shit that's going on, because you used to be part of it and people can't see it, because they can't see themselves objectively.
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Quote from: winkioI do not speak to bricks, either as individuals or in wall form.

Quote from: Barney StinsonWhen I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

Ryex

June 07, 2014, 10:04:56 pm #3 Last Edit: June 11, 2014, 12:29:43 am by Ryex
Odd. I'm going to simultaneously disagrees with both of you and the article and agree with at least one point form each of you and the article.

First I want to clarify some things I consider to be true. Generation Y or the "Millennials" Grew up during the transition form the industrial to the information age, the dawn of the computer, the post war era (because the cold war had finally well and truly ended, the last remains of the two world wars), the first generation to grow up with computers. Generation Z or the "post-millennials" as some like to call them are the first generation to grow up with personal computers computers. I was born in 92 and while that is technically generation Y I would consider myself more generation Z.

That article has one point I will agree with, well, two. One, generation Y did grow up being told they were special snowflakes, but I think most of them figured out it was utter bullocks. Two, for the most part Generation Y is unhappy with the state of the world; not because we are deluded, but because our parents (or rather the previous generation) screwed up, and we know it.

See, the Baby Boomers didn't grow up in the transition to the Information Age, that had it throw at then with unstoppable force in their adult lives. They were unprepared and unequipped to adapt to the changing world. Well perhaps that's a bit harsh, they did adapt, but they did it with the emotional and economic tools and life skills they already had, and those tools while capable had some side effects. Cooperations, the only current entirety capable of fronting the capital necessary for industrial investment on the scale the information age demanded, were already in pace and quickly ceased opportunists to grow having the. A company does not have emotion, it exists for the sole purpose of making it's investors more money and that what happened. The technology of the information age gave them opportunities and monetary capital ceased them.

But I digress form my point. The Baby boomers grow up being told that hard work would pave the way and every bit of success gained was theirs for the taking, that they deserved every bit of the dream they could hold in their hands, if they only worked hard enough. So they worked hard, did the job right even if the hated it, even if they would be stuck with it forever, worked for the financial security their parents told them was waiting. The boomers had and have an impressive and admirable work ethic instilled by their parents. The dawn of a new age brought on by their hard work brought with it golden opportunity. but no one could of foreseen the Dangers. when your an entity incapable of true emotion, moving forward on mindless paperwork it's easy for hundreds of small inconsequential decisions to be made because they will "improve performance" that lead to massive companies like Walmart and Monsanto that treat employees and customers alike as targets to be fleeced for all they have and do it legally.

With the dawn of the credit card and easy access to money you hadn't earned yet they faced yet another challenge, financial responsibility. The boomers had an unquestionable faith that every year they would work hard and their success would grow, that faith was confounded by the ever growing economy that road the dawn of the information age and the boom of the4 stock market.. As such it easy to see how they could justify using credit to buy things they could not afford yet. "That nice house and white picket fence? I'll be able to pay that off 30 years form now, nothing will happen to my security between now and then. My retirement pension I'll invest it in a 401k instead then I'll be even better off." WE all know what happened, The housing bubble that grew because everyone was buying their houses on extended loans with supper low interest? that was compounded by the unshakable faith in the ever improving future that causes home equity to skyrocket? it burst, along with a whole lot of other securities interest and we entered the great recession. The boomers saw their security starting to disappear well before it happened but instead of backing off and living more modestly. they refused to let their lifestyle slacken in their old age and poured mountains of effort into strengthening social security placing the burden, perhaps unintentionally, of their ever increasing health care (a by product of the advances they made in medical tech that increased their lifespans) on the government, forcing deficit spending, and building the national debt to it's current 17.5 trillion, almost 2 trillion more than the US GDP. and it's not JUST the US, Europe the rest of the 1st world had the same problem.

The result is a generation that had more opportunity and intelligence than they had foresight. They had it good, had kids and told then them world was awesome, that they could be anything. Then in an effort to make enough money to ensure that the world would stay awesome, perhaps thinking it would carry over for their kids without doing the math, fucked up. Those kids, Generation Y, saw the world change before their eyes, it went from a magical world of possibilities to an abysmal world that seems to be on the verge of tearing itself apart with extreme excesses. The rich got richer by roughly 30% and the pore got poorer by %50, the middle class is disappearing rapidly. The world is one where the power of information trumps the power of industrial effort. It a "Who and What you know that others don't" world now not the "Work hard, educate yourself, and take the inevitable opportunity" world our parents grew up in. And we know fear, fear for our immediate future, the worst kind.

Winkio's point about lack of opportunities? complacently valid. Blizz I don't think you realize how lucky you were to get in with a good company while you were still in school. Me? I'm shit out of luck I go looking for an opportunity like an internship or ANYTHING that could advance my career and I'm instantly laughed away "1.4 GPA?" they say, "we have an mandatory cut off of a 3.5", "but look at all the cool things I have done!" I say, "meh, if you had the gpa to back it up they would be impressive." and I'm sent away in shame. True I share blame in that,  I spent a good deal of my first years in college board out of my mind with the material so I procrastinated and my performance suffered. but lets look at that GPA requirement shall we? 3.5 3/4 of the way to perfect. Every class I've ever been in the final grades were curved so that the average student got about a c+ than means on average a student gets a 2.25 GPA. A 3.5 is something only a truly determined student can achieve, the type of determination you get from actually knowing exactly what you want to do with you life.  No, real opportunity that gets you a fulfilling career is only given to those who are "special" minorities, exemplary people, people who have already proven themselves, the top 20% of those who try. For the rest of us opportunity is a 7-5 job paying just above minimum wage, and even that is hard to come by. Case in point it took over 2 WEEKS for the place I'[m working for now to hire me AFTER I had accepted the offer of employment. because of a rigorous hiring process that required a criminal background check that couldn't even revival more than one speeding ticket with out recending the offer. and I had already worked for this pace for the last two summers.

But none of this has to do with personal happiness. One can be absolutely disgusted with the state of the world as I am and still be personally happy. It's a matter of scale and what you consider important. For me all that required for me to be happy is a small sense of security about the future, that I can keep going, and personal connections. If I have friends and family I can come home to I can't stay depressed or frustrated with the world.
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winkio

Quote from: Blizzard on June 07, 2014, 05:12:36 pm
But especially since the rise of the Internet, there are so many opportunities out there that it's ridiculous. It's much easier to look for "classic" jobs and there are so many new areas and job types. I think that people don't realize it that we are in the middle of the golden age of opportunity.


Just because it's easier to find opportunities doesn't mean that there are more out there.  In fact, it makes them even harder to get, as employers have a larger pool of applicants to choose from and can select those with the most experience, highest GPA, etc.

My earlier post does not describe the GenY mindset as one that I currently hold, but rather one that I think I understand.  I had no real problem getting a job, and I have had plenty of opportunities in my life, with very little discrimination, so I can't really sell myself as a victim.  But when I see people talking about this stuff on numerous places around the internet, I don't dismiss it as whining and complaining that results from a bad attitude.  I know that many people have it worse than me, and the answer to their problems is not the same as the answer to mine.

Blizzard

June 08, 2014, 06:23:50 am #5 Last Edit: June 08, 2014, 06:35:30 am by Blizzard
No, no, I don't mean that there aren't people who have it bad. I'm saying that a lot of people who aren't that bad off, but still keep complaining. And often when an opportunity comes their way to change and/or improve their life, they make excuses not to take it.

@Ryex: You got into the New Mexico Tech, didn't you? Are you saying that this wasn't an opportunity? I don't disagree that the world is harsh most of them time, but it's sometimes difficult to see where something is leading when you're still on the path.

An example about opportunity. In our country we had two recessions in the past years. Apparently it's now over, but the number of unemployed people is still growing and we have an unemployment percentage among the highest in Europe. My mom lost her job in January. In a shitty economy like this, she did find another job. Everybody in the entire country keeps complaining how there are no jobs. Yet my mother found not only one, no, she found 2 jobs and turned the first one down, because it paid the minimum wage. That was 2 months ago. Sure, she was 3 months without a job. Of course that's not a good thing. But what's special about my mom? Nothing. The only difference is that she kept looking vigorously for a new job instead of sitting at home, watching TV and blaming the government for everything. (I'm not saying it's not our government's fault, but being a lazy ass and just complaining gets us nowhere.)

But my point is actually an entirely different one. My point is that it's not just "hard work" that's important, it's also important what kind of work. If you "work hard" as a gardener, of course there is a limit to how far you can get. But if you just work as a gardener and in your free time you try to learn how to get a successful online business running to start your own company, that's an entirely different thing. Sure, the online market is getting more and more competitive. But 20 years ago there wasn't even such a thing. Or you could start a gardener pimping business. Find people who will do gardening and find people who need gardening done. Take a percentage of the earnings and if you grow enough, maybe you can start a business.

Quote from: Ryex on June 07, 2014, 10:04:56 pm
Winkio's point about lack of opportunities? complacently valid. Blizz I don't think you realize how lucky you were to get in with a good company while you were still in school. Me? I'm shit out of luck I go looking for an opportunity like an internship or ANYTHING that could advance my carrier and I'm instantly laughed away "1.4 GPA?" they say, "we have an mandatory cut off of a 3.5", "but look at all the cool things I have done!" I say, "meh, if you had the gpa to back it up they would be impressive." and I'm sent away in shame.


I think you are approaching the entire thing completely wrong. If their response is "meh, if you had the gpa to back it up they would be impressive.", then yours should be "Why? Because I know my priorities rather than waste time on learning nothing about everything? Because I specialize in what I want to do and do it well? Because I care more about having a skill that I can apply in a future career than just learn all the stuff they say in class and forget it a month later? Because I think it's more important to create new value than just please my teachers with the tasks they come up with? Excuse my language, but my job is doing XYZ, not being a prostitute." Ok, I may have gone over the top with the prostitute comment.

Quote from: Ryex on June 07, 2014, 10:04:56 pm
True I share blame in that,  I spent a good deal of my first years in college board out of my mind with the material so I procrastinated and my performance suffered.


Which exactly validates my point. But at least you understand that you did a mistake. That way you can avoid it in the future.
We all make mistakes and we all sometimes blame others for our own mistakes. That's normal. The important thing is that we understand that and take things from there.

Quote from: Ryex on June 07, 2014, 10:04:56 pm
but lets look at that GPA requirement shale we? 3.5 3/4 of the way to perfect. Every class I've ever been in the final grades were curved so that the average student got about a c+ than means on average a student gets a 2.25 GPA. A 3.5 is something only a truly determined student can acheave, the type of determination you get from actually knowing exactly what you want to do with you life.


I agree that 3.5 is way too high. But 3.5 isn't carved in stone. You can't judge everybody by the same standards of a flawed school system and companies know that. If an exceptional individual comes along, companies do consider employing them. With exceptional I don't mean "special", I mean "different". If you have somebody who's really passionate and dedicated, but just not dedicated in school, interviewers pick up on that.

Quote from: Ryex on June 07, 2014, 10:04:56 pm
No, real opportunity that gets you a fulfilling career is only given to thous who are "special" minorities, exemplary people, people who have already proven themselves, the top 20% of those who try. For the rest of us opportunity is a 7-5 job paying just above minimum wage, and even that is hard to come by. Case in point it took over 2 WEEKS for the place I'[m working for now to hire me AFTER I had accepted the offer of employment. because of a rigorous hiring process that required a criminal background check that couldn't even revival more than one speeding ticket with out recending the offer. and I had already worked for this pace for the last two summers.


Then become one of the top 20%. The rest is the rest because they choose to be the rest. With the Internet you have so much opportunity and knowledge at your disposal that it's ridiculous.

Example: You are looking for a certain job in a certain field? Use the Internet to make a list of companies that work in this of field, find out if they are hiring and contact them (or contact them to find out if they are hiring in the first place, lol).

Another example: You want a better job in the tech industry? What about Japan, how are they doing? Good? Ok, but you don't speak Japanese. No problem, use the Internet. There are online courses or you can find and download tapes or whatever. There are ways to learn Japanese without spending a dime. All you need is some time. It's not gonna be easy, but it can be done. You have that option available at all times. Tell me that this is not an opportunity that is dangling there at all times. For the rest of the process of finding a job in Japan, take the previous example.

And another one: Or maybe you are interested in sales. Let's say you want to get a web shop running and make a small company from that. Do you have a niche market or product? If yes, great, that will make things a bit easier along the road. If not, just try to find something that is profitable enough. How? Use the Internet. Google, search, research. Find out the whens, whats, hows. Educate yourself. Then start calling up the manufacturers for products and who would be interested in having their product available in your web shop. Maybe a PC parts web shop would be a great idea. And since it's a web shop, you don't even need to rent out space for the wares.

Yet another example: You love programming, but you don't really have what it takes to work on big projects, because you get easily bored? No problem, just register on multiple freelancer programmer websites and get started. Yet again the Internet is there for you. You can make a living off that. Sure, there's no retirement plan, but you could still do a private one at a bank or something like that.

These are only simple examples and none of them existed 20 years ago. The information we have available in this age is vast, but people don't realize what they can do with it. I agree that greater opportunities are "given" to people who have already proven themselves. But that only means that you haven't proven yourself YET. (Even though you clearly said that it helped you get that job because you worked for the last 2 summers there, lol!) Still, neither of these affects the constant opportunities that are all around you all the time. Of course, it's easier to say "but yeaaaaaaaaaaah, learning Japanese is hard and I don't want to go live in Japan." It's valid excuse, I'm not saying it's not. But it's still an excuse.

Quote from: Ryex on June 07, 2014, 10:04:56 pm
But none of this has to do with personal happiness. One can be absolutely disgusted with the state of the world as I am and still be personally happy. It's a matter of scale and what you consider important. For me all that required for me to be happy is a small sense of security about the future, that I can keep going, and personal connections. If I have friends and family I can come home to I can't stay depressed or frustrated with the world.


I agree. These things don't really have to be connected. As a matter of fact, you don't even need outside things to be happy. Most people think happiness is just one thing away. "If I get this, I will be happy." Be it a job, a girlfriend, a car, doesn't matter. And they may feel good about it for a few months, but then they realize that nothing has changed. They still aren't "happy". So happiness doesn't even have to be a journey. It can also be a decision. And none of this means that there aren't multiple degrees of happiness. You can be happy with your life right now, but if you choose to take action, you can become more happy since you will have even more going for you. To be happy, you first have to accept the current state of things and then take it from there.




I am very well aware that I was lucky to come across Kreso and that I work now at Cateia. I'm not denying that. But what about Daygames? It was an opportunity as well. It was there at all times. We started with nothing. Each one of us worked on our games in their free time. Yesterday I realized that we probably broke even with King of Booze looking at the money we earned, the time we spent on it and some arbitrary salary we could have gotten for that time. It took us a year and a half, but we broke even (solely with KOB, not our other games). By our estimation we're 6 to max. 12 months away from actually founding a company. The only reason why we haven't done it yet is purely financial and since we didn't know where KOB would go. KOB was completely free for the first 6 months and a year ago we added in-game ads. We started making a bit of money. It was huge for us. But not as huge as iOS last October. We actually started earning some respectable amount. Sure, it isn't still enough for a living, but we're getting there. We just need one more game to take off properly to justify actually founding a company. KOB is a somewhat niche market, so we can't rely on repeating its success just like that. We have to use more "traditional" ways of marketing. If one game works out with these methods, it means that we might have a business and marketing model that works well enough that we can apply it to other games and grow.

How did we do this? We seized opportunities AND took risks, because each opportunity is usually also somewhat of a risk. e.g. A simple example while we still weren't earning any money. When we added the term "drinking game" directly into the title of King of Booze, our weekly downloads on Google Play went up by 30%. Each time we did something "right", the number of weekly downloads increase by about 30%. We recently paid somebody to "optimize" our title and keywords (2 weeks ago) on iOS and while it's still early to estimate how much our weekly downloads have increased because of that, I think that it will be around 20%-30% altogether. But this time our profit increases as well, because on iOS the game is paid. We also paid 3 Magic Shots about 2 months ago to do a campaign for KOB, but they fucked up and that means $300 down the drain for nothing. (We were able to turn it around recently and now they will do minor 3 campaigns for 3 of our free games, but still.)

See my point? You can say we are lucky all you want, but fact is that we have tried many things and only a few worked. This isn't luck, this is hard work. Success is working hard and seizing opportunities. Sometimes an opportunity is just sheer luck, but it's an opportunity nonetheless.

Opportunities are everywhere, but people don't want to see them. "Wait. If there are so many opportunities and it's possible to be successful... if the little man can be successful, if the little man can 'win'... That means that I've been a little bitch all this time! Noooooooooooooooo!" Acknowledging these opportunities means acknowledging failure to see them before and people don't like feeling like they have been under-performing this whole time. Because, you know, they are special.

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Quote from: winkioI do not speak to bricks, either as individuals or in wall form.

Quote from: Barney StinsonWhen I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

Ryex

I edited my post, It's intention was to dispute that Generation Y in unhappy and assert that we are instead afraid and I think the edits make this more clear.
I no longer keep up with posts in the forum very well. If you have a question or comment, about my work, or in general I welcome PM's. if you make a post in one of my threads and I don't reply with in a day or two feel free to PM me and point it out to me.<br /><br />DropBox, the best free file syncing service there is.<br />

Blizzard

I agree with your points on financial security. I noticed that same trend in Croatia. People live on a month-to-month basis. They spend money that they don't have. When we have foreign visitors from other countries, they notice that. The problem here is that everybody wants to be rich and fancy and show off with money, even moreso than I noticed in other countries (e.g. Germany).
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Quote from: winkioI do not speak to bricks, either as individuals or in wall form.

Quote from: Barney StinsonWhen I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

Heretic86

Gen X and Y, at least in the US, are fully aware of how screwed they are.  Our unemployment rate here isnt at 6%, not even close.  Try 30%.  There are no jobs.  The remaining jobs have been cut down to part time only, thus, no health insurance, and with the decreased paycheck, its now either pay the rent, pay for food, or pay health insurance.

Its not that they feel entitled to anything, they just want an opportunity that no longer exists.
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Blizzard

As I said, the Internet provides lots of opportunity. People are just being lazy fucks.
Check out Daygames and our games:

King of Booze 2      King of Booze: Never Ever
Drinking Game for Android      Never have I ever for Android
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Quote from: winkioI do not speak to bricks, either as individuals or in wall form.

Quote from: Barney StinsonWhen I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

ForeverZer0

I hardly blame unemployment on a lack of jobs, I believe people are lazy fucks. This generation sits around waiting for opportunities instead of making their own, and that is the bottom line. Our modern government caters to and rewards this behavior by attempting to create a nanny state, and here we are.

Since when has unemployment reached 30%?
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Blizzard

June 11, 2014, 02:12:08 pm #11 Last Edit: June 11, 2014, 02:13:34 pm by Blizzard
Exactly. There may not be that many great jobs around, but there are jobs. People are just being lazy and often they will rather stay at home than work at e.g. a Walmart, because they are too proud for that. There are as many ways people are shooting themselves in the foot as there are opportunities.
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Heretic86

I dont think there are very many opportunities short of dealing drugs in cities like Detroit.  People have a better chance of getting accepted at Harvard than they do of getting a job at Wal Mart.  Its not pride, its lack of opportunity.  And yes, unemployment is at 30%.  Every time someones unemployment runs out, they are no longer considered part of the work force which dramatically lowers that unemployment rate, because 6% sounds a lot better than 30% politically.
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Where are you getting that kind of information? Getting into Harvard being more likely than getting a job at Wal-Mart sounds very, very far-fetched. How many students were accepted into Harvard last year? How many new employees were hired in Wal-Mart last year (all hired minus all fired)? And where did you get the information that the unemployment rate is 30%? To me this sounds like somebody took into account people that can't work such as teenagers or elderly that are retired, but haven't reached the retirement age yet. Those are heavy arguments you are making. Everybody expects that you at least back them up.
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Quote from: winkioI do not speak to bricks, either as individuals or in wall form.

Quote from: Barney StinsonWhen I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

Heretic86

I could point out all sorts of stats if you really want, it would just manage to derail the thread.  Point remains that Gen X&Y have seen their futures dry up, which is exactly my point as to why they (we) are unhappy.  Its not because theyre spoiled, its because the opportunities that existed for generations prior are gone.

Harvard:  Accepts about 4-5% of applicants.  Wal Mart hires about 1-2% of those that apply.  That should be a solid indication of how few other jobs there are when decently educated (non Harvard) people have no other places to apply for work at other than Wal Mart.  Trust me, its not because Wal Mart is such a great place to work, its because most of the other jobs are gone.

Stats that I could point links to wont convince you that the job market in the US has turned to shit, even tho it absolutely is.  There are barely any full time jobs.  Thanks to Obamacare (corpratized health coverage, IE, mandatory insurance with no care, not socialized health care either) most jobs here are now part time.  Theres also a big push to raise minimum wage.  Two sided coin.  A: employees would have enough to live on, barely.  B: due to increased pay, cant afford to keep as many employees, so many are laid off and let go.  Others will most likely be downgraded to part time.

The middle class jobs that come with a decent education, trade skills, or experience are gone.  There has been zero actual job growth in the US since 2008.  The result is a complete polarization of very very very high paying jobs (and only a few of them), and about the same number of minimum wage jobs.  The result of this is that everyone in the middle and at the bottom are now competing for those same jobs.  As a result, people with Masters Degrees (and an assload of debt) have no other choice than to apply at Wal Mart.  The number of bartenders and waitresses in this country with college degrees is staggering.  But the real problem is the debt that comes with it.  Working on a waitresses wages, one can not afford to make the payments on that education, and that debt does not go away even with bankruptcy.  Typical college educations cost at least as much as a house, but most of the time, much much more.  The number of student loans that are now in default is at all time record highs.  Higher interest rates and further penalties only further exaccerbate the situation.  The college educated people, Generation X, can no longer afford to live.  There is a new term thats been coined after them: The Educated Poor.

Does that sound like they are an entire generation of Lazy Bums?

In ten years time, do not be suprised if you see the US Govt collapse the way the USSR did.  When the USSR collapsed, most people around the world did not consider those citizens to be lazy.  It was pretty damn well clear that most of those citizens ended up in a very bad situation through no fault of their own.  The US should be well known by now for playing Mind Games, Art of War shit, appear strong when you are weak, etc.  When the US talks about Unemployment, they dont consider the 90 million people that are no longer considered part of the work force.  Most of these people did not retire.  They are simply not factored into the statistic and usually do not talk much about where that statistic comes from.  I'll agree completely that certain people need to be excluded from the work force, such as students, children, retired, independantly wealthy, etc.  But for those that want to work, they are not counted as Unemployed.  For example, if a person here has a Realtors license, they do not count.  If they were fired from their previous job for ANY reason, they are not counted because they are not collecting Unemployment Benefits.  However if those numbers presented by the Govt get too high, people start gathering in masses and hope to start changing things.  Keeping the official unemployment number low is good propoganda, thats all.  Trust me, if there were riots in the streets here the way there are in the Ukraine, they would NOT report on it.

None of my friends are employed.  Out of about 15 people that I used to hang out with at least semi-regularly, only two of them have regular jobs, one of them had to move out of state to get that job.  The other guy knew somebody that knew somebody, but I wasnt really close with them.  The rest of us have to take what we can get, minimum wage temp jobs that typically expire after a few weeks.  These people that I knew, usually brothers and sisters of friends and co-workers have all been knocked on their asses from this economic crash.  For the people I do see (and dont know), they have no idea how bad things are getting here, and they live here!  My kid "wont get a job".  Thats what they think.  Just graduated high school, not ready for college or military, but they call them lazy and really think that they wont put forth any effort into getting a job.  Getting a job here any more requires extrordinary effort and luck, with the lowest possible return there is, often less.  Just because one person has a job does not mean another job exists for everyone that is out of work, but is severely distorts their perspective on the situation.

Not a rant, just loads of data.  I go through this daily with too many people to bother linking here, I come here because I dont want to think about how bad the future is, not because I want to be reminded of it everywhere I go on the web.
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Blizzard

June 12, 2014, 07:11:14 am #15 Last Edit: June 12, 2014, 07:16:54 am by Blizzard
Quote from: Heretic86 on June 12, 2014, 05:39:52 am
Harvard:  Accepts about 4-5% of applicants.  Wal Mart hires about 1-2% of those that apply.  That should be a solid indication of how few other jobs there are when decently educated (non Harvard) people have no other places to apply for work at other than Wal Mart.  Trust me, its not because Wal Mart is such a great place to work, its because most of the other jobs are gone.


5% of 1000 is still less than 1% of 10000.

Quote from: Heretic86 on June 12, 2014, 05:39:52 am
Stats that I could point links to wont convince you that the job market in the US has turned to shit, even tho it absolutely is.  There are barely any full time jobs.  Thanks to Obamacare (corpratized health coverage, IE, mandatory insurance with no care, not socialized health care either) most jobs here are now part time.  Theres also a big push to raise minimum wage.  Two sided coin.  A: employees would have enough to live on, barely.  B: due to increased pay, cant afford to keep as many employees, so many are laid off and let go.  Others will most likely be downgraded to part time.


I'm not saying that the situation hasn't become somewhat worse in the last years, but we are talking about an entire generation here. Focusing on just one economical crisis in the past few years seems silly.

Quote from: Heretic86 on June 12, 2014, 05:39:52 am
The middle class jobs that come with a decent education, trade skills, or experience are gone.  There has been zero actual job growth in the US since 2008.


You are still not giving me any references. I can say that the gaming industry is worth $90 bil. and the movie industry $80 bil., but without any references these numbers are meaningless.

Quote from: Heretic86 on June 12, 2014, 05:39:52 am
The result is a complete polarization of very very very high paying jobs (and only a few of them), and about the same number of minimum wage jobs.  The result of this is that everyone in the middle and at the bottom are now competing for those same jobs.  As a result, people with Masters Degrees (and an assload of debt) have no other choice than to apply at Wal Mart.  The number of bartenders and waitresses in this country with college degrees is staggering.  But the real problem is the debt that comes with it.  Working on a waitresses wages, one can not afford to make the payments on that education, and that debt does not go away even with bankruptcy.  Typical college educations cost at least as much as a house, but most of the time, much much more.  The number of student loans that are now in default is at all time record highs.  Higher interest rates and further penalties only further exaccerbate the situation.  The college educated people, Generation X, can no longer afford to live.  There is a new term thats been coined after them: The Educated Poor.


Not a lot of people in the Generation X have a college education. Even in Generation Y the percentage of college educated people is low. It's not like 70% has a college education. You are taking a minority of people and applying their standards to everybody else. This doesn't make sense in this context.

Quote from: Heretic86 on June 12, 2014, 05:39:52 am
Does that sound like they are an entire generation of Lazy Bums?


No, it sounds that college educated people think all they have to do is finish college and they are set for life. That's not lazy, that's somewhat spoiled and deluded. College gives a head start and prepares you for certain things, it doesn't compress 40 years of working into 5 years of studying and then being lazy.

Quote from: Heretic86 on June 12, 2014, 05:39:52 am
In ten years time, do not be suprised if you see the US Govt collapse the way the USSR did.  When the USSR collapsed, most people around the world did not consider those citizens to be lazy. It was pretty damn well clear that most of those citizens ended up in a very bad situation through no fault of their own.


Lol, what? The USSR collapsed, because 1 person worked while other 9 were being lazy fucks (among other things). The remnants of the communist mindset is the generation before mine in my country. Yes, 1 works while 9 sit around, drink coffe, talk and won't do shit which is one reason why my country is getting worse and people have started losing jobs here heavily. We have relatively 10 times as many bureaucrats as Germany. (I think we had 40k while Germany has 80k and we have a population of 4 mil. while Germany has 80 mil.)

Quote from: Heretic86 on June 12, 2014, 05:39:52 am
The US should be well known by now for playing Mind Games, Art of War shit, appear strong when you are weak, etc.  When the US talks about Unemployment, they dont consider the 90 million people that are no longer considered part of the work force.  Most of these people did not retire.  They are simply not factored into the statistic and usually do not talk much about where that statistic comes from.  I'll agree completely that certain people need to be excluded from the work force, such as students, children, retired, independantly wealthy, etc.  But for those that want to work, they are not counted as Unemployed.


Again, where are you getting these numbers from?
But as far as I see it, yes, people who are above the retirement age should not be considered work force, regardless if they want to work or not. Working teenagers aren't work force either.

Quote from: Heretic86 on June 12, 2014, 05:39:52 am
For example, if a person here has a Realtors license, they do not count.  If they were fired from their previous job for ANY reason, they are not counted because they are not collecting Unemployment Benefits.


This is definitely wrong. But I still see no references.

Quote from: Heretic86 on June 12, 2014, 05:39:52 am
However if those numbers presented by the Govt get too high, people start gathering in masses and hope to start changing things.  Keeping the official unemployment number low is good propoganda, thats all.  Trust me, if there were riots in the streets here the way there are in the Ukraine, they would NOT report on it.


Yeah, media control sucks, I agree. Trying to control people with fear and misinformation. The problem is that it's very effective. :/

Quote from: Heretic86 on June 12, 2014, 05:39:52 am
None of my friends are employed.  Out of about 15 people that I used to hang out with at least semi-regularly, only two of them have regular jobs, one of them had to move out of state to get that job.  The other guy knew somebody that knew somebody, but I wasnt really close with them.  The rest of us have to take what we can get, minimum wage temp jobs that typically expire after a few weeks.  These people that I knew, usually brothers and sisters of friends and co-workers have all been knocked on their asses from this economic crash.  For the people I do see (and dont know), they have no idea how bad things are getting here, and they live here!  My kid "wont get a job".  Thats what they think.  Just graduated high school, not ready for college or military, but they call them lazy and really think that they wont put forth any effort into getting a job.  Getting a job here any more requires extrordinary effort and luck, with the lowest possible return there is, often less.  Just because one person has a job does not mean another job exists for everyone that is out of work, but is severely distorts their perspective on the situation.


I'm saddened to hear that, but take into account that you can't extrapolate your immediate environment to the entire country. e.g. I always wondered how it's possible that such clueless people are in our government when everybody I know knows that they suck. Then I realized that I was in the best university in the country. Of course people who aren't idiots go there. But that's the minority. The majority of the country doesn't understand that their favorite politicians have almost ruined the entire country.

Quote from: Heretic86 on June 12, 2014, 05:39:52 am
Not a rant, just loads of data.  I go through this daily with too many people to bother linking here, I come here because I dont want to think about how bad the future is, not because I want to be reminded of it everywhere I go on the web.


I understand. But please, if you don't want to back your arguments up and reference stuff, don't enter these kind of discussions. It just makes you seem like a bitter ass.
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Quote from: winkioI do not speak to bricks, either as individuals or in wall form.

Quote from: Barney StinsonWhen I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

ForeverZer0

The very fact that people complain about it, and defend the reasons for unemployment is indicative of the problem. These past generations who supposedly had so much more opportunity would have been ashamed to jobless, and instead of blaming it on 1000 other reasons, would have simply did something about it, and make their own opportunity. There are plenty of incredible stats flying around on this thread, so I ask you: of your 15 jobless friends, how many were denied a job at WalMart because someone with a master's degree got it?

I have yet personally or known anyone who could not get a job who was really trying for it. Never, not once.
I am done scripting for RMXP. I will likely not offer support for even my own scripts anymore, but feel free to ask on the forum, there are plenty of other talented scripters that can help you.

Blizzard

Same here. Sure, I know people who have trouble finding a job. But those same people always have an excuse. Even things like not going to an interview "because they won't take me anyway" were said.
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Quote from: winkioI do not speak to bricks, either as individuals or in wall form.

Quote from: Barney StinsonWhen I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

Heretic86

Oh ok.

I guess all those unemployed people in Greece and Spain deserve their fates too.  They did this to themselves.  It wasnt banks.  It wasnt their economies.  It was ALL their fault that they dont have jobs.  All those freshly graduated kids dont have jobs because they arent trying hard enough.  I suppose the Ukranians did this to themselves too.  Bernie Madoffs clients lost their fortunes and it was their own fault.  So was Enron.  And the Indians decided to wipe themselves out.  Its my fault when my employer goes out of business cuz no ones buying the stuff were trying to sell.  Its peoples own fault over half of people here have sub-prime credit, not the jobs.  Its peoples own fault tht food inflation is at 22%.  Yeah, boohoo for us when county and state pensions continue to be cut, its our own fault.  Because were all Lazy.

Riiiiiight.

Keep living in your dream world.  Eventually it will grow in scope and size, turn into a full blown nightmare, and bite you both hard in the ass.  Were on the verge of a worldwide economic collapse, that is apparently all the fault of a Lazy generation.  Oh, I see where the Y comes from now.  This is why I dont bother debating politics here.  As coders and scripters, you guys are great.  But understanding the world around you, and what is really happening, politics, enonomics, lies, yeah, not so much.  Enjoy the dream while it lasts.
Current Scripts:
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Blizzard

June 12, 2014, 09:40:59 am #19 Last Edit: June 12, 2014, 09:42:01 am by Blizzard
Straw man argument and Argumentum ad hominem. What's next, Reductio ad Hitlerum? If you can't have a civilized discussion, please don't respond anymore.

Yes, I totally looked up the names of these just so I could piss you off some more since you obviously are very emotional about the subject.
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Quote from: winkioI do not speak to bricks, either as individuals or in wall form.

Quote from: Barney StinsonWhen I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.