The Obligation of Intelligence

Started by Ryex, October 08, 2014, 01:58:08 am

Previous topic - Next topic

Ryex

Ok, I'm going to start sounding like a broken record soon. I hold myself as the most intelligent person I know. I Recognise this as arrogance.

that said a new show started airing on CBS called Scorpion. it's premise is that it's based partially on the real life experiences of Walter O'Brien the CEO Scorpion Computer Services. the main character is Walter O'Brien (played by a much younger and handsome guy) who, with his IQ 197 (thats the real Walter's IQ), solved unsolvable problems with his team of similarly "Enabled" friends. The real Walter acts as a producer for the show.

I'll cut this short and say that it's the only show I've ever seen where the techno babble is coherent and accurate, sure it will fly over most people's head but I understand it.

Here's the problem, the show is supposed to as I understand it deliver a drama of fasted paced problem solving while relating the more emotional deficiencies of the team through the "Normal" public relations team member, Page. She is supposed to be the relatable character for the public.

I Identify HEAVILY with Walter. as in I see my own thought processes and actions, personal delima's like the panicking and feeling helpless to solve any problem when I can't solve one which happens in the pilot etc.


It's clear to me that this show is Walter's personal wish fulfillment attempt but It's also quickly become my favorite show even though the writing is a bit lackluster. That characters at least are completely genuine in their gifts, disabilities, and interactions.


Ok so now to my point. The comments on the episodes.
I watch on Couchtuner
from the coment I can tell the show won't have a renew season, I'm ok with that, it's just not written from the right perspective for the public to relate and attach to it enough to make it a blockbuster despite it's great production quality. But, as is human nature when people don't understand something, It's being picked apart to find every perceived flaw. But the flaws they are trying to find? arn't there.

Example one. The show takes place in LA, and in the first episode after the pilot they are tracing a hacker who has attacked the governor's daughter with a bio and computer virus both crafted to target her and only her. In the analysis Walter recognises a design pattern in the process used to disguise the virus origin. Ke know sthe company that developed it. the company is in LA so they drive to it.

The problem with this according to a 20 comment long chain raggin on this particular point is that it makes no sense. HE just happens to recognise this pattern, which just happens to belong to a firm in LA with in driving distance, instead of somewhere else because "realistically" it could've come from anywhere. and he as an expert hacker drives to the firm itself instead of hacking in and finding what he needs. OMG PLOT HOLES! or so the lay person thinks.

See I understand EXACTLY why the writer wrote it this way (who was probably guided by the real Walter). because as implausible as the situation over all is the specifics of how it's playing out are dead on. statistically speaking an attack of this sort, of this specificity especially since it involves a bio agent that had to be given to the daughter. it could ONLY (well like 99.9%) of been done by someone local.
=As for driving to the location instead of hacking in like he did with the LAX security cams (but not with the data back up center, another supposed plot hole from the pilot). Anyone with any experience with network design knows that live hacking a defended network is not anywhere near as possible as hollywood has made it seem over the last few years. Real hacking takes weeks of planning stacking known vulnerabilities in the software deployed in the target and usually some sort of personal knowledge of the human element behind the target to get a good guess at the more obscure details of the setup. Real hacking is something you do when getting direct physical access would take MORE work . IF you know the place is local and you have the government backing you up you dont hack a server when you can get direct access.

On and on the flawed arguments and logic goes.

OK sure, these are internet arguments I can't really expect much, but as read them I felt an overwhelming urge to correct each and every one of the dimwits who only half thought through their logic. and I realised something. I'm doing the same thing every day in my real life I see idiots everywhere, I see idiots calling other people idiots. I see hypocrites, and willful ignorance on a daily basis. and very rarely do I meet people with the mental capacity to truly understand me when I start laying out an argument. Sometimes I THINK I have and then they say "oh ya I totally know what you mean!" and use an intermediate conclusion of my argument when there was much more and treat it like that was my end game. Outwardly I'm all "ya thats what I'm talking about" because atleast they half grasped it and I've learned not to try and go further as they get lost or get upset with me; but inside I'm all " No you dumb shit it goes much deeper than that".


Back to the show" Walter's character has expressed similar sentiments abet with much more agreeable and relatable wording and would likely offend people less. The more I watch the more I see my own thoughts and actions there.

Sometimes I find myself thinking that the world would be such much better off if only the truly smart people were in power and universally respected, that our decisions and opinions were given more weight than the layman's. how much more efficient the world would run and how much better off we would be if all the dumbfucks would stop TOUCHING everything and messing with our hard work.
" No you dipshit, these are carefully crafted formulas, the result of years of academic study, scientific experimentation etc. you you change that it will it throws everything out of balance!" "but it I don't believe you." "yes, instead you trust that guy over there who makes big promises without a 20th of our evidence just because he's more personable and has a bigger smile, dumbfuck". But then I come back to the point that I'm the minority. these people need to live their lives too and so I must be even smarter and find a solution where they don't feel left out of the progress of society.

If you've watched american news you've probably heard of a big hualabalu over a Denver area school board trying to form a review committee of the AP american history courses to remove "unpatriotic material", oh and they also wanted to link teacher salaries to performance reviews that used such unsophisticated ratings as "effective, partially effective, ineffective," etc. there was student walkouts in the thousands to protest, teachers called in sick in such numbers schools had to be shut down. basically a big deal for the local communities. the media tried to smooth it over calling the students "pawns" of the teachers who were "just unhappy about the performance based salaries" a media spin if' I've ever hear one.
All of this the result of a group of three conservatives teaming up to get themselves elected to five position school board to get a majority. all the votes on the matters that caused strife were split 3/5 along the party lines. you see conservative have be quietly trying to muddle in academics for years because they feel there is a liberal bias in our educational system. Because you know, academia has a liberal bias. Academies a world so absorbed in science it rarely give two hoots about politics outside itself is liberally biased.

Ya know, if SCIENCE is liberally biased. You know the discipline that is the sole source of all societal progress dating to the beginning of man. then just maybe, perhaps, there just might be something fundamentally WRONG with conservatism. When your campaign relies on mudslinging, misinformation, fear mongering, and spinning facts? you just might be wrong. mabey.

^^ that I suppose is the true purpose of my rant I guess. It seems to me that the majority of society is so dense, ignorant and blind they they let themselves be misinformed about important issues.
Now to be clear I'm neither Republican nor Democrat, I am and always will be unaffiliated both parties get things wrong candidates from either side are never perfect for their roles. but you know what? we're human, you can only ever ask for the personal best of the candidates.

I'll leave it at this:

if you allow yourself to be misinformed and don't strive to correct it when proven wrong? I consider you below me, end of story. If you spin facts to make your argument appear more valid? your trash. If you refuse to acknowledge scientific findings because they are inconvenient and use such excuses as "it's a theory, it's unproven!" your incompetent and a fool. If you do anything other than strive to find the most current empirically based data and use it to make your decisions your are unfit to do any sort of leadership or management. IF you look at the world through rose colored glasses you're a deluded halfwit.

I don't care what your station is in life or how smart you think you are, if you're not forever trying to improve every aspect yourself and the world around you? you not living, your dull and unimportant. It's not the success that matters, it's the attempt. I'm sorry, but no one is born equal. we don't even all have the same potential. but we're all important as we can all improve and help better each other. every one of us can keep the wheels of society turning in some way.

If you can't accept that, if you're too absorbed in achieving some sort of personal glory to help someone else achieve theirs. get out of the way.


I think I got a bit off my original topic. I was talking about myself up there at the top of this wall of text.  Me I see it like this, I functional at a higher level than most everyone I've ever met and whiel I see stupidity all around me I'm not spiteful of the world, quite the contrary I feel it is my duty, my obligation and purpose as an enabled person to guide, to impart knowledge wherever I can, to learn more and more and progress us as a species. It is the Obligation of Intelligence to move forward and leave no one behind.
I no longer keep up with posts in the forum very well. If you have a question or comment, about my work, or in general I welcome PM's. if you make a post in one of my threads and I don't reply with in a day or two feel free to PM me and point it out to me.<br /><br />DropBox, the best free file syncing service there is.<br />

winkio

If you really think your intelligence is that extraordinary, you should put it to work at problem solving competitions.  It's easy to think you are at the top when you have so little competition, but try competing on a national or international stage and you will quickly find yourself out of your depth.  This is not to say that you don't have the potential to be at the top some day, just that there is no way you are even close right now.

I also find it ironic that despite referring to all the complexities of your intelligence, your actual world view is fairly limited, generalized, and simplified.  It boils down to "hey, let's give all the power to the smart people and everything will be great."  You don't think smart people can make terrible decisions?  You don't think smart people can make mistakes?  If you give power to only one group, they will eventually end up screwing over everyone else.  History has shown that time and time again.

Does a smart person like yourself understand the consequences of growing up without a father?  Does a smart person like yourself understand the consequences of growing up poor, having to work a job nights and weekends through high school?  Does a smart person like yourself understand the consequences of childhood violence, poor nutrition, household abuse, divorced parents, life-threatening illness, saving another's life, war, extensive volunteer work, etc.?  Are all these experiences that everyone else brings to the table worthless because they aren't as good at math or logic as you are?

Take another look at the world.  It's not just a few groups of people progressing in straight lines.  It's an enormously complex system with a wide spectrum of possibilities.  Progress is not just forwards or backwards, there are twists and turns and loops and all sorts of chaos.

ForeverZer0

Although most good leaders do have a fair amount of intelligence, it is not necessarily a required virtue to be a great leader, as winkio pointed out. There is far more than an IQ that defines a good leader, or how good/bad a person is.
I am done scripting for RMXP. I will likely not offer support for even my own scripts anymore, but feel free to ask on the forum, there are plenty of other talented scripters that can help you.

chaucer

Apologies for posting in this forum for intelligent debates, I apolagize cause i'm neither intelligent nor here to debate just thought I'd put in my two cents as this caught my eye. I agree with ryex on a few points he's pretty spot on about the mindset of most people these days, a lot of people are very dense and refuse believe anything they're told except by the news and or officials, most even I would say are cynical as well, however its not they're fault(for the most part). Also having smart leaders could be good or bad, as a good leader needs to have positive morals as well and common sense and some intelligence which I in my case, I've found a lot of brilliant minds lacked common sense. Also about considering yourself intelligent, its a bad idea, remember no matter who you are there will/can be someone smarter, I'm not trying to offend you or anything cause I understand where you're coming from. I'm just saying the minute you feel everyone is beneath you that's the minute you stop learning, just because someone isn't as intelligence doesn't mean the person doesn't have any knowledge, which could be knowledge you aren't yet privy to(no matter how dense or cynical they may be). There is always more knowledge to be obtained so it's always best to keep an open mind to everyone no matter how smart you feel you can ALWAYS be smarter, I guess is my point. Sorry if I've insulted anyone

Ryex

October 08, 2014, 07:57:27 pm #4 Last Edit: October 08, 2014, 09:46:09 pm by Ryex
I regretted writing this as soon as I posted it because I know I didn't write it well enough for people not to read the wrong things in it. That, and I'm pretty sure my frustration with my family's inability to see the stupidity of voting for politicians based on one or two "hot issues" without taking into account their economic ideas and record.

Ok, clarification time.

Quote from: winkio on October 08, 2014, 03:13:54 am
If you really think your intelligence is that extraordinary, you should put it to work at problem solving competitions.  It's easy to think you are at the top when you have so little competition, but try competing on a national or international stage and you will quickly find yourself out of your depth.  This is not to say that you don't have the potential to be at the top some day, just that there is no way you are even close right now.


This was probably the biggest flaw in my first post. I didn't state clearly enough that I use this as a stabilizer for my own ego. I may or may not be the smartest person I've ever met, and while I've seen plenty of proof in support that I'm far smarter than average I've also seen and experienced proof that I'm an absolute dumbass. However If my personality is always "I'm smarter than everyone" (now to be clear I do not mean "I know more than everyone" merely that I have the potential to surpass everyone If I put in the effort) then I'm always at a high self esteem and I have every incentive to ensure I say that smart less I damage my own ego. I will eventually, but it gives me the motivation to constantly improve myself and avoid it as long as possible.

Quote from: winkio on October 08, 2014, 03:13:54 am
I also find it ironic that despite referring to all the complexities of your intelligence, your actual world view is fairly limited, generalized, and simplified.  It boils down to "hey, let's give all the power to the smart people and everything will be great."  You don't think smart people can make terrible decisions?  You don't think smart people can make mistakes?  If you give power to only one group, they will eventually end up screwing over everyone else.  History has shown that time and time again.


I started of that paragraph with "I sometimes think" for a reason. Thats not what I truly believe, it's only when I get frustrated and shortsighted that I come back to this idea.

For one putting only the "smart people" in charge would severely limit the pool of ideas to draw from and would serve only to alienate the vast majority of the population from it's government.  Smart people absolutely CAN make terrible decisions they are as vulnerable to stress and bad logic as any human, however they are a lot better at picking out the good ideas and iterating on them to improve them. as such I maintain that only those who are capable of intelligent analysis of situations and adaptive application of the knowledge obtained by others should be allowed to lead.

Quote from: winkio on October 08, 2014, 03:13:54 am
Does a smart person like yourself understand the consequences of growing up without a father?  Does a smart person like yourself understand the consequences of growing up poor, having to work a job nights and weekends through high school?  Does a smart person like yourself understand the consequences of childhood violence, poor nutrition, household abuse, divorced parents, life-threatening illness, saving another's life, war, extensive volunteer work, etc.?  Are all these experiences that everyone else brings to the table worthless because they aren't as good at math or logic as you are?


I never intended to imply anything like this but I can see where you might of gotten that impression. while I DO know the effects of a good half of those things as I've seen the effects of most of them in friends I've had over the years or currently have. heck I've spent the last two years working alongside a guy in a halfway house. talking to him, getting to know him, how he ended up where he was, watched as he tried to improve himself and seen the results of both his successes and his failures. He's almost been regressed back to prison three times now. My world view has expanded immensely form just second hand exposure to his life experience.

A true leader does not try to do and lead everything themselves, they collect the wisdom from those around them and analyse it to find the best solutions. No one person can experience all of the facets of life but leaders should be capable of understanding them, know that those who experience that which they do not have something valuable to share, and be able to apply all their gained knowledge to whatever task or issues faced by those they lead.

Quote from: winkio on October 08, 2014, 03:13:54 am
Take another look at the world.  It's not just a few groups of people progressing in straight lines.  It's an enormously complex system with a wide spectrum of possibilities.  Progress is not just forwards or backwards, there are twists and turns and loops and all sorts of chaos.


I never said there was only way to progress forward. only that we as human beings have an obligation to make the best decisions possible in every aspect of our lives. the only way to ensure that our decisions are the best they can be to to seek out all the knowledge we can and apply it to our lives. those who don't seek to constantly better themselves and those around them serve only to drag everyone back.

Quote from: ForeverZer0 on October 08, 2014, 09:51:10 am
Although most good leaders do have a fair amount of intelligence, it is not necessarily a required virtue to be a great leader, as winkio pointed out. There is far more than an IQ that defines a good leader, or how good/bad a person is.


I both disagree and agree with you. Intellect is not all there is to a good leader but it required. a high level of intelligence is a necessary but not sufficient quality for a good leader.
Also an IQ is not the only or even the best way to measure intelligence. there are many different kinds and way to be intelligent. but the kind that is needed for leadership is both analytical and empathetic.


I'll restate my final point from the first post.

Far too many people in the world are blind sheep. it's not that they are sheep that is the problem it's that they fail to differentiate between the good shepherd leading them to water and the bad shepherd leading them off a cliff.

It comes down to this. if your a sheep thats fine, but you have an obligation to yourself and your future as well as those around you to find the best shepherd you can. if you have the intellect to be a shepherd you have an obligation to yourself, and all who follow you lead to be the best dam shepherd the world has ever seen and find the best grass and the best water for you flock and always search for something better.
I no longer keep up with posts in the forum very well. If you have a question or comment, about my work, or in general I welcome PM's. if you make a post in one of my threads and I don't reply with in a day or two feel free to PM me and point it out to me.<br /><br />DropBox, the best free file syncing service there is.<br />

WhiteRose

October 08, 2014, 09:27:21 pm #5 Last Edit: October 08, 2014, 09:28:30 pm by WhiteRose
I feel that there are different categories of intelligence, with significant overlap though still enough distinction for each be prominent in its own way. I also feel that each of these categories of intelligence can be individually developed through practice and use. Some people way be more naturally inclined towards some fields of intelligence than others and may be inclined to develop more quickly in those fields than other individuals, but with enough practice, nearly anyone can achieve high levels of intelligence, to at least some degree.
However, in my opinion, the problem is that modern society (often including large parts of the educational system) promotes reaching only an adequate level of intelligence in necessary fields, whether it be to achieve a certain level of salary, a certain job title, or some other goal determined by the individual, and then stalling in complacence. If the goals were high enough, this wouldn't be a problem, as people would have, during the process of reaching their goal, gained a broad enough amount of practice and development in necessary fields of intelligence to reach logical, rational decisions in their life circumstances, whether it be political decisions, internet forum discussions, or otherwise. However, from what I've seen, people often don't even desire to reach these higher standards of intelligence, and instead reach their level of complacence at a much lower development of intelligence, leading to the birth of the aforementioned sheep, along with some of the "wonderful" personalities encountered on the internet and other places filled with seemingly... lesser mortals. Haha.
Obviously, this is abstracting a little more than is completely reasonable, as some people may, due to circumstances beyond their control, be effectively capped at the amount of practice they are able to give certain skills and areas of development, but generally speaking, I feel that people could be more intelligent if they put forth more effort to become so.
Another problem that is only semi-related is a general lack of empathy and kindness towards others, particularly on the internet and now leaking out into physical interactions, though that is more of a topic for another thread.

(I don't post often in intelligent debate, so hopefully this is a meaningful contribution to the discussion and not just my own rambling. Sorry about that.)

chaucer

Definitely agree, with most of what you guys are saying, however, I don't find it a problem with the people not wanting to learn, I feel if someones truly passionate about something they are willing to strive to get they're goals accomplished, I feel It's more the economy and the way the school systems/colleges function, more than anything. Most people work at jobs they hate because they couldn't accomplish what they really wanted, be it financial issues, family troubles etc, it's not entirely those peoples faults for not being enthusiastic about learning. Also who honestly can say they enjoy sitting in a building listening to someone speak and or reading for hours on end, if the teachers would be more enthralling in they're teaching things might be different, but for the most part they too don't really care about they're job and are merely there for a paycheck. and as for people being sheep it's sad but true, people should be they're own "shepherds" we are all born as free people who have the ability to think and do thing's for ourselves, I'm not saying we should seclude ourselves from others, but we should not have to rely on others for our guidance we are all capable of making our own choices, but we have become complacent with being sheep for so long that that's just how our society functions. Anyway just my opinion, sorry I kinda strayed a bit from the topic..

Blizzard

First off, thinking that you are the most intelligent person you know is not arrogance. Arrogance is only when you think it makes you better than everyone else.
Secondly, there are a multitude of different intelligences. Somebody can have a high logical intelligence, but suck at social, emotional, linguistic and all other intelligences. Basically what WhiteRose already said.

Quote^^ that I suppose is the true purpose of my rant I guess. It seems to me that the majority of society is so dense, ignorant and blind they they let themselves be misinformed about important issues.


This is soooo true. But this is just one part of the problem. Another part is that they don't really care and don't even want to know the truth. They live in blissful ignorance and they are fine with that. Which is IMO a much worse problem. My advice is: Stop trying to help them. Stop trying to explain it to them. Most people probably would be able to understand it, but the mere fact that they are completely turning away from these things, dampens their understanding of the problem. Or in other words: It's new to them, they can't understand it so quickly.

Quote"it's a theory, it's unproven!"


Everything is just a theory. If somebody says something like that, you might as well start arguing whether objective reality is a thing and about the essence of existence, whether we all exist or not. "I think so I am", but you don't know if everybody else exists and you never will.

But regardless of the fact that I agree with you partially, you are leaving out one very important and major detail: Human emotion. When emotion enters the playing field, irrational statements will be made and defended. Getting past these emotions is something most people can't do. So give them a break. They are not necessarily idiots. We all say something stupid from time to time. If you can understand their viewpoint, you will stop being angry for them being "stupid". And I don't mean their opinion on the matter, but their actual viewpoint, their actual situation as a whole that is a result of their entire life experiences and personality. e.g. If somebody says "No, the government is doing great", it will not make you angry if you understand that they grew up in a household where trust in the government was essential.

In regards to your second post:

If you can "damage" your ego, you don't have a high self-esteem. Self-esteem is the absence of ego. Or in other words, an attacked ego is the doubt of oneself which is the opposite of self-esteem. That means that having an ego directly means that you have a self-image to protect which then again means that you don't have true self-esteem.
Check out Daygames and our games:

King of Booze 2      King of Booze: Never Ever
Drinking Game for Android      Never have I ever for Android
Drinking Game for iOS      Never have I ever for iOS


Quote from: winkioI do not speak to bricks, either as individuals or in wall form.

Quote from: Barney StinsonWhen I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.