Blizz-ABS vs. XAS

[RoseSkye]

I never really liked Blizz ABS it was like a controller with too many buttons.

It is pretty advanced, but it's too advanced for rpg maker.

[Memor-X]

It is pretty advanced, but it's too advanced for rpg maker.

if it was, it wouldn't work, but it's like all things really, in the eyes of someone who is just started using RPG Maker XP of Blizz-ABS it's real advance but once you can master the power of the Call Script command, miniuplating Events, and using Blizz-ABS Config to it's fullest extent

Blizz-ABS would have to be the ebst cause i've tried almost every ABS script in order to find the best ABS script i could use for Megaman Battle Guardian, and also, i don't think XAS has a scripter who went out of their time to create an addon which is optional to use (points out Aqua's addon for Blizz-ABS)

[Diokatsu]

i don't think XAS has a scripter who went out of their time to create an addon which is optional to use (points out Aqua's addon for Blizz-ABS)

As for Add-ons, I might just throw in Tons, maybe to prove a point. I have tried XAS and BABS, of course with my limited skills, and I liked BABS better. Not only was it much more fun to use for me, the fact that we regularly converse and help Blizz, albeit with our limited knowledge, really puts a nice little sense of community work into the project. I'm not saying we've done work, per se, but in all reality, Blizz is someone we can go to with problems, who solves them and who takes our views into account. That's worth a lot more to me than a "super cool HUD" and special moves.

[RoseSkye]

It is pretty advanced, but it's too advanced for rpg maker.

if it was, it wouldn't work, but it's like all things really, in the eyes of someone who is just started using RPG Maker XP of Blizz-ABS it's real advance but once you can master the power of the Call Script command, miniuplating Events, and using Blizz-ABS Config to it's fullest extent

Blizz-ABS would have to be the ebst cause i've tried almost every ABS script in order to find the best ABS script i could use for Megaman Battle Guardian, and also, i don't think XAS has a scripter who went out of their time to create an addon which is optional to use (points out Aqua's addon for Blizz-ABS)

You're not getting what I am saying.

You would expect those kind of controls in a MMO.. not a rpg maker game. If I EVER came across a commercial RPG that used that many buttons.. I just wouldn't play it. I play alot of fighters, rpgs, and etc. The maximum I like using is four buttons. Period.

With BlizzABS I have to memorize the whole damned keyboard and I am used to using arrow keys. I need my arrow keys, it's simple. Up, Down, Left, Right.

Even in CS when I use WASD its not that many buttons to memories.. you left click and right click.. DADADAAAAAAAAA. I like simple controls because sometimes I daydream and if a boss comes at me when I am thinking about something else.. WHAM dead.

Besides RM isn't sophisticated. There is only -one- P.O.V., only two dimensions, and only a few designers that actually know how to make a -good- game on it.

[Starrodkirby86]

I agree in that case. When you view the diagram that tells you all the controls, it looks very intricate, confusing, and complex. But only a few of them I use regularly anyway, and the custom configuration I like to do are easy to remember. If there are a lot of controls, it's best to have them in easy-to-remember places, and eventually they'll be a staple in the mind. I'll get myself out of this subject in the bit, hoping that someone else can provide a great second/third opinion on this. 

[Blizzard]

I also agree in this case, Blizz-ABS does have too many buttons. But the basic buttons are actually all you need. The other buttons like switching the party leader, HUD parts on/off, running, sneaking, jumping, etc. are not really necessary. They are parts of additional features which can be turned off. You can minimize Blizz-ABS's controls to a level where all you have is moving, attacking, confirm and cancel. Blizz-ABS does not enforce that many controls, it only provides the possibility to use them.

Also, have you seen the games lately? I mean I can't remember when I saw the last time a PC game which didn't use half of the keyboard (Splinter Cell, old game) or at least loads of keys (Devil May Cry 4, new game). In most games you can configure the controls which is a feature I should implement, though.

[legacyblade]

I play alot of fighters, rpgs, and etc. The maximum I like using is four buttons. Period.

One word: Morrowind.

Besides RM isn't sophisticated. There is only -one- P.O.V., only two dimensions, and only a few designers that actually know how to make a -good- game on it.

That's a really odd view. RM can be as sophisticated as you want. There are plenty of complex, deep, sophisticated 2D games. Just because most 2D games are reserved for the gameboy now doesn't mean its wrong to create a sophisticated 2D game...sprites are awesome, XD

I think the main difference between XAS and BlizzABS is this. BlizzABS's demo isn't flashy, and it's hard to make blizzABS look anywhere near as flashy. I think with the ability to choose the speed at which the sprite animates for each skill, the ability to move the actor and use posing, the ability to customize the timing of the attack, and make skills, weapons, and items interact with events on the map (such as when you're hit by a bomb, do this) would make BlizzABS BETTER than XAS ever will be. I think find a happy medium between ease of configuration, and POWER of said configuration. I'd rather have to work a bit harder to get what I want out of the script. Maybe just provide a basic editor, and an advanced one. Or make the editor a bit more sophisticated. Either way, if you get BlizzABS to have the above capacity (I'd say read through the XAS tutorial, and play the XAS Hero Edition 3.0, so you know what you're up against), then it would surpass ANY ABS. I think it would be on its way to surpassing even Oblivion O_O

[Blizzard]

O_O Can somebody link me to the XAS tute? I already have the Hero Edition 3, but I haven't come around to play it yet.

[RoseSkye]

I also agree in this case, Blizz-ABS does have too many buttons. But the basic buttons are actually all you need. The other buttons like switching the party leader, HUD parts on/off, running, sneaking, jumping, etc. are not really necessary. They are parts of additional features which can be turned off. You can minimize Blizz-ABS's controls to a level where all you have is moving, attacking, confirm and cancel. Blizz-ABS does not enforce that many controls, it only provides the possibility to use them.

Also, have you seen the games lately? I mean I can't remember when I saw the last time a PC game which didn't use half of the keyboard (Splinter Cell, old game) or at least loads of keys (Devil May Cry 4, new game). In most games you can configure the controls which is a feature I should implement, though.

If I EVER came across a commercial RPG that used that many buttons.. I just wouldn't play it.

[winkio]

More buttons = more control = faster paced battles.
Less buttons = less control = slower paced battles.

I prefer the number of buttons B-ABS has because the battles are more interesting and fast paced - no menu switching stuff out in the middle of 'em, although the right hand cluster could probably be laid out a little better...

[tSwitch]

I'm not going to bother commenting about how many buttons BlizzABS lets you use, considering that it's the developer's job to make button config work, and easy to remember.

As far as XAS goes, everything must be scripted.  For projectiles, they needed to be created and configured on a dummy map.  And the AI patterning was just plain annoying to work with.

however, I'm finding it quite simple to work with BlizzABS and make plugins or evented battle spicing. 

not only that, but if I want to do something simple, I can just open the config.exe, and not have to bother with code, other than copying and pasting my config file over.  It's dead simple.

[GAX]

I'm gonna throw my vote with BABS, and lol @ lb's morrowind comment.

In all honesty, the more controls you have, the more complex a game could be.  An example Blizzy brought up is Devil May Cry 4...in all honesty it took me like, 5 seconds to figure out the controls and I can unleash total hell in that game without breaking a sweat (Combo system <3).

The more controls, the more control you have over the game.  The less controls, you don't get very much depth, only a few games can get away with minimal control schemes, you always want to add something different to the mix.

If you want a 2D game that had a LOT of controls, go pick yourself up a copy of the original Warcraft - Orcs and Humans, then we'll talk.

[legacyblade]

I agree with NOT having only 4 buttons. It feels like I'm playing ninja turtules. The more buttons (to a point) the easier it is to do cool stuff. rather than having to press AABBC^^V<D, you can press 1, then the spell button. If you guys have played soul caliber legends, it just ruins the feel of the game having hardly any controls. The control of Kingdom Hearts 2 was FAR nicer than Kingdom Hearts 1, and KH2 featured more buttons. I do think that blizz's configuration of buttons is kinda awkward, but precision in a video game, as well as ease of use, takes a lot of study. If you think your layout is good, have your friend try it.

anyways, XAS has a great system, and I like it. It's really powerful with many uses. But using it is @$%@# until you get the system down, and they could have simplified the configuration without loosing the power. I think blizz is on track to surpassing this.

@blizz, Illia compiled the three tutorials into one thread, which can be found here

http://www.eminweb.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=15

Study that, try it out, then figure out a way to surpass it (and play hero edition 3.0)

[Blizzard]

Ok, I've tried XAS Hero v3, messed around with it for around 2 hours and... (-_-') C'mon, you're not being serious about the "flashy" thing, right? You can make 90% of that in Blizz-ABS as well. Most of it are status animations, destruction animations and skill/item animations. -_- Put them in Blizz-ABS, put in a fancy HUD and you have at least 90% of the flashieness of XAS. I can make the damage display in Blizz-ABS very flashy, that's not a real problem. I simply prefer not to because it annoyed the heck out of me when playing XAS. I could hardly see what's going on in the game. By adding an add-on to Tons which forces Status damage text, I can emulate the same effect like in Blizz-ABS, that's easy. And OMG... Super Special Mega Attack... Yeah, just get CRLS for Blizz-ABS.

I will prove that I am not talking bullshit by making CoSLAL SE not just a tad better like I originally planned, I will completely rework the game. I will not make Blizz-ABS better than XAS, I will make Blizz-ABS eat XAS for breakfast. And I will do all of this because of the people who praised XAS so high even though XAS supports just those few features (and you get nothing else with the package if you know nothing about scripting) which Blizz-ABS doesn't and because XAS disappointed me. Except for a few nice flying around animations *cough*, there is not much to it (except, of course the features that Blizz-ABS is partially still missing, but not for long).

I will continue working on Blizz-ABS even after my game is done and even after I retire from RMXP. That way nobody can bullshit Blizz-ABS. I might even expand the capabilities of enemies and make them able to tear you a new ass even faster and better. Blizz-ABS 2.0 will feature only Ally AI as addition with come internal system changes to support plugins easier. Blizz-ABS 2.x will be a new evolution level of ABS-es.

I'll get back with some POSITIVE comments on XAS after I read the tutorials.

And I hate XAS' controls.

EDIT: Wow, I'm a fast reader. O.o; Anyway, I found some nice features in XAS like enemy size and shield directions and also the possibility (which I also found out while playing) that certain weapons simply ignore map objects. These are reasonable features which I will most probably implement into Blizz-ABS. Let's see... I don't see anything else that you can do in XAS but can't do in Blizz-ABS then. Anybody? Also, after adding projectile speed, more projectile types and spline-movement homing projectiles ( ), XAS will look way worse.

[legacyblade]

The main thing you CAN'T do in Blizz that you can in XAS (besides what you mentioned) are the following

1. Eventing the timing. I like to make flashy sequences for my skills (aka, lift up in the air, hold for a second while glowing, then slam into the enemy creating an explosion). THAT is what I mean by flashy, as most of the other stuff can already be done in BlizzABS. (yeah, SUPER FANCY ATTACKS can easily be done, even without the CRLS. Some users just want to see this stuff in the demo, to some, if its not in the demo, it can't be done :O )

2. Map interaction skills. Lets face it, having an interesting puzzle involving use of blizzABS skills just doesn't work. With XAS, I could in about 2 minutes implement a golden sun style mind read skill (http://www.eminweb.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=33). Also, if done right, you can have an attack that lifts you up into the air, and throws you (think rising falcon) be used to get to an otherwise unreachable location.

Add those, and blizzABS will eat XAS in all the ways it does't now. I never used the animated icons thing, but I think you should make it an optional addon. Same with the damage text. True, the bABS is faster, and more clean looking, but some people want big and flashy. I think make an alternate damage display, and everyone will love bABS even more.

(I hate XAS controls to. The thing that most convinced me to bABS is controls with a built in all-keyboard input module...AND WSAD controls in deh demo)

[Blizzard]

Sure, I know that Blizz-ABS doesn't support those features yet. YET.

When I add combos, I will make it possible to add movement inbetween (i.e. move forwards by 1 square, jump 2 squares forward and execute skill in midair). I had that planned already.

It's true, Blizz-ABS skills don't have so much puzzle possibilities right now. But that will change.

I will make some extra plugins for the demo like a custom HUD and a different damage display. I will also put loads of effort into the game to show that you CAN have flashy stuff. It will actually work mostly the same like in XAS: animations.

LB, you're very right about the demo thing. People are just damn lazy. If you don't show them, they will never try on their own. I will be sure to improve the demo up to a grade where the possibilities of flashieness are demonstrated very well. Just wait for CoSLAL SE! >:3 Have you seen the new launcher yet? http://forum.chaos-project.com/index.php/topic,1324.0.html It's like "SHIT, SOMETHING'S COMING!"

[DeathLock]

Someone would have mentioned that the Blizz-ABS can actually have support from Blizzard himself. While the XAS, you'd have to find someone familiar with the script, which is sometimes difficult. Blizz-ABS is constantly updated, while the XAS you never know if it has been updated. Not exactly about the system, but the support from the creators, Blizzard is always there to help.

[legacyblade]

@blizz, if you want, I could make the poses and all that for the skills. I actually enjoy posing, this week at least.  I could make better sword attack animations, better skill animations, and all of that. Just send me the list of enemies, actors, and their skills/weapons (all the stuff I'd need to do). I like BABS, and want to help make the demo show that it's as powerful as XAS. I do highly recommend giving the ability to change the animation speed of a sprite on a per-weapon basis for each actor, as this would allow further eyecandy with only 2-3 lines of extra coding, and very little configuration. The fast speed at which the sprites animate, and the lack of even a brief hold of the final pose really makes GOOD swing poses look like crap in game.
Also, those plans you have will indeed make BABS eat XAS for breakfast! I don't think a flashy hud is much of a consideration between scripts for me (as you can freaking TURN OFF the hud, and use a custom one), but showing one in the demo would really impress people (a new hud seems to be one of the top requested things in BABS). Like you said, some people just can't imagine what a script can do if its full capacity isn't shown in the demo. Sad, but true. Give the demo awesome graphics, use features that show off how customizable the engine is, and people will GO WHOA, that's the best one out there (even if it isn't )

@Deathlock, indeed, that actually shocked me. Out of curiosity, I started to glance through the topic, and was amazed that blizz actually answered questions. I thought other members would be doing that  (like with XAS). The ability to ask the maker of the script for help with errors and the like makes this a GREAT ABS. I also agree that the continual updates, with their optimization, bugfixes, and feature additions, are a strong attraction to BABS as well!

@all, you can use whatever engine you like, I just personally prefer the BABS, especially with the features planned for 2.0 I mean people are still trying to find a working caterpillar system for XAS, whereas blizzABS has one well integrated, and plans for party AI in the next release. I hope to see improvements on the enemy AI, as the only way to make them dangerous at all is to set their AI delay time really low, which makes them seem to have superhuman reflexes. But even with the current AI, the enemies are much smarter than those in any other ABS. If you try, you can make blizzABS look almost as nice as XAS, and soon you will be able to make it look JUST as flashy

[Rojobo]

I have to admit that BABS is very simple to edit, while XAS can take quite a while to get used to. However if you actually take the time to understand the script, you can do more and is much more customizable then babs.
To me, XAS is also more fast paced then Babs(enemy gets attack, knocked down,dodging,lot of moving), and i especially like the overdrive, charged attack, and many other addons. Sure, creating a weapon/shield/item/enemy(you can give them a custom path, use exact timing for skills) requires scripting and eventing, but it gives you an opportunity to provide more customization then what I've seen so far in babs.

[Aqua]

Okay I don't /really/ wanna join in this yet, but... I just wanna make one point...

Can't Blizz-ABS have enemies with custom paths and exact timing for skills too?

The enemies follow custom paths and then using a script call command along with other eventing, you can decide what you want your enemies to do...

If... XAS has a different way of timing for skills, please explain it to me.