Blizz-ABS vs. XAS

[Magus]

I really wish Blizz-abs would advance itself up for boss fights. I'm not even sure how to use blizzabs forced action commands (this is the first time I've heard of them) welll.. I'm pretty sure you're referring to the "combo" system. I'm going to give that system a try just to see how it works. And you're definitely right about the "one-up."
But at least we know that feature is coming.
I couldn't get started with a game in Xas mainly because it lacks the ability to allow player full freedom to do custom activities whereas blizz-abs does. Example: The weapon sprite system. with Blizz-abs, you could save some time and move on because the weapon and the sprite do not have to be on the same sprite sheet. (that's just one example)

Another example: Blizz-abs only have 3 parts to its script. Xas has over 9000. fail. I don't want to base my game off the demo. (or be forced to copy and paste 5 billion scripts)

Blizz-Abs >>>>>>>>>>>>>> xas

[legacyblade]

Ya, I always hated having to use the demo as a base. Adding a new item takes forever and is a nightmare if you want it to be easy to keep track of and modify. (if you want your database and script editor to look remotely pretty, you need to do a LOT of planning in advance). And the forced actions are not the combo system. They're a bit buggy still (every version fixes some bugs in it and it's getting there), but basically it's script calls you use in the event's movement to make the enemies/players do something. You can make a boss just like in XAS, if you set it up right. You have a bit more freedom. Though since I know how to use XAS so well (at least one of the older versions), I'm always going to be used to that interface.

(off current on topic topic)
I think what sets blizz-ABS apart so much is the ability to set factions like in the elder scrolls games. It could make for some pretty interesting war systems if you set it up right. Same with the zHud. LOTS of freedom. That's why blizzABS whoops so many helpings of a**.

[Magus]

Agreed. I tried out a war system a while ago and it worked out pretty damn well xD, with blizz-abs. Hmmm Call  scripts. I've seen a few in Xas, but I didn't know blizz-abs could do such a thing.  Let's take a look at the user manual. Maybe there are a few call scripts (at least example ones) I could try. *looks*

Okay... holy shit. I see what you mean. I am going to experiment around abit.
$BlizzABS.enemy_force_action(event_id, target_type, target, action_type, data)   I still got to read up on the meaning of all of these though.



$BlizzABS.enemy_change_hp(event_id, operation, type, operand, allow_kill)
$BlizzABS.enemy_change_sp(event_id, operation, type, operand)
$BlizzABS.enemy_change_state(event_id, change, state_id)
$BlizzABS.enemy_recover_all(event_id)
$BlizzABS.enemy_transform(event_id, enemy_id)
$BlizzABS.enemy_deal_damage(event_id, type, operand)
$BlizzABS.actor_deal_damage(party_position, type, operand)
$BlizzABS.enemy_affect_group(event_id, group_id)
$BlizzABS.enemy_change_group(event_id, group_id)
$BlizzABS.enemy_force_action(event_id, target_type, target, action_type, data)
$BlizzABS.actor_force_action(party_position, target_type, target, action_type, data)
$BlizzABS.is_enemy?(event_id)
$BlizzABS.enemy_has_state?(event_id, state_id)
$BlizzABS.enemy_can_see?(event_id, target_type, target)
$BlizzABS.enemy_can_hear?(event_id, target_type, target)
$BlizzABS.enemy_can_perceive?(event_id, target_type, target)
$BlizzABS.enemy_has_memorized?(event_id, target_type, target)

[legacyblade]

Ya, like I said, the forced actions make most things possible. Most people just don't open the manual and notice them (which is sad). Some are still a bit buggy though, I think, though it's been awhile since I last worked on making a boss.

[Taiine]

I'd like to see a demo with a few examples how to use the forced actions to make a boss or other things. It could bring more awareness to their useage.

[legacyblade]

Winkio has one in the works, he's just a bit busy with getting the next big version of blizzABS out (with everything implemented, fixed, and shiney )

[Blizzard]

*points to Star G.* There's a link in the Blizz-ABS thread. I used forced actions and move routes there exclusively for the enemy AI. I didn't even do much. I just put in a few forced actions and move commands and the enemies were already doing what they were supposed to. Of course, it means that it doesn't demonstrate the full power of the forced actions, but it shows the basics how to use them.

[Magus]

ah. I'm still messing around with these. Some of these are a bit buggy, but meh.

[Bradley_Theory]

And then, there was a NECRO POST!
Okay, I asked Calvin when Moghunter would finish the XAS 4, and this was his answer:

Hey Bradley,

There's no release date as of yet but Moghunter is hoping to get XAS 4 out within the coming months, certainly by the end of Summer.

Calvin624

So... How are you guys about this discussion? I think Blizz his ABS is way more user friendly, but I think that XAS 4 is way more advanced.
Discuss?

[winkio]

XAS is really advanced graphically (lots of animations, huge flashy demo, etc.), Blizz-ABS is really advanced logically (complex systems, intelligent AI, good config, etc.).  They are both good systems, but I think we already decided that most of us here at CP prefer Blizz-ABS because of its utility.  A lot of the XAS users we hear from focus a lot of their attention on the demo and the graphics, but as Blizz has already proven, most of those graphics are easily replicated in Blizz-ABS.  There's a lot of work to be done, but I can tell you for sure that once Blizz-ABS gets to version 3.0 (it's final version, everything afterwards will be released as add-ons), serious work will begin on a demo, and it will be of similar caliber to the XAS demos.

[Blizzard]

XAS makes it easy to make a game. You plug in your story and maps and a couple of events and off you go. You have a game that looks like 1000 other games. Blizz-ABS gives you possibilities to use your own creativity and imagination.

[Spaceman McConaughey]

1000 other games? Are retarded? More like 1,000,000 other games.

But really, XAS sucks. I cannot wait 'til we get more of those members who sign up just to lie to themselves and us about how XAS is superior. Anyone remember them?

[Blizzard]

XAS isn't a bad system. It's just not even close enough to what people claim it to be. 95% of everything can be made in both systems. In XAS that's 95% of its features and you have the 5% that Blizz-ABS can't do so easily. Blizz-ABS on the other hand is different. That overlapping part is about 40% of Blizz-ABS capabilities. That means that while Blizz-ABS can't do the last 5% of XAS, it can do additional 150% on top of XAS's ~100%. Basically 100% Blizz-ABS equals 250% XAS meaning Blizz-ABS is 2.5 times more powerful. That's just an estimation, but it should be close enough (60+ entries in the feature list and growing).

[Shalaren]

I just have to say that The only reason I'm not using XAS for my game is because it isn't as easy to configure as it is in blizz-abs (that's cause you guys made the Blizz-ABS Config) Xas has many things that are easy to make that I wished Blizz-abs had, that said. Blizz-Abs is way more flexible then Xas. maybe Blizz-Abs is missing some but those are only some addons that eventually will come :>.

[Bradley_Theory]

Hmmm... It's true that the XAS system is very difficult to configure, that's why I will stay at Blizz ABS atm.
I just hope that Moghunter will see that the most people just need or want a easy config system (like the one in Blizz ABS).
And the XAS has some sexy layouts that Blizz ABS doesn't have yet (*ough* Wonkio? *ough*).

[winkio]

not XAS, the XAS demo.  Two separate things.  As I said, once development is done, I will make a demo.

[JellalFerd]

I don't even like X.A.S. for its graphics, I like it for its creativity.
But simplicity > creativity in my book.

[G_G]

You can be just as creative with Blizz-ABS. People have a hard time understanding that.

[JellalFerd]

I'm well aware of that.
I just like insignificant things like the friend toss in this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcB1asMuH8s
This also happens to be the only moghunter video I watched that I didn't get a heart attack on.  
Those motion trails are also pretty nice. Oh wait, I'm getting back into graphics.
Well, as for another liked feature, the direction-based shielding.

[Blizzard]

Those motion trails are also pretty nice. Oh wait, I'm getting back into graphics.

Obviously it inspired you graphically which means you are contradicting yourself:

I don't even like X.A.S. for its graphics, I like it for its creativity.

And I totally agree. This video is graphically very rich. In fact it's 80% graphics. The only features that are not graphic related that I have seen were that you can leave party members to stay somewhere, throw them and make an attack that virtually uses all party members (which was displayed 4 times BTW). It's not like that stuff is impossible in Blizz-ABS. Heck, I made stuff like leaving party members on switches in my own game using event and that one doesn't even use Blizz-ABS.

And I still think the scaling animations look ugly. Also fail at scaling linearly instead of using a sine function. This shows that the one working on it doesn't really know what they are doing, it just seems that they do.

In the end this looks a lot worse than the 3.x demo. In the 3.x demo there was at least some sort of diversity instead of everything looking the same.