Blizz-ABS vs. XAS

[Rojobo]

Okay I don't /really/ wanna join in this yet, but... I just wanna make one point...

Can't Blizz-ABS have enemies with custom paths and exact timing for skills too?

The enemies follow custom paths and then using a script call command along with other eventing, you can decide what you want your enemies to do...

If... XAS has a different way of timing for skills, please explain it to me.

Yes, through similar ways, except with XAS, you can define when the enemy is to use a certain skill(you can assign more then one, although im not sure about babs) and there are two movement cycles(event pages), one for when the enemy has not detected the player, and one for its movement during battle.

[Aqua]

In Blizz-abs... I /think/ you can have those different movements if you use an if script in the move command...

I'm not /exactly/ sure, but it might be possible

[Blizzard]

In Blizz-ABS you CAN make a complete custom moving route with custom actions. But it's true, there is no separation between player-detected and player-undetected behavior. I am thinking of implementing something like that. Enemies would follow a route and when they fight the player, the would leave that route. Later they would return to the original position and continue moving around.

[legacyblade]

@Rojobo, yes. Blizz is actually going to implement that functionality into BABS with the next version. And those addons already exist, btw. Just get tons, CLSR, and some of blizzard's other scripts, and vuala. lots of addons for BABS. I agree, though, at this moment XAS is far more customizable, which is one of its draws for me.

[Zeldaknight]

Okay, with all the mods Blizzard is promising it sounds like the next version of the B-ABS will be out in about 2010!

Anyway I'd like to say that I've got the demo for XAS, done the demo, liked it, looked at the script and threw it out! Looks like too much stuff to learn! And Blizzard is active on various forums and has helped me out a lot. Once Blizz-ABS has ally AI and a few of the features Blizzard is promising it will kick XAS majorly! By the way Blizzard I wouldn't mind doing a demo for the next version of the ABS if you need one. And I love the B-ABS enemy AI . . . well, when I'm not chasing after a fast demon . . .

[Blizzard]

Sure, I'd love if there were more example games or demos out there.

[Zeldaknight]

Nice, I may start on that now. There were more reasons I thought of why Blizz-ABS is better than XAS but I can't remember them right now . . .

[Blizzard]

I'll try to release Blizz-ABS as soon as possible and make the second edition of my own example game.

[Sally]

is this even a debate? ...
the first post didnt even start off with anything to say how it is better....

[Starrodkirby86]

is this even a debate? ...
the first post didnt even start off with anything to say how it is better....

The reason why the first post didn't start off with that is because the thread was originally split from another one, being Legacyblade's Recruitment thread. That's why it sounds so strange from the beginning. Eventually it turned into a debate, but few XAS supporters are really coming on here to prove their own point...

[winkio]

Props to you Blizz, your AI just raped me!  in a 2-on-1!  (two enemies on one hero)  No way XAS can do THAT!

Seriously, if you have ever played a well-made game with Blizz-ABS (idk about Lag-a-lot, i never played it), you'd realize how the battles are soooooo much better.  XAS is good for little puzzles and nice looks and battles that take no skill to win, but Blizz-ABS has gameplay FTW!  After all, its an Action Battle System, not a Xiderowg Action System.  Once you add in a few other technicalities, there's gonna be no reason to use XAS.

But seriously Blizz, your AI is beastly.  i'm having to make my enemies deal less damage so that I don't die every two minutes!

[Zeldaknight]

Yeah, I've noticed that recently too . . . my mates always get annoyed when they play it and die after 30 seconds and then I play it and die in 3 minutes!

[Blizzard]

Lol! I noticed something similar as well. When I testplayed CoSLAL with the old AI, I didn't have too many problems with the game. But ever since I built in the new AI (and using it WITHOUT any extra AI features yet), I had a hard time killing enemies. I had to increase Sir Lag-A-Lot's max HP and MP and make the enemies weaker. o.o; I also remember a couple of test plays using one leader. Heck, he send an entire troop of 7 enemies (including himself) after me! I was level 15 (300 max HP or something like that) and I barely survived that battle!

[legacyblade]

lol, the enemies in my game do that too, and there was only 4 of them :O I had to make them a tad weaker, and remember to kill the leader first. DANG this AI is good, XD

[Zeldaknight]

Heehee, I think we've driven computerwizzo off with all the support Blizzard is getting. And I don't see Xeindowg (however you spell it) coming to defent his own system !

These combos of yours sound awesome Blizz, they'll be perfect for some of my Force Wave spells and stuff where the character should be jumping up and then smashing the ground (and those annoying Leaders. . .)

Edit: By the way, what happens if you use Mode 7 with the Blizz-ABS? Does it work or is it not compatible or is there too much lag or what?

[Blizzard]

An earlier version of Mode 7 works fine up to some point when you use the additional compatibility plugin. You can get both from the Mode 7 thread here.

[Rojobo]

Okay, with all the mods Blizzard is promising it sounds like the next version of the B-ABS will be out in about 2010!

Anyway I'd like to say that I've got the demo for XAS, done the demo, liked it, looked at the script and threw it out! Looks like too much stuff to learn! And Blizzard is active on various forums and has helped me out a lot. Once Blizz-ABS has ally AI and a few of the features Blizzard is promising it will kick XAS majorly! By the way Blizzard I wouldn't mind doing a demo for the next version of the ABS if you need one. And I love the B-ABS enemy AI . . . well, when I'm not chasing after a fast demon . . .

To me, the script really isn't hard to use like most people continuously complain about. Sure, the reason is probably because its in Portuguese, but you CAN download an English translation or simply use a translator. Really, if you put effort into learning the XAS system, you'll find out that there are hundreds of ways to customize it to suit your needs, not to mention that its relatively easy to add your own combo system(you can even do it with events!) And I'm probably repeating myself, but i find the gameplay in XAS to be much more fast paced, as i find my self constantly slamming the arrow keys more to dodge attacks, and when I played the demo of bliz-abs, it just didn't seem to satisfy me, it just felt too slow paced(i attacked, enemy simply went back, came fourth attacked)which I found boring. This has probably changed a bit with the later versions of the abs blizzard has uploaded, but i still don't think theres a knockback feature or any of that sort. In XAS, I found it different(especially in version 3)I mean, I had to constantly move or guard to keep from being hit, and then i had to quickly approach the enemy and attack, and no, it isn't as easy as you think to predict it's moves. But i think im just getting into a matter of personal tastes, so that should be enough for now. (but im not surprised that people enjoy this abs since this blizzards forum and  ah yes, now that people are talking about this new ai, i might try this out)

[Starrodkirby86]

Remember that the Demo for Blizz-ABS, Chronicles of Sir Lag-A-Lot is outdated now. Well, not really outdated, but it's not the epitome of a good demo. It doesn't maximize many of the uses of Blizz-ABS. It makes a good reference however. XAS Hero Version 3's demo is probably way better in those terms, and there has clearly been put some effort with all the glitz and glamor.

Yeah, it is manner of personal preference, it's almost like character preference in Super Smash Bros. Brawl...

[Zeldaknight]

Yeah, I guess most of my annoyance was because I couldn't find an English translation. Although I now bring back up Blizzard's earlier point about compatibility. How many scripts is XAS compatible with, not to mention SDK!

[Blizzard]

CoSLAL doesn't even use 40% of the current features that Blizz-ABS has, of course it's way worse than the XAS. And I don't think you can bring up "editing the script" as customization argument because you can "edit the script" in Blizz-ABS as well. I've tried XAS v3 demo myself and I agree that it's more fast paced, but as I said earlier, you can make that in Blizz-ABS easily. Just give an enemy moving speed 5 (or even 6!) and give him the "Full Power" AI attribute and you won't even have time to react on time.

There are only a few features which XAS has and Blizz-ABS doesn't. Those are mainly the ones that allow extras like very interactive puzzles.

I agree that most people here are using Blizz-ABS and that I am getting the most support, but I'd really like it if more people would come here that prefer XAS. When I learn the most if not all possibilities that XAS gives the user, I can make them work in Blizz-ABS as well. Blizz-ABS already supports so many things that XAS doesn't, it would be a shame if people miss out those features only because it doesn't support the few they used to like in XAS.

Also, scripting as customization argument is not really a valid argument in general. Why bother using XAS or Blizz-ABS if everybody can script? Exactly that's the point: Not everybody can script. In fact, for most people even simple script edits can be a bothersome job. I have encountered people asking me in Blizz-ABS how to make a switch activated before the game over and prevent the game over. That code is like 2 lines long and only needs to be put at the right place, yet those people couldn't figure it out. My point is that if you can script a little or have a rather higher-than-average IQ so you figure out things quickly enough, you can edit both XAS and Blizz-ABS to suit your needs.

I don't know how many possibilities XAS v3 demo uses of XAS, but if you need to script anything that you have to add, then it's 100% of the original script. Also XAS v3 demo is not JUST XAS. It has several add-ons FOR XAS in there. As In CoSLAL I didn't make use of all features of Blizz-ABS of the version it actually uses and there are no external plugins for Blizz-ABS. It also supports some extra built-on features which I haven't demonstrated there, because I thought it wouldn't be necessary. I was wrong, I guess. I consider CoSLAL using 70%-80% of the original script with absolutely no plugins FOR Blizz-ABS.
Summary: XAS demo = 100% (?) XAS + plugins, Blizz-ABS demo = 75% Blizz-ABS + no plugins