Blizz-ABS vs. XAS

Started by computerwizoo7, September 30, 2008, 07:21:25 pm

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Aqua

October 14, 2008, 04:31:27 pm #60 Last Edit: October 14, 2008, 04:38:33 pm by Aqua
Very nice argument Blizz. ^.^

(still doesn't join in yet... XD)

CoSLAL2.0 should be very very good, especially with... *cough*
Mmm... maybe you should add my FoA plug-in to CoSLAL2.0 to demenstrate a plug-in...  :roll:

legacyblade

Just for reference, I did prefer XAS for a long time. lol, I used to think blizzABS sucked, until i read the manual and saw its capacity. I am not very eloquent today, so I will only give barebones defense of my points right now.

About the XAS demo using a great percentage of its script ability? That's not entirely true. The XAS system is so versitile, that you can even make a harvest moon system with little effort (not even scripting. the scripting in XAS is just a dif script page for the configuration of each weapon, spell, and item). The demo only uses it in a very streightforward manner, I'd say it uses 60-65% of the plausible use of the system. The majority comes from the graphical niceties, and the addons. Most of the addons would only take 3 lines of code, but it's like XAS's own "tons of addons" system wherein it takes a bit of scripting knowledge to disable one of the features.

blizzABS at current DOES have knockback (or at least the enemies seem to get knocked back whenever I hit them, might be a coincidence), and with the new AI the battles are far more difficult and fast paced than those in XAS (even 4 enemies beat the crap out of me when I'm level 1 D:, I made them too strong, XD). I think the main setback of blizzABS is its lack of customizability in the area of the skills, (I can't figure out how to do most of the skills I've come up with, since they all involve moving, and multiple poses). That, and puzzles still aren't made easy with the BlizzABS. I think I should compile a list of features blizzABS will need to match XAS, then some extras that would make it surpass XAS.

Blizzard

I think I removed knockback for actors in an earlier version because somebody said it would be annoying. o.o

The customizibility of skills will be based on the combo system. Basic skills will still be the same, but advanced stuff like moving, jumping, etc. inbetween will be possible by creating combos.
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Starrodkirby86

Quote from: Blizzard on October 15, 2008, 08:57:00 am
I think I removed knockback for actors in an earlier version because somebody said it would be annoying. o.o

The customizibility of skills will be based on the combo system. Basic skills will still be the same, but advanced stuff like moving, jumping, etc. inbetween will be possible by creating combos.

Why remove it when you can make it optional? Some people would prefer the knockback feature, just sayin' though.

I see...It seems to me one of the main new features would be this combo system. D: Either way I feel this thread is kind of a what-future-features-Blizz-ABS-shall-possess now since there's little XAS supporters. :P

What's osu!? It's a rhythm game. Thought I should have a signature with a working rank. ;P It's now clickable!
Still Aqua's biggest fan (Or am I?).




Rojobo

Quote from: Starrodkirby86 on October 15, 2008, 06:35:13 pm
Quote from: Blizzard on October 15, 2008, 08:57:00 am
I think I removed knockback for actors in an earlier version because somebody said it would be annoying. o.o

The customizibility of skills will be based on the combo system. Basic skills will still be the same, but advanced stuff like moving, jumping, etc. inbetween will be possible by creating combos.

Why remove it when you can make it optional? Some people would prefer the knockback feature, just sayin' though.

I see...It seems to me one of the main new features would be this combo system. D: Either way I feel this thread is kind of a what-future-features-Blizz-ABS-shall-possess now since there's little XAS supporters. :P


Trust me, alot more people then you probably think support XAS, just not on this forum   :P

Hmm, I really don't find it surprising that barely anyone supports XAS here

Nazurin

Quote from: computerwizoo7 on October 02, 2008, 03:35:22 pm
so you wanna fight!
Round 1:
Xas has a system where you can reflect attacks and seal enemies or the players skill or weapon! and devastating Special attacks with awesome enemy AIs which are fully customizable so you can make them as smart as you want or as dumb as you want too! and they can run away too!

try and beat that blizzard!

See this

Quote from: computerwizoo7 on October 01, 2008, 11:24:37 am
Now you are getting me MAD! XAS is WAAAAY BETTER!
we don't want enemies running away and crap like that!
we don't want someone playing and seeing a stupid enemy AI settings on the menu that you can't go into!
xas have devastating special attacks and not a stupid stop time crap to use a skill!
XAS have a super cool HUD! and everything is fully customizable!
you don't have to have a bag of crap character set that you can't even figure out!
XAS is BETTER! and we can do this all day! so until i see a game built with blizz abs that is not rubbish then put a sock in it!


Then this.

Sometimes, people don't think arguments through properly.

Blizzard

October 19, 2008, 11:26:58 am #66 Last Edit: October 19, 2008, 11:39:14 am by Blizzard
Yeah, I agree. I know that his post was just a rant. But nobody rants about Blizz-ABS without paying for that. :P If you haven't noticed, he hasn't posted ever since. xD Actually, he's doing it totally wrong:

Quote from: computerwizoo7 on October 02, 2008, 03:35:22 pm
Xas has a system where you can reflect attacks and seal enemies or the players skill or weapon! and devastating Special attacks with awesome enemy AIs which are fully customizable so you can make them as smart as you want or as dumb as you want too! and they can run away too!


That's a Blizz-ABS feature, not a XAS feature. He was probably just pissed that his banner for the forum was bad (and it was the better one) and I didn't want to put it up. Not just that, he personally said in the PM that he doesn't want critique on it. On top of that I didn't want to join his game team since I lack the time (along with other reasons that he doesn't need to know).

But this here is the richest:

Quote from: computerwizoo7 on October 02, 2008, 03:35:22 pm
Xas has a system where you can reflect attacks and seal enemies or the players skill or weapon! and devastating Special attacks with awesome enemy AIs which are fully customizable so you can make them as smart as you want or as dumb as you want too! and they can run away too!


OMG! IT HAS A SILENCE STATUS! I AM IMPRESSED!
Adding an attack preventing status effect is a matter of 1 line of code since Blizz-ABS has this nice method called "attack_can_use?":

return false if @battler.states.include?(STATUS_ID)


^_^
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Peter16321

October 20, 2008, 02:44:40 am #67 Last Edit: October 20, 2008, 03:59:49 am by Peter16321
ok man and girls here is my reply for this (stupid) topic

why stupid?
becuse every abs has there own pro and contras!

here is my pro and contra list:

XAS


Pro
It is soo... eye candy, realy nice look^^

either
a simple AI   - that kan be pro and contra^^

Contra

lags a lot
difficult to understand
no ally AI



Blizz-Abs

Pro
easyer to understand  -  a programm to modify the abs (realy nice (^-^))
very lagless

either

a grade AI

Contra
no ally AI



Mr. Mo /NEO ABS

Pro

Lagless, ally abs, simple to use

either
a simple AI

contra
Mr. Mo is lazy, he is updating his abs very slowly




8) summary  8)

Xas is for ruby prof.'s
Blizz-Abs for people who wants an nice working abs with grade ai
and neo-abs for people who wants a nice working and simple abs

pls tell me when i*m wrong

Blizzard

You pretty much summed it up.
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Quote from: winkioI do not speak to bricks, either as individuals or in wall form.

Quote from: Barney StinsonWhen I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

legacyblade

Just so you know, blizz, I'm compiling a list of features XAS has that bABS doesn't. With it, you will be able to eat the ABS for breakfast :P

Blizzard

I love you. I'll be sure to add you to the special thanks section at the end of the manual. :D
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Quote from: winkioI do not speak to bricks, either as individuals or in wall form.

Quote from: Barney StinsonWhen I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

legacyblade

yay, special thanks!!

Anyways, I added a list of all the features needed to have all the features of XAS (they are categorized by which ones I felt were the most important), as well as a list on how to eat XAS for breakfast, as well as one final list of things to make it pwn all the other ABS systems out there (feel free to ignore the "better pixel movement" feature, as that would probably cause quite a bit of lag in an ABS). Now without further ado, deh list!

Features needed to match XAS' functionality
Spoiler: ShowHide

Most important:

The ability to make the actor move during skills. - Not only the ability to move, but the ability to add pauses, have the actor hold poses, and define WHEN the damage is dealt. With the system in XAS, you can make the actor shoot forward, damaging all enemies in your path, then cause an explosion after x amount of squares quite easily.

The ability to define the rate at which the skill/weapon animates. - Although this is a tad tedious in XAS, you could make this feature available in bABS with just two configuration options. I think with this, you should also add the ability to hold the beginning and/or the end pose for x amount of frames. Doing this allows much nicer looking attack animations. Let's face it, the bABS animations for attacking and casting spells are kinda...meh

The ability to define a move route for skills. - This ability makes all the attacks in the game feel so much more original.

The ability for events on the map to wait for input from a certain skill or weapon.  - this is the biggest reason I think anyone would choose XAS over bABS. Even with XAS' confusing configuration system, making a golden sun style mind read system, or a "press the switch in the right order" puzzle (think Zelda games) only takes a few minutes. To prevent lag, you could make "listener" events with \l. You could then set up a variable that we can check to see if its been hit by a certain weapon or skill. It'd be nice to have a "is hit by something" , "is hit by item", "is hit by spell", and "is hit by weapon" detection system.

Multiple attack combo (this is an addon the XAS community made) - This is a hard one to describe. What I am thinking of is the ability to define multiple sprites to be used in continuation of eachother in a combo. Think of games like tales of Symphonia, Kingdom Hearts, and Zelda (at least the 3D ones). If you just press the attack button once, they'll execute an attack, then have the brief attack penalty. But if, however, you press it multiple times, they'll atack multiple times THEN have the attack penalty. If you want it to be better than the XAS one, it'll need to support combo limits (aka, each actor can only preform x amount of attacks in a combo. This limit should also be changeable via script call), multiple sprite poses in the combo (when you attack only once, it'll use sprite pose 1. But if you do a combo, it'll go to sprite pose 2. Then after the penalty, if you attack again it'll start with sprite 1), the ability to define different ammounts of damage per each combo item (if you want the last attack in the combo to be stronger than the rest),  and possibly the abilty to set up delay times for each item in the combo (wait 5 frames after attack 1, then 2 frames after atack 2.). Also, a nice ability you have with the XAS combo addon is you can define animation speed for each individual section of the combo (attack sprite one animates really fast, but attack sprite two goes slow, ect.) Sorry if this one sounds confusing, I'm having trouble describing it.


Kind of important:

The ability to hold down the attack button, which would charge a spell based on your current weapon - This would only take a few lines of code, and it could just be an addon. But it's one of those things that makes the XAS demo so flashy. I know you can do something similar with CRLS (or however you abbreviate it), but maybe you could create an addon that would make the CRLS system work in a similar manner.

The ability to have animated idle sprites - you have something sorta like it, but one feature that would be easily implemented, one that impressed quite a few XAS users, was that when you weren't moving or attacking, it would animate an "idle" sprite (usually just the actor breathing heavily) It'd only take a few lines of code, so why not?

The ability to create a spell that will 'seal' a certain action - It is like having the silence ability, but also for skills, items,  weapons, blocking, ect. It'd be cool to be able to make a skill seal individual abilities, such as jumping. Maybe even add the ability to make seals that effect skills of a certain element (aka, 'seal of water' makes it so you can't cast fire based spells)

The ability to create a spell that will cast random states you predefine - not sure if you can do this in bABS, but in XAS you can make a skill that will cast random status ailments (out of a list you define). I think this would be a very useful feature, as you could make some cool spells with this. (aka, a song that targets everything on the field, and will either paralize the actor, or make them stronger)

The ability to call random battle cries - In XAS, you could easily make it so everytime you attacked, it would call a random battle cry our of a list of files for a certain actor (it required eventing or a script call). This is a simple feature, and adds greatly to the immersion level of a game.

Doesn't really matter

An on-map death counter - I've never really been impressed by death counter's, but it IS a feature of XAS. It'd take a line or two of code.

The ability to set a switch to true, rather than call gameover. -  I know this would take one line of code, but not everyone knows how to do that one line of code

Non-pausing shockwave skill -  Not a real biggie, but it'd be cool if you could have a shockwave skll that didn't pause and tell you who the attack would hit. Just preference on my part.

I'm not sure if you can do this yet in bABS, but the ability to have states that effect the movement speed


Features needed to eat XAS for breakfast
Spoiler: ShowHide

The ability for the agility attribute to determine how fast a character attacks - true, if you work at it, you can achieve a somewhat similar effect. But having a weak quick moving character who can do 3-4 attacks in the time it takes a slower enemy to do one just won't work too well. True, you can do it based on weapons, but it wouldn't be based on your agility. At the moment, agility doesn't seem to be a very useful attribute in bABS.

The ability to make a hookshot like item - I must admit, with hours of effort, and lots of eventing, this might be possible in XAS. But we've all tried, and on the XAS community, it's a very wanted feature. You could have skills that would pull you closer to event s that are marked with a \Hpu in the name, and pull events closer that are marked with an \Hpl (or something like that).  It'd be a really cool feature to have, and it shouldn't be TOO hard to code.

The ability to make skills that execute as long as you hold the button down - This is crucial for a certain aspect of my game's magic system, and it could be used for lots of interesting skills. It'd be nice to have skills that would loop through their skill sprite graphic, and continue to execute the skill effect until the button is released (or you no longer have the SP required to continue using the skill)
The ability to have dodge moves - It should be very easy to impliment, and it'd be cool. We all want our fast characters to be able to backflip and avoid the attack. Sure, the warriors can just block stuff with sheilds, but what about the dancers? I think you should be able to define, on a per-character basis, if the shield button does a dodge or a block. You could also base the success of the dodge on the character's agility, to make it seem more realistic. (or add an option like "full defend" that makes the dodge always work)

The ability for a state to change the actor graphic - Lets say the user is paralized. Currently, they just stand there. However, it would look much nicer if you could have a different graphic for them. The same would go with a frozen status. This would greatly add to the immersive quality of the game, and would make it easier to quickly see what's going on in battle. (cummon, we all want to make an awesome angry looking sprite for the bezerk status. And who doesn't want to see a zombie version of the main character?)


Features needed to be the ultimate ABS
(some features are derived from Mr. Moe's ABS)
Spoiler: ShowHide

Party AI - Yes, I know this is on the way, but there are other ABS' out there that already have this. However, since it uses the blizzAI, this one will PWN! I suggest having the allies have a view range, even though the player can see the whole screen. In addition, they could choose targets themselves, but the player could overide their AI and give them orders (aka "attack THAT enemy with THIS spell".) This would make it feel like you're an enemy with the leader attribute asigned to you, and would also make it so you can order your party members to attack enemies outside of their view/hearing range.

The ability to 'split up' - One thing I like about Mr. Moe's ABS and SepherothSpawn's Squad based ABS is the ability to split the leader off from the main group. That not only makes for some cool battle abilities (you send a member of your team around the back while the rest of your allies fight on), but it could be used for some puzzles. For this, a "call party members" ability (aka, tell them to start following the player again) would be useful. I suggest that you have all party members reinserted in the caterpillar when the player leaves the current map.

The ability to check the location of party members  - This goes with the above requested feature. With this you could have lots of complex switch pressing puzzles with little effort. It'd also give you the ability to make sure the party isn't too far away before you leave the map (otherwise you could leave one guy near the exit, and switch to him to teleport your party out of danger if you're about to die.)

Team based AI - I can't remember which ABS this was in, but the AI worked in a similar way to Oblivion. There were different teams/factions, and they had different aliences. For example, team one is on the same side as the party. Team one is passive, and will only attack a team that attacked them first (and they'll go passive again after the battle.) Team three and team four are allied, but are hostile to all but team 2. They are only passive to team two. I think you're already implimenting something like this, but I just wanted to put my two cents in on the subject. It'd be really cool, in my opinion.

A better pixelmovement - I know the current system is good and all, but it isn't as good as the pixel movement found here. I agree, this has a lot of features that are pointless, but one feature I really like is the image based colision settings. If you look, you'll find that for a tileset, you create a black and white image which serves as the collision settings (black for impassible, white for passible).  The one thing I find most annoying about pixelmovement that does NOT use this is sometimes you have to work hard to fit through a 1 tile wide gap, whereas without pixel movement getting through that is simple. If you use this image based collision, it would make blizzABS awesome (you can cache the colision data to a file, since image based collision takes longer to calculate). There are a lot of really cool features in that pixel movement, such as a height map image for each map (similar to the colision map files, but for hieght. This allows jump to have a Z depth, and you can only jump to areas within your limits) and pixel based event colision (the sprites pixels deturmine where they colide), but I think the most important feature you could add in way of pixel movement is the colision map image.


Note, blizzABS MAY possess some of these features, but I couldn't find them.



Blizzard

I haven't read the whole post yet, but I saw a few things there which would be easier to do with events like sealing the jumping ability if a status is inflicted. =/ Just use a parallel process that checks the state of the party leader and disbable jumping for him if he does. =/ I would complicate things a lot for me if I had to implement things like that. Please be reasonable with requests. Some can be done way easier with events using the interface and data access I provided in Blizz-ABS.

I'll read the entire list as soon as I can and give a full review if you want.
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legacyblade

Ok. I didn't say I expected everything to be completed. I was just listing the features of XAS, and giving some suggestions in case you implement them in blizzABS. The only ones I think are the most important are in the "most important" section. The seal certain skills, I meant to stick that in the "doesn't really matter" section, as I find it quite pointless. I think the overall most important feature to match blizzABS is to be able to  make the actor move during a skill. Everything else just makes the bABS pawn even more. I was just making some suggestions.

Blizzard

Sure, moving while using a skill will be basically a simple combo. Also the few things that you suggested about different animation length and different trigger moment should be rather easy to implement.
Just don't get me wrong, I appreciate this post very much. :)
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Quote from: Barney StinsonWhen I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

legacyblade

Ok, glad I could be of service. Personally, I'd love to see ALL those features implemented with easy config and no lag, but I'm glad you're going to implement the most important ones. After all, I gave up XAS, I want some of the XAS abilities again, XD

Makasu

Continuing on with this rather fail of a debate. one thing I don't like about BABS is the fact that triggers aren't activated until death. So if I wanted a person who would act normal I wouldn't be able to communicate with them until they were dead. Even then though its still a hassle. Which I think that Mo's ABS handled it quite well with the comment thingy. Because having to do all of that in AI programming in the name is a cumbersome task in the end. Because if I make an error in naming the event wrong then I'd have to cycle through all of that \aiblahblah blahblah blah just find out that I missed one 0 in the coding. Mo does have it better in that aspect. Another ABS you would/should look into would be Behemoths' ABS projectile one. It deserves mention and merit because hit has pretty impressive things in itas well.

Plus your is in English. :] I can't read Portugese [[sp?]]

All in all though BABS is good just not great. Hopefully with the upgrades promised in 2.0 it'll step up to the big leagues and take its place as the throne of the ABS. Although Anaryu has superior battle systems on lock as well. I don't know there are tons of GREATER systems out there. So this is like a never ending war because you're going to see something later on in life and be like, "Darn I should have added that!" and things like that.

And the diagnol  jump issue would have to be fixed as well.
But Blizz gets the vote because of the support and constant feedback he offers and gives to those in need.

But only time will actually tell if BABS will hold up.
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Blizzard

October 23, 2008, 04:22:32 pm #77 Last Edit: October 23, 2008, 04:59:55 pm by Blizzard
Don't worry about the triggers. I already mentioned several times that I will add custom event triggers. ;) Also, your assumption is completely wrong. You have the "Event renaming" feature in Blizz-ABS. Do other ABSes support that? No. You can talk to a person and if he gets a response from the player he doesn't like, he can be turned into an enemy with one small script call command. Also what you are saying ONLY refers to CUSTOM AI SETUP FOR AN EVENT SPECIFICALLY. You think cycling through thousands of comments in different events is easier? Another problem with comment based commands is possible lag. Each time the events need to be refreshed the entire array of event commands needs to be checked for comments with commands and that causes lag. I tried making the events' naming as simple as possible. If you have a better suggestion, say so. And as I said so many times already, 2.0 will only have additional Ally AI. The real good stuff comes later. Also, what about the diagonal jump problem? I had no problems with diagonal jumping. Could you be more specific? I remember that there was a problem in a much earlier version with jumping, but I fixed that already.

It's true that you can look at things like "You can always add more". But there IS a limit to it. I will go with Blizz-ABS as far as possible without starting to devolve (is that even a word?) the system. When you realize that you have started adding things like blinking bars in the HUD, you certainly know that this isn't ABS related anymore and you're starting to fail. While others concnetrate on looks, I concentrate on the actual system. Actually somebody who says that Blizz-ABS doesn't support good looks doesn't deserve to use it. I would rather say that people haven't EVEN TRIED making Blizz-ABS look good. Add the animations and spriteset from the XAS demo and you can get AT LEAST 80% of its "flashieness" in Blizz-ABS as well. You can get 10% more by simply configuring the script right. And the last 10% would be script edits. And this is what I will most probably do. I will use some of the files from the XAS demo and show that they look equally good in Blizz-ABS if you CARE TO CONFIGURE IT. [massive sarcasm]And configuring Blizz-ABS is so complicated. You have to click a few buttons. OMG, I'd rather type some script configuration in XAS where there is danger of syntax errors and faulty configurations caused by the simpliest typing mistakes.[/massive sarcasm] Seriously.

I have loads of features that other ABSes don't. i.e. The corpse system. Have other ABSes a corpse system? No. The maximum they have are item drops. But people don't seem to appreciate things like that. All they want is a nice HUD and 3481465235483 animations and flying numbers on the screen at the same time. I'm sorry, but I like PLAYING games more than LOOKING at them. If I want nice looks, I go watch a movie. I have gotten so many complains about the HUD already that I'm really sick of it. Most ABSes don't EVEN come with a HUD or at least not with a minimalized HUD that has only the MOST IMPORTANT information and doesn't cover half of your screen. Heck, even if you walk under it, it fades out so you can see what's going on. =/ I provided a HUD for the smaller developers who like it simple, people who need a full and working system. Anybody with some scripting knowledge can create a different HUD. With Blizz-ABS you can even use the already existing code so the HUD is full optimized. Seriously, if one more person asks me to make a nicer HUD, I'll drop Blizz-ABS for good.

I also don't understand what people understand under "customizablity". Blizz-ABS has more than 60 (yes, 60) different options and you don't need to even touch the scripts or make half an event in order to use anything of it. How many predefined options has XAS? I mean options that do something, switches that turn systems on and off, not just the button configuration. If I counted my buttons as well, I'd have more than 80 options. Saying things like "OMG, IN XAS YOU JUST EDIT THE SCRIPT AND..." Stop. Edit the script? Since when can't you edit the code in Blizz-ABS? Have I prohibited that? No. In fact, I have protected the system under a license that ALLOWS editing and FURTHER DISTRIBUTION OF THE EDITED SYSTEM to ENCOURAGE edits and plugins. Another feature are the automated pickup sounds of items. Other ABSes usually don't have it. You have to event it or whatever. In Blizz-ABS you just define the sound and there you go, fully automated. Pixel Movement, which of the other ABSes has Pixel Movement? And not just Pixel Movement, VARIABLE Pixel Movement. Change it anytime during the game. And what about a built-in, fully optimized minimap? Just like the HUD, you can create your own or create one that is based on the already existing one. I'm starting to think that most people haven't even looked at HALF of the features I provided. Not to mention the additional information in the Manual like keyboard key access. I would rather say people are biased. Sure, the other system have things that Blizz-ABS doesn't. But just saying that Blizz-ABS is bad because it doesn't support those features? That's completely biased. Also, Blizz-ABS has been created with user input. A majority of the features was requested. When did you see something like that in other ABSes? Even now I am still adding requested features. Just this time those features are features that other ABSes provide. From my point of view Blizz-ABS is already way ahead of the other systems. When I add the features they support, Blizz-ABS will almost literally have swallowed them.

What about compatibility? Does XAS support Tons of Add-ons?! SDK?! ccoa's UMS?! CRLS?! Does it work with the default battle system?! Can you use skills in XAS IN THE NORMAL MENU?!

Maybe I should stop. Maybe I should forcefully add the features from other ABSes (which means in a user-unfriendly manner without any documentation) and simply let the system die. Blizz-ABS would STILL be ahead of the other systems. Some things would be hard to use like in other systems, but there are still the Blizz-ABS native features. Sure, the people that are using Blizz-ABS are alright, but I am adding the other features mainly because of the users of other ABSes and yet most of them keep spitting at Blizz-ABS. I mean, hello? I am doing that for YOU guys and you treat me and Blizz-ABS like that? I am adding the features you like in other ABSes so you can use a system that is better and still have your favorite features IN A MUCH MORE USER-FRIENDLY INTERFACE and you keep saying it's crap? Well, thank you very much (refering here very specifically to the person who started this discussion). I would LOVE to add a restriction to the usage of Blizz-ABS for anybody who said it was crap and/or keeps saying that even now (actually only XAS users have done that so far). Let's see how they make fully automated chain combos in XAS WITHOUT TOUCHING THE SCRIPTS while in Blizz-ABS 2.x they will have to click a few times and generate the configuration script.
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legacyblade

^ I was going to say the thing about the custom AI setup.

And I agree with the annoyance at complaints of the hud. there is a freaking option to TURN OFF the hud, so you can use another hud. Honestly, you can even use the XAS hud in a blizzABS game.

Though I do disagree on some points. True, much of XAS' flashyness is in the animations and flying text. However, the speed at which blizzABS attack sprite-sets animate make them look not so nice. I think I try my hand at an animation control addon, so that it can look just as nice. However, XAS' skills do have a lot of features XAS doesn't support yet. You don't have to do THAT much in the script for setup, but I agree that blizzABS' setup is nice, simple, and fast. (I was surprised how easy it was, after switching from XAS). I haven't tried it yet, but maybe if I have the skill call a common event, I'll be able to event what the player does. If that works, then blizzABS has much of XAS' functionality, just not as visibly.

I personally like the corpse system. With an addon, you could make the corpses like those in Morrowind and Oblivion, where it opens up a screen where you can select which items to take (which would work well with scripts that limit the amount of items you hold). BlizzABS has quite a bit of functionality, but most people are just biased because they see an old script version's demo, and this demo doesn't even show much of that version's capacity. I think before condemning a script as poor, you should at least read the manual. Until I read the blizzABS manual, I thought it was a feature-lacking poorly written ABS. and I only read the manual because I was bored.

But I agree with the compatibility thing. XAS does support the UMS, but not much else. The bABS has seamless integration with nearly every battle addon script there is (quite possibly because a vast majority of them are in tons of addons, XD), whereas I still am unable to even find a caterpillar script that works with XAS. As much as I like the features of XAS, changing even ONE thing results in heck. Thus, I like the blizzABS. If I want to change the order of the skills in XAS, or rearrange them, you go through heck. In blizzABS, it just takes a few clicks.

I think though, blizz, one thing you said in that last paragraph is actually a good idea. You could add all the features of the other ABS' without worrying too much about ease of use. You could do a sorta tons of addons thing, but just blizzABS addons. It wouldn't be configured in the config, and it would allow all those who are complaining about some of blizzABS' features to be satisfied. Then later, after blizzABS 2.0, you could integrate them into the config in a very userfriendly manner. But either way, blizzABS still rocks. In XAS, the only way enemies could beat me is if their evented AI coding was so messy, that my computer lagged like heck. The blizzABS enemies can beat the crap out of you without your computer even missing a few frames of the action.

Needless to say, blizzABS fits MOST of my needs, and for everything else: there's addons. Some however, should go with XAS for now. It DOES do a few things better, even if its extremely difficult to use, and is incompatible. For example, a zelda game. blizzABS couldn't make an actiony puzzle game very well, because that's not what it's built for!I fact, if I'm correct, the original XAS engine was just a tool engine, made for just such a purpose. Mog, however, has compiled this, and tons of his addons into the hero edition of XAS. XAS is just a zelda system with RPG based addons.

Anyways, this post is long and rambling, but the point is this

blizzABS CAN be flashy. Get a new hud if you want, just don't ask for it to be implemented in the script. In fact, you can probably use quite a few of mog's addons with blizzABS with very few edits.

XAS is optimized more for adventure games, but can work as a actiony RPG.

blizzABS is optimized for strategy, features, and role playing depth (not visual immersion though). Games like secret of mana 2 could be easily remade with this

XAS Hero Edition (notice I didn't just say XAS this time) is optimized for flashy graphical immersion, and a zelda meets rpg style game (where zelda still had most of the influence on the game.)

blizzABS is compatible with most scripts, and has advanced AI, and many lag-free features

With XAS, good luck getting most scripts to work with it. And lets face it, it is kinda laggy.

That's my 13 cents.

Blizzard

October 23, 2008, 05:38:19 pm #79 Last Edit: October 23, 2008, 05:42:24 pm by Blizzard
Quote from: legacyblade on October 23, 2008, 05:23:13 pm
Though I do disagree on some points. True, much of XAS' flashyness is in the animations and flying text. However, the speed at which blizzABS attack sprite-sets animate make them look not so nice.


I agree with that and, as I said already, I will change that. :)

Quote from: legacyblade on October 23, 2008, 05:23:13 pm
I think I try my hand at an animation control addon, so that it can look just as nice.


Even though your edit wouldn't turn out to be complicated. -_-;;;

Quote from: legacyblade on October 23, 2008, 05:23:13 pm
However, XAS' skills do have a lot of features XAS doesn't support yet. You don't have to do THAT much in the script for setup, but I agree that blizzABS' setup is nice, simple, and fast. (I was surprised how easy it was, after switching from XAS). I haven't tried it yet, but maybe if I have the skill call a common event, I'll be able to event what the player does. If that works, then blizzABS has much of XAS' functionality, just not as visibly.


As I said, that won't be necessary. :D "Blizz-ABS Chain Combos", remember? ^_^

Quote from: legacyblade on October 23, 2008, 05:23:13 pm
I personally like the corpse system. With an addon, you could make the corpses like those in Morrowind and Oblivion, where it opens up a screen where you can select which items to take (which would work well with scripts that limit the amount of items you hold). BlizzABS has quite a bit of functionality, but most people are just biased because they see an old script version's demo, and this demo doesn't even show much of that version's capacity. I think before condemning a script as poor, you should at least read the manual. Until I read the blizzABS manual, I thought it was a feature-lacking poorly written ABS. and I only read the manual because I was bored.


Then I really need to update the demo ASAP. I am wondering if the demo even supports 30% of the features of the current version. Yes, I said 40% earlier, I was optimistic. -_-;;;

Quote from: legacyblade on October 23, 2008, 05:23:13 pm
But I agree with the compatibility thing. XAS does support the UMS, but not much else. The bABS has seamless integration with nearly every battle addon script there is (quite possibly because a vast majority of them are in tons of addons, XD)


Not just that, it should technically support any add-on that is coded on Game_Actor class base instead of Scene_Battle base.

Quote from: legacyblade on October 23, 2008, 05:23:13 pm
I think though, blizz, one thing you said in that last paragraph is actually a good idea. You could add all the features of the other ABS' without worrying too much about ease of use. You could do a sorta tons of addons thing, but just blizzABS addons. It wouldn't be configured in the config, and it would allow all those who are complaining about some of blizzABS' features to be satisfied. Then later, after blizzABS 2.0, you could integrate them into the config in a very userfriendly manner. But either way, blizzABS still rocks. In XAS, the only way enemies could beat me is if their evented AI coding was so messy, that my computer lagged like heck. The blizzABS enemies can beat the crap out of you without your computer even missing a few frames of the action.


I know that I could do that, but it wouldn't be such a good idea after all. Since it won't be thought through properly *cough* ... great job on thinking, Xiderowg >.< ... *cough*, it will be a pain to integrate a proper interface for the features later. Did you know that I had to change the numeration of the weapon/skill/item types in v1.99? I bet that made many people angry because they had to rename their files. And that was just a MINOR (but highly necessary!) edit in the system. ._.

Quote from: legacyblade on October 23, 2008, 05:23:13 pm
Needless to say, blizzABS fits MOST of my needs, and for everything else: there's addons. Some however, should go with XAS for now. It DOES do a few things better, even if its extremely difficult to use, and is incompatible. For example, a zelda game. blizzABS couldn't make an actiony puzzle game very well, because that's not what it's built for!I fact, if I'm correct, the original XAS engine was just a tool engine, made for just such a purpose. Mog, however, has compiled this, and tons of his addons into the hero edition of XAS. XAS is just a zelda system with RPG based addons.


I agree with that. As I said, this won't stay that way for long. :naughty:

Quote from: legacyblade on October 23, 2008, 05:23:13 pm
Anyways, this post is long and rambling, but the point is this

blizzABS CAN be flashy. Get a new hud if you want, just don't ask for it to be implemented in the script. In fact, you can probably use quite a few of mog's addons with blizzABS with very few edits.

XAS is optimized more for adventure games, but can work as a actiony RPG.

blizzABS is optimized for strategy, features, and role playing depth (not visual immersion though). Games like secret of mana 2 could be easily remade with this

XAS Hero Edition (notice I didn't just say XAS this time) is optimized for flashy graphical immersion, and a zelda meets rpg style game (where zelda still had most of the influence on the game.)


Yup, it's not XAS that's flashy, it's the demo. Just prepare for "Chronicles of Sir Lag-A-Lot Third Edition" and "The Legend of Lexima IV - Nemesis' Wrath". >:3 OMG, WHAT I HAVE PLANNED FOR TLOL4 - NW WILL EAT EVEN COSLAL 3E ALIVE! :twitch: And I will NOT release NW unencrypted.

Quote from: legacyblade on October 23, 2008, 05:23:13 pm
blizzABS is compatible with most scripts, and has advanced AI, and many lag-free features

With XAS, good luck getting most scripts to work with it. And lets face it, it is kinda laggy.

That's my 13 cents.


There is still one issue with lag in Blizz-ABS which I have to fix (hopefully in 2.0, I bet you had no idea there was one ;) ). It should decrease lag on the map caused by map battlers by up to 50%.
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Quote from: winkioI do not speak to bricks, either as individuals or in wall form.

Quote from: Barney StinsonWhen I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.