New president of the USA!

[winkio]

First off, I don't care what your political stance is, no exuberant spamming and no flaming.  Period.

Now, Obama has been elected the new president of the United States.  This is epic for 3 reasons:
1.  He is black
2.  He is a drastic change from Bush, the previous president
3.  He won my a very large margin, more than 100 electoral college votes, unlike any recent presidents

So, what do you think of this?  I'm interested to hear some foreign perspectives on my country as well, so put in your opinion!

no exuberant spamming and no flaming.  Period.

[Starrodkirby86]

I honestly could have posted this like you have did considering I was wholly stuck on the computer during 8pm PFC, the decision time because of California's Electoral Votes (55 big ones came to Obama).

The first African American President...Wow...I'm proud of America. From its days of slavery where blacks had no rights, now it's finally time that African Americans...Yeah...You see what I'm saying. This is an amazing step towards history and I'm sure Lincoln would be proud.

Obama won by 338 to 156 approx. in electoral votes...Points would vary here and there, but oh well.

Congrats, we're in an Obamanation. 

EDIT: It seems someone wasn't happy of McCain... (NSFW?)

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=John_McCain&oldid=249793851

[Fantasist]

An African American for the president of the USA, now I can say that most of the world has gotten over the racial barrier. I'm really curious how things will turn out for the USA (and the rest of the world?)
PS: I'm not into politics AT ALL, but this grabbed my attention from the bottom of my heart, that should speak for itself

[Diokatsu]

I'm sure it's big on the grand scheme but the most important thing is he fufill his duties as president. No matter who they are, the president has responsibility as the leader of the American people to uphold the Constitiution vigilantly and as long as he does this, the world will be a better place.

I want to make a point though: I hope he is remembered, not for being the first African-American president, but as an amazing president. THAT will eliminate not only the political barriers but the social barriers. He made history once, and I'd sure as hell love to see him make it many more times, in ways that truely benefit our country. And if his administrate can truly deliver, then let all mouths be free from racism further more. That being said, this is a monumental day for people of African descent all over the world and my sincere congratulations goes to them.

I also want to point out the amazing consession speech by John McCain. He is truly a man who served our country and a honorable one at that. It really does me good knowing that either way, we would've had an amazing president. And some cheer for Ralph Nader, who got 1% of votes in my home state of Massachusetts.

Well done to every candidate and well done to the former administration. No bad words to George Bush, his term is over and we might have disliked him, but it was he, not us, who took this responsibility and has more resolve than I. Let all bitter feelings quell and celebrate today, not look back onto yesterday. At least for the time being that is

Not: Ahhhhh....How bout Reagan...or Nixon? They CRUSHED the opposition. Not too epic....

[Reygekan]

1.  He is black

He's actually 1/4 black, 1/4 arab, and 1/2 white. So technically speaking, he's more white than black

2.  He is a drastic change from Bush, the previous president

Can't say that until he actually -does- something

3.  He won my a very large margin, more than 100 electoral college votes, unlike any recent presidents

That's true in the electoral college, although in terms of the popular vote he was only up about 1%

I don't think that his race, crushing the opposition, or his difference from Bush are all too important though- Hilton was way different than Bush but that didn't stop him from being a treasonous bastard. Also, technically, if he dies before January he wont be president

Anyway, I think it's all great and everything, but seeing how he hasn't actually accomplished anything yet I find that I don't really care and my stance is neutral until he actually accomplishes something as president of the  United States. =/

[winkio]

Ok, this is what I was trying to avoid in this topic:  argument.  This topic is not to argue with others.  This topic is to give your opinions and discuss.

So, to kill the argument quickly and revert back to discussion, I will not respond to any arguments that other people start up.


NEW RULE: NO ARGUMENT


That said, I do think that it is interesting that we haven't seen Obama in action yet.  We never know what kind of a surprise we might get.  I, however, think he will do exactly what he set himself up to do, in terms of his political stances, because he, although a politician, still has morals.  And a soul.  And a sense of pride.  Anyways, I think that his speedy rise to power is only the beggining of his great list to achievements, and I look forward to seeing what he does next.

Another point: Cynicism sucks.  I know the government is crazy, and most Americans don't understand it because it doesn't revolve around them, but seriously.  Very few people even vote to begin with.  If Americans delved more into their own political situation, I think we would be a much more motivated nation.  We get out of our government what we put into our government.

[Blizzard]

If the topic gets out of control, simply report the post and request locking.

[Shadonking]

im not really that botherd about who won but i think he was the best candidate.

but time can only tell if he is a good president, and lets hope that he actualy gets the USA to care about the enviroment and see what he does about all the other problems that Bush has made.

[Reives]

How can you have a political thread and allow "discussion" yet at the same time disallow "argument"? They're practically the same thing, unless by argument it means "flaming".

That's true in the electoral college, although in terms of the popular vote he was only up about 1%

Did you get that info from Fox? Kidding kidding. But aye, that is blatantly false - the popular vote ratio is actually 53% vs. 46%; one of the largest gap in recent history and the first democratic nominee to break 50% since Jimmy Carter.

[Just correcting a fact, I'm unarmed!]

[Reygekan]

Ok, this is what I was trying to avoid in this topic:  argument.

If you were referring to me, I wasn't arguing- just giving my input.

Oh, really? I stopped watching after Obama won via electoral college, so I didn't know how the end result was in terms of popular result, thanks for the correction ^_^

Woooh, other parties got 1%! =P

[Starrodkirby86]

Ah, so it was 53 to 46. I thought it was something along the lines of 52 to 48, but that's still an achievement to think about. Congratulations Obama once more.

If the topic gets out of control, simply report the post and request locking.

Or rather just lock it yourself. XD

You know, I heard about foreign relations have gone much smoother and friendlier now that Obama is president-elect. Overall out in the world, it shows a change we're making in America as Obama is the first "African-American" as the president...I talked to some of my friends from other countries, they love Obama and apparently their country loves him as well.

[Diokatsu]

Woooh, other parties got 1%! =P

Always a good reason to celebrate!

[Shadonking]

yeh about other countries loving Obama, im from england and we think he is great for two main reasons

1. he is not an idiot
2. he seems trust worthy

lets just hope were right. time can only tell

[Diokatsu]

yeh about other countries loving Obama, im from england and we think he is great for two main reasons

1. he is not an idiot
2. he seems trust worthy

lets just hope were right. time can only tell

You make it seem like John McCain was an idiot or George Bush was an idiot...I don't wanna hear about presidents being idiot or stupid as they're much more highly educated than you or me

[winkio]

Since people are still not understanding this, let me outline the differences between discussions and arguments.  No, nobody did anything drastically wrong, but I think some people want clarification.

In a discussion, multiple people talk about a subject by giving their opinions.  Everyone acknowledges other people's posts, but the focus is on the topic, not what other people said.  The main idea of these are not usually targeted at any individual in particular, unless you desire to hear their input in particular.  You can correct facts in a discussion.
Common responses to other people's posts include: "I agree, and [insert point on topic here]" and "I respect that, and [insert point on topic here]"

In an argument, the focus shifts from the subject itself to other people's opinions on the subject, and it usually but not always gets out of control.  These are usually targeted at a specific person or group of people.  People usually try to rebuke opinions in an argument.
Common responses to other people's posts include: "But [insert rebuttal here]" and "Except [insert rebuttal here]"
Example from this thread:

You make it seem like John McCain was an idiot or George Bush was an idiot...I don't wanna hear about presidents being idiot or stupid as they're much more highly educated than you or me

The correct way to say the above in a discussion would be:

It is interesting that some call presidents idiotic or stupid as they're much more highly educated than most of us.  Plus they are surrounded with tons of smart advisers.


I'm sorry, but you must realize that if we start having a political argument, this thread will get out of hand really quickly.
Now that we have that out of the way....

I think it is interesting that Obama's election has such drastic effects on the global scale, even though Bush is still president.  In a press conference today, reporters asked Obama what he was going to do with the economy, and his reply was something to the effect of "there can only be one president of the United States."  Do you think we all should be ignoring Bush right now?  Because, after all, he still is president for another two months.  And it's not like Obama will be able to do too much until then.

[Diokatsu]

dis.cus.sion \dis-'k*sh-*n\ n 1: consideration of a question in open usu.
   informal debate

Yeah....If you didn't foresee this, you might want to try thinking about the possiblities next time. And it would be debate, not arguement. you never labeled this as a discussion, merely stating that there was to be no flaming nor spamming. Furthermore, there is no reason to go through all the trouble of posting a summary of the nature of the discussion if you never even declared this a discussion. you asked for peoples opinions, and even when things turned into a debate of sorts you merely said no arguing. So can I ask what it is this thread is about? I find it strange that Shadon said he WASN'T an idiot. and yes I did mean to confront him on it:

It is interesting that some call presidents idiotic or stupid as they're much more highly educated than most of us.  Plus they are surrounded with tons of smart advisers.

That is a statement of an observation. My sentence was one expressing sentiments that are personal to me and proclaiming that I didn't want to hear about such a thing as the stupidity of the presidency. It may have seemed rash to you but no where do I not have the right to not express my views in the mannerism I choose. You call a formality to an informal thread. If you wish for a structured debate or discussion maybe you should set some rules?

Oh, I'd word that statement differently too if we were in a more formal setting.

I find it to be disturbing how people have such a biased view on the current president's intellegence. It seems to me that no one can contemplate the stresses of such a job and have no prior knowledge of leadership of anything nearly as important. Moreover, the failure to recognize the education of presidents, while appalling, is almost as disturbing as the inability to recognize the cabinets intellegence as well. People seem to blame the president for all our problems, when he holds but a third of the power.

[winkio]

Now you see how this can spiral out of control.  There is more than one definition for everything, and I just defined both for your use in this topic.  If you want to argue with me more, I plead you to stop, because I really am not going to do it.

This topic is not for confronting people on what they say.  This topic is not to instigate reactions from other people.  The purpose is simply to say your views, hear some others, and discuss and perhaps learn more from the experience.  It is not to prove people wrong.  It is not to shut people down.  That kind of a topic is not about the New President of the USA: it is about everyone's conflicting opinions on the topic.

Dio, I'm not trying to be mean, elitist, ignorant or whatever else you are attempting to argue with me about.  I'm trying to keep this topic free from rampant opinions that don't really add anything to the discussion.

So please, I've tried to keep this topic under control.  If you can't handle these rules and would rather argue your opinions against other peoples, or if you feel that your person cannot be contained within these bounds, please start a new, separate topic.  Thank you.

Side note: if it's really worth it to any of you to keep arguing in this thread, I will report it and it will be locked by Blizz.

[Diokatsu]

Ok ok. I will stop arguing my point. I just think he needs to do something before he will be "epic". I do respect that this is an amazing day for African-Americans and other African people around the globe

[Blizzard]

How can you have a political thread and allow "discussion" yet at the same time disallow "argument"? They're practically the same thing, unless by argument it means "flaming".

Wrong. Argument is a more heated discussion if not even more than that. And it's a discussion about what the new president will/should do, not about why he won or shouldn't have won or whatever which would most probably turn into a debate which is between discussion and argument. Flaming would be an argument that got way out of control even though an argument is already an out-of-control debate.

Discussion < Debate < Argument < Flaming

And now let's stop going off-topic.

@Dio: I wouldn't agree with you and the statement of education, because education doesn't make you smart or sharpminded. I know loads of people at my college who have great grades, but they are simply idiots. There's nothing that can be done about it. I'm not saying that Bush was an idiot, because I don't know him personally. But based on his actions he has only proven that he most likely is an idiot rather than not.
I hope Obama will do something good and not just mayhem. Oh, where are all those presidents I've heard so much in the American history? Seems like people of that calibur don't become president anymore. ._. I really hope that Obama will do something for the common good rather than the U.S.A.'s own good at any cost only. ._.

[Punn]

Bush got 17% approval rating. Lowest in presidential history.
(Is he dumb nao?)



Btw, anyone know where Bush is?

[Diokatsu]

Bush got 17% approval rating. Lowest in presidential history.
(Is he dumb nao?)



Btw, anyone know where Bush is?

That has nothing to do with intelligence...

And he's still president

[Starrodkirby86]

Bush got 17% approval rating. Lowest in presidential history.
(Is he dumb nao?)



Btw, anyone know where Bush is?

That has nothing to do with intelligence...

And he's still president

Yeah, but it has something to do with problem-solving! That's a form of intelligence!

He should still be in the White House or traveling around to parties and whatever. After the presidency, I think he said he's going to Dallas or Texas...Someone be a stalker, quick!

[winkio]

Yes, Bush is still president, but nobody really cares.  I mean seriously, has he even gotten his face onto the news in the past week?

In my opinion, 17% approval doesn't have to mean that you are dumb.  You could also be self-centered, ignorant, an egotist, or pure evil.  
In my opinion tho, Bush relates more to the average American, hence why he got elected.  
Oh, and about his education.  He went to Yale, failed many courses, and barely got through.  Yeah, somehow, I don't think he very smart.  But Dio is right: since when has intelligence mattered?  Although there were many intelligent presidents, there were also great ones that weren't as much.  Washington, Lincoln, and many others.  So in the end, I don't think intelligence matters.  kind of like what blizz said, It's how you make decisions.  Bush has proven to have made some very bad ones, in my opinion and in most Americans' opinions, I think even on the global scale.

I do, however, think that intelligence helps good decision making.


Besides, who can call any other politician dumb after we've seen some prominent other candidates like, oh, idk, Sarah Palin?

[Diokatsu]

Yeah, but it has something to do with problem-solving! That's a form of intelligence!

He should still be in the White House or traveling around to parties and whatever. After the presidency, I think he said he's going to Dallas or Texas...Someone be a stalker, quick!

Pick me!

I hope he doesn't die from some's doing. That would disgrace the American way of the succession of power

Also Winkio....Don't make a post like that unless you want to stir controversy

[winkio]

Are you kidding?  I don''t think anyone would kill Bush now, what with his exit on the horizon.  The time would definitely have been during the economy crash, but since he's still safe, I think he'll be fine.

And yes, my last post had many opinions on it, but they were opinions on the topic, not opinions on other people's opinions.  See?

I think that the past 8 years haven't really been Bush's fault.  I think that the Republican party got in control, and then just unloaded everything they could to try and maintain the country using their philosophy.  I doubt Bush would intentionally ruin the economy, but it was just a side effect of his party's ideas.
Then, they party reformed ever so slightly while McCain campaigned.
Now, I think that they will have to make a real reform since they were defeated so badly.

[Blizzard]

It's true. Many decisions are made by the congress after all. Looks to me like Bush was rather a sacrifice lamb. This is also why I would say that his intellect isn't too high since he let them do that to him. :/
Also, if somebody would kill Bush, he would become a martyr which is ironic. Most people would love to kill him to get rid of him, but instead they would make him a half-legend.

[Punn]

Approval Rating means the percentage of American thinks how good the president did their job.
I never said anything about intelligence... other then his method as a president aren't good.. o.O;;

[Diokatsu]

You asked if he was dumb now, after mentioning that he got the lowest approval ratings. That sound like you were saying he's dumb because of those ratings. Maybe a misunderstnading.

And the topic is on Obama, winkio. you must've ment the digression on the topic xD

Yes, I too think Geoge Bush has been the scapegoat throughout all of this. Not his fault seeing as he can't have really /caused/ the econmic crisis, like people blame him for. Adn many smart people still can be manipulated. A lack of willpower is more like it.

Andyways...This topic is kinda done, unless someone wants to start talking about the government xD Or if someone else wants to throw their opinion in here

[Shadonking]

i agree that bush didnt make the econmic crisis (that was the banks fault) he just started a war that doesnt look legal then draged us into it making us lose lots of people, then he was ignoring the facts of the environment which is a stupid thing to do. at least now amarica will be careful with the power they use and its effects on the enviroment (i hope).

[Punn]

Bush was raped!?

[Reygekan]

Because, of course, the approval of the public has always been a good thing. Let's think back to the good times of slavery, religious persecution, and homocide.

[winkio]

Yes, popular opinion isn't always right.  But then again, the US is run by popular opinion so it has to have some worth.  Saying popular opinion doesn't mean too much is like saying that who voters vote for doesn't mean that much.

Anyways, I think that nothing, absolutely nothing, of political character will get any media in the next two months except what Obama does.  Then, when he is president, the media will still be all over him like vultures.  Should we even care how Bush finishes his term?  Because I think that many of us don't

And Punn, what the f**k do you think you are doing?  Seriously...

[Reives]

Since people are still not understanding this, let me outline the differences between discussions and arguments.  No, nobody did anything drastically wrong, but I think some people want clarification.

Wrong. Argument is a more heated discussion if not even more than that. And it's a discussion about what the new president will/should do, not about why he won or shouldn't have won or whatever which would most probably turn into a debate which is between discussion and argument. Flaming would be an argument that got way out of control even though an argument is already an out-of-control debate.

Hold ye horses!

I was merely attempting to make a joke-remark about how easy it is for any talk about politics to get out of control, and evidently failed. My apologies on the unclarity, I should've made certain parts italic and certain others bold like this:

How can you have a political thread and allow "discussion" yet at the same time disallow "argument"? They're practically the same thing, unless by argument it means "flaming". [-bold-][-/bold]

My bad.


Did anyone watch his first press conference yesterday?

[Ryex]

Well despite the fact that I think that this topic was a VERY bad idea (as as it has proven topics like this CAN'T stay on topic) I'll give My opinion of Obama

Good

• Good Ideas for things like taxes.
  However - McCain would of given my family a bigger tax bake than Obama (fact not opinion)
  
• knows how to listen to the public
  
• GREAT speaker
  
• almost INCREDIBLE ethos
  
• will most likely be goo for relations with other countries
  

Bad

• knows squat about most of of the countries physical systems (electricity and the like)
  
• almost no experience
  
• he had better choose some dam good advisers or he is going to fail miserably (opinion)
  
• if he pulls US troops out in the manner he has suggested he is going to the region will be come very unstable he needs to listen to the General in that area
  
• dose not have a good track record for the things he is proposing.
  

there you have it what I think of Obama enjoy

most of this dose not matter now that he has been elected but do what you will with is.

[Blizzard]

Yeah, things got a bit out of control and it went offtopic. >.<

Since people are still not understanding this, let me outline the differences between discussions and arguments.  No, nobody did anything drastically wrong, but I think some people want clarification.

Wrong. Argument is a more heated discussion if not even more than that. And it's a discussion about what the new president will/should do, not about why he won or shouldn't have won or whatever which would most probably turn into a debate which is between discussion and argument. Flaming would be an argument that got way out of control even though an argument is already an out-of-control debate.

Hold ye horses!

I was merely attempting to make a joke-remark about how easy it is for any talk about politics to get out of control, and evidently failed. My apologies on the unclarity, I should've made certain parts italic and certain others bold like this:

Apology taken. xD Yeah, I guess I misunderstood what you wanted to say. It's true, things can easily get out of control when politics are involved.

[winkio]

While McCain would have helped a few families, Obama will help 95% of them.  In my opinion, I think that those 95% need it more than those other 5%.

And yes, I agree Iraq and such could become a sticky situation if we make more mistakes by pulling out stupidly.  But I doubt that Obama will just do whatever he wants without getting the advice of experts.  At a press conference a few days ago, he talked with I think it was 15 of the most respected financial experts.  I doubt he will ignore the experts on the war.

On the topic of experience, I think that some amount of experience is good for politicians.  But I don't think that any amount of experience can really prepare them for being president (except presidential experience, of course).

The other thing I like about Obama is his character.  First, has no chance of dying in office except for assassination, unlike McCain.  Second, he is always tactful in his arguments, which I think will help with foreign policy and perhaps negotiations in Iraq.  Third, he is all about change and hope, which are uplifting ideas for the US at the moment.  He is not about fear or control, but belief and respect.

[Ryex]

no chance of dying in office except for assassination, unlike McCain. 

I'v always hated this argument about voting for Obama, I mean seriously McCain is NOT going to die THAT soon.

Second, he is always tactful in his arguments, which I think will help with foreign policy and perhaps negotiations in Iraq.  Third, he is all about change and hope, which are uplifting ideas for the US at the moment.  He is not about fear or control, but belief and respect.

This is why I listed Good for relations in the Good category

[Diokatsu]

ITT: Obama-lover -.-

Seriously...Obama is not getting my damn support until he does something! How about we not even talk about how much better Obama his, it's just sooooo apparent and he's just sooooo amazing. Really now, you give evidence and then make an assumption on an entirely different issue. Character has nothing to do with dying in office, which McCain would not do. Prove me wrong and I'll concede, but everyone who says this is just assuming old people have to die. He's healthy and strong-willed, so I'm sure he's going to live a bit long than all of you expect -.- McCain just doesn't have the presentation that Obama does, and his foreign experiences outclass Obamas 10 to 1. McCain and the Republican Party are NOT about fear and control. Absurd post is absurd. AND, Obama doesn't pass laws, he just vetos them.

Obama is a fine person and will prolly be an amazing president and go down in history and all that. You won the election, just let a man who served our country live out his life in peace, instead of taking shots at his policies after he lost. Seriously you act like everyone of the kids at my school who supports Obama. Always giving so much more than he deserves. If he turns out great, he will, if he fails, he will.

BTW: I'm not Republican..Socialist here

[winkio]

Why are you two getting so upset?  There's no reason to be one bit frustrated.  You need to respect everyone else's opinions like they respect yours.

You both have just proven to me that you can't actually handle this form of communication, so I guess I was wrong to think that the people here could interact with each other with a bit of maturity.  You two obviously either haven't listened or have not understood what I have said, and either way, it's too much.  I'm sorry for opening up this wargrounds, and I definitely won't do it again.  I'll report it now.


To those of you who did handle this situation:  Good job, but I don't think that there is any way that we can keep it to just a discussions with so many people of varying personalities.  Thank you, and I'm sorry.