Use of Clichés in RPGs

[Blizzard]

But a female protagonist is also cliché. ._. And it's not like you have a big choice there: male of female. Of course, there still are the genderless and hemaphrodites, but they would STILL have traits of one of the genders. It's complicated with gender clichés. >.<

[Diokatsu]

O.o Gender clichés.....

You could always have an animal :V

I just want to point out that saying gender is an element to be considered cliché isn't really the big problem. If you make a unique character, regardless of whether it's male or female, it's not going to be considered cliché. It's more important to focus on the aspects you want in your character and then manifest them as the gender most, or least in some cases, associated with those characteristics.

[Fallen Angel X]

There's always the possibility of an alien that can asexually reproduce and has no gender ._.

And in terms of a character's trait, such as personality, you will definetly hit a cliche. Take for example a game where you'd have to save the world. Although the character's other personality traits may be original and most likely a tad eccentric, they will most likely have a trait of being determined or courageous.  Reasons why? If they weren't courageous, they wouldn't be there trying to save the world. Why would it be a problem? It's not.. but I would consider it a cliche due to it being used a lot. Does that mean you should omit it? Nope, you can always develop the character to go from coward to brave hero of light ._.

And yes, I'm picking at the cliches that are a lot more harder to avoid. But let's put a cliche in and I'd want to see how you'd write your way around it.

You have a main protagonist and possibly a crew of teammates, doesn't really matter. The main villain doesn't want to destroy the world but rather is a dictator over the protagonist's country. All in all, the dictator isn't completely evil, he does a pretty good job of running the country at the cost of the people's freedom. Now the protagonist is an idealist and he wants to be rid of the government. He stirs up the townspeople in his hometown and they decide to rebel via protest and no violent means. But now the dictator is fearing the protagonist's hometown and decides to burn it down as a symbol of his/her authority.(Which is the main cliche to work around) And then you'll have the rest of the story ._.

And btw, the main character isn't an uber who could just charge parliament and take over. He's just normal. It's harder to work around b/c the dictator can't just leave the town alone :S And other ways to get rid of the government are cliches themselves so... yeah :S

You don't have to do this, I just want to see how you would work around it so I get a better idea of what you mean. (I wrote this after watching V for Vendetta) xD

[Starrodkirby86]

You know, the more un-cliche items of a story are usually boring things, or something that is normal. In a story, we want something exciting to happen or something that is interesting. I'm sure having bacteria as your main character of the game is definitely original but it's going to be so boring, and no one is going to play a game about the human body. ( )

[Reygekan]

I know I said I'm done, but I just want to clear up something.

Some games have become very succesful with a buttload of cliche- as previously stated, the Tales of series are a great example.

So I do agree that having a lot of cliche' can still make a great game, I just don't approve of it.

Cliche's, Dio, do include things such as gender, and you've hit a rocksolid point- the small cliche' doesn't matter if the overall product is still great, which is pretty much the point we've been arguing the entire time. You cannot, completely avoid cliche'. Ever. Having gods is cliche', having farmers is cliche', have stable AND unstable economies, governments, life forms, and planets is cliche'. Some things are just more obvious than others. Writing a game about a dust particle that requires constant upkeep by mashing A button with nothing to compliment it but a purple background- no levelling, or other forms of interaction, would be extremely original. It'd just be boring.

I'm done for real now <.<

[Fantasist]

I'm sure having bacteria as your main character of the game is definitely original but it's going to be so boring, and no one is going to play a game about the human body.

Interesting... very interesting...

[Starrodkirby86]

I'm sure having bacteria as your main character of the game is definitely original but it's going to be so boring, and no one is going to play a game about the human body.

Interesting... very interesting...

Oh gosh, are you going to make a game about bacteria?

Maybe I stretched that statement a little. People won't be so excited playing a game about...oooh, the enzymes and activity of what's happening in your body!!! ...Compared to...Chaos-Project. I'm talking about the general audience, not people interested in medicine, human activities, or asexualism fetishes.

If you do make a bacteria game or something, I myself would play it. O.o Talk about hypocrisy.

[Blizzard]

How about a game with a really good plot of bacteria that evolved enough and want to take over the brain to control the body so they have a chance to gain control over the world? :V

We all agree that technically everything is cliché. Clichés are not bad, their wrong usage is bad.

How about a developing villain? This also adds another dimension of depth. First he wanted to take over a country, but then after failing he realizes what he did wrong and tries to take over another country with a better plan. And then after he realizes that he can take over the world. He could also got nuts during that time and after failing to take over the world, he decides to try to destroy it instead. Heroes are not the only part where you can add depth by development.

[Fantasist]

Oh gosh, are you going to make a game about bacteria?

Answer to that: Look at my avtar and decide for yourself! MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! >8U

Heroes are not the only part where you can add depth by development.

I agree. In fact, I think more about the villans because I hate the concept of just being "evil". The villans need to have a good reason for their actions.

[Diokatsu]

I think you guys miss the whole element of cliche and confuse it with something that is commonly used. I'd say that things that are the naturual course of events aren't cliche. Gods and such are just normal, seeing as we have gods in this world. If you want to consider those cliches then...You really don't leave anything to craft the story out of. I consider cliches supplements, often overused, that authors add to stories. I'm obviously the minority over here so I probably shouldn't have posted in an opinion thread in an RPG Maker forum XD

[Blizzard]

I got carried away with purpose to demonstrate exactly this. Clichés are considered overused concepts of which everybody is already sick of. If you wrap an overused concept into a good context, it's not a cliché. Clichés are not fixed things, they are something that you create yourself.

[Diokatsu]

Ultimately I think you're right. No matter what, someone has /used/ the idea beforehand. That doesn't make it cliche, it just makes it...well, and idea. cliche is overused AND everyone has seen before. It won't be cliche if you change it. The part that I mean is cliche is the execution. That's what I mean by rewriting. not that you avoid the idea, you make the idea better.

[Blizzard]

Yeah, something like that. You can easily take a cliché idea and make a great concept out of it.

[legacyblade]

Ok, I need to speak my peace. There are elements used in stories, because they work. Or because their aren't alternatives. A male protagonist isn't cliche, it's just that a great deal of the world's fantasy writers are males who can't write a female veiwpoint. I didn't say all, but its difficult to write from the viewpoint of the opposite sex. Does this make a male protagonist cliche? No. Honestly, you have a total of four options: male, female, nuter, or asexual. However, we can't indentify much with an asexual non-human lifeform, so they're not good candidates for a story (maybe a movie, they would work). Just because ideas have been used before, or are used quite often doesn't make them cliche. We have a limited array of things to work with in a story, and EVERYTHING has been done before, but that doesn't make it cliche. However, there are things that have been done THE SAME WAY over and over and over, like a Hero's Journey in fantasy, and "I AM YOUR FATHER" revelation, the prophesied hero who is going to defeat the dark lord, ect. They were once really good an original ideas. And they were just done by combining ideas that were already out there. It's how we combine our ideas that make them unique. You can have a very original story that involves an "I AM YOUR FATHER" revelation, but you need a new twist on it, that makes it feel fresh and new. You can also have a good original hero's journey story, but you're going to have to change it up quite a bit, for it to feel new.

To reiterate, just because an idea has been used before doesn't make it cliche. There are only so many ideas in the world, it's your spin on it that changes things. Using a cliche is a bad thing, in my opinion. If your story NEEDS the cliche, I say rework it. If you can't get around it, then put a new and original take on the cliche. There is a short podcast on this subject, which I think makes the point quite well, and it can be found HERE Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of great games that have very cliched storylines. But what makes a game interesting to me is a new refreshing break from the classic RPG story.

[Cid]

I try to avoid some of the more obvious clichés, but sometimes it's just not worth worrying about. How you handle each scenario is what's most important.

[omegapirate2000]

I'm putting as many cliches as possible in my game as possible, and more awesome for it.

Also, people need to play my demo and make sure that the sound works in it.

EDIT: On the matter of uncliche weapons, I was originally going to make one of my characters weapons be a belt buckle, to make fun of how ridiculous some weapons are solely because they want their character to use a "unique" weapon.

[scoace13]

actually a belt buckle would work especially if the char equipped with it was some kind of robot/cyborg...the buckle could be some kind of power booster/attack modual....so its not that stuipid ...besides cliche weapons really cant be avoided....it almost imposible unless you use somthing ridiculus like a belt buckle...bu trhen you have to build the char around them...which can lead to serious cliches....the kind the ruin a game and make it very predictable.........

[winkio]

In my opinion, a cliche is something that was once, usually recently (within the past century), original but now is overused.  One example of a cliche according to shis definition is an evil robot.

Now on the other hand, things that were never original or were original hundreds or even thousands of years ago are not cliche.  Examples include time-travel, fighting, saving the world, etc.

So what it comes down to for me is this:  a cliche is something popular that everybody knows that can be replaced by an original idea with the same meaning.  If you can't replace it with an original idea, to me at least, it's not cliche. 

examples: 
Game set in medieval era.  What can you directly replace the medieval era with?  Nothing.  it's not cliche.
Male protagonist.  What can you replace it with?  Nothing.  no cliche
A game where the hero's town is destroyed.  replacable?  Yes.  cliche.
Character sacrifices himself and saves others.  cliche?  Yes.

You see what I'm getting at?  Cliches are often specific sequences, and there is little variation in how to present the same cliche.  Other ideas, however, are not specific, and therefore can be presented in many different manners.

[omegapirate2000]

actually a belt buckle would work especially if the char equipped with it was some kind of robot/cyborg...the buckle could be some kind of power booster/attack modual

No, he would just hit people with his belt buckle.

[scoace13]

then yeah it stupid


@winko.......I see what your saying and now that you say that it brings up the question...what is to old to be cliche...or better still whats the youngest that a popular idea can be to not be cliche....?


hmmmmm i shall ponder this for a while