Your thoughts of Government

[Tazero]

I hate the government they're killing our economy..... Sorry if this offends anyone!

[winkio]

Who killed the economy?  The government single-handedly, against the best effort of large multinational corporations?  I don't think so.  They were a contributor, but they weren't the only one.  Once you mature, you will realize how much government does for you.  Like give you education, comfort, security, and transportation, among others.

[fugibo]

The government of the USA is the biggest bunch of moronic hypocrites I've ever seen. Here are just three of my problems, the list is never-ending (note, however, that I fully understand how huge the job is, but that doesn't mean we can't have people with some intelligence running the country):

FDIC: Okay, so we know the banks are gonna crash, but the people won't use them if they know that, and if they don't use them the economy won't be good, so what do we do? OMG I GOT IT!!!! LET'S JUST USE UP ALL OF OUR MONEY THAT WE DON'T HAVE INSURING IDIOTS THAT SHOULDN'T BE ALLOWED TO BORROW FROM A BANK THAT WE SHOULD BE PREVENTING FROM CRASHING IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!!! AHA, THAT'S IT!!!!!

School: No Child Left Behind. School doesn't do any good if we can't learn while we're there.

Congress: Does anyone get the impression that we're electing other people, and a very small group of them, who have a very slim chance of sharing our opinion at all?

[tSwitch]

I hate the government they're killing our economy..... Sorry if this offends anyone!

explain.

[text]

I'm not much a fan either, but the government has always been run by big business and lawsuits.

edit: also, this sounds like it will become a debate.
so moving.

[Diokatsu]

The government...I neither hate nor support it. The government ruined the economy? No, the economy ruined itself. The government ruined it only in negligence and I can't even say that the economy doesn't deserve this. i will say that the government should as whole stay out of the economy's affairs. That's my personal belief, but let's not get into that. You say they destroyed it, but where is your proof? As far as I can see, the businesses themselves destroyed themselves. That's the honest truth. Still, the economy must learn from its mistakes and rebuild itself. The only thing the government has done so far to destroy the economy is the stimulus package. Utter crap. The economy isn't going to heal if you let the same old asses try and rebuild it. We need new and innovative minds to rebuild America and that will only happen when the government let's the economy wallow in its own poor decisions. We as a people might have to suffer a bit, but let's look towards the future as some form of inspiration. At least we'll know what not to do and have people willing to do what needs to be done to prevent straying down this road again.

[winkio]

I think that the government should REGULATE the economy.  That is, keep it from taking huge upswings and downswings, and make sure that it is legitimate.  Stop the businesses from destroying themselves.  However, INTERFERENCE with the economy is a whole other topic. 

@Dio: letting the economy wallow means creating a huge depression.  Unemployment and crime would skyrocket.  DO YOU KNOW WHAT THAT WOULD DO TO PEOPLE, INCLUDING YOU?!?!?!  I mean, your family could suddenly be without income, or a substantially lower one.  Quality of life would fall apart.  I think it is in everyone's best interests to avoid that.  Instead of being passive and letting the world burn, we need to get some freaking guts, put out the fires, and rebuild! 
And the whole learning about the past.  The past five years have been pretty much a condensed version of the 20's.  All was well and good until it abruptly fell apart.  Do we learn?  No. 
I do agree the we need smarter and more able people in government though.

@WcW: Yes, the government makes stupid decisions.  It is only as good as the people we trust and elect to it.  Sadly today, we have a very narrow selection of candidates.

[Diokatsu]

I think that the government should REGULATE the economy.  That is, keep it from taking huge upswings and downswings, and make sure that it is legitimate.  Stop the businesses from destroying themselves.  However, INTERFERENCE with the economy is a whole other topic. 

@Dio: letting the economy wallow means creating a huge depression.  Unemployment and crime would skyrocket.  DO YOU KNOW WHAT THAT WOULD DO TO PEOPLE, INCLUDING YOU?!?!?!  I mean, your family could suddenly be without income, or a substantially lower one.  Quality of life would fall apart.  I think it is in everyone's best interests to avoid that.  Instead of being passive and letting the world burn, we need to get some freaking guts, put out the fires, and rebuild! 
And the whole learning about the past.  The past five years have been pretty much a condensed version of the 20's.  All was well and good until it abruptly fell apart.  Do we learn?  No. 
I do agree the we need smarter and more able people in government though.

*sigh* The world isn't some sort of fantasy story. We aren't going to burn and fall into chaos. That's not how the world works anymore. We won't fall into as big a depression as we will when this stimulus package fails. Besides, I do know what it would do to people like me. Don't think you know me well enough to determine how much I have to lose. and all the more if I were rich. It would cut the standard of living down and maybe, once we rebuild, we could figure out sort of nation we could have been. A nation that suffered greatly. Maybe we could use that to better the world. Nothing better than experience. And you're selfish, winkio. You don't matter at all, nor do I. Look at this damn thing in retrospect. I suffer, who cares. Money isn't my only joy and I'll far from let it cause me unhappiness. We on this earth should live for happiness, not pleasure, but happiness, satisfaction. If your only satisfaction lies in a high standard of living, I feel quite bad. Try and look at how little your suffering will effect the world. Look at all the third-world countries. Look at nations stricken with war and strife filling every inch of their government. At least we have unity, at least we have nationalism, and at least I have my friends. I'm pretty lucky right now. Life isn't fair, true. But if it were, you'd be giving up a hell of a lot more than you would be if we fell farther into depression. Count your blessings, you haven't got anything to complain about.

[Tazero]

Explanation:
I don't like the government because
1) they ruined my chuld hood
2) They're taking the country over
3) I hate them lolzz

[tSwitch]

Explanation:
I don't like the government because
1) they ruined my chuld hood
2) They're taking the country over
3) I hate them lolzz

1) wtf?
2) wtf?
3) that's not a reason

[winkio]

And you're selfish, winkio. You don't matter at all, nor do I. Look at this damn thing in retrospect. I suffer, who cares.

Dio, hate to break it to you, but there are more than just you and me that live on this planet.  We are talking about a large percentage of the population of American quickly dropping below poverty level.  The Great Depression was a valuable experience.  Is that what you are saying?  That we should have another one because we could use the experience?  People suffered, lost everything, barely scraped by, and died during that time.  Only an asshole would want to repeat that for "experience".  And not true about the stimulus: it actually works.  You how we solved the Great Depression?  ECONOMIC STIMIULUS (they didn't call it packages back then).  They created jobs, infused the economy with new capital, set up welfare programs, and brought us out of it.  Go look it up, it was FDR and the New Deal.  Stimulus is looking much more historically legitimate than just sitting back and letting everything die.  I don't understand why you don't get it!

[fugibo]

Last time I touched fire, I learned to avoid it.

But that won't help any kids I might have, will it?

[wolfi--]

Sorry for the delay, but since in a democratic nation, the people elect their leaders, therefore it is you who is chosing the people who will rule your country.

And I don't think they're destroying the economy because if they are, they'd be dead.

1) they ruined my chuld hood
2) They're taking the country over

1. Thats personal. And I don't see how thats possible.
2. Explained above. It is your representatives that are ruling you.


Anyways

enough seriousness for today
going to mix coke and coffee and see what happens~

[Diokatsu]

Sorry for the delay, but since in a democratic nation, the people elect their leaders, therefore it is you who is chosing the people who will rule your country.

That's Republic. Direct Democracy, and therefore ideal, is when the people have direct voting privileges on all laws; therefore, the people are the law.Our government is more based on the Roman Republic than the Greek Democracy.

[Tazero]

Screw democracy!
I say Free world!

[Diokatsu]

Screw democracy!
I say Free world!

Democracy is the highest plausible level of freedom within the bounds of organized government. If you don't want organized government, that's fine, you're free to fend for yourself. When the killing happens, I hope Lord of the Flies echos through your mind.

[Tazero]

I can defend myself Give me a knife some shadows and it's all good

[Diokatsu]

I can defend myself Give me a knife some shadows and it's all good

Lol. I hope you're joking, because get out there on the anarchic streets and you'd be done. No knife can defend from a mob.

[Tazero]

You'd be suprised

[winkio]

and you would be dead...

[wolfi--]

Oh sry, I don't live in America ;-; thats what they teach me in civics. Screwschool.

Screw democracy!
I say Free world!

Free world would mean that there would be no policies made, therefore war.
Public services would shut down, except private ones (which would become expensiver)



and yes, you'd be dead. Especially if you go around with a knife.


I know
like

i've tried it


with a lion..


;-;

[tSwitch]

You'd be suprised

MK, you're 13.
You don't know anything about the government (as I can see from this thread), and you have no idea what anarchy really means.  Please wait 3 or so years before posting another one of these topics.

[Tazero]

NEVER!
I know plenty but don't feel like being serious

[Blizzard]

Then GTFO of this thread.

[tSwitch]

NEVER!
I know plenty but don't feel like being serious

I wonder why I don't believe you.

Then GTFO of this thread.

edit: deleted the reply, which was ".......", please do not spam

[fugibo]

Dude. A knife isn't gonna save you from one doped up gangstah, let alone Eminem's Gustapo.

[Starrodkirby86]

How about we get off the knife and mob thing and go into the real subject about government...?

Like...do you think America's Government is corrupt or something? I'm not a big debater on Politics, so I'm minding my business here.

[Tazero]

Why government sucks:
Economy , Stimulus is gonna screw us over in the long run,
Poverty millions suffering for it,
Secrecy , why keep it?

[wolfi--]

Why government sucks:
Economy , Stimulus is gonna screw us over in the long run,
Poverty millions suffering for it,
Secrecy , why keep it?

Didn't actually get 1, but
2. You think if there was no Government, there would be no poverty? Or if there was free rule, everyone would be rich? True, true. Everyone could rob any bank with a gun. Anyone could get a gun.
3. They keep secrecy because if the public learn about the Govt's secret or defense plans or something, they will give it off to other countries for money (cuz everyone likes money). Therefore, war.

[Tazero]

Not that secrecy when the 'suits' at the top are covering something completely inevitable teell us so at the least we can be prepared mental breakdowns aren't priority #1

no im not saying that though about the poverty
Poverty will be there governnt no government but they neglect alot of the 50 states

[tSwitch]

Why government sucks:
Economy , Stimulus is gonna screw us over in the long run,

proof, show me it.
You've made a statement, now support it.

Poverty millions suffering for it,

This is a vague statement.  Millions in every country are poor, how does that make the American government different.

Secrecy , why keep it?

I can't believe you don't see the point for secrecy in a government.

Poverty will be there governnt no government but they neglect alot of the 50 states

I'm sorry what?
show me some evidence.

It sounds to me like you halfway paid attention to the debates over the last election, and got the subjects but not the arguments or the facts.  I suppose you think Obama is a socialist muslim too?

I maintain that you have no idea what you're talking about.

[Diokatsu]

Why government sucks:
Economy , Stimulus is gonna screw us over in the long run,
Poverty millions suffering for it,
Secrecy , why keep it?

I think you're being a bit too harsh, Namkcor, though I do agree that he cannot support any of his statements. Just don't bait him. I'll explain my opinion on some of these.

Economy: I do agree, the stimulus will cause a massive amount of damage to the economy. The government should get involved in some ways, like worker protection and rights.However, this isn't how it should work, even if they want the companies to stay around. The first job is to weed out corruption. I'll face this, too: companies are corrupt. It's bound to happen and it's easy to see how much was let slip by. We must prevent further corruption and waste by eliminating the source of it first. Then this stimulus plan seems a plausible solution. But, by letting the same people run the companies that drove it into the ground, we're asking for disaster.

America has a damn high standard of living and poverty in America is nothing like other countries. Get over yourself.

The government needs secrecy to operate. They have things that must be kept secret FOR YOUR PROTECTION.

[Punn]

From what I heard from my Economic/Gov't teacher, he stated that its not the governments fault, but its their fault for not regulating the economy itself. Someone from the Senate or whatever, said that the economy is fine by itself, so they left it out there in the cold where its now startin to kill itself.
I DO agree that the Stimulus won't really help much, because its the taxpayers (Like me) who is suffering and now I'm helpin pickin up the mess that the banks caused.
Although, the bank president (I forgot which, I think its Chase?) was hiding and spendin on crap by himself, and actually becomin selfish and corrupt, so this slowly (not seriously) contributed to the mess...

I think I'll hit him up on AIM and see what's his opinion...

[winkio]

Agreed Punn.  Your Civics teacher is spot on, in my opinion.

I think the past few months have been interesting.  It was as if all of a sudden, on a particular day in January, we all suddenly decided to start holding the government accountable for every single problem in the world, and demanded that they be fixed immediately.  This was in stark contrast to before that date where nobody held the government accountable for anything.  Look at the roots of the problems, they go way back to small actions that started them, and they have only been growing ever since.  There is no way to fix problems that have been going on for years with a wave of a magic wand.

What's more, I don't think people fully understand government.  People hate paying taxes, and many avoid doing it.  Yet it is these taxes finance their roads, schools, public facilities, and safety, among others.  Yet these ungrateful jerks withhold their share of the burden.  It's like freeloading off of society.  Also, people think that Congress does nothing, and that the president has all the power.  WRONG.  That is a dictatorship.

[Diokatsu]

Whether or not the government helps the economy is a decision that is based on your on view of what the economy needs. I suppose the "quick-fix method" would be to have our money fix it immediately. However, if you look at the alternative, it would gradually restore itself anyways. No economy in today's society can plausibly go completely tanked. In fact, even if all these businesses failed, there would be another business with the right practices to take over. Some skeptics do say that this a stretch, but if you think about how our economy is arranged, it's only a matter of time before it "fixes" itself. Our economy will not be the same as it was at it's peak for a long time, a very long time. This is the case in both ways of solving this problem. But, I think each way has it's own benefits. When the government doesn't help the economy, the economy will renew itself. The corruption will be gone, for the time, and new minds will enter. Innovation will be key in the new market as businesses rush to out do each other. This is a way to stimulate the economy as well. Soon, bigger and more powerful businesses will rise up and America will see itself in a refreshed state. The downside is quite obvious and painful though. Suffering under a horrific economy will see an increase in crime and poverty. Luxuries will go through the roof and anything worth anything will be owned by the aristocracy that would soon be arising. Maybe another Gilded Age, even. The government helping the economy will see the most immediate benefits. The economy will be "restored" and business will flourish. We will have a stable economy sooner than ever. Only problem is, the American people will pay for it out of their own pockets, and, unlike public works, the benefits will largely not affect them in their daily lives. And, this keeps the old business practices the same, which encourages such things as "developing your brand". I mean, either way, we have a possible negative side-effect. It's all how you look at the government as well. Don't think that, because I'd rather not have government involvement in the economy, I'd just as soon see it go away. I appreciate what the government does with it's power, especially when geared towards equal rights and social justice. Taxes are an essential part of the government, to fund projects that benefit myself and others in their daily lives. i have no problem with government regulations in some areas, like worker's rights. This isn't a matter of government power in general, just over the economy at this point.

[fugibo]

Why are we arguing about Communism v Socialism v Feudalism v Fascism v Tribalism in this thread? The Government sucks at economy because it regulates like idiots when it does regulate, not because it doesn't regulate. Some would argue that laissez-faire is the better policy, and some would definitely argue against that. However, I think it may be better in America's case because of our longstanding opinion not to intervene and to keep the Gov. separate (from state, from the individual, etc.), but that's just my opinion. But when they actually go for regulation, they usually screw it up epically, which is why they suck.

That, and Congress is so influenced by the (corrupt) media that it isn't even funny.

[tSwitch]

as far as the stimulus goes:
The economy can't exist without money, right?
The idea behind it is if they give tax breaks to companies, the companies can then afford to pay wages, and won't have to cut jobs, meaning people will have money to spend, which goes back into the economy.

Dio, your idea sounds good on paper, like all ideas, however it's very radical and it's a shot in the dark if anything else.  I'd rather not have to experience the economy tanking just to see it get better, when there are possibilities of other solutions.

[Diokatsu]

Yeah, the idea does sound "good",but it's really just an ideal. However, I just can't see the stimulus being effective as it hopes to be. I suppose no plan is perfect.

[Tazero]

How will stimulus help? yes the money but look at us we need money but if we get it we'll be in debt with china,japan act. wherever we get the debt payed off we'll be in a communist country.... Your right i don't have facts to prove it but look at the title
THOUGHTS

[winkio]

Meta, you have no idea what you are talking about.  Debt is a common feature of governments.  The thing is, you can't pay it off unless you have money.  And that is one thing that we sure as hell don't have right now.  Now, moving on to stimulus:

This is how it works:  The government gives money to failing businesses, which, in turn, stop laying people off, saving jobs and possibly creating more, which gives more to the consumers to drive the economy.  That is oversimplified, but if you want to learn more, you should really look it up.  I suggest you do if you want to be taken seriously here.

[fugibo]

The problem is that the businesses are corrupt

I think that we should add a limit to how high the the sales cost to production cost ratio can get to a much lower level, that way midclass consumers will have more money to spend. That could compensate for the loss on markups, keep everything much the same except for the fact that more wealth is flowing into the middle class and less into the void that is the upper class.

Please show me the hole in my logic

[winkio]

Totally agree with you.

[Blizzard]

So do I.

Governments take loans to pay stuff (obviously). The good side is that they have money to invest it into research and public services. The bad side is that they don't do that but something else. Not only businesses are corrupt, major part of the government are as well. I've seen many honest people trying to get into politics and they usually get fired very soon. Why? For being honest. IMO there is no mediocre or more successful politician who is honest. I pretty much believe that they all first watch out for their own interest then the nation's. There is nothing we can change about that except for some kind of revolution. Ironically the revolution would just be an opportunity for another group of people to rule the country. Even if they are honest and have actual ideals, it's just a matter of time until somebody corrupt gets into the cycle and the same old story begins anew. It's funny how it only takes one "corrupt person" to destroy an "ideal paradise".

[winkio]

One of my friends once told me "You can rate how good a government is by how little damage one person can do to the system.  For the US gov, it is supposed to be fairly little, because the president can be checked by the cabinet and congress.  But recently, party leaders have just gotten ridiculous amounts of power as they are heads of overzealous parties, and thus can do MUCH more damage.

[fugibo]

Well, if we just let it all burn, it'll have to go up eventually...

[Tazero]

I refuse to let Monarchists completely stomp Anarchist do to the majority
I have my own plans but either way they won't be heard might as well just listen out 

[fugibo]

I'm sorry, but
a) I'm pretty sure there are only a handful of monarchists left on the face of the planet.
b) Anarchy = Bad. ALWAYS. NO EXCEPTIONS.

Man, I wanna play CivIV.... stupid M$, not making Dx portable...

[Diokatsu]

I'm sorry, but
a) I'm pretty sure there are only a handful of monarchists left on the face of the planet.
b) Anarchy = Bad. ALWAYS. NO EXCEPTIONS.

LOL I agree. Very few people still hold on to the monarchy ideal. It's just a worn out system.

Anarchy is "bad" in the sense that it can't work. Hell, it's not even a real form of government. Unless you want to tell me that the lack of structure is in itself a structure.

[Tazero]

Should i? I will It's lack of stucture is our Structure

[fugibo]

You remind me of agnostics, but I have no reason why.

[Diokatsu]

You remind me of agnostics, but I have no reason why.

Lol, he shouldn't. I'm agnostic.

[Tazero]

whats that???
 

[Diokatsu]

whats that???
 

Someone who believe that the existence of God/god is unknowable. It's basically admitting that we can't figure it out. It's for the quitters.

[Tazero]

Why don't mormen understand that god isn't coming back any time soon? 

[shdwlink1993]

(Wow... I knew Mormons were big, but I didn't know that we were a form of government! xD) That's because Mormons understand that God is coming back sometime soon. lol

To return to the actual point of the topic with as much subtlety as a train wreck, I think that our current system is OK. I've always been completely oblivious to the world around me and have nothing to compare our system to, but I think it's OK. Could stand some improvement, of course, but I think that it's OK.

[Tazero]

OK

[fugibo]

To Mormons Comment: Pretty much every real religion in the world believes that God will return. Hinduism, Buddhism, Christianity, Judaism, Islam, etc. They all have their God, and he's supposed to come back.

To Mods: Please, lock this topic. There's not point anymore.