Is Humanity Evolving?

[Vell]

Autistic Savants. They can't function in our society at all. Yet we've all seen Rain Man. We've SEEN how quick and how immediate they can process data. We know the brilliancies they are capable of. Ok then, but they aren't 'intelligent'. They can't communicate, they can't function at all, LITERALLY, outside of their small comfort zone.

Aspies. Aspergers Syndrome. Like Autism, only milder. Usually, but not always, smarter than the average person. Not too much though, just like High School would be like 'if i handed in my homework and was all BLAH for everythign else, I'd pass with a 95... in everything.' that's sort of... me. Having never studied, EVER, I still do the best in nearly everything i do. I'm gettin pretty kick-ass in Brawl. I am Aspie.

I've heard tell from a trustworthy source that there IS one Savant-level person in the world who can TELL you how he thinks. he's like the perfect cross between an Aspie and a Savant. He's sociable, he can interact, yet he still thinks how we aspies and autistics do. he is AS SMART as savant. he can do math that would take anyone else probably days in his head. This, I believe, is where humanity is heading. All evolutions go in stages, yet humanity has never had a chance to document it as it happened. we have a chance, Now.

Sure, for now our intelligence comes at a social-loss. but a lot of the standard social rules make no logical sense. I can't tell you how many times I've heard the argument 'Yeah I agree, it shouldn't matter how you look, but sometimes it's just the logical choice. Like when you're going for a job interview.' when my entire statement was that it SHOULDNT matter what you look like. My hair is clean. My clothes are clean. I have sensory issues. I CANT STAND JEANS. or dress pants. I like sweats. theyre comfortable.

It seems to me like a lot of our mentality is wasted on dealing with the opinions of others, or with looking right. or Acting right. At my job I'm supposed to be like this, and do this. at home I'm supposed to be like this. Oh but if we go here, you can't wear that, and if you don't do this and this and this, and say that to this guy, and shake that person's hand, and if you don't follow some strange cultural rule you're spposed to instinctually know but that you don't because its total BS you'll totally embarass yourself. and you don't want that, do you?

[RoseSkye]

Since you sprinkled random in your thread and that's the way I like my threads.

I'll insert my two cents. Humanity as a whole wouldn't evolve since this isn't much of a phenom but a luck of a draw.
It's like hitting all 777's in life. At the same time it would be like hitting the whammy after gambling the same amount of money.

Only a select few are born with this.. and be it as it may there is a thing as "too wise". When are in a world full of constant moving and you stop to see it spinning all you see is faces and blurs. It's a dangerous thing to be honest. This is my take on it.. if you think too hard on life and how short and pointless it is or if you separate yourself from others too much you can frighten yourself.

Now as far as evolution is concerned unless we come up with an immortality potion its pointless even assuming that humans are evolving any further. To me that's like saying snakes are shedding skin more frequently. Sure it's wondrous to see the snake growing.. but it is pointless in the long run.

I digress... my point was before I started rambling. If humanity was evolving it would have nothing to do with a luck draw birth. Evolution is a inherited change in future generations.. You can't have a horse give birth to a giraffe one time and then say it evolved even though it only gave birth to one giraffe. Sure it may be in the gene pool from now on but it would be a fluke birth.. as opposed to the millions of years it would take to evolve to say.. an amphibian.. or a mermaid .. or something like that.

[Fallen Angel X]

Not necessarily millions of years for humans. With technology nowadays, human lifespans are lengthening! Is that not evolving, even a little bit? But I agree with Rose that evolution is progressive. And Rose, humans have evolved from the past, to say that we are at our peak and can no longer evolve is a tad conceited. If you want an example of how we've evolved through time, there is many! Our canine teeth, for example, they used to be so much larger and sharper. Perhaps we won't see such a drastic change in the human anatomy in our lifetime, perhaps we will. Who knows? Nature is very unpredictable.

As far as the savant goes, Ulta could be right. It could be the start of a new evolution. Or it may not. There's no actual evidence I have to say something about that.

Now to the conforming point of Ulta's. Now, my grade 10 religion book (Which is filled with a lot of bs), says that humans are social creatures and that we desire to make connections with others. It also says that we cannot live life solitary because we would go insane.  So yes, we do what we don't want to, to fit in. Atleast that's what my textbook implies.

[Blizzard]

I think I need to mention here that humans might be interfering with their own evolution. During the evolution, most species got more and more fingers on their forelegs or hands. Humans have 5. 6 is considered a genetic failure. Can you see my point? What if 6 fingers are one step closer to our next form as evolving species? I remember in a Sci-Fi movie something like 300 years in the future (I'm very sure it was 5th Element, but I'm not 100% sure) there was a sort of piano concert. The protagonist was kind of apologetic when he realized the piano player had 6 fingers. Another character in the movie replied to him how that would be the only way the masterpiece could be actually played; by having 12 fingers.

[shdwlink1993]

Throwing in my two cents:

Ulta, you do have a point with that. Maybe this is the next step. Maybe we're progressing. It's possible. Doctors are diagnosing people with Autism more and more frequently. Heck, I'm autistic. So are most people I know, to some extent. I'm not the most social person in the world, but I know quite a few people.

It also says that we cannot live life solitary because we would go insane.

I... actually don't agree with your religion textbook. At all. I've been in my room all spring break. Sitting on my computer doing whatever I feel like for a week. My mom hardly comes in. Nobody else does at all. I'm hardly on the verge of developing insanity. Maybe it's more like a month, but I'll see about that come Summer Vacation, perhaps?

@Blizz: It wasn't The 5th Element (That had an alien diva). I think you mean GATTACA?

[Fallen Angel X]

Well, in a sense, evolution is a lot like adapting. Humans don't need their fang teeth as much anymore so we lost them. I wouldn't say we've "interfered" with our evolution but rather, we redirected it. Technology (Yes I know, I sound like a broken record player and my points are redundant) is lengthening our lifespan and reducing our needs for other things. Who knows what that can cause? Our bodies will probably need less energy since technology is reducing the amount of physical work needed to survive. But then, technology could probably replace what we've lost. We'll probably become even more dependant on technology, which is probably a bad thing. Technology isn't stopping or hindering evolution but altering, good or bad way is up to debate but w/e.

Blizzard, I see what you're saying but I think that the reason 6 fingers is considered a genetic failure is because it's not consistent enough. It's a genetic mutation that isn't common enough to be considered the next evolution. Perhaps in time, when every child has 6 fingers, we can claim that we've evolved. And no extra limb/body part that occurs via radiation or any unsafe method doesn't count. Because face it, if a man fell in a vat of radioactive waste and became 50 ft. tall, reproducing such a feat for everyone else is highly unlikely. But a child with 6 fingers, through genetics not radiation, can definetly be seen as evolution! It's just that many people have a tendency to say that if something is different, it's a failure.

It also says that we cannot live life solitary because we would go insane.

I... actually don't agree with your religion textbook. At all. I've been in my room all spring break. Sitting on my computer doing whatever I feel like for a week. My mom hardly comes in. Nobody else does at all. I'm hardly on the verge of developing insanity. Maybe it's more like a month, but I'll see about that come Summer Vacation, perhaps?

I think my religion textbook refers to living all of your life alone and solitary. Not just a week. Personally, I think my religion speaks a lot of bs but I'm too lazy to find any decent arguements. But I would have to admit, living alone for your entire life would make you maybe a tad eccentric.

[Blizzard]

shdw, being social prevents from going insane because of the change. You can also live in solitude and not be insane. Sure, people will be always like "OMG, HE'S AN INSANE OLD MAN", but that's wrong by definition. It would only make you unsocial, not insane.

And nah, I don't think I watched GATTACA so I think it can't be that.

@FAX: If we keep "repairing" the 6 fingers, it will never be common enough. :/ Also, humanity might not evolve as a whole. There are many of us so it's probable that we will evolve differently because of the high genetic variety and various combination among all humans.
I'm not saying that 6 fingers is evolution, all I'm saying is that we could be hindering evolution. The 6 fingers was just an example.

Radioactive waste would kill a human being. You can't get super powers from radioactivity. Except if you consider sterility or the destruction (NOT ALTERATION!) of genetic material to be evolution. o.o;

Being eccentric is a divergence of the social aspect. That's pretty much what you just said. And that's true. Just because you're eccentric doesn't mean that you're insane. You are just focusing your thoughts on something that isn't the other person. Maybe a bit too much, but that is the consequence of being alone.

[Fallen Angel X]

Oh I was just exaggerating a point. But there are instances where genetics were altered due to radiation, which is unsafe. If I recall, areas that have been irradiated (Japan and Russia, for example) experienced more genetic mutation. So my point was that if it was caused by an unstable or unsafe element, we can't classify it as evolution. Of course, my memory is failing me these days xD

[RoseSkye]

Not necessarily millions of years for humans. With technology nowadays, human lifespans are lengthening! Is that not evolving, even a little bit? But I agree with Rose that evolution is progressive. And Rose, humans have evolved from the past, to say that we are at our peak and can no longer evolve is a tad conceited. If you want an example of how we've evolved through time, there is many! Our canine teeth, for example, they used to be so much larger and sharper. Perhaps we won't see such a drastic change in the human anatomy in our lifetime, perhaps we will. Who knows? Nature is very unpredictable.

As far as the savant goes, Ulta could be right. It could be the start of a new evolution. Or it may not. There's no actual evidence I have to say something about that.

Now to the conforming point of Ulta's. Now, my grade 10 religion book (Which is filled with a lot of bs), says that humans are social creatures and that we desire to make connections with others. It also says that we cannot live life solitary because we would go insane.  So yes, we do what we don't want to, to fit in. Atleast that's what my textbook implies.

No.. I didn't say that. I said it was pointless because we're going to die anyway regardless.

[Fallen Angel X]

Not necessarily millions of years for humans. With technology nowadays, human lifespans are lengthening! Is that not evolving, even a little bit? But I agree with Rose that evolution is progressive. And Rose, humans have evolved from the past, to say that we are at our peak and can no longer evolve is a tad conceited. If you want an example of how we've evolved through time, there is many! Our canine teeth, for example, they used to be so much larger and sharper. Perhaps we won't see such a drastic change in the human anatomy in our lifetime, perhaps we will. Who knows? Nature is very unpredictable.

As far as the savant goes, Ulta could be right. It could be the start of a new evolution. Or it may not. There's no actual evidence I have to say something about that.

Now to the conforming point of Ulta's. Now, my grade 10 religion book (Which is filled with a lot of bs), says that humans are social creatures and that we desire to make connections with others. It also says that we cannot live life solitary because we would go insane.  So yes, we do what we don't want to, to fit in. Atleast that's what my textbook implies.

No.. I didn't say that. I said it was pointless because we're going to die anyway regardless.

Sorry, I misinterpreted you then.

Well, if you want to put things in that perspective, what's the point of anything then? Basically, everything that we strive for doesn't matter unless it develops an immortality potion or whatnot. But even then, what does that accomplish? But I digress. Well, if you find it to be pointless, that's your opinion. But I disagree. Atleast for the sake of arguement

[RoseSkye]

Not necessarily millions of years for humans. With technology nowadays, human lifespans are lengthening! Is that not evolving, even a little bit? But I agree with Rose that evolution is progressive. And Rose, humans have evolved from the past, to say that we are at our peak and can no longer evolve is a tad conceited. If you want an example of how we've evolved through time, there is many! Our canine teeth, for example, they used to be so much larger and sharper. Perhaps we won't see such a drastic change in the human anatomy in our lifetime, perhaps we will. Who knows? Nature is very unpredictable.

As far as the savant goes, Ulta could be right. It could be the start of a new evolution. Or it may not. There's no actual evidence I have to say something about that.

Now to the conforming point of Ulta's. Now, my grade 10 religion book (Which is filled with a lot of bs), says that humans are social creatures and that we desire to make connections with others. It also says that we cannot live life solitary because we would go insane.  So yes, we do what we don't want to, to fit in. Atleast that's what my textbook implies.

No.. I didn't say that. I said it was pointless because we're going to die anyway regardless.

Sorry, I misinterpreted you then.

Well, if you want to put things in that perspective, what's the point of anything then? Basically, everything that we strive for doesn't matter unless it develops an immortality potion or whatnot. But even then, what does that accomplish? But I digress. Well, if you find it to be pointless, that's your opinion. But I disagree. Atleast for the sake of arguement

Nothing. Life is a joke just ask the comedian.

[Fallen Angel X]

Nothing. Life is a joke just ask the comedian.

I would but the comedian is dead. The poor comedian But we're straying off topic! But then, I don't have anything productive to say right now xD

[RoseSkye]

My point.. becoming smarter isn't evolution.

Evolution is something like..growing wings.. or something that every human being has eventually gained the ability to do.

As in human evolved from primates to humans. . or humans evolved into hairless apes.

[Fallen Angel X]

I doubt evolution is just physical.

Evolution
1. any process of formation or growth; development: the evolution of a language; the evolution of the airplane. 
2. a product of such development; something evolved: The exploration of space is the evolution of decades of research. 
3. Biology. change in the gene pool of a population from generation to generation by such processes as mutation, natural selection, and genetic drift.
4. a process of gradual, peaceful, progressive change or development, as in social or economic structure or institutions.
5. a motion incomplete in itself, but combining with coordinated motions to produce a single action, as in a machine.
6. a pattern formed by or as if by a series of movements: the evolutions of a figure skater. 
7. an evolving or giving off of gas, heat, etc.
8. Mathematics. the extraction of a root from a quantity. Compare involution (def. .
9. a movement or one of a series of movements of troops, ships, etc., as for disposition in order of battle or in line on parade.
10. any similar movement, esp. in close order drill.

Genetics also affect the brain, the source of our knowledge. If the brain evolves, so do we. After all it's a part of us. But in the end, humans evolve, which is what I'm assuming the debate is about. And no one seems to say otherwise.

[RoseSkye]

I doubt evolution is just physical.

Evolution
1. any process of formation or growth; development: the evolution of a language; the evolution of the airplane. 
2. a product of such development; something evolved: The exploration of space is the evolution of decades of research. 
3. Biology. change in the gene pool of a population from generation to generation by such processes as mutation, natural selection, and genetic drift.
4. a process of gradual, peaceful, progressive change or development, as in social or economic structure or institutions.
5. a motion incomplete in itself, but combining with coordinated motions to produce a single action, as in a machine.
6. a pattern formed by or as if by a series of movements: the evolutions of a figure skater. 
7. an evolving or giving off of gas, heat, etc.
8. Mathematics. the extraction of a root from a quantity. Compare involution (def. .
9. a movement or one of a series of movements of troops, ships, etc., as for disposition in order of battle or in line on parade.
10. any similar movement, esp. in close order drill.

Genetics also affect the brain, the source of our knowledge. If the brain evolves, so do we. After all it's a part of us. But in the end, humans evolve, which is what I'm assuming the debate is about. And no one seems to say otherwise.

-.- but we aren't BORN with the knowledge we learn it.

I see if a baby comes out of the womb and goes "Hey, nice day today huh? It was dark in there.. thanks. Please dont hit me I'm alive" but it doesn't. It comes out of the womb confused because some dude smacked its ass.

[Fallen Angel X]

Intelligence isn't just about how MUCH we know but rather, our ability to learn.

Knowledge
1. capacity for learning, reasoning, understanding, and similar forms of mental activity; aptitude in grasping truths, relationships, facts, meanings, etc.
2. manifestation of a high mental capacity: He writes with intelligence and wit. 
3. the faculty of understanding.
4. knowledge of an event, circumstance, etc., received or imparted; news; information.
5. the gathering or distribution of information, esp. secret information.
6. Government. a. information about an enemy or a potential enemy.
b. the evaluated conclusions drawn from such information.
c. an organization or agency engaged in gathering such information: military intelligence; naval intelligence. 

7. interchange of information: They have been maintaining intelligence with foreign agents for years. 
8. Christian Science. a fundamental attribute of God, or infinite Mind.
9. (often initial capital letter) an intelligent being or spirit, esp. an incorporeal one, as an angel.

[Vell]

I think I need to mention here that humans might be interfering with their own evolution. During the evolution, most species got more and more fingers on their forelegs or hands. Humans have 5. 6 is considered a genetic failure. Can you see my point? What if 6 fingers are one step closer to our next form as evolving species? I remember in a Sci-Fi movie something like 300 years in the future (I'm very sure it was 5th Element, but I'm not 100% sure) there was a sort of piano concert. The protagonist was kind of apologetic when he realized the piano player had 6 fingers. Another character in the movie replied to him how that would be the only way the masterpiece could be actually played; by having 12 fingers.

GATTACA.


umm... Blizz, about the six fingered thing... polyploidy is actually dominant, genetically, over the standard 5 fingers.

[RoseSkye]

Intelligence isn't just about how MUCH we know but rather, our ability to learn.

Knowledge
1. capacity for learning, reasoning, understanding, and similar forms of mental activity; aptitude in grasping truths, relationships, facts, meanings, etc.
2. manifestation of a high mental capacity: He writes with intelligence and wit. 
3. the faculty of understanding.
4. knowledge of an event, circumstance, etc., received or imparted; news; information.
5. the gathering or distribution of information, esp. secret information.
6. Government. a. information about an enemy or a potential enemy.
b. the evaluated conclusions drawn from such information.
c. an organization or agency engaged in gathering such information: military intelligence; naval intelligence. 

7. interchange of information: They have been maintaining intelligence with foreign agents for years. 
8. Christian Science. a fundamental attribute of God, or infinite Mind.
9. (often initial capital letter) an intelligent being or spirit, esp. an incorporeal one, as an angel.

.. Okay you're not getting me.
We're writing down shit in text books. Things that are not learned from personal experiences rather than generic happenstances in a set point in time..

Now if you spank a dog and point towards a turd that he made eventually he'll go "hmm..perhaps I'm getting hit because of that."  Now that wont stop his puppy from taking a crap whereever he feels like.

as opposed to a dog coming out of the womb and being raised or immediately knowing where or where not to take craps.

Same thing with human kids. They take craps wherever they want but the diaper keeps it from falling. We have to teach kids not to do that.. now the difference between us and dogs is that dogs don't teach their puppies not to do that.
-----------------------------------------------------
Now lets go to example b.

A lion is born knowing that he must eat to survive. A lion is born to hone the skill to hunt by "play fighting" with its brother/sister cubs.

If not.. the lion would eat leaves and graze with gazelles.

A gazelle instinctively knows that if they see a lion or a cheetah, run like hell.

A human is born knowing that they must eat/drink to survive. Don't believe me? Put a baby's mouth to a bottle or a womans nipple and I promise you if that baby is hungry it'll drink. However, a baby can't discern what's edible and what's not.


Anyone can -learn- anything if you repeat it enough. However evolution would be an inherited ability to know instinctively. Like walking, crawling, or drinking milk from the mother.

---------------------------------------------------------

Though I must admit the OP is closer to evolution than you.. however since it's not inherited it's not a good example.

[Vell]

Autism and Asperger's Syndrome IS genetic. I, myself, got it from my father. who got it from HIS father. I also know my mom's family has a history of Autism somewhere or another. It doesn't ALWAYS pass down from a parent. there have been cases of people with autism whove had no family history of it.

and an evolution has to start somewhere. Evolution takes time. Did you kno that Albert Einstein was aspie/autistic? I also heard from a trusted source that the person at columbine was most likely Aspie or Autistic. It was never confirmed or anything, but the behavioral patterns fit. Scientists also think Beethoven was as well. hell. Satoshi Tajiri, creator of pokemon, is aspie/autistic.

You're more likely to be born Autistic than you are to be in a car crash.

and Rose. Intelligence is the Capacity to learn. I'm not seeing what your side is here. Duh, we have to learn stuff, but if the human mind becomes more adapt and swift at processing data, then that, in and of itself, is an evolution. Autism is becoming more and more frequent, and the spectrum is wide. I myself have had several different diagnosis throughout my lifetime.

[Blizzard]

Capacity to learn IS a part of evolution, knowledge and experience isn't (as stated before).
You all remember Tarzan, don't you? That scenario isn't so realistic (apes raising a human baby), but the end result is. A human being that survived in the wild for its entire life would pretty much be like Tarzan is. Fact is that the human race hasn't become any "smarter" in the last 30000 years. We just know more.

[Vell]

I'm not sure if you get the point of the debate. I intended this debate to be 'is humanity evolving? Are we, as a race, in the process of becoming more intelligent?' Autism IS becoming more genetically frequent.

[Blizzard]

I just wanted to underline that humans didn't get smarter in the last 30000 years. As we all know evolution can be a process of millions of years. It's very unlikely that humans will suddenly evolve extremely within just a few centuries or even millenia.

[Fallen Angel X]

Rose, you're not quite getting what I'm saying. You're right, I said it's not about what we know! I already said it's our capacity to learn! And so, I'll use one of your examples to prove my point.

Now if you spank a dog and point towards a turd that he made eventually he'll go "hmm..perhaps I'm getting hit because of that."  Now that wont stop his puppy from taking a crap whereever he feels like.

as opposed to a dog coming out of the womb and being raised or immediately knowing where or where not to take craps.

Same thing with human kids. They take craps wherever they want but the diaper keeps it from falling. We have to teach kids not to do that.. now the difference between us and dogs is that dogs don't teach their puppies not to do that.

How many times would you have to spank that dog? Several times no doubt. It'll take the dog's mind a bit of time before it can grasp the concept. Now, if the dog's mind/brain evolved, it would take less time for it to grasp the concept. You're correct, we're not born with the knowledge but we sure as hell can learn faster. And if we take that capacity to learn as the basis of being smart, then it definetly counts as evolving. Evolution doesn't have to be physically visible.

Now to answer Ulta's question, I think that humans are evolving for sure. I don't think it's possible to stop evolving, unless you press B continuously.

[RoseSkye]

Rose, you're not quite getting what I'm saying. You're right, I said it's not about what we know! I already said it's our capacity to learn! And so, I'll use one of your examples to prove my point.

Now if you spank a dog and point towards a turd that he made eventually he'll go "hmm..perhaps I'm getting hit because of that."  Now that wont stop his puppy from taking a crap whereever he feels like.

as opposed to a dog coming out of the womb and being raised or immediately knowing where or where not to take craps.

Same thing with human kids. They take craps wherever they want but the diaper keeps it from falling. We have to teach kids not to do that.. now the difference between us and dogs is that dogs don't teach their puppies not to do that.

How many times would you have to spank that dog? Several times no doubt. It'll take the dog's mind a bit of time before it can grasp the concept. Now, if the dog's mind/brain evolved, it would take less time for it to grasp the concept. You're correct, we're not born with the knowledge but we sure as hell can learn faster. And if we take that capacity to learn as the basis of being smart, then it definetly counts as evolving. Evolution doesn't have to be physically visible.

Now to answer Ulta's question, I think that humans are evolving for sure. I don't think it's possible to stop evolving, unless you press B continuously.

I got that b joke.. I feel  like a nerd.

Also that capacity thing.. hit an elephant once and he'll know for the rest of his/her life. Hit a human once and he'll/she'll eventually forget.

[Vell]

Well yeah. that's not capacity, just development in different areas. I don't care if u punch me randomly, but an elephant doenst forget Anything. it's what elephants do. they developed thatw ay for a reason. but humans dont need infallible memory(though itd help) so we don't have it. it has nothing to do with an elephant having more mental capacity than we do. are you even thinking in this debate?

[shdwlink1993]

I don't think it's possible to stop evolving, unless you press B continuously.

I got that b joke.. I feel  like a nerd.

Don't worry, Rose. So did I.

[RoseSkye]

Well yeah. that's not capacity, just development in different areas. I don't care if u punch me randomly, but an elephant doenst forget Anything. it's what elephants do. they developed thatw ay for a reason. but humans dont need infallible memory(though itd help) so we don't have it. it has nothing to do with an elephant having more mental capacity than we do. are you even thinking in this debate?

Do I need to? I stated my opinion in my first post. I mean I could debate till the sun comes out but it wouldn't mean diddly.

[Fallen Angel X]

So why even bother posting in this debate? If you support your opinion, you'd try to make it get across to the other people, you haven't yet. And who knows, debating can change a person's perspective on some things. That's worth more than diddly.

I don't think it's possible to stop evolving, unless you press B continuously.

I got that b joke.. I feel  like a nerd.

Are you implying I'm a nerd? D:

...

[Punn]

Yes... we're evolving.. but in reverse.

[Blizzard]

That's called devolving.

[Fallen Angel X]

Wrong Blizz.

In common parlance, "devolution", or backward evolution is the notion a species may evolve into more "primitive" forms. From a scientific perspective, devolution does not exist.[1][2] Lay people may see evolution as "progress", reflecting the 19th century ideas of Lamarckism and orthogenesis, but modern genetically-based biological evolution theory asserts that evolution occurs by such mechanisms as natural selection, genetic drift, and mutation, and is therefore not directional, forward or backward in time; hence "devolution" is not a valid concept.

Sorry, I just like searching stuff up. xD

[Blizzard]

My point is still valid. What Punn meant is called devolution. It's just that it's not a valid concept. xD

[Vell]

I HAD to get that B joke. I play the most recent games...

[Blizzard]

I think the people that didn't get it are a minority here. ._.; Obviously I know what's it refering to as well.

[Vell]

yay Nerdz.

[Blizzard]

Not necessarily. I mean who DIDN'T play it.

Anyway, back on topic. We all know that evolution is a process. Humanity is evolving probably all the time. There's just the question if we might be interfering.

[Vell]

we probably are. I mean, as a standard I say 'I can do without, but if i don't HAVE to, I won't' which basically means I try to adapt to any situation as it happens. needful to say, I have yet to find a balance between quick thinking and far-planning.

[Pokol DaErran]

I agree with Punn on this one;  Humans are DEvolving.

Think about it.  Over the ages, humanity has not gotten MORE intelligent, it has gotten LESS intelligent.  You didn't see cavemen carrying out mass shootings then commiting suicide, now did you?

No, of course you didn't!  (Then again, nobody living today really saw cavemen do anything.)

But NOW, you can barely walk five feet without seeing another mass shooting on the news.

Yes, humanity is definitely evolving.  Evolving into idiots.

[Blizzard]

Intelligence is constant, but the world population is rapidly growing.

[tSwitch]

Humans are evolving, just not biologically.

Use this comparison to understand my point:
A Bacteria evolves to fend off penicillin, in order to survive
A Human develops medicine to fight off a disease in order to survive

We're not allowing nature to evolve our species for us, we're developing technology to do it instead.

[Pokol DaErran]

Intelligence is constant, but the world population is rapidly growing.

ROFL.

By the way, Foxy had a good point there.  Of course, the evolution of technology could be our downfall... XD
For example:

THAT is an SUV.  Humans ride around in them because they are slowly losing their ability to walk.

(Now I have to come back and edit this post after Transsexual Week ends!  XD)

[Blizzard]

I agree with NAMK. It looks like humans have taken things into their own hands. But with that we've also sped up the evolution of things around us. As already said, today there are bacteria that are immune to penicilin. We've made them evolve as well. But we didn't evolve naturally while they did...

[tSwitch]

I agree with NAMK. It looks like humans have taken things into their own hands. But with that we've also sped up the evolution of things around us. As already said, today there are bacteria that are immune to penicilin. We've made them evolve as well. But we didn't evolve naturally while they did...

The Human body doesn't need to evolve any further.  We can live in just about any condition as we are, due to the technology we have developed.  Human evolution is now technological, and mental, no longer our physical forms (mostly).

[Vell]

which is why i believe humanity's mental capability is evolving in relation to the necessary future neccessity required to further evolve our technology's strength and ability to help us further adapt to situations.

[Blizzard]

Actually a friend of mine believes something completely different. She thinks that people will turn back to nature and stop being so selfish. I personally think that this isn't going to happen. I wonder if that is a consequence of social evolution or maybe something else related to this.

[tSwitch]

Actually a friend of mine believes something completely different. She thinks that people will turn back to nature and stop being so selfish.

I'm sorry, I laughed really hard

The thing that separates man from the other animals of the world is our ability to create and utilize tools.  As well as the fact that where other species adapt to their surroundings, we adapt our surroundings to us.  Most animals live as nature allows them, we use nature to live as we wish.  This is one of the things that makes us human.

[Blizzard]

I understand why you laughed. I couldn't laugh, but I'm totally like "yeah right". Sure, I tell her that it's possible. But that's it. I don't believe it will happen.

[Seox]

Autistic Savants. They can't function in our society at all. Yet we've all seen Rain Man. We've SEEN how quick and how immediate they can process data. We know the brilliancies they are capable of. Ok then, but they aren't 'intelligent'. They can't communicate, they can't function at all, LITERALLY, outside of their small comfort zone.

Aspies. Aspergers Syndrome. Like Autism, only milder. Usually, but not always, smarter than the average person. Not too much though, just like High School would be like 'if i handed in my homework and was all BLAH for everythign else, I'd pass with a 95... in everything.' that's sort of... me. Having never studied, EVER, I still do the best in nearly everything i do. I'm gettin pretty kick-ass in Brawl. I am Aspie.

I've heard tell from a trustworthy source that there IS one Savant-level person in the world who can TELL you how he thinks. he's like the perfect cross between an Aspie and a Savant. He's sociable, he can interact, yet he still thinks how we aspies and autistics do. he is AS SMART as savant. he can do math that would take anyone else probably days in his head. This, I believe, is where humanity is heading. All evolutions go in stages, yet humanity has never had a chance to document it as it happened. we have a chance, Now.

Sure, for now our intelligence comes at a social-loss. but a lot of the standard social rules make no logical sense. I can't tell you how many times I've heard the argument 'Yeah I agree, it shouldn't matter how you look, but sometimes it's just the logical choice. Like when you're going for a job interview.' when my entire statement was that it SHOULDNT matter what you look like. My hair is clean. My clothes are clean. I have sensory issues. I CANT STAND JEANS. or dress pants. I like sweats. theyre comfortable.

It seems to me like a lot of our mentality is wasted on dealing with the opinions of others, or with looking right. or Acting right. At my job I'm supposed to be like this, and do this. at home I'm supposed to be like this. Oh but if we go here, you can't wear that, and if you don't do this and this and this, and say that to this guy, and shake that person's hand, and if you don't follow some strange cultural rule you're spposed to instinctually know but that you don't because its total BS you'll totally embarass yourself. and you don't want that, do you?

I've been diagnosed with asperger's as of VERY recently. I'm 16, by the way. I RARELY study, and just got AB honor roll all year in AP classes (well, I had two, but had A's and B's in them alongside everything else.). I have a tested IQ of 129, and made a 30 on my ACT the first time around. So, yeah, I think that we're both evidence of what you mention.

Regardless, humanity MUST be evolving, because NO species STAGNATES. The problem is that because physical evolution is no longer emphasized, we may, in theory, be DE-VOLVING. Think about this:

***holes reproduce more, because they whore themselves. Therefore more ***hole babies. Because, in America, intellectuals are shunned, wheras, to my knowledge, in, say, the UK, intellects are treated as the jocks are here. Point being, at least in America, because the intellectually inferior reproduce more (for the most part. Stereotypes tend not to be completely true, but mostly so, in this case.), their traits are passed on more often. Point being, I'd say that qualities that help us to survive in the wild, and qualities that help us to survive in the context of the padded room, cookie cutter world which humans have created, are NOT actually the ones being passed on.

Now, of course, that's me talking. I'm pissed, as far as that goes, and, one could argue that those who attempt to remain monogamous actually have more successful reproductive occurrences, then, in fact, their traits are being passed on more.

Either way, natural selection, in the context of humans, no longer exists. However, it is indeed molded by what humanity has become.

[Vell]

natural selection exists. The humans in europe, the americas, and japan, dominated the world. as such, the people in africa and asia are now suffering.

And... I think you're mistaken in something. your a teen. your in high school. you see adults(teachers) and other students. thus, this is where your world view comes from. Never trust the media to accurately represent anything. I've seen people come out of shitty places with awesome personalities. one of my own parents is psychologically classified as the invulnerable child.

I say, before you decide things, age a bit. let yourself become an adult, and think hard about everything you see around you then. seek out the good things, act positively, be optimistic. mature yourself, because you never are as mature as you could be. learn some new skills. then reconsider the Devolution theory. it can't happen. i know way too many incredibly smart people.

[Seox]

natural selection exists. The humans in europe, the americas, and japan, dominated the world. as such, the people in africa and asia are now suffering.

And... I think you're mistaken in something. your a teen. your in high school. you see adults(teachers) and other students. thus, this is where your world view comes from. Never trust the media to accurately represent anything. I've seen people come out of shitty places with awesome personalities. one of my own parents is psychologically classified as the invulnerable child.

I say, before you decide things, age a bit. let yourself become an adult, and think hard about everything you see around you then. seek out the good things, act positively, be optimistic. mature yourself, because you never are as mature as you could be. learn some new skills. then reconsider the Devolution theory. it can't happen. i know way too many incredibly smart people.

I definitely agree with you there as far as aging, and always being able to mature. Teenage years tend to be FAR less stable, when compared to the mind of an adult. I know exactly what you're talking about as far as bias. Regardless, my opinion is pretty much this : natural selection isn't the same as it used to be. What humans are has influenced it.

I do like the point:

natural selection exists. The humans in europe, the americas, and japan, dominated the world. as such, the people in africa and asia are now suffering.

I've never really thought about that, but it rings true. Thanks for enlightening me ^_^

[Vell]

your welcome. and about the 'what humans are has influenced it' everything influences it. people learned to domesticate animals in order to live and increase. Limiting factor: Nomad want food. Nomat not want hunt. Nomad want be lazy. Nomad want food from ground. Nomad see plants in ground. Nomad farm.

[tSwitch]

natural selection exists. The humans in europe, the americas, and japan, dominated the world. as such, the people in africa and asia are now suffering.

I don't think there's a direct correlation.
The reason they are "suffering" is because of a difference in lifestyles.  Africans are for the most part tribal, and don't have a lot of technology, and China is really just overpopulated.

Europeans didn't make them that way, nor the Americans, it's because that's how they live.

[Vell]

well, true. imperialism and mercantilism didn't help them much economically, though.

[Seox]

The example is irrelevant compared to the theory. Point being, wars and other major events obviously MUST effect natural selection.

IE radiation in Japan after atom bombs. (And speaking of which, is it still radioactive?) I'm sure, at some point, that people nearby who started dying were survived by more people who could better resist it.

In other words, natural selection isn't always selected naturally.

XD.

Just a thought.

[Vell]

Eh. this topic is old anyway. humans, at their core, are just as natural as everything else.

[fugibo]

I agree with NAMK. It looks like humans have taken things into their own hands. But with that we've also sped up the evolution of things around us. As already said, today there are bacteria that are immune to penicilin. We've made them evolve as well. But we didn't evolve naturally while they did...

We didn't make them evolve, we gave them a target.

Autistic Savants. They can't function in our society at all. Yet we've all seen Rain Man. We've SEEN how quick and how immediate they can process data. We know the brilliancies they are capable of. Ok then, but they aren't 'intelligent'. They can't communicate, they can't function at all, LITERALLY, outside of their small comfort zone.

Aspies. Aspergers Syndrome. Like Autism, only milder. Usually, but not always, smarter than the average person. Not too much though, just like High School would be like 'if i handed in my homework and was all BLAH for everythign else, I'd pass with a 95... in everything.' that's sort of... me. Having never studied, EVER, I still do the best in nearly everything i do. I'm gettin pretty kick-ass in Brawl. I am Aspie.

I've heard tell from a trustworthy source that there IS one Savant-level person in the world who can TELL you how he thinks. he's like the perfect cross between an Aspie and a Savant. He's sociable, he can interact, yet he still thinks how we aspies and autistics do. he is AS SMART as savant. he can do math that would take anyone else probably days in his head. This, I believe, is where humanity is heading. All evolutions go in stages, yet humanity has never had a chance to document it as it happened. we have a chance, Now.

Sure, for now our intelligence comes at a social-loss. but a lot of the standard social rules make no logical sense. I can't tell you how many times I've heard the argument 'Yeah I agree, it shouldn't matter how you look, but sometimes it's just the logical choice. Like when you're going for a job interview.' when my entire statement was that it SHOULDNT matter what you look like. My hair is clean. My clothes are clean. I have sensory issues. I CANT STAND JEANS. or dress pants. I like sweats. theyre comfortable.

It seems to me like a lot of our mentality is wasted on dealing with the opinions of others, or with looking right. or Acting right. At my job I'm supposed to be like this, and do this. at home I'm supposed to be like this. Oh but if we go here, you can't wear that, and if you don't do this and this and this, and say that to this guy, and shake that person's hand, and if you don't follow some strange cultural rule you're spposed to instinctually know but that you don't because its total BS you'll totally embarass yourself. and you don't want that, do you?

I've been diagnosed with asperger's as of VERY recently. I'm 16, by the way. I RARELY study, and just got AB honor roll all year in AP classes (well, I had two, but had A's and B's in them alongside everything else.). I have a tested IQ of 129, and made a 30 on my ACT the first time around. So, yeah, I think that we're both evidence of what you mention.

Regardless, humanity MUST be evolving, because NO species STAGNATES. The problem is that because physical evolution is no longer emphasized, we may, in theory, be DE-VOLVING. Think about this:

***holes reproduce more, because they whore themselves. Therefore more ***hole babies. Because, in America, intellectuals are shunned, wheras, to my knowledge, in, say, the UK, intellects are treated as the jocks are here. Point being, at least in America, because the intellectually inferior reproduce more (for the most part. Stereotypes tend not to be completely true, but mostly so, in this case.), their traits are passed on more often. Point being, I'd say that qualities that help us to survive in the wild, and qualities that help us to survive in the context of the padded room, cookie cutter world which humans have created, are NOT actually the ones being passed on.

Now, of course, that's me talking. I'm pissed, as far as that goes, and, one could argue that those who attempt to remain monogamous actually have more successful reproductive occurrences, then, in fact, their traits are being passed on more.

Either way, natural selection, in the context of humans, no longer exists. However, it is indeed molded by what humanity has become.

35/148. I feel like I've kinda lost my touch recently, but w/e. I don't seem to have your sucky "ZOMG IS USIN CLINCZ ISANE FOR XCUZE NO SPEAK RIGHT" Aspys thing going on. I also happen to live in a hell-hole, so I get bonus points 
(IS DIRECTED AT ULTA, NOT SEOX, IS QUOTING SEOX CUZ HE LIKES HIS POST MOSTEST)

[Vell]

I'm not sure I get what you're saying in your post WcW, but I am pretty sure it's vastly irrelevant to the topic at hand.

[Seox]

I'm not sure I get what you're saying in your post WcW, but I am pretty sure it's vastly irrelevant to the topic at hand.

XD

WcW, you made a 35 and have an IQ of 148? (If I understand correctly.)

...



The ninja is proud.

Really though, that's in, what, like, the 99.5th percentile?

NIIIIIIIIIIIII(insert 35 I's)CE.

[fugibo]

I don't consider it much of an accomplishment. I personally find ~30 to be the ideal target people should aim for. Upper 30s are rather easy to get, if you have ACT experience (I've taken it four times, getting 24-26-33-36, over two years, and I've learnt that to do best on the test, you have to realize the objective is to get it all done as fast and accurately as possible rather than taking a test -- fine distinction there -- to simulate the exorbitant amounts of work at college as well as the high standards you have to hit). And seriously, look around at that "99.5%" that I supposedly beat -- is beating most of them really an accomplishment? Really? Or is it a task a monkey could pull off?

Ulta, it relates to the Aspys topic. I believe you introduced that yourself.

And anyone who denies Natural Selection also denies logic. It's an undeniable fact of life. The theory of Evolution, on the other, is only a theory and is debatable (personally, as a Christian, I count it as a theory of how God might've populated the world, and it still makes sense -- but it could still be wrong), though it makes more sense than "GDO BLEW A DIRTPILE AN D MADE HUMEZ!!!!"

I should really work on organizing my thoughts.

[Seox]

I don't consider it much of an accomplishment. I personally find ~30 to be the ideal target people should aim for. Upper 30s are rather easy to get, if you have ACT experience (I've taken it four times, getting 24-26-33-36, over two years, and I've learnt that to do best on the test, you have to realize the objective is to get it all done as fast and accurately as possible rather than taking a test -- fine distinction there -- to simulate the exorbitant amounts of work at college as well as the high standards you have to hit). And seriously, look around at that "99.5%" that I supposedly beat -- is beating most of them really an accomplishment? Really? Or is it a task a monkey could pull off?

Ulta, it relates to the Aspys topic. I believe you introduced that yourself.

And anyone who denies Natural Selection also denies logic. It's an undeniable fact of life. The theory of Evolution, on the other, is only a theory and is debatable (personally, as a Christian, I count it as a theory of how God might've populated the world, and it still makes sense -- but it could still be wrong), though it makes more sense than "GDO BLEW A DIRTPILE AN D MADE HUMEZ!!!!"

I should really work on organizing my thoughts.

XD, just as an aside, what do you think of those religious people who claim that "God(s) can't be taken logically, because they're 'beyond us'." I've gotten that WAAAAAAAY too many times, and, personally, I feel that People - Animals = Logic.

If people are "made in the image of ANY god(s)", then wouldn't logic, being the only distinction between ourselves and animals, be "godly?"

Just curious to see your opinion, WcW. If you think that this could start a trebuchet-based flame war, then (question = nil). I don't think it's that harmful, given the context, phrasing, question, etc.

[fugibo]

Meh. As long as you're not like "GOD IS FOR IDIOTS, LOLHA," I don't take much offense.

Honestly, there are many things about God that I know can't be understood, or interpreted logically. You can just accept them, doublethink-style. Like omnipresence and omniscience. And you can't ever definitely say anything about him other than what you take to be true from the foundations of your respective religion (ie what your main religious text, accepted truths, etc state, such as facts layed out by the Bible/Quran/Dianetics). For now, I'm getting tired (I only stay awake for ~12-14 hours a day, unlike most people who can stay up to midnight and beyond and still be up as early as me, which I don't understand), so yeah... 'nuff writing and having people take me seriously.

On topic: I think that what makes humans _really_ unique is that we've found an entirely new method of evolution, beyond just natural selection -- intellectual evolution, our ability to "reprogram" ourselves at will to adapt. We can evolve within a single generation, and then pass it on, exponentially increasing our rate of "evolution" and leading to technology, philosophy, and so on. *Longfellow goes to sleep, and hopes his name is changed now *

[Seox]

Meh. As long as you're not like "GOD IS FOR IDIOTS, LOLHA," I don't take much offense.

Honestly, there are many things about God that I know can't be understood, or interpreted logically. You can just accept them, doublethink-style. Like omnipresence and omniscience. And you can't ever definitely say anything about him other than what you take to be true from the foundations of your respective religion (ie what your main religious text, accepted truths, etc state, such as facts layed out by the Bible/Quran/Dianetics). For now, I'm getting tired (I only stay awake for ~12-14 hours a day, unlike most people who can stay up to midnight and beyond and still be up as early as me, which I don't understand), so yeah... 'nuff writing and having people take me seriously.

On topic: I think that what makes humans _really_ unique is that we've found an entirely new method of evolution, beyond just natural selection -- intellectual evolution, our ability to "reprogram" ourselves at will to adapt. We can evolve within a single generation, and then pass it on, exponentially increasing our rate of "evolution" and leading to technology, philosophy, and so on. *Longfellow goes to sleep, and hopes his name is changed now *

@Longfellow's On topic -
Interesting. It's very true, and AMAZING when put into perspective...that we can hyperevolve (USING A FIRE STONE! >.>) within a single generation. It's right there, and I've never thought about it. Nice.

[Blizzard]

Yes, please refrain from religious debates as they are forbidden on this forum.

[Seox]

Yes, please refrain from religious debates as they are forbidden on this forum.

I know. I just figured that that question, although religious, was not likely to trigger any flame wars. Sorry if it was pushing it ><

So, as far as evolution is concerned, what do you guys think humanity's next macroevolutional stage will be? (IE, what's the next "big difference?" Another finger?)

[fugibo]

Super-vanity. We'll be able to change our appearance over time. Seems to fit natural selection well enough.

[Diokatsu]

We're all gonna grow rockets out of our asses fueled by our farts.

[fugibo]

We're all gonna grow rockets out of our asses fueled by our farts.

Yay for dilbert

[Vell]

So, as far as evolution is concerned, what do you guys think humanity's next macroevolutional stage will be? (IE, what's the next "big difference?" Another finger?)

For the record, I would like to point out that there is a term for having six fingers: polyploidy, and the gene for it is actually DOMINATE over the five fingered gene.

[fugibo]

So, as far as evolution is concerned, what do you guys think humanity's next macroevolutional stage will be? (IE, what's the next "big difference?" Another finger?)

For the record, I would like to point out that there is a term for having six fingers: polyploidy, and the gene for it is actually DOMINATE over the five fingered gene.

Last time I checked, it was called polydactyly. And yes, it is dominate, just like most other mutations >_<

EDIT: Wait, polyploidy? God, you're an idiot, Ulta.

[Vell]

Iunno. twas long time ago that I heard of it.

[Seox]

Actually, I was thinking about that, just as I posted. I remembered that it WAS dominate - before that, I was like, OMGWTF how is that in ANY way advantageous to the point of evolution?!?!

But meh.

Thanks for terminology ^_^