If i forgot everything, then I have no proof anything is behind me.

Started by Vell, April 13, 2009, 10:36:26 pm

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Vell

ok imagine your sitting in a chair in a dining room.

you forget everything - EVERYTHING - and it feels like everything is new - you can't even speak whatever language you know the memory wipe was so complete.

do you have any reason, currently, at this exact moment, to believe that other than the back of the chair your sitting in (since you can feel it) that there is anything behind you?

G_G

A wall? I dunno lol.

If I forgot everything I wuold kill myself. Wait how would I do that if I wouldnt know I would do that O.o

trying to not be sarcastic here sorry :(

King Munkey

would you even know if something was behind you at all? would you think that there was nothingness

G_G Is my hero!
Munkey != monkey
Munkey > monkey

Starrodkirby86

There isn't any easy way to forget everything. Amnesia still doesn't limit something. Your sense of rationalism, for example, is still in tact. You just think in your mind a different way of interaction. Or maybe your own language. It's similar to a baby thinking like, "Oh! That's bad!" and "Oh! That's good", but he doesn't think English in his mind.

If you forgot all the way to the point you're a baby, then you're back at Square One and you relearn everything. But you have the abilities that aren't limiting you, so you may regain them faster. If you forgot all the way to the point you're a vegetable...You're a freakin' vegetable. End of story. You suck. Your life is over. Bam. Get eaten by those ants over there.

Now, going with this logic that your sanity is kept and logic is alive, you probably wouldn't even be thinking the question if something is behind you or not. It would be more like, "Where am I?" or "How do I survive or adapt in this situation?", but perhaps it's not in the language I say it is. A sense of confusion. Yeah.

But if I were to forcefully answer your question, there probably would be something behind you. Anything = Anything. This mysterious thing...Air. That's an object, especially according to our rules of Nouns in the English Language. That's behind us...Unless the dining room is in Space or something (But you'd die!).

It's hard to follow rules of life and follow this too in a cool way. Dx It's an interesting thinker. Haha.

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Still Aqua's biggest fan (Or am I?).




fugibo

Haha! I have eyes in the back of my head! I can see behind me, and there is nothing!

Vell

my side: No. To you, until you look around, and see with your eyes(unless your blind), that there IS in fact, something behind you, all you know is what is directly in front of you. It's a philosophical debate going on here, so unless you get that philosophy is ABOUT the confusing stuff no posting here pls.

I don't wanna see 'just enjoy life and fuck the confusing shit' in this thread, because it's specifically SUPPOSED to be ABOUT what confuses people. (I confuzzled Sal's mind today)

the basic theory, is that if none of my senses pick up that something exists, that to me for that moment, it does not. it may exist on a global scale, but a tree I've never laid eyes upon does not, to me, exist. a child across the globe I've never heard of, does not, to me, exist, because I've never had physical proof handed to me by my senses to process that would tell me it does.

I'm explaining this further since I guess I left it too unexplained.

EDIT: in this situation, you don't have memory to call upon to remember something is behind you, you've not Seen anything behind you, you've not felt anything behind you.

to you, nothing exists behind you. until you look around. and even then there's a chance nothing exists. for just because something exists once, does not mean it will continue too.

fugibo

Oh. Well, unless you just suddenly feel like there's something there, you won't know its there. When you forget, and suddenly wake up there, you'll just not know anything about your area.

However, most people would look around, so it wouldn't take long for them to find the answer.

Starrodkirby86

Agreed.

Ignorance is bliss. You believe something is real, then you believe it to be so. If you're unknown to something, or you don't know it or whatever, it doesn't exist to you. It's not your dictionary of existence. It's there when you want it to be there. But no, you don't seek the truth. You seek it there for a little and go oh so far, but you don't yearn for more. In this case, you just see what's behind you, convince yourself if it's a threat or not (Being that you forget everything you only go to primitive instincts), and if so...it just goes into a flowchart.

Persona 4 spoilers: ShowHide
Shin Megami Tensei: Persona 4 uses this as a main theme. It's only until the end that you really honestly find that out.


Speaking of flowcharts...

Spoiler: ShowHide

What's osu!? It's a rhythm game. Thought I should have a signature with a working rank. ;P It's now clickable!
Still Aqua's biggest fan (Or am I?).




Seox

Beyond that, I've often thought about the fact that to forget EVERYTHING is effectively death. Think about it. You could no longer think as you do now - you'd be thinking as an entirely new being, with NO INFLUENCES from your 'past-life'. That's why reincarnation sucks. You effectively die, because you will never know that you continue to live.

Make sense?
... (<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< TEH DOTS OF DOOM. Hey, kinda catchy. :naughty:)

Vell

it does in a way. however, when most people 'forget everything' they still remember several thigns: such as how to talk and communicate with people. so, ya know, there may be some sort of influence anyway.

Seox

Quote from: UltaFlame on June 14, 2009, 09:29:02 am
it does in a way. however, when most people 'forget everything' they still remember several thigns: such as how to talk and communicate with people. so, ya know, there may be some sort of influence anyway.


True. I'm mainly referring to the fact that you probably would no longer be "yourself", since what we call ourselves is really just every memory we've ever experienced, cobbled together somehow. I'm SURE that there'd be influence to some degree - I just think that you probably would no longer "exist", in a sense - only to yourself.
... (<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< TEH DOTS OF DOOM. Hey, kinda catchy. :naughty:)

Vell

for a while that may well be true. though you have to take in any and all consideration, and that would mean including the possibility of people remembering everything. and you still might have your own personality anyway,

Seox

XD, I wouldn't want to lose my memory, at any rate. No matter what, it seems like it would REALLY mess you up... *looks at topic*. XD

So then, theoretically, if my theory were true, would one "come back to life" upon regaining their memory? My thinking is no. It seems like the moment you lose your memory, effectively, you are no longer "conscious". Of course, like you've mentioned, there's always the chance of your retaining your personality, as well as other things. That retention would throw a wrench in ANY theory, because it OBVIOUSLY would interfere with the situation as a whole, and so you've got all these crazy what-ifs?.

So, JOOC, what made you think about this, anyways?
... (<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< TEH DOTS OF DOOM. Hey, kinda catchy. :naughty:)

Vell

dinner. there was talk I wasn't involved in, and the back of the chair i was in was annoying me, and then I got to thinking about what was behind me. and then I heard the word philosophy and was like 'how can this fit into philosophy' and then this came out somewhere.

well, they would. just, the events they had, and the memory of the events between forgetting and remembering would affect them. or it'd be an exchange. regain old memories, but your new ones are lost. so you're left with a choice. remain who you are... or become who you once were?

Seox

Quote from: UltaFlame on June 14, 2009, 01:40:02 pm
dinner. there was talk I wasn't involved in, and the back of the chair i was in was annoying me, and then I got to thinking about what was behind me. and then I heard the word philosophy and was like 'how can this fit into philosophy' and then this came out somewhere.

well, they would. just, the events they had, and the memory of the events between forgetting and remembering would affect them. or it'd be an exchange. regain old memories, but your new ones are lost. so you're left with a choice. remain who you are... or become who you once were?


Interesting thought. The fact that you have a choice, of sorts. Of course, I would think that it would not come consciously or voluntarily, but, point being, the person either becomes a new person, or resumes their old self.

Scary to think about.

The only fairly common memory loss that I can think about is alzheimer's. I REALLY wouldn't want that.

Do you think the level of memory degradation present in alzheimer's would be enough to trigger the topic thought? I'd think not, as they appear only to have short and partial long term memory loss, but, like was mentioned earlier (Starrodkirby), their sense of rationality seems to remain.

Interesting to think about.
... (<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< TEH DOTS OF DOOM. Hey, kinda catchy. :naughty:)

Vell

yes it is, but ya know... it's a philosophical thought; it can't be proven.

fugibo

Ooh, am I the first to say "Cogito ergo sum" here, or did Dio beat me to it?

And why didn't I say this earlier?

Vell


fugibo

Quote from: UltaFlame on June 14, 2009, 05:41:32 pm
because nobody would understand it?


IDIOT, GTFO OF INT DEBATE IF YOU DONT KNOW DESCARTES. :V

Vell


Seox

... (<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< TEH DOTS OF DOOM. Hey, kinda catchy. :naughty:)

fugibo

Err, well... Cogito ergo sum only makes marginal sense here. And it's very situational. But the general concept is already covered by Descartes, so yeah... you're centuries behind here.

Seox

Quote from: WcW on June 14, 2009, 08:57:05 pm
Err, well... Cogito ergo sum only makes marginal sense here. And it's very situational. But the general concept is already covered by Descartes, so yeah... you're centuries behind here.


XD, it's amazing; how relevant that is.

I've heard that before in English, but not in Latin. So does that mean that you think that not being able to think as you did makes you different, or that because you still think, you are still yourself?

It could go both ways ><.
... (<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< TEH DOTS OF DOOM. Hey, kinda catchy. :naughty:)

Vell


Seox

... (<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< TEH DOTS OF DOOM. Hey, kinda catchy. :naughty:)

fugibo

"I think, therefore, I am." Sometimes speculated that his true meaning was closer to "Dubito ergo sum," or "I doubt, therefore, I am."

Vell

oh. dur, I know that. next time, please provide a translation. I never analyzed that one though.

Seox

Quote from: Longfellow on June 14, 2009, 09:59:18 pm
"I think, therefore, I am." Sometimes speculated that his true meaning was closer to "Dubito ergo sum," or "I doubt, therefore, I am."


That sounds closer to what he used it for, but not to what its overall meaning can be attributed to. I think that the speculations only serve to accomodate.
... (<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< TEH DOTS OF DOOM. Hey, kinda catchy. :naughty:)

LurkerKoetsu

If you forget everything and you start this moment anew.

1. You wont need to know anything is behind you. You have rationale. That allows you to actually examine your enviroment. If you're in a lit room and there are shadows, you'll assume.

2. If you forget everything you wont forget EVERYTHING. A baby doesn't know crap but it does know how to scream, it knows that something is wrong when its hungry, it knows something feels wrong when it uses the bathroom. It knows that light is bright.

3. The first thing you think someone would do when they wake up in a place they don't know is look around. So yeah, even if they forget where they are.. kinda pointless to say well they wont know what's around them.


Seox

Quote from: LurkerKoetsu on June 25, 2009, 03:43:16 pm
If you forget everything and you start this moment anew.

1. You wont need to know anything is behind you. You have rationale. That allows you to actually examine your enviroment. If you're in a lit room and there are shadows, you'll assume.

2. If you forget everything you wont forget EVERYTHING. A baby doesn't know crap but it does know how to scream, it knows that something is wrong when its hungry, it knows something feels wrong when it uses the bathroom. It knows that light is bright.

3. The first thing you think someone would do when they wake up in a place they don't know is look around. So yeah, even if they forget where they are.. kinda pointless to say well they wont know what's around them.




Well, I really think that the main point is more along the lines of "you wouldn't have any way of knowing without looking."

Regardless, I like the points that you make. They all ring true, and I found the baby example to be a very concrete representation.

Well said ^_^
... (<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< TEH DOTS OF DOOM. Hey, kinda catchy. :naughty:)

LurkerKoetsu