Split from: Rock or Hop?

Started by fugibo, April 28, 2009, 10:06:39 pm

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fugibo

April 28, 2009, 10:06:39 pm Last Edit: April 30, 2009, 07:41:01 pm by Elite Four Starrodkirby86
Quote from: DiokatsuRock makes me too angry for me to say I like it. All the stupid Zepplin fans talking about how they're so amazing. Everyone thinking they're hardcore by listening to metal. It's just stupid.

Hip-hop is boring and therefore I refuse to listen to it unless suggested by another person. At least it's got a nice beat though. Something you can dance to.

Who cares btw? Both genres are old hat if you ask me. Electronic genres are nice and experimental in general like trance, hardcore, and bitpop. Progressive metal can be good and mathcore is interesting. Personally, I'm sick of the same old crap in the same old style. I think it's time we stop being so boring.


I can understand you not liking Rock, but kindly note that some of us just like rock, not one band. I'll listen to any I can get my hands on [very little, since I have almost no money to spend on music, sadly :(]

Starrodkirby86

All right Diokatsu. I'm very glad of you being strongly opinionated. But honestly, it sounds kind of childish. It's as if I went up and pouted, "All you guys suck!" :V:

Hm, maybe I was making an exaggeration. But eh, your points do make sense.

Now, there are ways that Rock and Rap are incorporating electronic music to make their songs more interesting. I believe they went through a new stage with that. A lot of the Rock I recall now has lots of elements with pop and use electronic instruments a lot. I say it progressed, and it's not the same boring crap over and over again...until you listen to it over and over again of course.

The same goes for Rap. You can hear those electronic star bits or how some people ruin original songs by remixing them. That's all done electronically. We're in that age. Maybe the people have turned into that stage, where electronica-sort of music is the thing (I'm not using the electronica genre is, but I'm saying computer instruments and whatnot).

It's still nice to hear older generation music though.

What's osu!? It's a rhythm game. Thought I should have a signature with a working rank. ;P It's now clickable!
Still Aqua's biggest fan (Or am I?).




fugibo

I like rock because it's the voice of America. Everything there is, from despair to joy to inanity. Everything good. And then there's all the parts that aren't American. Those are good too.

See, that is how essays should properly be written.

RoseSkye

Quote from: WcW on April 28, 2009, 10:56:23 pm
I like rock because it's the voice of America. Everything there is, from despair to joy to inanity. Everything good. And then there's all the parts that aren't American. Those are good too.

See, that is how essays should properly be written.


*Bitchslaps* America isn't just one flavor you idjit. America is progressive, everychanging.. America is the freedom to like shit other people dislikes. America isn't just Rock, America is music.. you gnave. If America was ice cream, it'd be Baskin Robbins.  Its a clusterfuck of shit not just rock.

That's like saying.. Potatoes are America because chips and frenchfries.

fugibo

I bullcrapped that the entire way through. I was saying that instead of having to alwalys bullcrap five paragraphs, it should only be two sentences.

Tazero

Quote from: RoseSkye on April 28, 2009, 11:33:22 pm
Quote from: WcW on April 28, 2009, 10:56:23 pm
I like rock because it's the voice of America. Everything there is, from despair to joy to inanity. Everything good. And then there's all the parts that aren't American. Those are good too.

See, that is how essays should properly be written.


*Bitchslaps* America isn't just one flavor you idjit. America is progressive, everychanging.. America is the freedom to like shit other people dislikes. America isn't just Rock, America is music.. you gnave. If America was ice cream, it'd be Baskin Robbins.  Its a clusterfuck of shit not just rock.

That's like saying.. Potatoes are America because chips and frenchfries.


I prefer Rock over Hop seeing as it's all bullshit music a few of the artist have somewhat of a meaning other than sex money power sorta attitude
EX
Three 6 Mafia --Slob on my Knob
Slob on my knob
Like corn on the cob
Check in with me, and do your job
Lay on the bed, and give me head
Don't have to ask, don't have to beg

I Prefer rock much more because there is more meaning than "Fuck me , suck me, let me do you in the *record scratch*"

EX;
Still Waiting --Sum 41
So am I-
Still waiting?-
For this world to stop hating-
can't find a-
Good reason-
Can't find hope to believe in-


If you were a fish...

Diokatsu

Rap is potentially the most meaningful genre of music. Rock and hip-hop have nothing over the politcal stances of older rap music. Rap began as a political statement, expressing discontent. It has turned into such a mess of sex, drugs and violence today that we forget those roots. Rock started as a form of country music. It has been transformed into something of a sex symbol in most cases.
And this:

So am I-
Still waiting?-
For this world to stop hating-
can't find a-
Good reason-
Can't find hope to believe in-

That's just crappy pacifism as an excuse to try and convince people that they actually care about what is going on. Music with lyrics like those don't actually have a unqiue message it wants spread. It's all repetitive.

Rock is also pretty broad. I can think of so many sub-genres of rock that it's impossible to pin which kind you mean. Name a specific genre.

Starrodkirby86

I did say something about the Old Rap being better...

QuoteThe old days Hip Hop songs were pretty great in rhythm and innovative, but the ones nowadays are filled with sexual lyrics to the point it really ruins the song.


Sure, some lyrics are great and all, some aren't. But honestly, I don't really care about the lyrics in some songs...unless it's totally catchy. :3

Hm...try thinking of these lyrics, The Fratellis, My Friend John:
QuoteWell the room was pink and the signs were serious
Paperback dolls being slapped delirious
Feeling like a joke in the bar underneath
And if it was Saturday night in the year of the good thief

What's osu!? It's a rhythm game. Thought I should have a signature with a working rank. ;P It's now clickable!
Still Aqua's biggest fan (Or am I?).




Diokatsu

Quote from: Elite Four Starrodkirby86 on April 29, 2009, 09:21:41 pm
I did say something about the Old Rap being better...

I wasn't ignoring your point, just reaffirming it and putting my own spin on it.

Also, music can be about anything and still hold value. Emotion expressed is something I consider to extremely important, almost essential, to my listening. And emotion isn't bound to words. Music has it's own language, expressed in all forms of the art. Some are simple, like hip-hop, rap and rock. Some are complex, like classical and new age. Some are supplemented by words, some are wholly instrumental. whatever the case, music of all forms take on a meaning. Some might be relevent to you, some to me. Meaning could be something universal like love, or local like protest. These feelings intertwine to create different tastes and feels that appeal to each in a way that is unique. Music is the global community.

RoseSkye

Quote from: MetaKnight on April 29, 2009, 08:38:47 pm
Quote from: RoseSkye on April 28, 2009, 11:33:22 pm
Quote from: WcW on April 28, 2009, 10:56:23 pm
I like rock because it's the voice of America. Everything there is, from despair to joy to inanity. Everything good. And then there's all the parts that aren't American. Those are good too.

See, that is how essays should properly be written.


*Bitchslaps* America isn't just one flavor you idjit. America is progressive, everychanging.. America is the freedom to like shit other people dislikes. America isn't just Rock, America is music.. you gnave. If America was ice cream, it'd be Baskin Robbins.  Its a clusterfuck of shit not just rock.

That's like saying.. Potatoes are America because chips and frenchfries.


I prefer Rock over Hop seeing as it's all bullshit music a few of the artist have somewhat of a meaning other than sex money power sorta attitude
EX
Three 6 Mafia --Slob on my Knob
Slob on my knob
Like corn on the cob
Check in with me, and do your job
Lay on the bed, and give me head
Don't have to ask, don't have to beg

I Prefer rock much more because there is more meaning than "Fuck me , suck me, let me do you in the *record scratch*"

EX;
Still Waiting --Sum 41
So am I-
Still waiting?-
For this world to stop hating-
can't find a-
Good reason-
Can't find hope to believe in-


Wow Meta you have no grasp of anything.. ever. Sum41 isn't Rock.. they're practically a boyband. They're basically pop.

*Ahem*
Also Misogyny runs deep in both Rap, and Rock.

Lets give you a reference. Guns and Roses, AC/DC, Van Halen, etc, etc.

If you like Rock, don't make stupid assumptions and just like Rock.  By the way.. since I'm on the subject of making you my little bitch. There are plenty of incoherent rock songs. I'll leave out the some Metal songs (since that's there whole selling point, growling into a mic.)
---------------------------------------------
Black Sabbath - Sabbath Bloody Sabbath

"God knows that your dog nosed
Bog blast all of you"
----------------------------------------------
Bon Jovi - I'll be there for you

"I guess this time you're really leaving,
I heard your suitcase say goodbye."
-----------------------------------------------
Iron Maiden - Can I Play with madness

"Your blind, too blind to see"
---------------------------------------------

Look me directly in the eyes and tell me that those snippets make a lick of sense.
What you're doing is selectively gathering quotes from songs of the inferior in the genre. Look, I'm all about free speech in America. Do what you want, but if you bullshit or don't make sense.. I will not only call you out on it.. I will rape you with no lubrication. Why? I'm forced to believe that you actually believe the bullshit that you are spewing. You are generalizing which is a sign of ignorance.. be it intentional or unintentional. Ignorance is dangerous.

Ignorance can lead to hatred, hatred can lead to conflict, conflict can lead to war, war leads to death. Be it a war of ideals, and the death of logic... or a war of the physical variety and the an absolute death. This is dangerous.

So the next time you wish to foolishly state something that mind numbingly foolish such as "one genre is meaningful.. (as if you were listening to Shakespeare)" I want you to remember this verbal lashing.

Now I will leave you with this.

Kanye West - Jesus Walks
lyrics: ShowHide
You know what the Midwest is?
Young & Restless
Where restless () might snatch your necklace
And next these () might jack your Lexus
Somebody tell these () who Kanye West is
I walk through the valley of the shadow of death is
Top floor the view alone will leave you breathless Uhhhh!
Try to catch it Uhhhh! It's kinda hard hard
Getting choked by the detectives yeah yeah now check the method
They be asking us questions, harass and arrest us
Saying "we eat pieces of shit like you for breakfast"
Huh? Yall eat pieces of shit? What's the basis?
We ain't going nowhere but got suits and cases
A trunk full of coke rental car from Avis
My momma used to say only Jesus can save us
Well momma I know I act a fool
But I'll be gone 'til November I got packs to move I Hope

[Hook x2]
(Jesus Walks)
God show me the way because the Devil trying to break me down
(Jesus Walks with me)
The only thing that that I pray is that my feet don't fail me now
(Jesus Walks)
And I don't think there is nothing I can do now to right my wrongs
(Jesus Walks with me)
I want to talk to God but I'm afraid because we ain't spoke in so long

To the hustlers, killers, murderers, drug dealers even the strippers
(Jesus walks with them)
To the victims of Welfare for we living in hell here hell yeah
(Jesus walks with them)
Now hear ye hear ye want to see Thee more clearly
I know he hear me when my feet get weary
Cause we're the almost nearly extinct
We rappers are role models we rap we don't think
I ain't here to argue about his facial features
Or here to convert atheists into believers
I'm just trying to say the way school need teachers
The way Kathie Lee needed Regis that's the way I need Jesus
So here go my single dog radio needs this
They say you can rap about anything except for Jesus
That means guns, sex, lies, video tapes
But if I talk about God my record won't get played Huh?
Well let this take away from my spins
Which will probably take away from my ends
Then I hope this take away from my sins
And bring the day that I'm dreaming about
Next time I'm in the club everybody screaming out

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUmcUuPo3Jo

As much of an Ego Kanye has.. his lyrics are about as misogynistic a public service announcement about zombies.
Keep in mind .. I'm an athiest. I do not believe in god, however I am an American and I believe in freedom of choice. Freedom of choice is not the same as selective ignorance. You should never be proud enough to be ignorant in anything.. research things before you make such accusations.

Now.. all this talk about Misogyny as me frisky. *Looks for Meta's mom*

Starrodkirby86

 :clap:  (Uh...don't mind the  :haha: ? 8D )

Wow, people are pretty passionate when it comes to music. A simple which is better has indeed escalated into something...hm, rather intelligent I must say. If the discussion continues to become pretty deep and all, it's going into Intelligent Debate. If it gets heated, this topic's going to get locked. Dumb comments...Spam, it'll remain here or be moved to the SPAM board. :P

Haha, the only one that had some interesting craziness was Black Sabbath's one.

What's osu!? It's a rhythm game. Thought I should have a signature with a working rank. ;P It's now clickable!
Still Aqua's biggest fan (Or am I?).




RoseSkye

April 29, 2009, 10:02:51 pm #11 Last Edit: April 29, 2009, 10:09:43 pm by RoseSkye
Quote from: Elite Four Starrodkirby86 on April 29, 2009, 09:57:39 pm
:clap:  (Uh...don't mind the  :haha: ? 8D )

Wow, people are pretty passionate when it comes to music. A simple which is better has indeed escalated into something...hm, rather intelligent I must say. If the discussion continues to become pretty deep and all, it's going into Intelligent Debate. If it gets heated, this topic's going to get locked. Dumb comments...Spam, it'll remain here or be moved to the SPAM board. :P

Haha, the only one that had some interesting craziness was Black Sabbath's one.


When do you ever see or hear a suitcase ever say goodbye to you?
Also.. being blind literally means the inability of visual interaction. (Sightless.)

So, if you're blind.. you cant see.. How the hell can you be too blind to see?

(Also.. as I said I like pop. However, if I see someone making an opinionated stance on something on the grounds that it is 'fact'. I'll try my hardest to debunk them before it spirals into a situation. I like music.. yes.. however.. must of the music I listen to is either Opera, Classical, or Pop. I like soothing music, it makes me feel collected)

Starrodkirby86

Quote from: RoseSkye on April 29, 2009, 10:02:51 pm

When do you ever see or hear a suitcase ever say goodbye to you?
Also.. being blind literally means the inability of visual interaction. (Sightless.)

So, if you're blind.. you cant see.. How the hell can you be too blind to see?


I thought of it as a little bit poetic.

Suitcases, for example, can signal a sign that someone is leaving. After all, it's basically the inventory someone has if they're going somewhere and all...That's what it can show.

I thought of the blinding as a sort of ignorance or ignoring, bah whatever. That's general figurative blindness...It didn't seem so farfetched there for me, but I forgot any explanation I had for this one. XD

In other words, I didn't take the lyrics literally...

Songs are like poems, you know? So...I take that idea open mindedly.

What's osu!? It's a rhythm game. Thought I should have a signature with a working rank. ;P It's now clickable!
Still Aqua's biggest fan (Or am I?).




RoseSkye

April 29, 2009, 10:25:21 pm #13 Last Edit: April 29, 2009, 10:27:05 pm by RoseSkye

QuoteI thought of it as a little bit poetic.

Suitcases, for example, can signal a sign that someone is leaving. After all, it's basically the inventory someone has if they're going somewhere and all...That's what it can show.


That would be true.. if he said "Your packed suitcase said goodbye"
However, the lyric was "I heard your suitcase say goodbye."
There is no mistaking the context of that. No matter how you read it, it makes no sense.

QuoteI thought of the blinding as a sort of ignorance or ignoring, bah whatever. That's general figurative blindness...It didn't seem so farfetched there for me, but I forgot any explanation I had for this one. XD

In other words, I didn't take the lyrics literally...

Songs are like poems, you know? So...I take that idea open mindedly.

Yes. I agree with you. However again, context.
What he said was redundant and nonsensical. (Noone point out the irony)

RoseSkye

April 30, 2009, 11:57:03 am #14 Last Edit: April 30, 2009, 12:05:48 pm by RoseSkye
QuoteSongs are like poems, you know? So...I take that idea open mindedly.


You so blatantly insult poetry as to compare fragile glass to a beautiful an eternal allotrope?
Have you no eye for poetry, have you no sense of beauty? Modern day musicians are no bards, they're jesters that parody true prose. Binding themselves the antagonist of true poetry. If you had any idea what true poetry was you would not equal this.. hogwash with aged wine.


Songs are like poetry he says...

What do you know about true poetry.



            THEN let not winter's ragged hand deface
            In thee thy summer ere thou be distilled:
            Make sweet some vial; treasure thou some place
            With beauty's treasure ere it be self-killed.
            That use is not forbidden usury
            Which happies those that pay the willing loan;
            That's for thyself to breed another thee,
            Or ten times happier be it ten for one.
            Ten times thyself were happier than thou art,
            If ten of thine ten times refigured thee:
            Then what could death do if thou shouldst depart,
            Leaving thee living in posterity?
            Be not self-willed, for thou art much too fair
            To be death's conquest and make worms thine heir.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Why, I well believe
U.e dares to mock my nose Ho insolent !

[He raises his sword.]

What say you ? It is useless ? Ay, I know I

But who fights ever hoping for success ?

I fought for lost cause, and for fruitless quest !

You there, who are you ! You are thousands ! Ah I

I know you now, old enemies of mine I

Falsehood !

[He strikes in the air with his sword."]

Have at you Ha ! and Compromise !
Prejudice, Treachery ! . . .

[He strikes.']

Surrender, I?

Parley No, never ! You too, Folly, you ?
I know that you will lay me low at hist ;
Let be Yet I fall fighting, fighting still I

[He makes passes in the air, and stops,
breathless.]

You strip from me the laurel and the rose !
Take all ! Despite you there is yet one thing
I hold against you all, and when, to-night,
I enter Christ's fair courts, and, lowly bowed,
Sweep with doffed casque the heavens' threshold blue,
One thing is left, that, void of stain or smutch,
I bear away despite you.


No my friend.. Modern day songs are like poetry as pig latin is like true latin.
There is no comparison that does that justice.  I hope you were smiling as you wrote that.. it had to be some sort of joke.

Anyone could rhyme words.
Yet, when one makes words their canvas and their soul their brush.. that is poetry.

Anyone could express love.
Yet, when one embraces their love and wholeheartedly are willing to die for them to live.. that is love.

My friend, Anyone could do anything they see fit.
Yet, that does not mean that they are doing something moral and just.

This has been a stoning of lore of days past.. a lynching of the dying art of wordsmithing. I've heard the death rattle as that comment was posted.. I must keep my dying friend alive.. for to revive him means the only happiness I had growing up. Poetry.

fugibo

Once again, I like Rock because it's my style. Hip-hop/rap are okay too, but I personally don't see them as true music (yes, they are music, but its kind of basic in most cases, unlike Classical/Country/Rock/etc, which usually are much more complex). Lyrics aren't that important to a genre -- some Rock/Pop songs make the worst of Hip Hop look godly.

Starrodkirby86

Quote from: RoseSkye on April 30, 2009, 11:57:03 amtext

I didn't say they are poems. My point over there was that analytical techniques for poems can be used for songs as well. o_o

If people don't have poetic means now, then so be it. Maybe it is really poetic, but it's not the type we've always been used to over the years and generations. It's a new age. D: Whatever, I'm probably just spouting words that aren't my opinion.

As what WcW said, lyrics aren't so essential the whole time...Trans-Siberian Orchestra doesn't have their lyrics. :/

Blech, I do not want to affiliate with this particular subject (not the original subject MetaKnight said) anymore.

What's osu!? It's a rhythm game. Thought I should have a signature with a working rank. ;P It's now clickable!
Still Aqua's biggest fan (Or am I?).




RoseSkye

April 30, 2009, 05:33:24 pm #17 Last Edit: April 30, 2009, 05:52:32 pm by RoseSkye
Quote from: WcW on April 30, 2009, 04:32:34 pm
Once again, I like Rock because it's my style. Hip-hop/rap are okay too, but I personally don't see them as true music (yes, they are music, but its kind of basic in most cases, unlike Classical/Country/Rock/etc, which usually are much more complex). Lyrics aren't that important to a genre -- some Rock/Pop songs make the worst of Hip Hop look godly.


Dare you compare classical to COUNTRY and Rock? That is way too direct to be a misnomer.

fugibo

Classical: True music
Country: Idiot lyrics, but they're good at the guitar at least
Rock: It depends, but usually very good at both the instruments and lyrics

I was grouping together the genres that have complex music.

Quote from: Elite Four StarrodKirby86
Trans-Siberian Orchestra doesn't have their lyrics. :/

Lol! Which reminds me, I recently got some of their music from a friend that's still just laying on my ext. HDD. I'll need to go grab that...

RoseSkye

April 30, 2009, 05:52:45 pm #19 Last Edit: April 30, 2009, 05:56:13 pm by RoseSkye
Quote from: WcW on April 30, 2009, 05:48:04 pm
Classical: True music
Country: Idiot lyrics, but they're good at the guitar at least
Rock: It depends, but usually very good at both the instruments and lyrics

I was grouping together the genres that have complex music.

Quote from: Elite Four StarrodKirby86
Trans-Siberian Orchestra doesn't have their lyrics. :/

Lol! Which reminds me, I recently got some of their music from a friend that's still just laying on my ext. HDD. I'll need to go grab that...


You guys are really ignoring the facts that I know things about the genre enough to debunk you. Obviously if you say something like ^that I will bring up something like this.


Complexity
The roots of hip hop are found in African American and West African music. The griots of West Africa are a group of traveling singers and poets, whose vocal style is similar to that of rappers and who are part of an oral tradition dating back hundreds of years. The African-American traditions of signifyin', the dozens, talking blues and jazz poetry belong firmly within this tradition, as do musical 'comedy' acts such as Rudy Ray Moore and Blowfly, considered by some to be forefathers of rap. Within New York City, griot-like performances of poetry and music by artists such as The Last Poets, Gil Scott Heron and Jalal Mansur Nuriddin had a significant impact on the post-civil rights era culture of the 1960s and 1970s.


Of course, one needn't quote an encyclopedia as a reference to know the roots of Rock, Country and Rap (which are both in Jazz).. and in Jazz the Origins heil from the same source..

Jazz: ShowHide
By 1808 the Atlantic slave trade had brought almost half a million Africans to the United States. The slaves largely came from West Africa and brought strong tribal musical traditions with them.[9] Lavish festivals featuring African dances to drums were organized on Sundays at Place Congo, or Congo Square, in New Orleans until 1843, as were similar gatherings in New England and New York. African music was largely functional, for work or ritual, and included work songs and field hollers. The African tradition made use of a single-line melody and call-and-response pattern, but without the European concept of harmony. Rhythms reflected African speech patterns, and the African use of pentatonic scales led to blue notes in blues and jazz.


Rock: ShowHide
The immediate origins of rock and roll lie in the late 1940s and early 1950s, when various popular musical genres of the time - including blues, country music, rhythm and blues, folk music and gospel music - combined to give rise to the new style.


Blues: ShowHide
The first publication of blues sheet music was Hart Wand's "Dallas Blues" in 1912; W. C. Handy's "Memphis Blues" followed in the same year. The first recording by an African American singer was Mamie Smith's 1920 rendition of Perry Bradford's "Crazy Blues". But the origins of the blues date back to some decades earlier, probably during the late 19th century. They are very poorly documented, due in part to discrimation within American society, including academic circles.[22] A testimony of blues music as it was before the 1920s is given by the recordings of artists such as Lead Belly[23] or Henry Thomas.[24] They show many different structures distinct of the twelve-, eight-, or sixteen-bar structure based on tonic (I), subdominant (IV) and dominant chords (V), which became later the most common forms.[25] What is now recognizable as the standard 12-bar blues form is documented from oral history and sheet music appearing in African American communities throughout the region along the lower Mississippi River, in Memphis, Tennessee's Beale Street, and by white bands in New Orleans.


So, the complexity isn't so much in the eye of the beholder, for music itself is pretty interesting. The corner stone of Modern music are all branches. All equally complex.. for somewhere in the transition for independent genres they became what you see now. Methods of expression and art.

BAH! Debunking you guys over and over again.