Split from: Rock or Hop?

Started by fugibo, April 28, 2009, 10:06:39 pm

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fugibo

April 28, 2009, 10:06:39 pm Last Edit: April 30, 2009, 07:41:01 pm by Elite Four Starrodkirby86
Quote from: DiokatsuRock makes me too angry for me to say I like it. All the stupid Zepplin fans talking about how they're so amazing. Everyone thinking they're hardcore by listening to metal. It's just stupid.

Hip-hop is boring and therefore I refuse to listen to it unless suggested by another person. At least it's got a nice beat though. Something you can dance to.

Who cares btw? Both genres are old hat if you ask me. Electronic genres are nice and experimental in general like trance, hardcore, and bitpop. Progressive metal can be good and mathcore is interesting. Personally, I'm sick of the same old crap in the same old style. I think it's time we stop being so boring.


I can understand you not liking Rock, but kindly note that some of us just like rock, not one band. I'll listen to any I can get my hands on [very little, since I have almost no money to spend on music, sadly :(]

Starrodkirby86

All right Diokatsu. I'm very glad of you being strongly opinionated. But honestly, it sounds kind of childish. It's as if I went up and pouted, "All you guys suck!" :V:

Hm, maybe I was making an exaggeration. But eh, your points do make sense.

Now, there are ways that Rock and Rap are incorporating electronic music to make their songs more interesting. I believe they went through a new stage with that. A lot of the Rock I recall now has lots of elements with pop and use electronic instruments a lot. I say it progressed, and it's not the same boring crap over and over again...until you listen to it over and over again of course.

The same goes for Rap. You can hear those electronic star bits or how some people ruin original songs by remixing them. That's all done electronically. We're in that age. Maybe the people have turned into that stage, where electronica-sort of music is the thing (I'm not using the electronica genre is, but I'm saying computer instruments and whatnot).

It's still nice to hear older generation music though.

What's osu!? It's a rhythm game. Thought I should have a signature with a working rank. ;P It's now clickable!
Still Aqua's biggest fan (Or am I?).




fugibo

I like rock because it's the voice of America. Everything there is, from despair to joy to inanity. Everything good. And then there's all the parts that aren't American. Those are good too.

See, that is how essays should properly be written.

RoseSkye

Quote from: WcW on April 28, 2009, 10:56:23 pm
I like rock because it's the voice of America. Everything there is, from despair to joy to inanity. Everything good. And then there's all the parts that aren't American. Those are good too.

See, that is how essays should properly be written.


*Bitchslaps* America isn't just one flavor you idjit. America is progressive, everychanging.. America is the freedom to like shit other people dislikes. America isn't just Rock, America is music.. you gnave. If America was ice cream, it'd be Baskin Robbins.  Its a clusterfuck of shit not just rock.

That's like saying.. Potatoes are America because chips and frenchfries.

fugibo

I bullcrapped that the entire way through. I was saying that instead of having to alwalys bullcrap five paragraphs, it should only be two sentences.

Tazero

Quote from: RoseSkye on April 28, 2009, 11:33:22 pm
Quote from: WcW on April 28, 2009, 10:56:23 pm
I like rock because it's the voice of America. Everything there is, from despair to joy to inanity. Everything good. And then there's all the parts that aren't American. Those are good too.

See, that is how essays should properly be written.


*Bitchslaps* America isn't just one flavor you idjit. America is progressive, everychanging.. America is the freedom to like shit other people dislikes. America isn't just Rock, America is music.. you gnave. If America was ice cream, it'd be Baskin Robbins.  Its a clusterfuck of shit not just rock.

That's like saying.. Potatoes are America because chips and frenchfries.


I prefer Rock over Hop seeing as it's all bullshit music a few of the artist have somewhat of a meaning other than sex money power sorta attitude
EX
Three 6 Mafia --Slob on my Knob
Slob on my knob
Like corn on the cob
Check in with me, and do your job
Lay on the bed, and give me head
Don't have to ask, don't have to beg

I Prefer rock much more because there is more meaning than "Fuck me , suck me, let me do you in the *record scratch*"

EX;
Still Waiting --Sum 41
So am I-
Still waiting?-
For this world to stop hating-
can't find a-
Good reason-
Can't find hope to believe in-


If you were a fish...

Diokatsu

Rap is potentially the most meaningful genre of music. Rock and hip-hop have nothing over the politcal stances of older rap music. Rap began as a political statement, expressing discontent. It has turned into such a mess of sex, drugs and violence today that we forget those roots. Rock started as a form of country music. It has been transformed into something of a sex symbol in most cases.
And this:

So am I-
Still waiting?-
For this world to stop hating-
can't find a-
Good reason-
Can't find hope to believe in-

That's just crappy pacifism as an excuse to try and convince people that they actually care about what is going on. Music with lyrics like those don't actually have a unqiue message it wants spread. It's all repetitive.

Rock is also pretty broad. I can think of so many sub-genres of rock that it's impossible to pin which kind you mean. Name a specific genre.

Starrodkirby86

I did say something about the Old Rap being better...

QuoteThe old days Hip Hop songs were pretty great in rhythm and innovative, but the ones nowadays are filled with sexual lyrics to the point it really ruins the song.


Sure, some lyrics are great and all, some aren't. But honestly, I don't really care about the lyrics in some songs...unless it's totally catchy. :3

Hm...try thinking of these lyrics, The Fratellis, My Friend John:
QuoteWell the room was pink and the signs were serious
Paperback dolls being slapped delirious
Feeling like a joke in the bar underneath
And if it was Saturday night in the year of the good thief

What's osu!? It's a rhythm game. Thought I should have a signature with a working rank. ;P It's now clickable!
Still Aqua's biggest fan (Or am I?).




Diokatsu

Quote from: Elite Four Starrodkirby86 on April 29, 2009, 09:21:41 pm
I did say something about the Old Rap being better...

I wasn't ignoring your point, just reaffirming it and putting my own spin on it.

Also, music can be about anything and still hold value. Emotion expressed is something I consider to extremely important, almost essential, to my listening. And emotion isn't bound to words. Music has it's own language, expressed in all forms of the art. Some are simple, like hip-hop, rap and rock. Some are complex, like classical and new age. Some are supplemented by words, some are wholly instrumental. whatever the case, music of all forms take on a meaning. Some might be relevent to you, some to me. Meaning could be something universal like love, or local like protest. These feelings intertwine to create different tastes and feels that appeal to each in a way that is unique. Music is the global community.

RoseSkye

Quote from: MetaKnight on April 29, 2009, 08:38:47 pm
Quote from: RoseSkye on April 28, 2009, 11:33:22 pm
Quote from: WcW on April 28, 2009, 10:56:23 pm
I like rock because it's the voice of America. Everything there is, from despair to joy to inanity. Everything good. And then there's all the parts that aren't American. Those are good too.

See, that is how essays should properly be written.


*Bitchslaps* America isn't just one flavor you idjit. America is progressive, everychanging.. America is the freedom to like shit other people dislikes. America isn't just Rock, America is music.. you gnave. If America was ice cream, it'd be Baskin Robbins.  Its a clusterfuck of shit not just rock.

That's like saying.. Potatoes are America because chips and frenchfries.


I prefer Rock over Hop seeing as it's all bullshit music a few of the artist have somewhat of a meaning other than sex money power sorta attitude
EX
Three 6 Mafia --Slob on my Knob
Slob on my knob
Like corn on the cob
Check in with me, and do your job
Lay on the bed, and give me head
Don't have to ask, don't have to beg

I Prefer rock much more because there is more meaning than "Fuck me , suck me, let me do you in the *record scratch*"

EX;
Still Waiting --Sum 41
So am I-
Still waiting?-
For this world to stop hating-
can't find a-
Good reason-
Can't find hope to believe in-


Wow Meta you have no grasp of anything.. ever. Sum41 isn't Rock.. they're practically a boyband. They're basically pop.

*Ahem*
Also Misogyny runs deep in both Rap, and Rock.

Lets give you a reference. Guns and Roses, AC/DC, Van Halen, etc, etc.

If you like Rock, don't make stupid assumptions and just like Rock.  By the way.. since I'm on the subject of making you my little bitch. There are plenty of incoherent rock songs. I'll leave out the some Metal songs (since that's there whole selling point, growling into a mic.)
---------------------------------------------
Black Sabbath - Sabbath Bloody Sabbath

"God knows that your dog nosed
Bog blast all of you"
----------------------------------------------
Bon Jovi - I'll be there for you

"I guess this time you're really leaving,
I heard your suitcase say goodbye."
-----------------------------------------------
Iron Maiden - Can I Play with madness

"Your blind, too blind to see"
---------------------------------------------

Look me directly in the eyes and tell me that those snippets make a lick of sense.
What you're doing is selectively gathering quotes from songs of the inferior in the genre. Look, I'm all about free speech in America. Do what you want, but if you bullshit or don't make sense.. I will not only call you out on it.. I will rape you with no lubrication. Why? I'm forced to believe that you actually believe the bullshit that you are spewing. You are generalizing which is a sign of ignorance.. be it intentional or unintentional. Ignorance is dangerous.

Ignorance can lead to hatred, hatred can lead to conflict, conflict can lead to war, war leads to death. Be it a war of ideals, and the death of logic... or a war of the physical variety and the an absolute death. This is dangerous.

So the next time you wish to foolishly state something that mind numbingly foolish such as "one genre is meaningful.. (as if you were listening to Shakespeare)" I want you to remember this verbal lashing.

Now I will leave you with this.

Kanye West - Jesus Walks
lyrics: ShowHide
You know what the Midwest is?
Young & Restless
Where restless () might snatch your necklace
And next these () might jack your Lexus
Somebody tell these () who Kanye West is
I walk through the valley of the shadow of death is
Top floor the view alone will leave you breathless Uhhhh!
Try to catch it Uhhhh! It's kinda hard hard
Getting choked by the detectives yeah yeah now check the method
They be asking us questions, harass and arrest us
Saying "we eat pieces of shit like you for breakfast"
Huh? Yall eat pieces of shit? What's the basis?
We ain't going nowhere but got suits and cases
A trunk full of coke rental car from Avis
My momma used to say only Jesus can save us
Well momma I know I act a fool
But I'll be gone 'til November I got packs to move I Hope

[Hook x2]
(Jesus Walks)
God show me the way because the Devil trying to break me down
(Jesus Walks with me)
The only thing that that I pray is that my feet don't fail me now
(Jesus Walks)
And I don't think there is nothing I can do now to right my wrongs
(Jesus Walks with me)
I want to talk to God but I'm afraid because we ain't spoke in so long

To the hustlers, killers, murderers, drug dealers even the strippers
(Jesus walks with them)
To the victims of Welfare for we living in hell here hell yeah
(Jesus walks with them)
Now hear ye hear ye want to see Thee more clearly
I know he hear me when my feet get weary
Cause we're the almost nearly extinct
We rappers are role models we rap we don't think
I ain't here to argue about his facial features
Or here to convert atheists into believers
I'm just trying to say the way school need teachers
The way Kathie Lee needed Regis that's the way I need Jesus
So here go my single dog radio needs this
They say you can rap about anything except for Jesus
That means guns, sex, lies, video tapes
But if I talk about God my record won't get played Huh?
Well let this take away from my spins
Which will probably take away from my ends
Then I hope this take away from my sins
And bring the day that I'm dreaming about
Next time I'm in the club everybody screaming out

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUmcUuPo3Jo

As much of an Ego Kanye has.. his lyrics are about as misogynistic a public service announcement about zombies.
Keep in mind .. I'm an athiest. I do not believe in god, however I am an American and I believe in freedom of choice. Freedom of choice is not the same as selective ignorance. You should never be proud enough to be ignorant in anything.. research things before you make such accusations.

Now.. all this talk about Misogyny as me frisky. *Looks for Meta's mom*

Starrodkirby86

 :clap:  (Uh...don't mind the  :haha: ? 8D )

Wow, people are pretty passionate when it comes to music. A simple which is better has indeed escalated into something...hm, rather intelligent I must say. If the discussion continues to become pretty deep and all, it's going into Intelligent Debate. If it gets heated, this topic's going to get locked. Dumb comments...Spam, it'll remain here or be moved to the SPAM board. :P

Haha, the only one that had some interesting craziness was Black Sabbath's one.

What's osu!? It's a rhythm game. Thought I should have a signature with a working rank. ;P It's now clickable!
Still Aqua's biggest fan (Or am I?).




RoseSkye

April 29, 2009, 10:02:51 pm #11 Last Edit: April 29, 2009, 10:09:43 pm by RoseSkye
Quote from: Elite Four Starrodkirby86 on April 29, 2009, 09:57:39 pm
:clap:  (Uh...don't mind the  :haha: ? 8D )

Wow, people are pretty passionate when it comes to music. A simple which is better has indeed escalated into something...hm, rather intelligent I must say. If the discussion continues to become pretty deep and all, it's going into Intelligent Debate. If it gets heated, this topic's going to get locked. Dumb comments...Spam, it'll remain here or be moved to the SPAM board. :P

Haha, the only one that had some interesting craziness was Black Sabbath's one.


When do you ever see or hear a suitcase ever say goodbye to you?
Also.. being blind literally means the inability of visual interaction. (Sightless.)

So, if you're blind.. you cant see.. How the hell can you be too blind to see?

(Also.. as I said I like pop. However, if I see someone making an opinionated stance on something on the grounds that it is 'fact'. I'll try my hardest to debunk them before it spirals into a situation. I like music.. yes.. however.. must of the music I listen to is either Opera, Classical, or Pop. I like soothing music, it makes me feel collected)

Starrodkirby86

Quote from: RoseSkye on April 29, 2009, 10:02:51 pm

When do you ever see or hear a suitcase ever say goodbye to you?
Also.. being blind literally means the inability of visual interaction. (Sightless.)

So, if you're blind.. you cant see.. How the hell can you be too blind to see?


I thought of it as a little bit poetic.

Suitcases, for example, can signal a sign that someone is leaving. After all, it's basically the inventory someone has if they're going somewhere and all...That's what it can show.

I thought of the blinding as a sort of ignorance or ignoring, bah whatever. That's general figurative blindness...It didn't seem so farfetched there for me, but I forgot any explanation I had for this one. XD

In other words, I didn't take the lyrics literally...

Songs are like poems, you know? So...I take that idea open mindedly.

What's osu!? It's a rhythm game. Thought I should have a signature with a working rank. ;P It's now clickable!
Still Aqua's biggest fan (Or am I?).




RoseSkye

April 29, 2009, 10:25:21 pm #13 Last Edit: April 29, 2009, 10:27:05 pm by RoseSkye

QuoteI thought of it as a little bit poetic.

Suitcases, for example, can signal a sign that someone is leaving. After all, it's basically the inventory someone has if they're going somewhere and all...That's what it can show.


That would be true.. if he said "Your packed suitcase said goodbye"
However, the lyric was "I heard your suitcase say goodbye."
There is no mistaking the context of that. No matter how you read it, it makes no sense.

QuoteI thought of the blinding as a sort of ignorance or ignoring, bah whatever. That's general figurative blindness...It didn't seem so farfetched there for me, but I forgot any explanation I had for this one. XD

In other words, I didn't take the lyrics literally...

Songs are like poems, you know? So...I take that idea open mindedly.

Yes. I agree with you. However again, context.
What he said was redundant and nonsensical. (Noone point out the irony)

RoseSkye

April 30, 2009, 11:57:03 am #14 Last Edit: April 30, 2009, 12:05:48 pm by RoseSkye
QuoteSongs are like poems, you know? So...I take that idea open mindedly.


You so blatantly insult poetry as to compare fragile glass to a beautiful an eternal allotrope?
Have you no eye for poetry, have you no sense of beauty? Modern day musicians are no bards, they're jesters that parody true prose. Binding themselves the antagonist of true poetry. If you had any idea what true poetry was you would not equal this.. hogwash with aged wine.


Songs are like poetry he says...

What do you know about true poetry.



            THEN let not winter's ragged hand deface
            In thee thy summer ere thou be distilled:
            Make sweet some vial; treasure thou some place
            With beauty's treasure ere it be self-killed.
            That use is not forbidden usury
            Which happies those that pay the willing loan;
            That's for thyself to breed another thee,
            Or ten times happier be it ten for one.
            Ten times thyself were happier than thou art,
            If ten of thine ten times refigured thee:
            Then what could death do if thou shouldst depart,
            Leaving thee living in posterity?
            Be not self-willed, for thou art much too fair
            To be death's conquest and make worms thine heir.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Why, I well believe
U.e dares to mock my nose Ho insolent !

[He raises his sword.]

What say you ? It is useless ? Ay, I know I

But who fights ever hoping for success ?

I fought for lost cause, and for fruitless quest !

You there, who are you ! You are thousands ! Ah I

I know you now, old enemies of mine I

Falsehood !

[He strikes in the air with his sword."]

Have at you Ha ! and Compromise !
Prejudice, Treachery ! . . .

[He strikes.']

Surrender, I?

Parley No, never ! You too, Folly, you ?
I know that you will lay me low at hist ;
Let be Yet I fall fighting, fighting still I

[He makes passes in the air, and stops,
breathless.]

You strip from me the laurel and the rose !
Take all ! Despite you there is yet one thing
I hold against you all, and when, to-night,
I enter Christ's fair courts, and, lowly bowed,
Sweep with doffed casque the heavens' threshold blue,
One thing is left, that, void of stain or smutch,
I bear away despite you.


No my friend.. Modern day songs are like poetry as pig latin is like true latin.
There is no comparison that does that justice.  I hope you were smiling as you wrote that.. it had to be some sort of joke.

Anyone could rhyme words.
Yet, when one makes words their canvas and their soul their brush.. that is poetry.

Anyone could express love.
Yet, when one embraces their love and wholeheartedly are willing to die for them to live.. that is love.

My friend, Anyone could do anything they see fit.
Yet, that does not mean that they are doing something moral and just.

This has been a stoning of lore of days past.. a lynching of the dying art of wordsmithing. I've heard the death rattle as that comment was posted.. I must keep my dying friend alive.. for to revive him means the only happiness I had growing up. Poetry.

fugibo

Once again, I like Rock because it's my style. Hip-hop/rap are okay too, but I personally don't see them as true music (yes, they are music, but its kind of basic in most cases, unlike Classical/Country/Rock/etc, which usually are much more complex). Lyrics aren't that important to a genre -- some Rock/Pop songs make the worst of Hip Hop look godly.

Starrodkirby86

Quote from: RoseSkye on April 30, 2009, 11:57:03 amtext

I didn't say they are poems. My point over there was that analytical techniques for poems can be used for songs as well. o_o

If people don't have poetic means now, then so be it. Maybe it is really poetic, but it's not the type we've always been used to over the years and generations. It's a new age. D: Whatever, I'm probably just spouting words that aren't my opinion.

As what WcW said, lyrics aren't so essential the whole time...Trans-Siberian Orchestra doesn't have their lyrics. :/

Blech, I do not want to affiliate with this particular subject (not the original subject MetaKnight said) anymore.

What's osu!? It's a rhythm game. Thought I should have a signature with a working rank. ;P It's now clickable!
Still Aqua's biggest fan (Or am I?).




RoseSkye

April 30, 2009, 05:33:24 pm #17 Last Edit: April 30, 2009, 05:52:32 pm by RoseSkye
Quote from: WcW on April 30, 2009, 04:32:34 pm
Once again, I like Rock because it's my style. Hip-hop/rap are okay too, but I personally don't see them as true music (yes, they are music, but its kind of basic in most cases, unlike Classical/Country/Rock/etc, which usually are much more complex). Lyrics aren't that important to a genre -- some Rock/Pop songs make the worst of Hip Hop look godly.


Dare you compare classical to COUNTRY and Rock? That is way too direct to be a misnomer.

fugibo

Classical: True music
Country: Idiot lyrics, but they're good at the guitar at least
Rock: It depends, but usually very good at both the instruments and lyrics

I was grouping together the genres that have complex music.

Quote from: Elite Four StarrodKirby86
Trans-Siberian Orchestra doesn't have their lyrics. :/

Lol! Which reminds me, I recently got some of their music from a friend that's still just laying on my ext. HDD. I'll need to go grab that...

RoseSkye

April 30, 2009, 05:52:45 pm #19 Last Edit: April 30, 2009, 05:56:13 pm by RoseSkye
Quote from: WcW on April 30, 2009, 05:48:04 pm
Classical: True music
Country: Idiot lyrics, but they're good at the guitar at least
Rock: It depends, but usually very good at both the instruments and lyrics

I was grouping together the genres that have complex music.

Quote from: Elite Four StarrodKirby86
Trans-Siberian Orchestra doesn't have their lyrics. :/

Lol! Which reminds me, I recently got some of their music from a friend that's still just laying on my ext. HDD. I'll need to go grab that...


You guys are really ignoring the facts that I know things about the genre enough to debunk you. Obviously if you say something like ^that I will bring up something like this.


Complexity
The roots of hip hop are found in African American and West African music. The griots of West Africa are a group of traveling singers and poets, whose vocal style is similar to that of rappers and who are part of an oral tradition dating back hundreds of years. The African-American traditions of signifyin', the dozens, talking blues and jazz poetry belong firmly within this tradition, as do musical 'comedy' acts such as Rudy Ray Moore and Blowfly, considered by some to be forefathers of rap. Within New York City, griot-like performances of poetry and music by artists such as The Last Poets, Gil Scott Heron and Jalal Mansur Nuriddin had a significant impact on the post-civil rights era culture of the 1960s and 1970s.


Of course, one needn't quote an encyclopedia as a reference to know the roots of Rock, Country and Rap (which are both in Jazz).. and in Jazz the Origins heil from the same source..

Jazz: ShowHide
By 1808 the Atlantic slave trade had brought almost half a million Africans to the United States. The slaves largely came from West Africa and brought strong tribal musical traditions with them.[9] Lavish festivals featuring African dances to drums were organized on Sundays at Place Congo, or Congo Square, in New Orleans until 1843, as were similar gatherings in New England and New York. African music was largely functional, for work or ritual, and included work songs and field hollers. The African tradition made use of a single-line melody and call-and-response pattern, but without the European concept of harmony. Rhythms reflected African speech patterns, and the African use of pentatonic scales led to blue notes in blues and jazz.


Rock: ShowHide
The immediate origins of rock and roll lie in the late 1940s and early 1950s, when various popular musical genres of the time - including blues, country music, rhythm and blues, folk music and gospel music - combined to give rise to the new style.


Blues: ShowHide
The first publication of blues sheet music was Hart Wand's "Dallas Blues" in 1912; W. C. Handy's "Memphis Blues" followed in the same year. The first recording by an African American singer was Mamie Smith's 1920 rendition of Perry Bradford's "Crazy Blues". But the origins of the blues date back to some decades earlier, probably during the late 19th century. They are very poorly documented, due in part to discrimation within American society, including academic circles.[22] A testimony of blues music as it was before the 1920s is given by the recordings of artists such as Lead Belly[23] or Henry Thomas.[24] They show many different structures distinct of the twelve-, eight-, or sixteen-bar structure based on tonic (I), subdominant (IV) and dominant chords (V), which became later the most common forms.[25] What is now recognizable as the standard 12-bar blues form is documented from oral history and sheet music appearing in African American communities throughout the region along the lower Mississippi River, in Memphis, Tennessee's Beale Street, and by white bands in New Orleans.


So, the complexity isn't so much in the eye of the beholder, for music itself is pretty interesting. The corner stone of Modern music are all branches. All equally complex.. for somewhere in the transition for independent genres they became what you see now. Methods of expression and art.

BAH! Debunking you guys over and over again.

Diokatsu


fugibo

...I'm talking about the actual music. Not the origins, not the culture, the music. You proved absolutely nothing by bringing up origins of it. I'm talking about the actual rhythm and notes I am hearing. Yes, the music may be very interesting culture wise, but I'm talking about the actual music.

RoseSkye

April 30, 2009, 07:02:55 pm #22 Last Edit: April 30, 2009, 07:05:19 pm by RoseSkye
Quote from: WcW on April 30, 2009, 06:56:00 pm
...I'm talking about the actual music. Not the origins, not the culture, the music. You proved absolutely nothing by bringing up origins of it. I'm talking about the actual rhythm and notes I am hearing. Yes, the music may be very interesting culture wise, but I'm talking about the actual music.


You're talking about the complexities of music.. so was I. My point was to prove how complex each genre is in the grand picture.. which I have proved.

Do you not see life as complex? In science we all came from the same source however there are many, many types of life on the planet with many many different tastes and upbringings. To address life as simple.. or music as simple is robbing it of it's history. For my friend, music is not simple, it is all complex. Just because your personal tastes lean in one direction does not mean you can blatantly state your opinion as a fact. I state this void of bias, of either genre. The reason I state this is for the same reason I lashed MetaKnight for his disregard of logic..


and I move that this thread may be split into debate.

Diokatsu

You say that that rap is less complex, which is why Rose started this debate. What does it matter which is more complex? That doesn't prove anything, not the in the least a better sound.
This cannot be moved into debate because all this thread is about is an opinion. I know I was just a big part of it as you all but, any more debate and I'd have to request a mod to lock this thread for digression or moving it in spam.

fugibo

Okay, LAST TIME, the music, not the genre. The complexity of the sine waves and the picture they form. Nothing else, just how mathematically, rhythmically, and interestingly complex each genre is on average. I'm okay with you supporting rap and I understand that all music is, in a sense, complex, but that's not what I'm talking about. Please move your debate from me to someone who actually disagrees. And, if I were a mod, this would already be SPAM'd or Debate'd *hint*

RoseSkye

April 30, 2009, 07:32:27 pm #25 Last Edit: April 30, 2009, 07:37:54 pm by RoseSkye
Quote from: WcW on April 30, 2009, 07:17:45 pm
Okay, LAST TIME, the music, not the genre. The complexity of the sine waves and the picture they form. Nothing else, just how mathematically, rhythmically, and interestingly complex each genre is on average. I'm okay with you supporting rap and I understand that all music is, in a sense, complex, but that's not what I'm talking about. Please move your debate from me to someone who actually disagrees. And, if I were a mod, this would already be SPAM'd or Debate'd *hint*



You're now clinging to opinion as if it was a cradle.

It seems that you understand me supporting rap. While I thank you for the understanding as I stated to Meta; if this was said about rock I would also chew those people out. I'm American, this land was founded on an simple statement "all are equal". The constitution states you have a right to free speech, however.. your statement is the equivalent of saying 2+2 = 22. You're saying that my two cents which I have lay foundation in cemented facts and your two cents which is blatantly your opinion which is constructed out of straw(man) can co-exist with eachother without collapsing.

Your statement is.. rock is complex, rap isn't as equally complex. The sound of music (to your palette) is more complex than rap.. However, I could someone who is partisan to rap and they will say "Rap is more complex than Rock".. which you both would be wrong.

That is an example called eye of the beholder. One mans trash is anothers treasure.

However, my statement was music in general is all complex due to its history.. even polka.

Polka: ShowHide
The polka is a lively Central European dance and also a genre of dance music familiar throughout Europe and the Americas. It originated in the middle of the 19th century in the Czech lands and is still a common genre in Swedish, Lithuanian, Czech, Polish, German, Hungarian, Austrian, Russian, Slovenian and Slovakian folk music....

....The name comes from the Czech word půlka - literally, "little half" - a reference to the short half-steps featuring in the dance. The word's familiar form has been influenced by the similarity to the Czech word polka, meaning "Polish woman".[1] The name has led to the dance's origin being sometimes mistakenly attributed to Poland.


To even state that one genre is more sophisticated than another is foolish.. because its opinionated bullocks.

Quote from: WcW on April 30, 2009, 04:32:34 pm
Once again, I like Rock because it's my style. Hip-hop/rap are okay too, but I personally don't see them as true music (yes, they are music, but its kind of basic in most cases, unlike Classical/Country/Rock/etc, which usually are much more complex). Lyrics aren't that important to a genre -- some Rock/Pop songs make the worst of Hip Hop look godly.


There is no way you can back-peddle out of this WcW. There is two ways out of this.. neither will shake the solidarity of my statements. This is locked (or you don't post when I call you out on obviously erroneous statements), or you realize the folly of your statements.

Starrodkirby86

This can't be moved to SPAM. This discussion is pretty serious (Not in terms of importance and all, but too serious to be in SPAM), but you guys are really taking a lot of things way more than it is, heh. It honestly does make it able to be a debate, even if it's kind of...silly. <_<;

But moving is moving~

Some posts related to the actual poll is there, but the ones relating to this debate shall be moved. -3-;

By the way, there's good reason for this to be in Intelligent Debate. This is a debate. We all know that. It's been said >9000 times. And it's Intelligent. (Well, maybe not, but you get the point) :P

What's osu!? It's a rhythm game. Thought I should have a signature with a working rank. ;P It's now clickable!
Still Aqua's biggest fan (Or am I?).




Diokatsu

Quote from: WcW on April 30, 2009, 07:17:45 pm
Okay, LAST TIME, the music, not the genre. The complexity of the sine waves and the picture they form. Nothing else, just how mathematically, rhythmically, and interestingly complex each genre is on average.

Fine. Classical wins. Electronic is much more rhythmically experiemental than rock, so it gets second. Rock all just 4/4 anyways. Nothing even remotely complex about it in a rhythmic sense. To judge music by mathametics seems unimportant. No one is going to bothering arguing with you. Interesting is in the eyes of the beholder.


fugibo

Okie dokie, I've decided that this isn't worth continuing, since Rose obviously doesn't understand that the complexity isn't actually opinion-based in this context, but w/e.

@dio: Hey, sometimes they go 5/4 or 3/4.... they mix it up every once in a while :P :V

Tazero

Quote from: Gym Leader Diokatsu on April 29, 2009, 09:11:40 pm
Rap is potentially the most meaningful genre of music. Rock and hip-hop have nothing over the politcal stances of older rap music. Rap began as a political statement, expressing discontent. It has turned into such a mess of sex, drugs and violence today that we forget those roots. Rock started as a form of country music. It has been transformed into something of a sex symbol in most cases.
And this:

So am I-
Still waiting?-
For this world to stop hating-
can't find a-
Good reason-
Can't find hope to believe in-

That's just crappy pacifism as an excuse to try and convince people that they actually care about what is going on. Music with lyrics like those don't actually have a unqiue message it wants spread. It's all repetitive.

Rock is also pretty broad. I can think of so many sub-genres of rock that it's impossible to pin which kind you mean. Name a specific genre.


A specific genre? Punk , Punk is a political staement stating their beliefs. Still Waiting - Telling the world to stop war as they see fit, stop fighting


If you were a fish...

RoseSkye

April 30, 2009, 09:05:18 pm #30 Last Edit: April 30, 2009, 10:02:55 pm by RoseSkye
*Ahem*

Quote"Once again, I like Rock because it's my style. Hip-hop/rap are okay too, but I personally don't see them as true music (yes, they are music, but its kind of basic in most cases, unlike Classical/Country/Rock/etc, which usually are much more complex). Lyrics aren't that important to a genre -- some Rock/Pop songs make the worst of Hip Hop look godly."


No matter how much I read this statement  which started the debate I can not see anything even hinting at Sine waves.

Quote"Classical: True music
Country: Idiot lyrics, but they're good at the guitar at least
Rock: It depends, but usually very good at both the instruments and lyrics

I was grouping together the genres that have complex music."


Once again.. nothing hinting at sine waves..

Quote"Okay, LAST TIME, the music, not the genre. The complexity of the sine waves and the picture they form. Nothing else, just how mathematically, rhythmically, and interestingly complex each genre is on average. I'm okay with you supporting rap and I understand that all music is, in a sense, complex, but that's not what I'm talking about. Please move your debate from me to someone who actually disagrees. And, if I were a mod, this would already be SPAM'd or Debate'd *hint*"


Only when you were on your last leg had you added that.. as if you had reiterated something I had ignored.

Now if you want to debate Sine waves. I shall applaud you. With this only does your argument stand any ground.. (be it not sturdy, and barren of any fruit)

Spoiler: ShowHide
This wave pattern occurs often in nature, including ocean waves, sound waves, and light waves. Also, a rough sinusoidal pattern can be seen in plotting average daily temperatures for each day of the year, although the graph may resemble an inverted cosine wave.

Graphing the voltage of an alternating current gives a sine wave pattern. In fact, graphing the voltage of direct current full-wave rectification system gives an absolute value sine wave pattern, where the wave stays on the positive side of the x-axis.


Spoiler: ShowHide
The human ear can recognize single sine waves because sounds with such a waveform sound "clean" or "clear" to humans; some sounds that approximate a pure sine wave are whistling, a crystal glass set to vibrate by running a wet finger around its rim, and the sound made by a tuning fork.


References Dragonforce or Hendrix.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmU2R9lTivY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyV-VeCJmVU

Yet you're relying on spoken word rap.. and that isn't fair as as you're comparing one sub genre to combat another sub genre.

Now if I focused on a genre of a hip hop that can stand on equal footing in sine wave complexity with Instrumental Rock. Your argument would be debunked.. which I will.

Lets say um... table turners

DJing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXmfleawFHM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPasebVMIW4

Now..  in terms of complexity they are more equal contenders with a different style of music.



EDIT:
Blah.. I'm too sick read a friggin essay to prove a point (that wasn't presented at first).
He may have me when it comes to sine waves. Well.. we'll see. This should be outlawed.. changing points in debating is very dishonorable.

Shit I was wrong.. I admit defeat for the moment. Even recorded human speech isn't a sinewave.. unless converted.
Pisses me off that you would go so low as to insert something that wasn't originally implied... whatever.



You may have a point with complexity of sine waves .. but I can easily point toward several things that can topple that.

You know.. a simple whistle in a song can produce a sinewave. I am very angry that you made me listen to this shit just to prove a point.

The Whistle Song
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfPKqoFo1dY&feature=related

2 Short - Blow my whistle
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUVfDvIP2EQ&feature=related


Also applying guitars to rap.

Party Like a RockStar
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMgxgPN2LY4

Linkin Park  - High Voltage (Also.. LP applies record scratching to their rap.. which gives them an advantage over rock)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRmyPVqIyBQ&feature=PlayList&p=1D673CA801DC55C8&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=11

D-12 - Fight Music
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=II6ZZ_nhGCA&feature=PlayList&p=1D673CA801DC55C8&index=14


I could post others .. but I'm done. If you have any other arguments present them.

fugibo

*ignores huge block of text*

I might not have made it clear at the beginning, but that's what I meant every time I used "complex." So.... yeah. Like I said, some genres are truly more complex, even at the lowest level. See? I'm not ignorant, like I said. So please, realize that I'm not arguing with you.

RoseSkye

May 01, 2009, 11:58:57 am #32 Last Edit: May 01, 2009, 12:12:54 pm by RoseSkye
Quote from: WcW on May 01, 2009, 07:23:47 am
*ignores huge block of text*

I might not have made it clear at the beginning, but that's what I meant every time I used "complex." So.... yeah. Like I said, some genres are truly more complex, even at the lowest level. See? I'm not ignorant, like I said. So please, realize that I'm not arguing with you.


http://forum.chaos-project.com/index.php?action=shout_archive;start=20


Today at 04:36:02 AM RoseSkye - (Secret: I hate rap.. with a passion.)
Today at 04:34:00 AM RoseSkye - I get it too.. but it's opinion and he failed to let it be known. I would have no problem if he said "in my opinion" however.. he didn't so.. in my eyes he believes it to be fact. That's where debate territory lies.. and I hope he doesn't stop.. cuz I like debating :'(.
Today at 04:30:46 AM Elite Four Starrodkirby86 - I can see where WcW would get the part where Rap is less complex than Rock, but Rap in its own way is complex. The lyrics, the music, all that stuff. From that viewpoint there...they're complex in their own ways. But...whatever, I'm not going to debate in the shoutbox.
Today at 04:26:52 AM RoseSkye - My point -if you're talking about the rap vs rock argument- was at first was when WcW said that rap wasn't as complex as rock: That's opinion. Anything that branches out from one genre and sounds -completely- different must be complex. My sine wave point is: That's irrelevant, rap can easily be as complex as rock by simply changing instruments.


If you really wanted to end the debate you would state that it is your opinion.. and my argument would shatter. Yet, You're still saying that a genre can be more complex.

"I am very angry that you made me listen to this shit just to prove a point."

tSwitch



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RoseSkye

May 01, 2009, 02:58:16 pm #34 Last Edit: May 01, 2009, 02:59:18 pm by RoseSkye
Quote from: Eilte Four NAMKCOR on May 01, 2009, 02:24:09 pm
you're all wrong.


fuck ... and the winner of this debate is...

Spoiler: ShowHide
Peach!



Oh, did I win?



Diokatsu


Tazero

A political statement to the goverment such as
Sum 41
Blink 182(not as much)
SOAD
GBT
STTR
so on so forth
it uses profanity not as much as Rap / other genres alike, I can actually understand what they say not direct, but withing the lyrics and ear pleasingness not arythimatic or dissonant but pleasing


If you were a fish...

Diokatsu

Educate yourself

Rock and rap have political statements, we got that. Now it comes down to which we like better. Rock can be good. I love System of a Down. They have political statements, yes. But I also listen to Rage, Public Enemy and Tupac. They do, too. And rap has been protesting long before rock has. Sum 41 isn't really rock btw. :x

Sleep Now in the Fire: ShowHide

Video
Lyrics:
The world is my expense
The cost of my desire
Jesus blessed me with its future
And I protect it with fire
So raise your fists
And march around
Just don't take what you need
I'll jail and bury those committed
And smother the rest in greed
Crawl with me into tomorrow
Or I'll drag you to your grave
I'm deep inside your children
They'll betray you in my name

Hey, hey
Sleep now in the fire

Hey, hey
Sleep now in the fire

The lie is my expense
The scope of my desire
The party blessed me with its future
And I protect it with fire
I am the Nina The Pinta The Santa Maria
The noose and the rapist
The fields overseer
The agent of orange
The priests of Hiroshima
The cost of my desire
Sleep now in the fire

Hey, hey
Sleep now in the fire

Hey, hey
Sleep now in the fire

For it's the end of history
It's caged and frozen still
There is no other pill to take
So swallow the one
That made you ill
The Nina The Pinta The Santa Maria
The noose and the rapist
The fields overseer
The agent of orange
The priests of Hiroshima
The cost of my desire
To Sleep now in the fire


NOW THAT IS SUM POLITICAL PROTEST MUSIC! XD

Tazero

Political statement about povery much?
underclass Hero: ShowHide

1..2..3..4
Well I won't be caught living in a dead end job
While praying to my government guns and gods
Now it's us against them
We're here to represent
To spit right in the face of the establishment.

And now i dont believe (ain't got no faith in nothing)
Stand on my own (ain't got no sympathy)
Wasting the youth (while being young and useless)
Speak for yourself (and dont pray for me)

Well because we're doing fine
And we don't need to be told
That we're here doing fine
Cause we won't give you control
And we don't need anything from you
Cause we'll be just fine
And we won't be bought and sold
Just like you

(A call across the underclass)

Calling out loud with no respect
I'm not the one, just another reject
I'm the voice to offend, All those who pretend
Unsung against the grain I'm here to rise against

And now i'm desensitized ( I state my place in nowhere)
Burning the flag (of the degeneration)
Everyone see (the anthem of no future)
Down with the mass (causes we're not listening)

Well because we're doing fine
And we don't need to be told
That we're here doing fine
Cause we won't give you control
And we don't need anything from you
Cause we'll be just fine
And we won't be bought and sold
Just like you

May I have your attention please...
I pledge allegiance to the underclass as your hero at large.

1..2..3..4

We're the saints of degeneration
We don't owe anyone an explanation
Fuck elitists
We don't need this
We're the elite of the just alright

Well because we're doing fine
And we don't need to be told
That we're here doing fine
Cause we won't give you control
And we don't need anything from you
Cause we'll be just fine
And we won't be bought and sold
Just like you


If you were a fish...

Diokatsu

Quote from: MetaKnight on May 03, 2009, 08:05:47 pm
it uses profanity not as much as Rap / other genres alike

My song had no profanity. And what band is that?

fugibo

Peace of Mind: ShowHide

Now if youre feelin kinda low bout the dues youve been paying
Futures coming much too slow
And you wanna run but somehow you just keep on stayin
Cant decide on which way to go
Yeah, yeah, yeah

I understand about indecision
But I dont care if I get behind
People livin in competition
All I want is to have my peace of mind.

Now youre climbin to the top of the company ladder
Hope it doesnt take too long
Cantcha you see therell come a day when it wont matter
Come a day when youll be gone

I understand about indecision
But I dont care if I get behind
People li vin in competition
All I want is to have my peace of mind.

Take a look ahead, take a look ahead, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah...

Now everybodys got advice they just keep on givin
Doesnt mean too much to me
Lots of people out to make-believe theyre livin
Cant decide who they should be.

I understand about indecision
But I dont care if I get behind
People li vin in competition
All I want is to have my peace of mind.

Take a look ahead, take a look ahead. look ahead.


I find mine has a good little point of its own. And no profanity. And its pro-government, too. And it PROVIDES EXAMPLES!!!!!11one

RoseSkye

May 03, 2009, 10:05:51 pm #41 Last Edit: May 03, 2009, 10:08:55 pm by RoseSkye
Quoteit uses profanity not as much as Rap / other genres alike, I can actually understand what they say not direct, but withing the lyrics and ear pleasingness not arythimatic or dissonant but pleasing


This was never a poll thread this was a "Hey, like what I like thread. I'm right, you're wrong.. agree with me. Thread." Hiding in the camouflage of 'unbiased'

That would be fertile grounds for debate.. if.. Meta wasn't such a dorky idiot.
arythimatic <-- Not a fucking word

Starrodkirby86

Quote from: RoseSkye on May 03, 2009, 10:05:51 pm
That would be fertile grounds for debate.. if.. Meta wasn't such a dorky idiot.
You guys sure like poking fun at him. :V:

(of course...the actions you do constitute to what people think of you, etc. etc.)

Goodness, this is lyrics city here...

What's osu!? It's a rhythm game. Thought I should have a signature with a working rank. ;P It's now clickable!
Still Aqua's biggest fan (Or am I?).




fugibo

I'm not. I'm just making comments now.

I like Rock. It is musical. Hehe, prove me wrong now, ROSE!!!! /jk

RoseSkye

May 03, 2009, 10:15:35 pm #44 Last Edit: May 03, 2009, 10:35:19 pm by RoseSkye
Quote from: Elite Four Starrodkirby86 on May 03, 2009, 10:09:03 pm
Quote from: RoseSkye on May 03, 2009, 10:05:51 pm
That would be fertile grounds for debate.. if.. Meta wasn't such a dorky idiot.
You guys sure like poking fun at him. :V:

(of course...the actions you do constitute to what people think of you, etc. etc.)

Goodness, this is lyrics city here...



I'm a douchebag.. I don't hide that fact. I even egg people on.

Of course, I don't see anyone here as a friend. I guess I could compare our relationship as a high school clique.
You guys are the buddy buddy friends that gather. I'm the random guy that throws eggs and makes perverted jokes. You're a bit too confused to ban me or anything so you just pretend I'm funny and I've always been friends with you. Yet, I haven't.. I'm just someone bored enough to make 300+ posts in a month or so.. I'm like that one bum in the park that mumbles to himself and touches your mom.

Spoiler: ShowHide
Your mom has a nice butt, SRK



tSwitch



FCF3a A+ C- D H- M P+ R T W- Z- Sf RLCT a cmn+++ d++ e++ f h+++ iw+++ j+ p sf+
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Diokatsu

Quote from: RoseSkye on May 03, 2009, 10:15:35 pm
Of course, I don't see anyone here as a friend.

D=
Quote from: Eilte Four NAMKCOR on May 03, 2009, 10:15:41 pm
ROW ROW FIGHT DA POWER

ROW ROW!

Where did Rock vs Hip-hop start? It should be Rock vs Rap at least.

RoseSkye

@WcW

*Ignores JK because that wouldn't be fun* Sure.. I like a challenge.

Definition of Music: ShowHide
1.  Of, relating to, or capable of producing music: a musical instrument.
2. Characteristic of or resembling music; melodious: a musical speaking voice.
3. Set to or accompanied by music: a musical revue.
4. Devoted to or skilled in music.


To prove you wrong all I have to do is somehow prove rock isn't musical..

Definition of Rock: ShowHide
A form of popular music arising from and incorporating a variety of musical styles, especially rhythm and blues, country music, and gospel. Originating in the United States in the 1950s, it is characterized by electronically amplified instrumentation, a heavily accented beat, and relatively simple phrase structure


It says that it is a variety of musical styles especially rhythm and blues, country music, and gospel (oh lordy). . and ironically a relatively simple phrase structure. That is from the dictionary.. not me.

-Noun Definition
a play or film that has dialogue interspersed with songs and dances

Of course I could be a dick and just address the noun definition and win on a technicality.. but.. that'd be an asshole move. So okay..

Let's play with the Genres of Rock, shall we?
Glam Rock.

Warning.. this is totally gay. And they aren't cute in drag.: ShowHide

Definition of Glam Rock: ShowHide
A style of English rock music from the early 1970s, distinguished by the glamorous, glittery costumes of its performers and its bouncy beat and lyrics.


Without it's fashion and shoulder pads (har har har) would Glam Rock be any different than pop rock? (Hey hey, you you.. I don't like your..). It goes without saying that even though it produces music.. it relies on image more. However.. it does need music, or it'll just be Drag. So..

I could continue down the list of genres but you have a point. Unless there is an instance when Rock is done without instruments...  acapella I wouldn't have a case

Tazero

Quote from: Gym Leader Diokatsu on May 03, 2009, 09:10:05 pm
Quote from: MetaKnight on May 03, 2009, 08:05:47 pm
it uses profanity not as much as Rap / other genres alike

My song had no profanity. And what band is that?


Sum 41 ;)
Though I personally like the guitar more than rap cuz of whats it's become, not what it was


If you were a fish...

fugibo

Lol, SRK, I was looking at a keyboard earlier today upside-down and I thought the ! was i, they looked so much a like :P

Oh yeah, and:
- Rose, it's musical. I'm skipping everything you said.
- Topic: *sigh* A certain three people, myself included, have kinda ruined this debate :/

Tazero

I love how rose sorta made this topic /perverted/ in a way.
I love how rose is insulting those who he doesn't see the point of which the words in the sentence are arranged although, because some people can't spell a word doesn'tr give you the right to flame bait. WcW you should lock the topic.no point in continueing


If you were a fish...

Diokatsu

Quote from: MetaKnight on May 04, 2009, 08:31:19 pm
I love how rose sorta made this topic /perverted/ in a way.
I love how rose is insulting those who he doesn't see the point of which the words in the sentence are arranged although, because some people can't spell a word doesn'tr give you the right to flame bait. WcW you should lock the topic.no point in continueing

Learn English. It shouldn't be hard for you to spell or arrange those sentences in a manner that is readable. In particular, that second sentence lacks structure. Use commas.

Tazero

is this the fucking correct Meta thread like every other fucking thread i post in  >:(


If you were a fish...

Diokatsu

Quote from: MetaKnight on May 04, 2009, 08:40:13 pm
is this the fucking correct Meta thread like every other fucking thread i post in >:(

No. It's the correct everyone thread, except you just need more correction. If you shall not purge the evil from within thyself, it shall be purged with the force of Hell itself!

fugibo

I'm not a mod anymore. I wouldn't mind being one again, but that would probably require me having to be active or something. I can't have responsibility.

lol @ Dio's last post

RoseSkye

Quote from: Biker WcW on May 04, 2009, 06:15:49 pm
Lol, SRK, I was looking at a keyboard earlier today upside-down and I thought the ! was i, they looked so much a like :P

Oh yeah, and:
- Rose, it's musical. I'm skipping everything you said.
- Topic: *sigh* A certain three people, myself included, have kinda ruined this debate :/


- WcW I know its musical I'm just doing it for the sake of debate.

fugibo

 - Rose I'm saying its musical to deal 57 points of damage and inflict paralysis

Vell

I happen to like 'hey hey you you, I don't like your...' ...I used to hate it and run screaming. then I saw a particular video that made me lol and now I just laugh when i hear it... speaking of that, Ima go find it again.

RoseSkye

Quote from: Biker WcW on May 04, 2009, 09:10:39 pm
- Rose I'm saying its musical to deal 57 points of damage and inflict paralysis


(Note: Noone voted for rap on the poll.. not even I and I'm defending it tooth and nail. So that must say something. I voted for the pi thing.)

fugibo

Pi ^ 3 is Pi, but with more Pi, and then with even more Pi

RoseSkye

May 04, 2009, 09:50:31 pm #60 Last Edit: May 04, 2009, 09:52:33 pm by RoseSkye
Quote from: Bug Catcher MetaKnight on May 04, 2009, 08:31:19 pm
I love how rose has a huge e-penis. How long have you been growing your e-penis rose?
Whenever he can force his e-penis down throats he'll show us who's boss. All hail Rose's e-penis.
Even if we can't agree I will marvel at such a display of sweaty e-balls  as he tea bags me everytime I put my foot in my mouth. Damn Rose, why are you so awesome.


Since you were born.. skipper. I'm so awesome just because I have something called a huge ego. Now you may ask if my ego get in the way of making friends.. and I say.. I don't have any friends irl.  However, whenever I feel down about being so lonely I'll screw someones mom.

Spoiler: ShowHide
ask your mother about my e-penis


Quote from: MetaKnight .. again
Stop making this thread perverted ;(


Okay, I'll stop making this thread perverted if you stop making this thread stupid and one sided... GO!

You lose.

Spoiler: ShowHide
Penis


(I know I said I'll stop doing this ... but its so harrrd.)

fugibo