How you know when your country sucks

Started by fugibo, May 17, 2009, 08:47:21 pm

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winkio

Wait, we colonized our states, and even when we acquired Texas and the Southwest, which we made anyone who wanted to stay there a dual citizen in the US.  Canada wants to be a separate country, and the US is fine with that.

Turkey would be like the Hawaii of EU - completely different culture, yet able to contribute and benefit so much.  And yes, I know the background of how Hawaii became a state, oppression and all.  Which is why it's great that Turkey WANTS to be a part, and not so great that after 50 years they still aren't in.

Blizz, you should know the difference between identical and unique.  After all, you have been working with game content for quite a while.  Just because it's not unique doesn't make it identical, and just because it's not identical doesn't make it unique.  The US started it's own original, brand new, and revolutionary way of doing things geographically, economically, and politically.  That's something to be proud of.

RoseSkye

October 12, 2009, 12:07:45 pm #121 Last Edit: October 12, 2009, 12:20:01 pm by RoseSkye
QuoteThis sounds like one of the most racist statements I've ever heard

Which is why he annoys me alot. I don't think he's racist, I just think he doesn't know how to seperate bad seeds from good ones. Its like if a girl kicked me in the testicles and then I turn around say "Well, all women kick you in the balls because this one girl did it"

QuoteYou think you are saying something. THAT'S TOO MANY LANGUAGES, NOBODY WILL UNDERSTAND EACH OTHER. *Facepalms* You're sick XD
So there!


It was a trap I laid. When someone says something that as a retort I would say...
"You can have diversity without unity? Nawwww."



@ Winkio

Quote
The Indians happened a while ago.  It does not define our society today, just like black slavery does not define our society today.  I could give you great detail on all the bad shit that still goes on with the Indians, like the uranium mining, the economic and social barriers we set up, and much more.  But Indians can and will continue to integrate and help be a part of the American society.




You activated my trap card!

By your definition if you say that it happened awhile ago.. you will also have to admit that the holocaust does not define Germany's society today. Guess where Germany is located? Oh? You have negated this statement? Okay.

QuoteWe never have mass genocides.[/i]  


Since we didn't have a mass genocide no country ever had a mass genocide.

Now since I don't have to back up my statement (and I'm sure you'll say .. "No wait, I didn't mean that even though I said it") I'll move on to the others.

QuoteI'm not saying what happens in the US is okay, but compared to Europe, we are doing a lot better.  The only prominent organized hate group is the KKK, which is declining, and there are good relations between different races, sexualities, etc. in many parts of the US.  We have laws against hate crimes, while some European countries don't.


*1. The following states also have statutes criminalizing interference with religious worship: AR, CA, DC, FL, ID, MD, MA, MI, MN, MS, MO, NV, NM, NY, NC, OK, RI, SC, SD, TN, VA,
WV.
*2. "Other" includes political affiliation (CA, DC, IA, LA, WV), age (CA, DC, FL, IA, HI, KS, LA, ME, MN, NE, NM, NY, VT), and transgender/gender identity (CA, CO, CT, DC, HI, MD,
MN, MO, NJ, NM, OR, VT).
*3. States with data collection statutes which include sexual orientation are AZ, CA, CT, DC, FL, HI, IL, IA, MD, MI, MN, NV, NM, OR, TX and WA; those which include gender are AZ, CA,
DC, HI, IL, IA, MI, MN, NJ, RI, TX, and WA.
*4. Some other states have administrative regulations mandating such training.

(http://www.adl.org/99hatecrime/state_hate_crime_laws.pdf)

Since some European countries don't have laws against hate crimes while some do I guess I'll hold the same standard to the United States. Ignoring the reason the hate crime laws exists in the first place I'll play your game. Thirty states have hate crime legislation .. meaning "some" US states have hate crime laws and some don't..

Using your argument that would negate that statement as well since the country as a whole doesn't have it.
 If you would like to know the truth about hate crime laws I suggest you read up on things before you open your mouth. Seems like the world is more open than you think. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_crime

Also seems like Canada is kicking our ass.
"Canada is believed to have more hate crime legislation forbidding certain ideas from being promulgated than any other country in the world."

In conclusion, US has bad shit.. Other countries have bad shit.. Life has bad shit.. so tough shit. I am not religious at all but I believe the bible has a fitting quote for this situation. "He without sin, cast the first stone"
Seeing as the U.S. has quite a few skeletons in our closet, do you really want to expose them by throwing hangers at other countries?

Seeing as what you're saying is solely based on your personal opinion and what I'm saying I back up everytime.. do you really want to continue winkio?

winkio

You activated my "Your logic fails" card. 


I said the Indian wars don't define our society.  Other previous events DO define our society, and other societies as well.

The federal law has legislation that deals with race.  State laws are supplementary.  I still don't know why you think hate crimes are the only thing that matters.  They are mostly irrelevant.

Canada is interesting because they have a less diverse population but stricter diversity laws.  They see stuff happening down south, and then tend to overcompensate, which is probably a good thing.


Your trap caught leaves and twigs.  You must spend another night in the forest eating berries and nuts.  Try again tomorrow!

RoseSkye

October 12, 2009, 12:21:56 pm #123 Last Edit: October 12, 2009, 12:25:24 pm by RoseSkye
Quote from: winkio on October 12, 2009, 12:18:52 pm
You activated my "Your logic fails" card.  


I said the Indian wars don't define our society.  Other previous events DO define our society, and other societies as well.

The federal law has legislation that deals with race.  State laws are supplementary.  I still don't know why you think hate crimes are the only thing that matters.  They are mostly irrelevant.

Canada is interesting because they have a less diverse population but stricter diversity laws.  They see stuff happening down south, and then tend to overcompensate, which is probably a good thing.



Your trap caught leaves and twigs.  You must spend another night in the forest eating berries and nuts.  Try again tomorrow!



QuoteI'm not saying what happens in the US is okay, but compared to Europe, we are doing a lot better.  The only prominent organized hate group is the KKK, which is declining, and there are good relations between different races, sexualities, etc. in many parts of the US.  We have laws against hate crimes, while some European countries don't.

QuoteThe Indians happened a while ago.  It does not define our society today, just like black slavery does not define our society today.  I could give you great detail on all the bad shit that still goes on with the Indians, like the uranium mining, the economic and social barriers we set up, and much more.  But Indians can and will continue to integrate and help be a part of the American society.

QuoteWe never have mass genocides

QuoteWe have 50 states that can put aside their differences and work towards a common goal.  We have a society where people of all races (even Indians) can be found from the lowest to the highest level of society.  We have tons of different industries that are all regulated by the same government.  And citizens can easily travel from state to state without worrying about anything.  Diversity and unity is more than just races and hate crimes.  Learn it.


I call bull shit and constant conflict between "points"

winkio

October 12, 2009, 12:24:51 pm #124 Last Edit: October 12, 2009, 12:26:52 pm by winkio
I'm not seeing it.  Those two sets of points go perfectly well together.

winkio

October 12, 2009, 12:38:27 pm #125 Last Edit: October 12, 2009, 12:42:33 pm by winkio
"We never have mass genocides"

Name a contemporary example that happened in the US.  Have is present tense.

"The Indians happened a while ago.  It does not define our society today."

Right I am referring to the Indian Wars here during the days of westward expansion.  Now that we are no longer expanding, this piece of history is not as defining.

"We have a society where people of all races (even Indians) can be found from the lowest to the highest level of society."

This backs up my last quote, because now we have Indian congressmen and such, which shows that we have more unity and integration than 100-200 years ago.

I'll just re-edit this when you re-edit yours.


My baseline message:

What are you trying to do?  Proving me wrong is more trouble than it's worth, and in the end, will be of no consequence to the argument.  Why?  Because my argument has consisted of vague statements and particular examples.  The only way you are going to disprove that is by going way, way off topic, at which point it won't even matter anyways.  So instead of trying to prove me wrong, just think about what I'm saying.  You don't have to agree with it, but you can still think about it.

Magus

Quote from: RoseSkye on October 12, 2009, 12:07:45 pm
QuoteThis sounds like one of the most racist statements I've ever heard

Which is why he annoys me alot. I don't think he's racist, I just think he doesn't know how to seperate bad seeds from good ones. Its like if a girl kicked me in the testicles and then I turn around say "Well, all women kick you in the balls because this one girl did it"

QuoteYou think you are saying something. THAT'S TOO MANY LANGUAGES, NOBODY WILL UNDERSTAND EACH OTHER. *Facepalms* You're sick XD
So there!


It was a trap I laid. When someone says something that as a retort I would say...
"You can have diversity without unity? Nawwww."



@ Winkio

Quote
The Indians happened a while ago.  It does not define our society today, just like black slavery does not define our society today.  I could give you great detail on all the bad shit that still goes on with the Indians, like the uranium mining, the economic and social barriers we set up, and much more.  But Indians can and will continue to integrate and help be a part of the American society.




You activated my trap card!

By your definition if you say that it happened awhile ago.. you will also have to admit that the holocaust does not define Germany's society today. Guess where Germany is located? Oh? You have negated this statement? Okay.

QuoteWe never have mass genocides.[/i]  


Since we didn't have a mass genocide no country ever had a mass genocide.

Now since I don't have to back up my statement (and I'm sure you'll say .. "No wait, I didn't mean that even though I said it") I'll move on to the others.

QuoteI'm not saying what happens in the US is okay, but compared to Europe, we are doing a lot better.  The only prominent organized hate group is the KKK, which is declining, and there are good relations between different races, sexualities, etc. in many parts of the US.  We have laws against hate crimes, while some European countries don't.


*1. The following states also have statutes criminalizing interference with religious worship: AR, CA, DC, FL, ID, MD, MA, MI, MN, MS, MO, NV, NM, NY, NC, OK, RI, SC, SD, TN, VA,
WV.
*2. "Other" includes political affiliation (CA, DC, IA, LA, WV), age (CA, DC, FL, IA, HI, KS, LA, ME, MN, NE, NM, NY, VT), and transgender/gender identity (CA, CO, CT, DC, HI, MD,
MN, MO, NJ, NM, OR, VT).
*3. States with data collection statutes which include sexual orientation are AZ, CA, CT, DC, FL, HI, IL, IA, MD, MI, MN, NV, NM, OR, TX and WA; those which include gender are AZ, CA,
DC, HI, IL, IA, MI, MN, NJ, RI, TX, and WA.
*4. Some other states have administrative regulations mandating such training.

(http://www.adl.org/99hatecrime/state_hate_crime_laws.pdf)

Since some European countries don't have laws against hate crimes while some do I guess I'll hold the same standard to the United States. Ignoring the reason the hate crime laws exists in the first place I'll play your game. Thirty states have hate crime legislation .. meaning "some" US states have hate crime laws and some don't..

Using your argument that would negate that statement as well since the country as a whole doesn't have it.
 If you would like to know the truth about hate crime laws I suggest you read up on things before you open your mouth. Seems like the world is more open than you think. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_crime

Also seems like Canada is kicking our ass.
"Canada is believed to have more hate crime legislation forbidding certain ideas from being promulgated than any other country in the world."

In conclusion, US has bad shit.. Other countries have bad shit.. Life has bad shit.. so tough shit. I am not religious at all but I believe the bible has a fitting quote for this situation. "He without sin, cast the first stone"
Seeing as the U.S. has quite a few skeletons in our closet, do you really want to expose them by throwing hangers at other countries?

Seeing as what you're saying is solely based on your personal opinion and what I'm saying I back up everytime.. do you really want to continue winkio?


a trap eh? Also what up with the Yugioh posts plol. Anyway, yeah. It's very important to seperate those seeds or it will make it look like you're saying something to a mass amount of people.
LEVEL ME DOWN. THE ANTI-BLIZZ GROUP IS AMONG YOU... Do it for the chick below...She watches..<br />

fugibo

Quote from: Blizzard on October 12, 2009, 11:10:29 am
Then why isn't Canada a U.S. state? I don't remember Canada having a low GDP.
Don't preach to me, the U.S. doesn't take anybody who just asks either.


Canada hasn't even asked. They want to remain separate.

RoseSkye

October 12, 2009, 12:48:44 pm #128 Last Edit: October 12, 2009, 01:12:52 pm by RoseSkye
First you say :
QuoteWe never have mass genocides


and then when I bring up one you say ..

Then you say :
QuoteThe Indians happened a while ago.  It does not define our society today

..
QuoteWe have a society where people of all races (even Indians) can be found from the lowest to the highest level of society.


(Do you fucking know that there are races of indians that are extinct now? If thats not Genocide *then you are an idiot)



First you say
QuoteWe have 50 states that can put aside their differences and work towards a common goal.


... I'm not even going to bring up examples that counter this. We can't even pass a health care bill and you're living in some sort of fantasy world where we are working towards a common goal. The republicans in general are caught on making sure nothing happens and we're "Working towards a common goal"

Fuck that winkio, and fuck whatever you change this statement into.



First you say :
QuoteThe only prominent organized hate group is the KKK, which is declining, and there are good relations between different races, sexualities, etc. in many parts of the US.


I say :
No.. that's not true. Many, many domestic terrorist organizations exists even today.

Then you say:
QuoteMention organized hate groups to the average American.  KKK will be the first, and perhaps the only one they come up with.


(I could have sworn that Bush and Obama did something to keep tabs on RADICAL FAR LEFT/ RIGHT WAR VETERANS THAT RETURNED MENTALLY UNBALANCED.. what do you call the organizations they joined or were feared in joining.. parties? I could have went with a tea party joke.. but nah..)



.. I'm sick of this.. I'm fucking sick of you changing what you say every two seconds when I bring up something that counters a "point" you made. Get your shit together or  shut up. I'm serious. Its like arguing with a creationist when I call bullshit on one thing you bring up another and then you change what you said. I can't keep up with all the bullshit I have to prove wrong. Winkio, keep up with FUCKING reality. Stop saying shit without researching.  Damn, I like you but this in general is pissing me off.

Stop steering this into a racial thing as well. You know damned well I am not just talking about racial separation, I'm talking about separation in general. . if you're caught up in being politically correct in this conversation you have already lost.

Blizzard

October 12, 2009, 01:17:35 pm #129 Last Edit: October 12, 2009, 01:20:51 pm by Blizzard
Quote from: winkio on October 12, 2009, 11:26:10 am
Wait, we colonized our states, and even when we acquired Texas and the Southwest, which we made anyone who wanted to stay there a dual citizen in the US.  Canada wants to be a separate country, and the US is fine with that.

Turkey would be like the Hawaii of EU - completely different culture, yet able to contribute and benefit so much.  And yes, I know the background of how Hawaii became a state, oppression and all.  Which is why it's great that Turkey WANTS to be a part, and not so great that after 50 years they still aren't in.

Blizz, you should know the difference between identical and unique.  After all, you have been working with game content for quite a while.  Just because it's not unique doesn't make it identical, and just because it's not identical doesn't make it unique.  The US started it's own original, brand new, and revolutionary way of doing things geographically, economically, and politically.  That's something to be proud of.


No problem, that's why I'm asking. It wasn't so clear to me what you meant from your earlier post.

Quote from: Longfellow on October 12, 2009, 12:46:49 pm
Quote from: Blizzard on October 12, 2009, 11:10:29 am
Then why isn't Canada a U.S. state? I don't remember Canada having a low GDP.
Don't preach to me, the U.S. doesn't take anybody who just asks either.


Canada hasn't even asked. They want to remain separate.


I didn't say that Canada has asked. I said that the U.S. haven't accepted everybody who's asked so far, that was my point (hence the newline before the taking-asking statement).

@all: No mass genocides? Nagasaki/Hiroshima anyone? :/
Also, this topic is getting a bit out of hand. I'm moving it into ID since the intelligence in this topic overwhelms the chat part and because in ID there are stricter rules. There's no need to split the topic or delete any posts before this one.
Check out Daygames and our games:

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Quote from: winkioI do not speak to bricks, either as individuals or in wall form.

Quote from: Barney StinsonWhen I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

RoseSkye

I would have said that as well but.. I wanted to make sure I gave an example of a genocide that happened in America. I figured winkio would have said "That was war, that didn't count" even though innocent citizens were murdered in the explosion.

fugibo

Quote from: Blizzard on October 12, 2009, 01:17:35 pm
Quote from: Longfellow on October 12, 2009, 12:46:49 pm
Quote from: Blizzard on October 12, 2009, 11:10:29 am
Then why isn't Canada a U.S. state? I don't remember Canada having a low GDP.
Don't preach to me, the U.S. doesn't take anybody who just asks either.


Canada hasn't even asked. They want to remain separate.


I didn't say that Canada has asked. I said that the U.S. haven't accepted everybody who's asked so far, that was my point (hence the newline before the taking-asking statement).

@all: No mass genocides? Nagasaki/Hiroshima anyone? :/
Also, this topic is getting a bit out of hand. I'm moving it into ID since the intelligence in this topic overwhelms the chat part and because in ID there are stricter rules. There's no need to split the topic or delete any posts before this one.


The only instance I can think of us refusing is with Texas, and there were serious political reasons behind that.

Plus, the US is not the same as the EU - the EU is a tight group of individual sovereignties, whereas the United States is one country composed of individual "districts" with some power within their own borders. We are much, much more unified than the EU and admitting more groups to the Union is a much, much bigger deal.

Blizzard

I never said it wasn't that way and I never said the U.S. and the E.U. are the same. I did say that the E.U. is going towards something like the U.S., but it still won't be the same. One of the biggest differences is probably that the E.U. would never, never go to war with Iraq, especially not out of economic reasons.
Check out Daygames and our games:

King of Booze 2      King of Booze: Never Ever
Drinking Game for Android      Never have I ever for Android
Drinking Game for iOS      Never have I ever for iOS


Quote from: winkioI do not speak to bricks, either as individuals or in wall form.

Quote from: Barney StinsonWhen I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

Magus

Quote from: Blizzard on October 12, 2009, 01:35:02 pm
I never said it wasn't that way and I never said the U.S. and the E.U. are the same. I did say that the E.U. is going towards something like the U.S., but it still won't be the same. One of the biggest differences is probably that the E.U. would never, never go to war with Iraq, especially not out of economic reasons.


US shouldn't have went to war with Iraq. We're still pissed at bush for doing that. Seriously, I never thought I would war would break out when I was alive. I though it was an 1800's thing (not counting the gulf war in 1990 *not sure if that's correct* Plus I was born in 1990)

Anyway.... I really don't have much to say... I think this thread is starting to learn into a hate-fest. Or an arguement... but that's my opinion.
LEVEL ME DOWN. THE ANTI-BLIZZ GROUP IS AMONG YOU... Do it for the chick below...She watches..<br />

RoseSkye


Since I don't want to argue anymore.. I'll end this here with a checkmate. Everything I said was right and you have just fallen into the biggest trap I've ever sewn. As I said before U.S = diverse.


Unity: absence of diversity; unvaried or uniform character.
Diversity: the state or fact of being diverse; difference; unlikeness.



diverse != unity and unity != diverse

The conflict of opinion will is the result of Americas freedom and diversity.. and since your whole argument is based on Diversity and Unity.. your foundation has just been toppled and I am the victor.


QuoteYes America is more diverse than  Europe. I always agreed with you when it came to that. However, it was always the unity part that annoyed me.


I'm sorry, when I'm doing stuff like this I don't like to just win. I like to crush peoples arguments. Everything you've said and I've quoted has been supporting my argument all along. Where there is diversity, there can't be unity.. period.

winkio

October 12, 2009, 01:44:34 pm #135 Last Edit: October 12, 2009, 01:47:40 pm by winkio
Spoiler: ShowHide
I've had a history class Rose, I know about the Indians, mkay?  We fought the Indians, the Indians fought us.  We tactically always pushed them to make the first move.  We treated it like a military engagement, not an extermination.  Besides that, I am correct in stating that the US has not has a mass genocide within the last 20 years (I said have, signifying the present tense, meaning contemporary).  I am also correct in my assessment that Indians are integrating into all levels of American society.


We have 50 states that can put aside their differences and work towards a common goal:

The 50 states make decisions together.  Majority may rule, but every state is a part of the process.  There are lots of examples where the states have worked together very little and there are lots of examples where the states actually have banded together to accomplish something.  I was saying that the states can and do band together, not that they never disagree.


I agree that there are many domestic terrorist groups, and just solo terrorists in general.  Nevertheless, KKK is the posterchild of the American hate groups.


Hiroshima and Nagasaki had many motivations, none of which were racial.  The US wanted:
1.  To win the war before the Russians did, as they were going to start a land invasion of Japan in a few weeks.
2.  To demonstrate our new power.  Bigger stick is better.
3.  Yeah, they were military targets, but hitting the military parts of those cities with an a-bomb is like spraying one leaf on a tree with a hose sprayer.  This is probably the weakest argument.
4.  To come out of the war as international leaders.  The US was kinda a big deal after WWI, but then was dismissed after we didn't join the League of Nations.  After WWII, we were at the top.


RoseSkye, you are obsessed with iff (if and only if).  If I say "if a then b", it does not mean "if not a, then not b" or "if b then a" or "if not b then not a".  all that would be true if I said "a iff b".  I don't think I've done that yet.  Also, I've been saying vague statements.  You can't solidify your interpretation on a whim.  It's a way of arguing with your opinion that avoids nitpicking little arguments like this one.  You can't beat drawings with numbers.

this statement is true:
"Where there is diversity, there can't be unity"
but this is also true:
"Where there is diversity, there is also unity"

The difference?  Different aspects of unity.  You toppled your argument, which was completely unrelated to mine.  Good job.

fugibo

Quote from: Nawm on October 12, 2009, 01:39:50 pm
US shouldn't have went to war with Iraq.
[/size]


Quote from: Nawm on October 12, 2009, 01:39:50 pm
but that's my opinion.


Does not compute.

Also, nice grammar. Sure proves your "I go to college and write books, so I'm supersmart lol!" theory.

RoseSkye

October 12, 2009, 01:47:11 pm #137 Last Edit: October 12, 2009, 01:48:51 pm by RoseSkye
You don't come to a debate with vague statements, and you don't try to convince people of "facts" with half assed ones. There is no way you can counter a literal definition.

winkio

I was trying to prove that the US had SOMETHING to be proud of.  Nothing else.  I did this by offering different statements to think about.  You are the one that warped it into some crazed debate thing.  I wasn't convincing people of facts, I getting people to understand my position.

fugibo

Quote from: winkio on October 12, 2009, 01:50:08 pm
I was trying to prove that the US had SOMETHING to be proud of.  Nothing else.  I did this by offering different statements to think about.  You are the one that warped it into some crazed debate thing.  I wasn't convincing people of facts, I getting people to understand my position.


And we do - it tooks us less than 200 years to attain more power than almost every other nation in history, while it took said nation hundreds more to attain theirs.