ABS or SV?

[[Faint]]

I really can't decide if I want to use Blizz-ABS or Sideview. I love the ABS but I am a fan of turn based RPG's.

Could anyone give me so pro's to Sideview battle system and possibly suggest a good Sidview battler script/ battle system?

[legacyblade]

pros of sideveiw:

• easier than ABS


• less ugly and boring than front view


• less work on the spriters


• easier for people with no reflexes, who want to think for a few hours between each move


• you can have fancy effects that wouldn't work as well in ABS (long animation sequences that make seeing the screen almost impossible. These are just annoying in an ABS )

Pros of ABS

• Just awesome


• More realistic


• Keeps people awake during battles


• Lets skill and reflex rather than hard stats determine how well one will do in battle (though the hard stats play a role)


• More people would want to play


• more unique features to give your game publicity (most use side view, less use ABS)

[[Faint]]

alright, I will stick with the ABS most likely. just trying to decide what is best for my style of sprites.

[Calintz]

I don't agree with a lot of those pros and cons. O_o.

[[Faint]]

Can I get your input?

[Blizzard]

SV is not a battle system, it's a battle system perpective. You must be meaning turn based or RTAB.

[Calintz]

Well, Legacy says ...

pros SVBS:
1. easier than the ABS (maybe)
2. more appealing than a frontview (depends)
3. less work on the spriters ... (honestly?)
4. easier for people without reflexes (yes)
5. fancy effects (perhaps)

pros ABS:
1. just awesome (great advice :v:)
2. more realistic (i'll give this one to you)
3. keeps people awake (I don't know anyone who played FF falling asleep in mid-battle O_o)
4. more people would want to play (tune in below for this one)
5. more publicity!! (LMAO)

Okay ...
A SVBS is most definitely more appealing than the default front view in RPGXP, but any SVBS can be modified to give the battle a frontview feel with increased aesthetics. My personal opinion tells me that SVBS are more appealing than ABSs as well, simply because there is greater level of detail in all of the spriting, which brings me to the next point. EASIER on the spriters!?!? Are you mad!!??

Please explain how spriting a character twice the size of the standard RTP charaset is easier. Not to mention equipping them with weapons and merging the two together throughout all their animations, rather than just creating a spriteset of rotating icons. I don't really want to take all the time to get into this, but in a good SVBS, each character should have roughly 10-15 poses. ABSs for RPGXP don't have this many. Nowhere near this many!! Creating 2-3poses for a character in a SVBS is almost the same amount of work to create a fully animated ABS fighter. The sheer level of detail is the deciding factor in this argument. Depending on how many heroes and enemies are in your game ... I can't stand behind that statement, I'm sorry Legacy. I am shocked that's coming from a spriter!!

Like I said earlier, I have never felt SVBS are boring. If they were, they wouldn't sell ...
Let's the skill determine. Skill of what?? Pushing buttons on a keyboard!? If you ask me, I would rather select options and use my brain to maneuver strategic plans, than run around and mash buttons on a keyboard, not to mention how many keys are customizable in ABSs. Some may find this positive, but to me, it's just a hassle to try to keep track of all the shit.

More people want to play ... fail.
More publicity ... IDK. Final Fantasy has great publicity and always used SVBS style until very recently.

Generally, if your looking for a PC game, I would say SVBS all the way, but if it is on a console, then ABS.

[[Faint]]

Could you suggest a good side view system please? I would love to test it out.

[Aqua]

@Cal:
When he said less work for spriters, LB meant different sprites for each action and subaction.
Like sword would look different than bow & a slash skill would look different than a spell.

[Calintz]

I don't follow Aqua.

@Faint:
I would recommend either Minkoff's Animated Battlers, or Enu's SVBS Tankentai XP.

[legacyblade]

On the sprites, it's easier because you sprite everything from ONE angle. You don't have to figure out how to get it from all four. And honestly, doing some front veiw animations with an RTP sprite is annoying as heck. While getting the proper level of detail required for a sideview sprite is hard, the fact that they're so much larger makes them much easier to animate, since you have more space. Furthermore, most poses for spells and the like are MUCH easier in side view, though there are a few that are harder in this view. As a spriter, I'd rather draw an animation ONCE for each actor, not slave over each one 4 times, particulalrly due to the sheer NUMBER of poses I have to do for the ABS (10-15 poses sounds GREAT to me. You've almost convinced me to switch just to lower my work load ) Also, turn based battle systems generally either bore or annoy the crap out of me. I stopped playing FF7 because the high frequency of the annoying turn based battles got just too irritating.

As for the more publicity, if you have a nice looking ABS in your screen shot, and you pull it off well, that's a big draw to your game. Quintessence even benefits (in terms of drawing people in)from the fact that it's an ABS. And it's not really a very GOOD ABS, lol.

But for sidevews, aye, the one aqua suggested are the best.

[Calintz]

Legacy ... you do not have to sprite everything from one angle. I'm not. My characters are facing 3 / 4, and the enemies are too. That is two separate angles. 3 / 4 of the front, and 3 / 4 of the back. The battle system itself allows for this kind of customization, because a side view script is nothing more than an advanced graphics enhancement.

Front view characters 32 x 48 in the RTP style can only be annoying if you aren't used to the style ... O_o.

Yeah, 10-15 poses per character ... (40-60) for a party of 4, not to mention fully animated ...
You must be a god at spriting if you think that spriting a 32 x 48 character is easier than spriting a 128 x 96!! As for animating them, you can't simply slide 1pixel to the left, or slide 1pixel to the right to animate side view battlers. You have to rotate shoulders, and flex the knees to make them bob. Not to mention that when using a side view ALL the characters must be placed in different stances to add originality. Every character in an ABS for RMXP all have the same poses. No fun there ...

Umm ... Legacy,
if you have a nice side view in your game's screenshot, and you pull it off well, umm ... that's a big draw for your game too O_o.

Maybe it's just me, but I can't see how doing spell animations on a smaller scale is harder than doing them in high definition ... Then again, you never gave specifications, you just said they were ... O_o.

[legacyblade]

The reason I think larger sprites are easier is because it's easier to get in all the detail you need, as well as make the poses look decent. (the sliding things around one or two pixels on RTP sprites has always looked terrible to me, so I slave over the poses for awhile). And by one angle, I mean that you only have to draw it from a single angle. Just because it's showing part of the front and the back doesn't make it two separate angles, in my mind anyways. The thing that bothers me about spriting front view sprites is the sheer annoyance of making them do something as simple as moving their hand forward. Since you're at a bird's eye view, making it bigger (moving it "towards the camera") just is making them reach up slightly into the sky. It's our only real option, but it bugs the crap out of me how limited a front view is.

And personally, if I saw a screenshot of a well done ABS vs an equally well done side view, I'd be more excited by the ABS. All the D&D makes me dread boring turn based battles

[Magus]

TBQH, side-view battles bored me to death

[Calintz]

Lol, well I suppose we have our own views. I don't agree with anything that you've said, but that's just me ...
Anyway, we both have spilled our input. Good luck Faint.

[RoseSkye]

Legacy ... you do not have to sprite everything from one angle. I'm not. My characters are facing 3 / 4, and the enemies are too. That is two separate angles. 3 / 4 of the front, and 3 / 4 of the back. The battle system itself allows for this kind of customization, because a side view script is nothing more than an advanced graphics enhancement.

Front view characters 32 x 48 in the RTP style can only be annoying if you aren't used to the style ... O_o.

Yeah, 10-15 poses per character ... (40-60) for a party of 4, not to mention fully animated ...
You must be a god at spriting if you think that spriting a 32 x 48 character is easier than spriting a 128 x 96!! As for animating them, you can't simply slide 1pixel to the left, or slide 1pixel to the right to animate side view battlers. You have to rotate shoulders, and flex the knees to make them bob. Not to mention that when using a side view ALL the characters must be placed in different stances to add originality. Every character in an ABS for RMXP all have the same poses. No fun there ...

Umm ... Legacy,
if you have a nice side view in your game's screenshot, and you pull it off well, umm ... that's a big draw for your game too O_o.

Maybe it's just me, but I can't see how doing spell animations on a smaller scale is harder than doing them in high definition ... Then again, you never gave specifications, you just said they were ... O_o.

Cal, coming from someone thats getting everything customized.. its more work. The ABS is  more work.. especially if you have a visual equipment script. You have to get EVERYTHING changed.

Running sprites, defending sprites, skill sprites, action sprites, item sprites, attack sprites, etc.. and since you can animate more than 4x4 frames it is definitely more of a task. We've been spending months doing sprites and such for the game and its so much of an hassle that we're hiring another spriter.

[Calintz]

I'll give that to you guys.
Creating ALL the resources for an ABS is more tedious and time consuming than creating ALL the resources for a SVBS, but the spriting itself is in no way "more difficult."

Spriting at a general higher level of detail IS NOT easier than spriting on a smaller scale. I don't care what anybody says about it. Creating ONE fully animated 128 x 96 battler sprite will take much more time and effort than creating ONE fully animated 32 x 48 character sprite.

With the ABS there is simply more graphics required. In no way does that make it harder, simply more tedious. There is a big difference.

[RoseSkye]

I'll give that to you guys.
Creating ALL the resources for an ABS is more tedious and time consuming than creating ALL the resources for a SVBS, but the spriting itself is in no way "more difficult."

Spriting at a general higher level of detail IS NOT easier than spriting on a smaller scale. I don't care what anybody says about it. Creating ONE fully animated 128 x 96 battler sprite will take much more time and effort than creating ONE fully animated 32 x 48 character sprite.

With the ABS there is simply more graphics required. In no way does that make it harder, simply more tedious. There is a big difference.

You've activated my trap card!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seBxiQKfRPw&feature=player_profilepage#


This was done by spriter, Southerland_Zero. She animated these sprites from scratch. Now she's doing it for Mid Autumn Garden which this style will be in ALL directions instead of just left and right. So tell me again how ABS sprites doesn't require more work than side battle sprites.. and be direct.

[Calintz]

@RoseSkye ...
I didn't say that ABSs don't require more work. I agreed that creating an ABS DOES require MORE work.
Please read my previous post once more. My stand point is that creating more detailed sprites is harder than creating standard RTP sprites. You will notice that 75% of the games in production using an ABS use RTP graphics, not high level sprites. That has been my argument all along.

The level of detail that the game's creator chooses to incorporate is solely up to them.
The simple fact that you've chosen to incorporate a style that is a derivative of a SVBS; I would have to say that you find the level of detail of a SVBS more aesthetically pleasing to one's eye than the average ABS. That alone says good things. Once more, not to mention that I NEVER said SVBS required more work. I said that the sprites are harder to build!!

I said, that completing ONE sideview battler is going to be more time consuming and more challenging than completing ONE standard RTP ABS battler. You are choosing to incorporate a higher level of spriting. While that WILL cause more work, it still does not make it harder.

P.S.
I will shun you if I don't see some of those battlers in your game for real.

[RoseSkye]

I said, that completing ONE sideview battler is going to be more time consuming and more challenging than completing ONE standard RTP ABS battler. You are choosing to incorporate a higher level of spriting. While that WILL cause more work, it still does not make it harder.

You have no idea what you just said, if you did.. you wouldn't have said it.

[Blizzard]

I have to agree with Rose here. How can 2 be more than 4?

[Jackolas]

think what Calintz means is that the speed of the side view is slower than an ABS
because it is slower (and works in turns) you can fit more graphics in a singe attack, like 5 sprites (since you won't get attacked back if something takes to long)
wile in an ABS the enemy attacks back while you attack and you can't add long attacks just because you get attacked all the time.

look at example.
In FF you have really fancy moves that take loads of time. but have really pretty and long graphics
In for example the legend of zelda you only have short quick moves because else you get beaten to shit before you even finished your attack.

still don't dare to say what looks better ore what takes longer. (I like both type of game plays)

[Blizzard]

I disagree. Blizz-ABS lets you create any number of frames. And you can always freeze game execution during an animation and put in as many frames as you want without any enemies interrupting.

[Jackolas]

treu... did not know you could freez babs and display pretty animations (and kinda turning it in a turn based 4way rpg)

also if you look at how i explained it. there is not really one winner what takes the most work/grafics/frames
it only depends on how much work you wane put in it and how you want the game play

[Calintz]

Listen ...
I'm looking at this from the sense that the person using the SVBS is creating some form of higher detailed sprites (If you don't use higher detailed sprites, then a SVBS just isn't very entertaining). I am also pretending that the person using the ABS is using standard charasets as a base (because 75% of people do[mainly because most people can't sprite at a high detail]).

Creating ONE fully animated side view battler will consist of 10-15poses with a bare minimum of four frames per pose(BARE MINIMUM). Do the math and you're looking at anything between 40-60 highly detailed sprites(BARE MINIMUM).

For me to create one frame of any pose on a very detailed scale, it takes me 2-3hours respectively(without edits). That is one frame out of four, again ... bare minimum. I can easily complete all four directions for the walking animation of any charaset in the same amount of time!!

In order for me to animate the side view battler by finishing the other 3frames, I am looking at another 4-6hours; totaling anywhere between 6-10hours for ONE POSE out of 10-15. THAT IS ONE POSE!!

I won't guarantee because I've never done one, but give me 10hours and I could probably do an entire ABS set ...

But add the other 9-14poses required for any side view battler and you're looking at some serious time consumption, not to mention the difficulty of spriting at a higher level throughout the entire process ...

** And even in Rose's case where he is having someone else do the higher level spriting, that doesn't make the task harder, simply more tedious, because more frames are required. And personally, I don't see that guy finishing too many sprites for your game.

[Jackolas]

like i sayed... its just about how much time you wanne put into it.

both the SVBS and the ABS can handle unlimited sprites on different quality.
so the question is just how much time you spend in it.

in general you use more different sprites in a SVBS
but you need to create 4 directions (if not 8 ) at a ABS

so I would say in general its the same time with the same quality and the same amount.
its all about what you wane do and how good you want it to look

[Blizzard]

treu... did not know you could freez babs and display pretty animations (and kinda turning it in a turn based 4way rpg)

You can't. But it's not like it's more than a 10 line edit.

@Calintz: Helloooooo? Have you seen the sprites Rose is using? They have the same level of detail as the SV sprites you're talking about.
You do the math between 40-60 same-level-of-detail-as-SV-sprites for an ABS that requires a 3 directions, not just the left/right direction(assuming left/right are the same). And you can't count "poses" as an argument because in a good ABS you need to do attack/defend/skill/etc poses as well. You're looking at the situation from a completely narrow-sighted angle of view. And, with all due respect, besides that's you're starting to act like an ass and completely ignoring any argument that is given to you.

[Jackolas]

anyone noticed that we are all saying that the system we use the most (and like the most) is more work, better grafics and is harder to be used etc.

They are both the same in how hard it is to create the grafics.
if you don't take any time to sprite than both would look like crap and take the same amount of graphics
if you take loads of time both would look great and also have about the same amount of graphics.
the different is just the way the graphics are used.

to get back to the topic. ABS or SV?

both are great systems and both are used by great games.
both can create great graphics and both take the same amount of time.\
its just the taste of what system YOU like the most.

[Subsonic_Noise]

@Calintz: Helloooooo?

hi.
[/offtopic]
I think noone can really say which battle system is the best, it really is about what system suits your game. I mean, when I began my current game (Endzeit), I used an FMBS, which is the battle system used in the "Tales of" series and which is one of the most awesome battle systems ever, but it didn't fit in at all, so I changed to BlizzABS (which is, of course, also awesome xD).
If you tell me a bit about your game, I could tell you what I think would be better.

[Calintz]

@Blizzard!!
I'm not ignoring your argument. I wasn't the one who said anything about directions in relation to poses. Everyone else did, which is why I resorted to poses. That was my defense, not my offense in this argument. The only argument I have been trying to make is that creating ABS sprites is not more difficult than creating SBVS sprites.

There is ONE member on this entire forum saying he'll be using highly detailed sprites with an ABS, and he isn't even doing the work himself ... O_o. Frankly, I don't think your friend will follow through to the end, because of the amount of work that will be involved due to the different directions at a high level. I will say again as I have like 5times now ... The ABS requires MORE WORK, but that doesn't make the graphics harder to create. If you're friend actually does pull through for you, it won't make your statement anymore true either. He is only matching the detail of any standard SVBS. The amount of work involved in creating something in relation to it's difficulty are two different things. I'm only trying to say that ABS sprites are not harder to make, and they aren't ...

P.S.
I think we should move this to spam.

[Blizzard]

Frankly, I don't think your friend will follow through to the end, because of the amount of work that will be involved due to the different directions at a high level.

Rose is not my friend, but in his defense, he already finished a few games.

I will say again as I have like 5times now ...

Is that as many times as you IMAGINED somebody said it was HARDER to create ABS sprites?

The ABS requires MORE WORK, but that doesn't make the graphics harder to create. If you're friend actually does pull through for you, it won't make your statement anymore true either. He is only matching the detail of any standard SVBS. The amount of work involved in creating something in relation to it's difficulty are two different things. I'm only trying to say that ABS sprites are not harder to make, and they aren't ...

Now read the entire topic again. NOBODY is claiming that it's HARDER to create sprites for an ABS. I really have no idea where you pull that argument from. The only person who said "hard" and "graphics" in the same sentence was LB who said that it's hard to decide which level of detail is suitable from the animation aspect of the sprites.

[RoseSkye]

The ABS requires MORE WORK, but that doesn't make the graphics harder to create.

Cal.. if you want to go that route. The majority of people who does anything in rpg maker rips sprites, scripts, systems, and resources. The only work they do is basically writing stuff in the editor and saying they should get some credit. So why should anyone listen to you when you don't know how much detail goes into anything let alone SV.

SZ did both Sideview and ABS, and the ABS was more work..
Mork work

Spoiler: ShowHide

There is ONE member on this entire forum saying he'll be using highly detailed sprites with an ABS, and he isn't even doing the work himself

How the fuck do you think they concept art is made? You think I'm not a spriter? You think I can't draw?
I am the one doing all of the concept work, you ignoramus. I'm also doing the storyline, and organizing my 23 person team. Don't say stuff without basis.

O_o. Frankly, I don't think your friend will follow through to the end, because of the amount of work that will be involved due to the different directions at a high level.

You know how old Legend of Harpine is? Five years old. I've been working in RMXP for 2 years.. once again, stop making assumptions. I'm not you. I have a reason to finish my projects no matter how long it takes.

[Fallen Angel X]

Frankly, I don't think your friend will follow through to the end, because of the amount of work that will be involved due to the different directions at a high level.

Yeah, that ain't cool Calintz. That's pretty much attacking Rose, which isn't very Calintz of you ._.

Both sideview and ABS have a shitload of possibilities. You can also create extremely detailed sprites for both of them, as shown by Rose and Calintz. You can argue graphics-wise, but I don't think that will really go anywhere. The more important arguement, is dependant on the game that the system is being applied to. For example, a game with the intention of continuous fighting will benefit from an ABS. This is due to the fact that in a SVBS, the battles would become horribly repetitive. In a game where there's considerably less battles, and focuses on strategy, and battles are a tad bit lengthier, SVBS, or TBS in general, would fit more appropriately. And, it's also a level of preference, as well. TBQH, I prefer TBS system over all, like TLoL :3. Mainly b/c my game is following a similar format xD

[Blizzard]

TLoL isn't using a TBS. O_o It's a simple turn-based system...

EDIT: Oh wait, TBS as in Turn-Based System. I thought you meant Tactical Battle System.

[Jackolas]

I'm working on a game with a SVBS

but that is more because I'm to scared to use BABS.

[Calintz]

@Blizzard:
I wasn't talking to you when I said "if your friend pulls through. I was talking to Rose and referring to his spriter.
My argument comes from Legacyblade's very first post. Under the pros he lists that SVBS are easier on the spriters (means the same as ABS is harder on the spriters).

@RoseSkye:
If you know me, then you would know that all of my material is 100% original.
Rip doesn't enter into a spriter's definition. That's what I am ... a spriter, and I'm good at it. So yes, I do know how much detail needs to be put into projects, and if you knew anything about me, I don't ask for credit unless whatever I am asking it for is 100% original AND 100% mine.

The real funny thing here ... is that you attacked me with false pretense. Blizz assumed (i'm not attacking you Blizz) when I said friend, that I was referring to you, when in fact, I was referring to the guy doing all of your sprites that you mentioned earlier ... SV or whatever. I never even meant to be arrogant or bring him down either; I simply stated a personal opinion ...

-sighs-
I really don't feel like arguing anymore though ... so I'm not gonna respond to the rest of your nasty little message, and I'm gonna get back on topic.

You guys win, okay. You can all celebrate your victory. ABS resource creation is more difficult ...

It seems as though I may have offended some people ...
To everyone except RoseSkye ...
I apologize ... sorry Rose, but you have a way of acting first and asking questions later, and in most cases ... that's not a problem, but everything that comes out of that orifice in your face is just one negative thing to the next ...

P.S.
I even congratulated you on your fully animated ABS sprite too ... geesh. You might wanna look into anger management.

@Jackolas: POWER TO YOU MAN ... POWER TO YOU!!

[legacyblade]

Alright, I'm just going to say one thing on why I find it easier to make a large sprite vs a small one: more space. You can have better looking poses, more detail, and it's easier to FIT all the detail in. There are a lot of details that I'm not sure how to cram in the RTP sprites that I can fit in larger ones. While I do prefer making all my sprites RTP since it takes more TIME to make larger sprites, I find that larger sprites are easier to make because I have more space to work in. for example, spriting a 60x60 character portrait is SO much easier than spriting the hair on an RTP sprite. It takes more time, but is much easier.

However, due to the amount of posing involved in animated sprite battle systems (ABS, SV, or whatever), it actually takes me a heck of a lot less time to do a side view battler's poses for a given move than it does to make the ABS battler's same moves. While side veiw sprites take more time (about 1.5 times as much), a single animation for a side view sprite is generally 4 frames of animation. Whereas a ABS animation is 4 frames for 3 different angles (the front, the side, the back). If you think of it mathematically where SV stands for the amount of time a single side view frame takes, RTP stands for the time a single RTP sprite frame takes, SVAnimation stands for the time a single animation of a side view takes, and ABSAnimation stands for the time a single RTP ABS animation takes....

RTP = 20 (I just gave it a number for the sake of argument. The time just depends on what kind of pose you're doing)

SV = RTP * 1.5

SVAnimation = SV * 4 (4 frames of animation)

ABSAnimation = RTP * 12 (12 frames of animation)

Now let's compare the results

SVAnimation = 120

ABSAnimation = 240

According to this, if it takes you almost twice as long to make a single frame of animation for a side view battler as a frame of RTP animation, it'll still take you twice as long to make a full RTP ABS battler's animation. Even if you make enough animations in a side view to be taking advantage of all the animations needed to use all of blizzABS' features (a charge animation for each skill, a skill animation for each skill, and the same with every weapon and item, as well as the running, sneaking, and jumping sprites), then you'd still spend only half the time making a complete side view battler.

Just my ten cents. And I'm customizing all the animations for myself in my own game using an ABS, so I DO know how long it takes to do these stinking animations (and so does blizz, as he's waiting on me to finish them )

[Calintz]

I agree ... just your ten cents.
It takes me much longer than 1.5 to do a side view battler. Then again, I sprite at 128 x 96 for them.

It may be because I'm so used to RTP, I can slam those animations out no problem, and because I don't do sideview battlers very often ... it takes me a long time.

I'm just tired of arguing over something so stupid, Lol ...
Even though I kind of started it. So to all except RoseSkye ... I apologize ...

I won't care what anybody says you know ...
the way my mind plays it out, things are more difficult if you do a sideview.

I mean, I only look at this from a spriter's view, because that's all that I am. I sprite, and do events ...

[legacyblade]

Ah, if you're fast at RTP animations, then that'd make sense. I'm just a perfectionist, so sometimes, due to the limited space, it actually takes me LONGER to do a single RTP pose than a single SV pose. But that's  because I'm used to animating in 3D and am frustrated by how difficult it is to get truely GOOD poses with a RTP sprite since you have such little room in which to make the sprite. This is greatly helped in SV sprites since you have more room, and they're at a 3/4 or side view, which is easier for me to pose than a front view.

[Calintz]

I can feel you there ...
I started with the RTP style, and mastered is first. I think that 's why. The side view is what I prefer, but I'm still relatively new to creating templates for it. I can see where animating something from front view would be more difficult, but all you really have to do is define the outline and scale limbs. If he is kicking from the front, then make his foot bigger to emphasize the motion.

In Rose's case, he left the foot the same size on his kick animation. The sprite look good, but there is no real emphasis on the foot, only the motion ...
http://forum.chaos-project.com/index.php?topic=4771.0

[RoseSkye]

@RoseSkye:
If you know me, then you would know that all of my material is 100% original.
Rip doesn't enter into a spriter's definition. That's what I am ... a spriter, and I'm good at it. So yes, I do know how much detail needs to be put into projects, and if you knew anything about me, I don't ask for credit unless whatever I am asking it for is 100% original AND 100% mine.

The real funny thing here ... is that you attacked me with false pretense. Blizz assumed (i'm not attacking you Blizz) when I said friend, that I was referring to you, when in fact, I was referring to the guy doing all of your sprites that you mentioned earlier ... SV or whatever. I never even meant to be arrogant or bring him down either; I simply stated a personal opinion ...

-sighs-
I really don't feel like arguing anymore though ... so I'm not gonna respond to the rest of your nasty little message, and I'm gonna get back on topic.

You guys win, okay. You can all celebrate your victory. ABS resource creation is more difficult ...

It seems as though I may have offended some people ...
To everyone except RoseSkye ...
I apologize ... sorry Rose, but you have a way of acting first and asking questions later, and in most cases ... that's not a problem, but everything that comes out of that orifice in your face is just one negative thing to the next ...



P.S.
I even congratulated you on your fully animated ABS sprite too ... geesh. You might wanna look into anger management.

@Jackolas: POWER TO YOU MAN ... POWER TO YOU!!

I was just about to say I was wrong, until I read that little 1pt size text.. you can go suck a dick.
Especially because you were the one that jumped to conclusions first. I mean here I was saying "Holy shit, maybe I was a bit too harsh on him.. and I was being a douchey hypocrite.. I'll apologize." Yet, no.. I don't feel a bit sorry for you. You lost and for good reason..

[Calintz]

Lol, I'm sorry Rose ...
I mean, you consider yourself a dick. You even boast about it, so why are you upset??

Nah, I'm not generally a mean person, but you just say mean things all the time ...
Again, I didn't make assumptions though Rose. I flipped out one opinion. I said I didn't think that SV would do all the spriting, but you guys shut me up on that when Blizz mentioned that you has some completed games. (Care to provide links)

I never said you weren't a spriter. I never said you couldn't draw buddy. I simply said you weren't doing the spriting yourself in this instance, because you're not ... =|. I never actually drew assumptions or made false claims ...

[RoseSkye]

Lol, I'm sorry Rose ...
I mean, you consider yourself a dick. You even boast about it, so why are you upset??

Nah, I'm not generally a mean person, but you just say mean things all the time ...
Again, I didn't make assumptions though Rose. I flipped out one opinion. I said I didn't think that SV would do all the spriting, but you guys shut me up on that when Blizz mentioned that you has some completed games. (Care to provide links)

I never said you weren't a spriter. I never said you couldn't draw buddy. I simply said you weren't doing the spriting yourself in this instance, because you're not ... =|. I never actually drew assumptions or made false claims ...

I had a bit of trolls remorse until I read that 1pt text. I felt sorry that I said those things until I read it. I am still a dick.. but I'm annoyed at myself for feeling sorry about what I said.

There is ONE member on this entire forum saying he'll be using highly detailed sprites with an ABS, and he isn't even doing the work himself

You were wrong I sprite in different styles, you assume that I haven't sprited a thing in that style.. SZ is better at spriting than I am.. so I use her sprites. The end. . but, I'm sick of talking about this. All of my old games I had uploaded I removed.

Mid Autumn Garden (Finished)
Mid Autumn Gaden: Remastered

Why do you think its called Mid Autumn Garden: Remastered? You think that I would make a remastered version of a game that didn't exist? Mid Autumn Garden was done already..

Goddess
Goddess on rpgmaker.net

Finished but removed... but it was before your time.

These two games are downloadable..

Blessed be the Lady and Malice the Taste of Freedom

I recomend you play Blessed be the Lady because its awesome.

[Calintz]

@Rose:
Firstly, I haven't been here for months man!! I just came back, and I've only been here for close to a week. You joined approximately at the same time I left. I left before you returned from your ban I do believe. I didn't do any research on you buddy. I didn't know that you had any games. All I knew is what you told me straightforward. SV was doing your sprites. Therefore, not even meaning to be an ass, I made that remark, simply stating the truth. I never flamed your past work. I wasn't anticipating your future works Rose. I was simply referring to your current project, and what you had just told me.

I will say ... that maybe I should have tried to be more clear, but at the time ... I was FIRED UP!!  

BTW:
I'll check that game out.

P.S. I got powered down ... LMAO!!
And you got powered up by like two points, and you were the mean one!! ROFL!!

[legacyblade]

I know that's what most people do with animations, Calintz. I'm just a perfectionist, and spend hours trying to get it to look how I want it (which is generally impossible with the size of the RTP template) And I must confess, I have little authority on this subject since I have no finished projects (though I'm almost done with chapter one of my game )

[Calintz]

I've never completed any games either, hell, I've never finished chapter one, because I could never get a battle system properly incorporated until now, Lol, but I still spent hours on end creating unique resources.

[RoseSkye]

I didn't know that you had any games. All I knew is what you told me straightforward. SV was doing your sprites. Therefore, not even meaning to be an ass, I made that remark, simply stating the truth. I never flamed your past work. I wasn't anticipating your future works Rose. I was simply referring to your current project, and what you had just told me

(Care to provide links)

That's why I posted the links.

[Calintz]

I know why you posted the links. I asked ...
I'll let you know what I think about it after a simple test play.

[legacyblade]

@calintz, ok, then we're in the same boat. I think the most depressing thing is when you realize that a handful of original resources that you spent HOURS on aren't even going to be needed anymore, since you redesigned the system. (and know that you're going to have to redo all of them since apparently you pillow shade like heck, lol)

[Calintz]

Lol, I know it ...
But depending on the particular resource, pillow shading can be very useful.

For example, charasets can be a product of pillow shading, because clothing is so free.
A rock on the other hand, with pre-defined ridges and definition ... just don't, Lol. Just don't ...

[legacyblade]

People say sprites like this one

Spoiler: ShowHide

are pillow shaded. And that they're not RTP style (I'm realizing that they do vary a bit in terms of proportion, which is something I'll fix next release ). Even the metal. Now I based the metal shading on fighter-04, so I thought it was pretty good. Is that an ok example of pillow shading? (this is  off topic, sorry)

[Aqua]

You guys sure love to post in this thread...
To tell you the truth, I haven't been following, but just to make sure this doesn't happen.

NO FIGHTING OR I'LL SLAP YOU ALL! >8I
<3

[Jackolas]

I wonder how this big discussion is gone help [Faint] to chose what system he can use?

[Calintz]

LMAO, I was discussing things with him, and I think he's chosen to go with a side-view.

@LegacyBlade:
The armor looks fine and dandy to me. I'm more concerned with his robe thingy hanging in front of his legs. That looks pillow shaded, but on a closer look, it doesn't. Maybe you should add more contrast between your swatches to darker each level. Small changes between swatches is the first stage of pillow shading.

But to answer your question ...
I would say yes, he's acceptable.

[Cid]

Personally, I enjoy turn-based battles in RPGs, which is why I've stuck with 'em in my project. Obviously there are benefits to real-time systems, and I can understand why many people are switching to Blizz ABS, but for now I'm happy with what I'm doing.

At the end of the day I think you should develop the sort of game that would appeal to you. Don't just do things to please other people or get your game noticed.

[Calintz]

Great answer Cid.

[legacyblade]

Aye. I switched to ABS because I'd rather play an ABS than a turn based.

[fugibo]

At the end of the day I think you should develop the sort of game that would appeal to you. Don't just do things to please other people or get your game noticed.

It depends on why you're making the game: if you're making it to please yourself, definitely do what you want. But if you're trying to make a game for a certain group, you're probably going to want to target that group's preferences over your own.

[legacyblade]

It's a balance you have to strike. If you're making a game to appeal to an audience that you're not a part of (like making a horror game when you hate them), it's not going to be very good. However, if you just make the game YOU want to play in every aspect, it won't appeal to very many people (unless you have very generic tastes ). Just think of what style of game you most enjoy, then gear your game towards the audience that enjoys such engines.

[shdwlink1993]

OK, I'm not reading this topic. I just noticed something about Rose and dicks and figured that some questions are just better left unanswered.

In all seriousness, I prefer Side-View battles to both ABS and DBS. I always kind of have liked it best. Of course, it depends on the game. If Zelda had anything other than what it has, I wouldn't like it as much.

[winkio]

In all honesty the best side view I've ever seen was in Super Mario RPG for the SNES.  I'd prefer that over ABS hands down, but ABS wins over every other battle system I've experienced thus far in RMXP.

[Blizzard]

I like turn based systems because they utilize tactic an strategy. RTAB is a mix between the two systems and an attempt to make turn based systems more dynamic and fueled with action. It was a success, lol! But I also like ABS-es. It's harder to make an ABS game that is really good than a turn-based game.

[GAX]

My whole thing about pros for Side-view...you get a little more feeling of depth for the characters in terms of the screen, you can actually see how big the characters are compared to a boss, and you can do some really neat shit compared to the DBS (I plan to EVENTUALLY convert CF to SVBS again, but not until either I can supply my own art or I find a person willing to sprite the sideviews, and get all my systems compatible with an SVBS, and possibly an RTAB or TTB (Timed-Turn Battle, look at Final Fantasy X, each action can affect the turn order).

ABS is neat in the fact in that you've gotta resist the urge to be "impulsive" and keep your cool under pressure, for one slip up and BAM, you die!  I usually like the ABS system in Action games (Castlevania being one of my all-time favorite series...I got addicted to Final Fantasy IV and Super Castlevania IV at the same time as a kid).

All in all it's a stand on what you're looking for...SVBS is more of a visual flare while ABS keeps players on their toes.