Thought Streams

Started by Blizzard, May 25, 2010, 03:28:39 pm

Previous topic - Next topic

Blizzard

Several years ago I have noticed something odd about the way people think. Well, at least it applies to me so I guess it applies to everybody else. Just recently I remembered that something and I wanted to type it down.

Now, in the mind of a human there seem to be 2 streams of thought.

One is based on language, we all think that way. When we think about something, we usually hear our own voice in our head having a monologue. That stream seems to be fully conscious and based on consciousness. It's also relatively slow.

The second stream is deeper, faster and not as conscious as the first one. This secondary stream of thought isn't even based on language. It works with images, sounds and emotions.

The secondary stream seems to be some kind of information processor. I noticed this stream one time when I was trying to relax and tried turning off my primary stream by simply concentrating and listening to my breathing. Suddenly my mind was flooded with many thoughts I had no direct control of. Those thoughts were based one images, sounds and emotions only. Of course sound can also be a voice or a spoken word, but mainly this stream seems non-linguistic or language independent.
Another thing I noticed with the secondary stream is that this is the one that keeps us awake at night sometimes. Usually this happens out of two reasons. The first is that when we are not tired, the processor keeps working at full speed and we can't fall asleep. The other one is the opposite. We are too tired and the processor is tirelessly working to process all the information gathered through the day. I like to call these phenomen underload and overload (it's not a general term, at least not that I know of).
In any case I think that during our sleep, the primary stream gets turned off. Only during a shallow dream that stream sometimes mixes with the secondary stream. We simply follow the logic of the world around us. We do not question it, we keep dreaming. Rarely people actually stop for a moment and when the primary stream splits off the secondary (it stops following the secondary stream, I'll get to that later), we realize that we're in a dream.

Everything written up to this point is there so you get the idea and I can continue to something else I noticed just recently. There seems to be a third stream. A few times in my life I was able to shut down my primary stream by focusing it processing capacity to observe the secondary stream. At one short moment I got hold of the secondary stream. I wasn't able to control it or anything like that but instead I probably disabled my primary stream fully. I was awake, but I was actually dreaming for a short moment. That didn't last very long, probably 0.1 - 0.2 seconds or something like that. But in that short moment, while the secondary stream was working its thing, I noticed something much deeper and faster. It was a third stream, below the second one. It was processing information so rapidly that I had the impression that I was "out" for one whole second rather than just a tenth second. And it was so deep and subconscious that it felt very far away.

Probably not much of this makes sense, but keep reading.

You all know what hypnosis is. It's a procedure to put the conscious mind into a state where it reacts very well to suggestions. If you remember how I explained the part when we dream and we actually don't realize it, you will notice the same pattern. Our conscious mind is controlled by suggestions and unless we consciously stop and say "WTF is going on here", we will continue to follow the suggestions and not ask questions. You will probably wonder what hypnosis has to do with all that. Well, I think that hypnosis is a way to slow down the primary stream in order to dock onto the secondary stream to switch information. This makes perfect sense as when we are relaxed and don't think about anything in particular, we become creative. The primary stream gets some stuff from the what goes through the secondary and we get ideas. The creative mind of the human is simply a random process accessing information currently flowing through our mind.
Now, not to go too much off the point here, I am talking about effective self-hypnosis. And I think that I have found a way to apply and use it. It works as quickly as in 10 seconds and there is no danger as the primary thought stream never gets really deep or deep enough to get you in danger in any way. I've realized that I've been doing this for years, but up to a few days ago, I wasn't aware of that. Here is how it works.

Simply stand down or sit down. If you have trouble focusing when your eyes are open, close them. I, personally, have gotten so good at this that I don't even have to close my eyes. Anyway, after you have closed your eyes (or not), try forcing your mind into a numb/fuzzy state just for a moment. This is relatively simple. Remember how your eyelids close and you eyes twitch around for a moment when you are really tired almost falling asleep? Your body is so used to this that when you do the twitching consciously, it will instantly interrupt your primary thought stream and it will feel a bit numb for a moment. It feels almost exactly the same as when you are about to fall asleep (except that it's much weaker). You can usually get this done in 5-10 seconds. When you stop doing that your primary thought stream needs a moment to "reboot" which puts you into a suggestive state of mind, probably a very weak trance. Here comes the fun part. If you don't let your primary stream "reboot" by itself, but rather suggest yourself something like "I feel good. I feel relaxed." first and then let it "reboot" (try taking a bit harsh and deep breath for that), you will notice that when returning to the fully conscious level, you will actually feel a bit better and a more relaxed. Let me phrase it like this: You just put a break point in your program, manually modified a variable or two and let the program continue. The best part is that it takes just a few seconds.

You will probably notice that it doesn't work always or not even often. There's something else. While you still think about the change of the state of mind, it has trouble happening as you are consciously blocking it. What I personally noticed was that as soon as I get my mind off my own state-of-mind altering (even if it's just another 5 or 10 seconds) by thinking about something else, when I return to think about if it worked, I realize that it did. Usually the switching happens by itself. Here's an example:
I'm sitting in a bus and I'm looking out of the window. I feel a bit tense and try the state-of-mind altering to help myself relax. When I'm done, nothing's changed. I wonder why it didn't work for 15, maybe 20 seconds and at one point I start thinking about something like what I'm going to cook for dinner. Half a minute later I remember that I did the state-of-mind altering just a moment ago and that I feel better now.

I think what happened was that the primary thought stream can't react that quickly to stimulations from the secondary stream. As soon as the secondary stream reacted to the suggestion for change of the state of mind, it interrupted the primary stream, implanted a new topic for the stream (like cooking) and let it work again. The fact that I continued thinking about cooking all of the sudden and it felt a bit weird (like thinking about something intensly, like in a dream) pretty much proves this theory.

Of course, all of this might be only happening to me since I've been doing it unconsciously for years. You might have troubles getting your mind a bit fuzzy or fuzzy enough for manipulating your own state of mind. This might be a better version of what they call "reframe the situation".

I think this is what meditation and trance are all about. You don't have to get deep into meditation or trance to make a difference. You can manipulate your own mind for the better. Keep in mind that it's difficult to do this to put your mind into a worse state than before. It's possible and you can do it, but it's more difficult. And who would want that anyway? #_#
Check out Daygames and our games:

King of Booze 2      King of Booze: Never Ever
Drinking Game for Android      Never have I ever for Android
Drinking Game for iOS      Never have I ever for iOS


Quote from: winkioI do not speak to bricks, either as individuals or in wall form.

Quote from: Barney StinsonWhen I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

Vell

I'm pretty sure I get what you're saying. I nearly always think in the secondary stream first, and then try to translate it into the primary, so that I can put words and translatable ideas to people since I can't just do 'information dump, this is what I mean.' Interestingly enough, however, I think the tertiary stream you defined is the unconscious mind - the rest of the whatever percentage of your brain that you never use. Of course it's going to be ungodly fast. It's like having several terabytes of RAM and space, and only using 5% of it, and then you use the full 100% for a mere moment and shit happens like woahwtf.

Fantasist

Ah, very interesting topic after a long time!

You used the terms underload and overload. When I discussed something like this with my friend, he termed it as "the brain's defragmentation process". Well, it's not exactly putting things in order, but when we have completely new and creative dreams, it's evidence of the brain trying to put fragments of information into context. This is why the most irrelevant and remote things are linked in dreams.

QuoteKeep in mind that it's difficult to do this to put your mind into a worse state than before. It's possible and you can do it, but it's more difficult. And who would want that anyway? #_#

Is it more difficult? I personally feel it's easier, but the problem is that we inherently avoid putting strain on the mind.
OK, I have a variation of this. What about heightened information processing? A short boost of awareness? Like an adrenaline rush, of sorts. Is there a way one can tune the mind to greatly decrease reaction time and increase processing capability?

QuoteI nearly always think in the secondary stream first, and then try to translate it into the primary

Lucky you. I've completely lost touch with my secondary consciousness ;_; When I first came here, I was like you.

PS:
QuoteEverything written up to this point is there so you get the idea and I can continue to something else I noticed just recently. There seems to be a third stream.

you know, this whole thing seems like Super Saiyan transformations. Ascend to Super Saiyan, go beyond to level to. Did deeper and you'll discover an even more incredible level 3.

PPS:
Concept from my game: The less conscious you are, the more energy you command, but ironically you can't really use it since you're not fully conscious.
Inspiration for this concept: what you discussed. It's always been apparent that the conscious mind is the weakest in sheer calculating power.
Do you like ambient/electronic music? Then you should promote a talented artist! Help out here. (I'm serious. Just listen to his work at least!)


The best of freeware reviews: Gizmo's Freeware Reviews




Blizzard

Quote from: Fantasist on May 25, 2010, 05:02:41 pm
QuoteKeep in mind that it's difficult to do this to put your mind into a worse state than before. It's possible and you can do it, but it's more difficult. And who would want that anyway? #_#

Is it more difficult? I personally feel it's easier, but the problem is that we inherently avoid putting strain on the mind.
OK, I have a variation of this. What about heightened information processing? A short boost of awareness? Like an adrenaline rush, of sorts. Is there a way one can tune the mind to greatly decrease reaction time and increase processing capability?


Each time I was able to put myself into a worse state, it would go away or weaken quite a bit after the short interruption (e.g. that part with cooking). The mind is most suggestive to positive statements than negative. "I am not tense" will work a lot worse than "I am relaxed". Even though "I am tense" is supposed to work, the mind seems to fight against that suggestion. Maybe that's just my mind, though. After all, I am probably the one person who'd keep sitting and enjoying the last few moments alive in a falling airplane. >.<

Quote from: Fantasist on May 25, 2010, 05:02:41 pm
QuoteEverything written up to this point is there so you get the idea and I can continue to something else I noticed just recently. There seems to be a third stream.

you know, this whole thing seems like Super Saiyan transformations. Ascend to Super Saiyan, go beyond to level to. Did deeper and you'll discover an even more incredible level 3.


I don't think it's related, though. xD SS3 was probably just another step and has nothing to do with my discovery. I could be wrong of course.

Quote from: Fantasist on May 25, 2010, 05:02:41 pm
Concept from my game: The less conscious you are, the more energy you command, but ironically you can't really use it since you're not fully conscious.
Inspiration for this concept: what you discussed. It's always been apparent that the conscious mind is the weakest in sheer calculating power.


Sound interesting, lol!

In any case, that third stream is some crazy shit. I can manipulate my first stream so easily, maybe I can manage one day to get into the third stream for a bit longer than just a fragment of a second. I wonder what I might find there. Lol, this would be like a PC gaining self-consciousness, just kinda the other way around. xD
Check out Daygames and our games:

King of Booze 2      King of Booze: Never Ever
Drinking Game for Android      Never have I ever for Android
Drinking Game for iOS      Never have I ever for iOS


Quote from: winkioI do not speak to bricks, either as individuals or in wall form.

Quote from: Barney StinsonWhen I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

Vell

Am I unworthy of being responded to? D:

You meanyhead.

...But, you do realize, the human brain and mind evolved and adapted that way for a purpose. Not to say that maybe humanity needs another evolution, and what you're doing isn't a step in that, but still. It's dangerous to mess with nature. I mean, sure, you can mess with nature and create a new landmass somehow. ...Or, it could mess up and you could cause a massive sinkhole in an ocean.

winkio

I had this idea about three months ago on how thought works.  The basic idea was that each person has three sets of random data: one that is genetic, one that comes from all your sensors/nerves, and one that can be modified at any time.  My idea was that the genetic one was your unconscious personality, the nerves was your mood, and the last was your conscious personality.  Decisions were made based on the combination of those three streams.

It's funny how similar that is to your model Blizz o_O

Fallen Angel X

Quote from: Fantasist on May 25, 2010, 05:02:41 pm
Is it more difficult? I personally feel it's easier, but the problem is that we inherently avoid putting strain on the mind.
OK, I have a variation of this. What about heightened information processing? A short boost of awareness? Like an adrenaline rush, of sorts. Is there a way one can tune the mind to greatly decrease reaction time and increase processing capability?


That's similar to the whole mental excercise phenomenon. Tuning the mind for increased processing... I see it being possible but not natural and would most likely be very controversial.

As far as thought streams go, I'd rather just simplify it to conscious and subconscious. And genetics, I don't really quite see it as being the unconscious personality. Atleast, that's what I think.

winkio

One of the big reasons I labeled genetics as a personality and not a physical decision stream was because of the base level differences between men's and women's personalities.  The other big reason was because of the fact that scientists can't determine the use of a large portion of the human genome.  It has no observable effect on the development of the body.  Seems like the perfect random stream to me.

Blizzard

@Ulta. I had nothing to add to your post. O_o

Quote from: winkio on May 25, 2010, 08:08:35 pm
It's funny how similar that is to your model Blizz o_O


Then it must be true. :V

Quote from: Fallen Angel X on May 25, 2010, 08:38:25 pm
As far as thought streams go, I'd rather just simplify it to conscious and subconscious. And genetics, I don't really quite see it as being the unconscious personality. Atleast, that's what I think.


Pretty much as winkio and me already said. xD
Check out Daygames and our games:

King of Booze 2      King of Booze: Never Ever
Drinking Game for Android      Never have I ever for Android
Drinking Game for iOS      Never have I ever for iOS


Quote from: winkioI do not speak to bricks, either as individuals or in wall form.

Quote from: Barney StinsonWhen I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

tSwitch

Blizz, this reminds me very strongly of Freudian Psychology.


FCF3a A+ C- D H- M P+ R T W- Z- Sf RLCT a cmn+++ d++ e++ f h+++ iw+++ j+ p sf+
Follow my project: MBlok | Find me on: tSwitch.us | Twitter | Tumblr

Blizzard

Really? Maybe I should look it up. I do know about the concept of ego and superego, but this goes farther.

In any case, I find myself more and more often thinking in the second stream. Before I can even start the sentence in my head, I actually already went through it and made a conclusion while my mind was forming the words. O_o
I'm getting a good grip of this. I can consciously allow my secondary thought stream to take over. There's a disadvantage I noticed, though. It's much harder to remember something when using the second stream. It's probably because it was intended to be a longterm memory that harder learns and forgets harder.
Check out Daygames and our games:

King of Booze 2      King of Booze: Never Ever
Drinking Game for Android      Never have I ever for Android
Drinking Game for iOS      Never have I ever for iOS


Quote from: winkioI do not speak to bricks, either as individuals or in wall form.

Quote from: Barney StinsonWhen I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

lonely_cubone

I've been thinking about this recently as well. I don't remember ever consciously experiencing the third stream, but I've definitely recognized the second one.

Quote from: Blizzard on June 26, 2010, 02:05:09 pm
In any case, I find myself more and more often thinking in the second stream. Before I can even start the sentence in my head, I actually already went through it and made a conclusion while my mind was forming the words. O_o


This happens to me quite a bit. I wonder if, by somehow cutting out the first, conscious stream, we could think of things and solve problems faster. What I find is, my second stream will get an idea, and then wait for my first stream to catch up before continuing, even though my mind as a whole already knows what I'm thinking. If we could skip this step, we could be much more efficient at various mental processes.

Blizzard

True. But as I said, the problem is memory. Faster processing capabilities means less memorizing capabilities.
Check out Daygames and our games:

King of Booze 2      King of Booze: Never Ever
Drinking Game for Android      Never have I ever for Android
Drinking Game for iOS      Never have I ever for iOS


Quote from: winkioI do not speak to bricks, either as individuals or in wall form.

Quote from: Barney StinsonWhen I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

Vell

It's tough for a while, but you get used to it. You have to think about memory differently in the second stream. The usual way people process memory storage has to be modified in order to remember everything in the second stream.

It's like, it happens automatically in the first stream, because it sends things through the second and third automatically - you have to get it to the third manually.

Blizzard

Also, don't memorize in words. Memorize in images, sounds, scents and emotions.
It often happens to me that I connect scent and emotion. e.g. When I go out a night, meet a nice girl, we do what we do and the next day each time I notice her scent on me, the emotions from the night before return to my state of mind. I am almost instantly feeling the same way I felt the night before. It's creepy how powerful it is, it seems even stronger than hypnotic anchoring. O_O;

I think that scent is the most powerful memorizing mechanism. I did experience something strong with taste, but scent is definitely more powerful. It's probably because our brains are hardwired to respond to smells in intense ways and because scents are the least often remembered thing. I have yet to hear somebody describe me something as "it smelled like" when talking about something unrelated to smelling. I've heard "it looks like", "it sounds like", "it feels like" a lot, even "it tastes like". But I have yet to hear somebody comparing something else to a scent. e.g. "He was so charming that he reminded me of the scent of tulips in spring." Haven't heard anything like that yet.
So be careful with scents. O_o

There is even a certain smell that reminds me instantly of sex. <_<;;;
Check out Daygames and our games:

King of Booze 2      King of Booze: Never Ever
Drinking Game for Android      Never have I ever for Android
Drinking Game for iOS      Never have I ever for iOS


Quote from: winkioI do not speak to bricks, either as individuals or in wall form.

Quote from: Barney StinsonWhen I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

Ryex

Quote from: Blizzard on June 27, 2010, 03:04:16 pm
There is even a certain smell that reminds me instantly of sex. <_<;;;


I know what smell your talking about...
I no longer keep up with posts in the forum very well. If you have a question or comment, about my work, or in general I welcome PM's. if you make a post in one of my threads and I don't reply with in a day or two feel free to PM me and point it out to me.<br /><br />DropBox, the best free file syncing service there is.<br />

Blizzard

Thank GOD, I'm not alone in this one. xD
Check out Daygames and our games:

King of Booze 2      King of Booze: Never Ever
Drinking Game for Android      Never have I ever for Android
Drinking Game for iOS      Never have I ever for iOS


Quote from: winkioI do not speak to bricks, either as individuals or in wall form.

Quote from: Barney StinsonWhen I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

Vell

Oh yah forgot to mention that. Second stream works entirely in sensory processing - Words and concrete concepts don't go well in the second stream, so it's best to convert them to sensory inputs the second stream can work with.

Also the smell you're talking of? I know it. It's probably got something to do with Pheromones.

Blizzard

*pokes this topic* Just bumping it a bit.
Check out Daygames and our games:

King of Booze 2      King of Booze: Never Ever
Drinking Game for Android      Never have I ever for Android
Drinking Game for iOS      Never have I ever for iOS


Quote from: winkioI do not speak to bricks, either as individuals or in wall form.

Quote from: Barney StinsonWhen I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.