Ryex's learning to draw thread.

Started by Ryex, January 27, 2011, 04:25:50 am

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Ryex

so. drawing has kinda been a hoby off and on over the last 15 years of my life. and I've always liked to do it.  recently  (with the acquisition of my new tablet) I've been working on sketching the body.
I've never so much as attempted the female body and I though I'd give it a shot.
here is the attempt sketch at the basic form. I'd like some critic, did I even get close to the proper shape? what parts specifically can I do better?
if you bother to reply I'd rather you made it wordy and verbose (yes I want you to be redundant too.)

Spoiler: ShowHide



yes it is drawn in a light red color and it is hard to see. I did that so I could draw the more exact shape on top of it in another layer.
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Starrodkirby86

It's a good thing that you decided to draw with a light color for your sketches! That's a valid and popular way of doing it. :) Though the color is light blue, but whatever floats your boat, right?

The female body should be more hourglassed shape and less masculine. Of course, it depends on what type of female fatale you're planning to draw. Usually though the hourglass is the way to go, unless you want the woman to have a few more pounds packing. :v

After searching through a bit of naked female bodies and pubic hair comparisons, I found this:
Spoiler: ShowHide

Perhaps that can help a little in the basic outline. O.o

The head looks awfully small... I don't know if it's just me though.

And is that a vagina I see? :V:

Anyway, keep going, keep going. Practice makes perfect. And I'm glad you're having more fun with your tablet. xD

What's osu!? It's a rhythm game. Thought I should have a signature with a working rank. ;P It's now clickable!
Still Aqua's biggest fan (Or am I?).




Ryex

well what do you know a wordy reply :p. thanks for validating my choice to draw in red. anyway. I was aware of the whole the hips should come out to the shoulders and the shoulders shouldn't be blocky thing. but I think your right I did draw it a bit more masculine that i intended. as I said I've never attempted to draw a woman only read about the difference and been semi lectured on it by my graphic artist sister. I'ma work on it again tomorrow. thanks again for the reply.
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The Niche

Well, there isn't much I can tell you. Where you should go from here all depends on what kind of style you're looking to draw in. From what I can tell, that's the Ryexander style, of which I know nothing and can tell you nothing. Except to keep practising. It looks like a good base and should evolve into something nice. Either way, keep hacking at it, that's basically the only way you can learn art.

Edit sort of: Okies, if you're trying to draw realistic and stuff, there's plenty of books and stuff around the place on that. Reference material is always helpful, just don't sound creepy :D
Level me down, I'm trying to become the anti-blizz!
Quote from: winkio on June 15, 2011, 07:30:23 pm
Ah, excellent.  You liked my amusing sideshow, yes?  I'm just a simple fool, my wit entertains the wise, and my wisdom fools the fools.



I'm like the bible, widely hated and beautifully quotable.

Dropbox is this way, not any other way!

Ryex

I no longer keep up with posts in the forum very well. If you have a question or comment, about my work, or in general I welcome PM's. if you make a post in one of my threads and I don't reply with in a day or two feel free to PM me and point it out to me.<br /><br />DropBox, the best free file syncing service there is.<br />

The Niche

The breasts look wrong and I think the calves are a little short. Other than that, it is indeed an improvement. Good work, you've improved the curves nicely. I'd insert a :naughty: somewhere around here, but I am trying to be objective.
Level me down, I'm trying to become the anti-blizz!
Quote from: winkio on June 15, 2011, 07:30:23 pm
Ah, excellent.  You liked my amusing sideshow, yes?  I'm just a simple fool, my wit entertains the wise, and my wisdom fools the fools.



I'm like the bible, widely hated and beautifully quotable.

Dropbox is this way, not any other way!

Power Hungry Midget

The overall shape is much better then the first. You also capture the abdominal area quite well. The shins seem somewhat off however but maybe that's just me. Also her left arm looks a bit limp. Still it's far better then anything I could do. I second Niche's comment on the breasts. Maybe make them hang a bit lower...

The plot thickens......

I have a mind to join a club and then beat you over the head with it.
     -Groucho Marx
I often quote myself. I find it adds spice to the conversation.
     -George Bernard Shaw

http://xkcd.com/303

Bigamy is having one wife too many. Monogamy is the same.
    -Oscar Wilde

Ryex

January 27, 2011, 08:49:19 pm #7 Last Edit: January 27, 2011, 08:50:50 pm by Ryex
and now I present an actual person.
Spoiler: ShowHide

grr, her right arm feels very wrong to me but, then a artist is always his or her worst critic so...
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Starrodkirby86

Hmm... I can't quite put my finger over that area too, but it might be the breasts that are alarming me.

Anyway...She still has some masculinity...

Try thinning the neck line?

You may also want to consider some of the unique traits between a male and female body:
Spoiler: ShowHide


I'm looking at the shoulder areas, mainly. :S

Still, like the fleshing out. xD

What's osu!? It's a rhythm game. Thought I should have a signature with a working rank. ;P It's now clickable!
Still Aqua's biggest fan (Or am I?).




Ryex

your right, the shoulders are a little squarer than they might be and the neck is a little thick. hmm well I like that part is seems to fit her face more. but I'll rework them just for practice's sake. also i know what is wrong with her right arms now. it's too thin :p.
I no longer keep up with posts in the forum very well. If you have a question or comment, about my work, or in general I welcome PM's. if you make a post in one of my threads and I don't reply with in a day or two feel free to PM me and point it out to me.<br /><br />DropBox, the best free file syncing service there is.<br />

The Niche

Hmm, not sure I like that one. To expand:

A) Left eyebrow = disproportionately harsh. Parts of it are also covered by the hair, but youu draw them in anyway.

B) Calves are definitely way too short. It might be that I'm used to manga, but definitely, they're disproportionate compared to the thighs.

C) SRK's right. Teh tittehs be wrong. I'd say they should start a little bit lower down.

D) The shirt and collarbones are waaaay wrong. Dude, those things are not triangular.

E) Finally, you overdid the hip bulge. You had it more or less right the last time, now it's like there's a metal ring in the skirt widening it.

Now, what you're doing right:

A) The jawline is good. I think the cheekbone might be a little recessive, but I'm not sure where that's the cheekbone I'm looking at or a hair strand.

B) The eyes are quite nice. I can't really see the pupils, you should experiment with how to make them visible without ruining the look of the eyes.

C) Dude, you got the hands right! You are officially no longer a beginner artist!
Level me down, I'm trying to become the anti-blizz!
Quote from: winkio on June 15, 2011, 07:30:23 pm
Ah, excellent.  You liked my amusing sideshow, yes?  I'm just a simple fool, my wit entertains the wise, and my wisdom fools the fools.



I'm like the bible, widely hated and beautifully quotable.

Dropbox is this way, not any other way!

Ryex

Quote from: The Niche on January 27, 2011, 09:19:36 pm
Hmm, not sure I like that one. To expand:

A) Left eyebrow = disproportionately harsh. Parts of it are also covered by the hair, but youu draw them in anyway.



... I wans't even worrying too much about the eyebrows. in any case I felt the hair needed a bit of a touch up so I inadvertently fixed this

Quote from: The Niche on January 27, 2011, 09:19:36 pm
B) Calves are definitely way too short. It might be that I'm used to manga, but definitely, they're disproportionate compared to the thighs.


I know what you mean a bit of selection box and the arrows keys should fix that...

Quote from: The Niche on January 27, 2011, 09:19:36 pm
C) SRK's right. Teh tittehs be wrong. I'd say they should start a little bit lower down.

I really could not see anything wrong with them but fixed anyway

Quote from: The Niche on January 27, 2011, 09:19:36 pm
D) The shirt and collarbones are waaaay wrong. Dude, those things are not triangular.


ok so the collar bone was in the wrong place and angled to much but have you never heard of a v cut shirt? in any case I didn't link how it look so I gave it a tiny band and curved it

Quote from: The Niche on January 27, 2011, 09:19:36 pm
E) Finally, you overdid the hip bulge. You had it more or less right the last time, now it's like there's a metal ring in the skirt widening it.


at first I though you were referring to the waist band of the skirt but then I noticed


Now, what you're doing right:

Quote from: The Niche on January 27, 2011, 09:19:36 pm
A) The jawline is good. I think the cheekbone might be a little recessive, but I'm not sure where that's the cheekbone I'm looking at or a hair strand.

B) The eyes are quite nice. I can't really see the pupils, you should experiment with how to make them visible without ruining the look of the eyes.

C) Dude, you got the hands right! You are officially no longer a beginner artist!


hands, let me tell you those are a pain in the ass. I think I redrew the hand 5 or 6 times.

and I present the remastered version [/bad joke]
Spoiler: ShowHide
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The Niche

Definitely an improvement. Now the part you are going to hate: I missed a detail about the hands.

Take your own hand. Compare it to the size of your face. Now the same with your sketch.

On the bright side though, if you've got the hand shapes down on a scale that small, you should have no problems drawing them bigger.
Level me down, I'm trying to become the anti-blizz!
Quote from: winkio on June 15, 2011, 07:30:23 pm
Ah, excellent.  You liked my amusing sideshow, yes?  I'm just a simple fool, my wit entertains the wise, and my wisdom fools the fools.



I'm like the bible, widely hated and beautifully quotable.

Dropbox is this way, not any other way!

Ryex

actually I just checked by copy pasting the hand and dragging it over the face, its the perfect size :P
I no longer keep up with posts in the forum very well. If you have a question or comment, about my work, or in general I welcome PM's. if you make a post in one of my threads and I don't reply with in a day or two feel free to PM me and point it out to me.<br /><br />DropBox, the best free file syncing service there is.<br />

WhiteRose

The feet are a little too small. The length of the foot should be exactly the same as the wrist to the elbow. Aside from that, it looks pretty good. Keep practising!

The Niche

Quote from: Ryex on January 27, 2011, 11:25:46 pm
actually I just checked by copy pasting the hand and dragging it over the face, its the perfect size :P


Dude, really? I must be looking at it wrong. Or my guesses were wrong about palm size and such.
Level me down, I'm trying to become the anti-blizz!
Quote from: winkio on June 15, 2011, 07:30:23 pm
Ah, excellent.  You liked my amusing sideshow, yes?  I'm just a simple fool, my wit entertains the wise, and my wisdom fools the fools.



I'm like the bible, widely hated and beautifully quotable.

Dropbox is this way, not any other way!

Futendra

Im studying arts, and I know from experience that all the theory shit doesnt do anything, you need to experiment, retry, edit and spend long time on drawing, female bodies arent hard at all, dont look at stupid puppets, you need to see the real body, even if its might not too normal, but nude people are very inspiring and are very fun to draw! Just keep on trying, dont give up, I currently have to draw photographical, once I took a paper of someone and I tought something would fall of, and it was a drawing xd. Gl!

The Niche

Quote from: Futendra on February 09, 2011, 04:49:44 pm
Im studying arts, and I know from experience that all the theory shit doesnt do anything, you need to experiment, retry, edit and spend long time on drawing, female bodies arent hard at all, dont look at stupid puppets, you need to see the real body, even if its might not too normal, but nude people are very inspiring and are very fun to draw! Just keep on trying, dont give up, I currently have to draw photographical, once I took a paper of someone and I tought something would fall of, and it was a drawing xd. Gl!


*Ryex walks up to a girl*
"Hi, would you like to help me learn to draw?"
"Um...sure,"
"Great. Take off your clothes,"
Level me down, I'm trying to become the anti-blizz!
Quote from: winkio on June 15, 2011, 07:30:23 pm
Ah, excellent.  You liked my amusing sideshow, yes?  I'm just a simple fool, my wit entertains the wise, and my wisdom fools the fools.



I'm like the bible, widely hated and beautifully quotable.

Dropbox is this way, not any other way!

Kagutsuchi

Quote from: The Niche on February 09, 2011, 04:52:51 pm
Quote from: Futendra on February 09, 2011, 04:49:44 pm
Im studying arts, and I know from experience that all the theory shit doesnt do anything, you need to experiment, retry, edit and spend long time on drawing, female bodies arent hard at all, dont look at stupid puppets, you need to see the real body, even if its might not too normal, but nude people are very inspiring and are very fun to draw! Just keep on trying, dont give up, I currently have to draw photographical, once I took a paper of someone and I tought something would fall of, and it was a drawing xd. Gl!


*Ryex walks up to a girl*
"Hi, would you like to help me learn to draw?"
"Um...sure,"
"Great. Take off your clothes,"


It is what the internet is for right? :P Atm Ryex better have a large porn collection xD

Hatsamu

Hi, I've been drawing since the last 21 years or so, and let me tell you that the improvement from the first sketch to the last picture is fairly remarkable.

You still need to work in the shoulders, though. They should be more round and a bit thicker than the arms.

Also, the legs your drawing are just one of many "leg models". That doesn't mean they are wrong of course, just that you could try different styles and shapes to keep improving.

There are, maybe, some other things that you could correct and/or change, however, just keep on drawing and you'll get things easily done without advice. I mean, there's not a "correct body shape" as we, humans, are all different ...even girls (?)

Reygekan

Her elbow should be where the inner curve of the "hourglass" shape occurs. The best thing my girlfriend ever taught me about drawing girls, aside from helping me get the boobs right, were that "girls have ribs." It doesn't seem to be a problem in what you've got so far though, but it's something to remember.

I think your quads  might be a bit long. The arms, fully extended, should get about halfway down the quads. This is making your calves look a bit short, whether or not they're actually short or if they're just relatively short to the calves is something I can't really tell.

Keep the neck thinner with a soft slope downwards, this'll indicate smaller trapezoidals, larger ones being a feature of men (especially larger men). Larger traps will give your shoulders a broader look than they might have. Don't be afraid to start unnaturally thin and start fleshing them out later. avoid drawing the lines in the neck for now and focus more on the collar bones, then add in the neck lines when you're a bit more comfortable.

She's a bit tall, which isn't bad but most women should be a bit shorter. Head size is typically the "marker" for size, although I've never really bought that. Sizing up the head a little or shrinking the body might make the size a bit more appropriate. There are girls with these proportions though, so don't necessarily worry about getting them "the right size" all the time.

Her deltoids (shoulder) are actually a bit shorter than they should be, while her biceps and triceps are a tad too long, which is shrinking her forearms slightly. Her shoulders wont be big- keep them soft- but the curve into the biceps/triceps is going to start a little lower. Most girls aren't defined enough for this to really stand out, so you could eliminate the shoudlers->arms curve altogether, as long as the arm starts larger up top and thins down to the forearms it'll still look natural (think a kind of v-shape.)

Her boobs don't quite line up- one is bigger than the other, but otherwise your shape is fine. They'll start like triangles, but turn into soft, ovular curves near the bottom.

Practice a lot and you should get it. I still have some problems drawing girls too, but it always helps to know girls who can draw. I can draw men because I can use my own body as an example, and girls typically draw women because they can do the same, or have a lot of female friends and can use them, so they'll really have them down. I like to ask my girlfriend or her friends when I'm stuck, they have an eye for these things.

Reno-s--Joker

Hey Ryex, I'd probably say I'm also in the learning stage when it comes to drawing but I don't have the balls to open anything of mine up to criticism, so kudos to you! :) Good luck with your drawing endeavors!

I'm wondering: are you aiming more for realism, or to convey 'femininity'? I know this may be obvious but sometimes you have to (ironically) really exaggerate feminine features to draw a recognisable woman. Manga/anime is a prime example of this, and well most cartoon styles in general. Once you understand the underlying features that define the female body, you can probably tone them down later so that your drawings look more realistic and human.
Of course the perception of femininity depends on culture and maybe on you yourself, so you just have to ask yourself "what do I like in a woman?" (or something similar) and then build your picture up from that, with those features as your top priority.
For example, if you think of a good-looking woman as having a slim waist and big hips and big boobs, don't be afraid to really exaggerate her tiny waist, even if it's not anatomical. See how that looks to you and then gradually make it more realistic later.
I may be recontextualising, but to quote,
Quote from: Reygekan on February 09, 2011, 07:19:26 pm
Don't be afraid to start unnaturally thin and start fleshing them out later.


Something which I also found to help get proportions right was to first draw lines where the major parts are (e.g. a line going across the shoulders, a box where the hips should be, a circle for the skull, crosses for the elbows, etc.). And plan out the pose beforehand! This helps prevent the common "oh crap, I didn't leave room for the arm, let's just stick it behind the person's back" kinda occurence which I see (and have committed myself) quite often.

Also, a random tip: apparently the shoulders should be about 3 times the width of the face. Don't be afraid to make the woman's chest wide (it has to support her boobs) -- just slope the shoulders down (e.g. like a trapezium more than a square) to cancel out the masculine effect that makes. And the boobs should be in the same place as men's boobs, just the nipples hang lower and stick further out the front. Add them later - they shouldn't dictate the shape of the actual ribcage (the real chest).

I hoped that helped and made some sense to you. I tried my best to be verbose, but I think I'm a bit muddled in the head lately so I wouldn't be surprised if you didn't get it. :S


Ryex

My style is more of a cross between manga style and realism is that I go for realistic proportions while keeping the simplistic line style of manga.

thanks for all the input. I'm taking it all with a grain of salt as my perception of art is inherently different than yours but I'm still taking note of the areas pointed out the can define the differences between masculine and feminine body structure. here arms still feel wrong because they look more like elongated bubbles than limbs so 'ill work on that aspect. and her eyes feel hallow but other than that I like the result.  I'll be drawing more characters both male and female in several different positions to learn and get more skilled with it.

thanks for the support guys
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Futendra

Ok do this: draw a man body an inside that draw a woman body, you will see much differernces and you wont be scared of making the woman a man, it helps alot!

Ryex

February 10, 2011, 02:21:46 am #24 Last Edit: February 10, 2011, 02:25:00 am by Ryex
a new sketch, this time of a man, WARNING FREAKING HUGE IMAGE. no really I drew it at greater that 5000 * 8000 so as to get a good resolution
Spoiler: ShowHide



EDIT: hmm seems photo bucket resized it for me...
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Starrodkirby86

Hmm...

The biggest thing that stands out to me is the face. If you look at the general anatomy of the face...

Spoiler: ShowHide


(Pardon the weird-looking face xD)


The eyes are spaced apart by a gap the size of one eye. At least, that's what the general proportion should be, more or less.

Anyway, that's pretty much by biggest gripe. xD Cool work so far :)

What's osu!? It's a rhythm game. Thought I should have a signature with a working rank. ;P It's now clickable!
Still Aqua's biggest fan (Or am I?).




Ryex

ya eyes are spaced apart by one eye. but there are exceptions to the rule so I pulled them in a little closer and the fact the his face is turned side ways makes them appear a little closer too
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Reygekan

Are you going for the more ripped look? You've given him what appears to be a six pack, but the rest of the body doesn't match, so I'm not sure how I should give input on it. (Abs are an indicator of low body fat, so his muscle tone and body shape will vary from that of a regular man. I'm not talking about turning him into Superman or Hulk, there are just numerous differences. Which is where the confusion comes for me.)

Ryex

February 10, 2011, 03:54:56 am #28 Last Edit: February 10, 2011, 03:57:04 am by Ryex
ya I was going for a low body fat build, not riped per-say but in in good enough shape that you can see defined abdominal mussels. and I'm not sure what you mean by inconsistencies so enlighten me.
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Reygekan

Abs appear when you're at about 10% and below, although this'll obviously vary slightly depending on whether or not you're a bodybuilder (bodybuilders have a more efficient method of building ab size which is not actually the approach most core programs use, and why a lot of "core programs" typically don't work.) At this level you're going to find men are actually x-shaped.

http://askthetrainer.com/exercise-information.html

Ignore the whole "click to see exercises" garbage, as this website may or may not be valid in that department, but look at the anatomy. Now, because you're drawing a character with low body fat, certain characteristics are going to start to stand out, although not all will.

The first is that at that body fat, your traps are definitely going to be visible, they're only really going to be gone for fat people. The traps are those triangular looking "neck muscles" (they're actually bigger than your abs, they extend into your back, but that's not relevant here.) Your character is missing his traps. This actually cuts down on his shoulder size and shortens the neck, which will shorten everything else accordingly and make him look slightly off.

The second, look at the abs on the image. Those ones aren't entirely accurate, there are actually 8, but the inaccuracy is excusable because abs vary from person to person. you'll find several images of bodybuilders with extremely thin abs that end well above their bellybutton. I have much taller abs, that extend well below the bellybutton. So with this, you have a lot of leeway. But look to the sides of the abs. You're going to find a lot of horizontal bands of muscle. You don't need to know anything about these, but look at their shape. You'll find they actually come inwards, almost like a girl's hourglass, and then jut back out. How exaggerated this is will depend on how big your character is, but this isn't the hulk and he doesn't have monster lats, so you'll be fine if it's just a subtle change.

This can be more easily done with that sketch by broadening the pecs, he's really rectangular, but he's thin so you can't afford to do this subtractively. Broadening the chest, even if just a little, will help bring out the X shape while making him look more toned, but not necessarily big.

He doesn't seem like a bodybuilder, and the picture isn't shaded, so your arms are generally fine as is, but if you're going with something more athletic you'll have to make sure the deltoids (shoulders) have some more definition. You can do this by making them larger and extending them further down, or by slimming down his biceps and triceps if you prefer.

http://fireemblemblog.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/volug.jpg

Take a look at Volug, for example. His arms mostly, although you can still find he has a good x-shape and nice traps. The top shoulder muscles are the deltoids, they're bigger and stronger than the rest of the arm, and they're going to show up if you're at a low bodyfat. You'll also find the arm curves around the biceps and triceps. This is what gives him that athletic, toned look. It's common for people to have deltoids kind of merge with their biceps and triceps, but that's because they're out of shape. Someone who's in shape is going to have a visible difference.

Sorry if my posts might focus too much on anatomy or seem a bit nitpicky, if you haven't noticed I'm huge into the gym scene so I try to be really aware of muscles and body shape so I can find out what I should look like and where I need to get better, so I tend to notice those normally little things.

As for some general advice, experiment with shading. If you're not comfortable with it yet, it's more than fine to wait, but you'll find they help you add a lot of dimension you can't otherwise get.

Another general tip is to experiment with is to draw your characters naked first and then clothe them (my girlfriend likes to do this. She leaves out the privates, sorry guys) or, what I prefer, is to block in your clothing and then draw their body underneath to see if it's still proportional. The problem with clothes is that since they conceal so much and since they're so simple, they can sometimes warp your characters body.

Futendra

The eyes are probably too much up, the eye should exactly split the head in 2

Reno-s--Joker

I think his arms are slightly short. But I kinda like how his eyes seem somewhat unnaturally close together. It makes him see angry and tough.

Pretty good! I find men really hard to draw. Much better than I could ever do. :)

Ryex

ya the look is supposed to be a determined stare. I think I hit the mark there. the reason the arms may seems a bit short is the they are extended away from the body but you may be right. I'm hardly an expert on the subject.
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The Niche

I thought the forearms were a little short as well. Still, looks nice.
Level me down, I'm trying to become the anti-blizz!
Quote from: winkio on June 15, 2011, 07:30:23 pm
Ah, excellent.  You liked my amusing sideshow, yes?  I'm just a simple fool, my wit entertains the wise, and my wisdom fools the fools.



I'm like the bible, widely hated and beautifully quotable.

Dropbox is this way, not any other way!

Ryex

December 14, 2011, 04:05:00 am #34 Last Edit: December 14, 2011, 04:11:01 am by Ryex
so... ponies. they deserve to be drawn too right?

Note Deviant art images are hard to embed here

http://backend.deviantart.com/embed/view.swf?1&id=273565531&width=1337
Link

These two didn't want to embed

AJ likes Apple flavored hats


Everypony's Favorite sultry Equine

I no longer keep up with posts in the forum very well. If you have a question or comment, about my work, or in general I welcome PM's. if you make a post in one of my threads and I don't reply with in a day or two feel free to PM me and point it out to me.<br /><br />DropBox, the best free file syncing service there is.<br />