Magic discussion

Started by winkio, March 06, 2011, 01:32:42 pm

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winkio

How does magic work?  We know that relatively weak magic can be performed without titanium, but titanium drastically increases magical power.

I like the idea of having different levels of magic, where level 0 requires no titanium, level 1 requires 1 titanium, etc.  By using different types of titanium related to different areas of magic, we could give the player some control over how their characters are set up (ex. pure fire titanium, or half fire, half lightning, etc.).  Different levels would unlock different skills, and some hybrid skills would need levels in multiple types of magic.

AliveDrive

I want to somehow incorporate a skill mastery system where once a spell has been mastered it can be used regardless of the type or amount of titanium carried, but would not count towards new skills.

I.E.

Thunder - 1T (titanium)            Thunder (MASTERED) - 0T
|                                           |
Thunder+ - 2T                        Thunder+ - 2T
|                                           |
Thunder Rage - 4T                   Thunder Rage - 4T
Quote from: Blizzard on September 09, 2011, 02:26:33 am
The permanent solution for your problem would be to stop hanging out with stupid people.

winkio

I completely disagree.  The only thing skill or weapon mastery has any done in any game I've ever seen it is cause grindfests that lead to overpowered characters.

Hatsamu

Pure Titanium, (Water, Fire, Earth, Air) Titanium, Thunder Titanium, Dark Titanium, Sacred Titanium.

Pure could be used for "regular" skills (ie: Mystic Slash).

Elemental ones and Dark for Element/Darkness related Skills.

Sacred, being the less common one, for ultimate skills (perhaps even "summons").


For healing skills, Air and Water could provide them so we won't need a "Healing Titanium".


I like the Magic Levels and even more the possibility of combining Titanium in order to unlock hybrid skills.

winkio

March 06, 2011, 02:40:12 pm #4 Last Edit: March 06, 2011, 03:47:17 pm by winkio
We could just use the categories listed under RTP animations for types:
fire, ice, thunder, water, earth, wind, light, dark.  You know, those elements that are already set up.

Also, titanium would not necessarily have to be pure.  For example, you could have one that gives +3 to fire and +1 to light.

AliveDrive

I think we should limit the number of types, or we end up with a pokemon scenario.

What would be much simpler is to:
Quote from: Hatsamu on March 06, 2011, 02:35:36 pm

For healing skills, Air and Water could provide them so we won't need a "Healing Titanium".

I like the Magic Levels and even more the possibility of combining Titanium in order to unlock hybrid skills.


So that combinations create new types, but there are a limited number of combinations.

Fire + Fire = Haste
Fire + Earth = Dispel magic
Fire + Air = Fire Defense
Fire + Water = Blind

Earth + Earth = Stop
Earth + Air = Earth defense
Earth + Water = Slow

Air + Air = Barrier
Air + Water = Heal

Water + Water = M Barrier

What do you guys think?
Quote from: Blizzard on September 09, 2011, 02:26:33 am
The permanent solution for your problem would be to stop hanging out with stupid people.

winkio

So just 4 instead of 8?  Why not an odd number like 5 or a different even number like 6?  Because with 4 types and 4 characters, it just ends up being 1 element to each.

AliveDrive

Quote from: AliveDrive on March 06, 2011, 04:50:18 pm
I think we should limit the number of types, or we end up with a pokemon scenario.

What would be much simpler is to:
Quote from: Hatsamu on March 06, 2011, 02:35:36 pm

For healing skills, Air and Water could provide them so we won't need a "Healing Titanium".

I like the Magic Levels and even more the possibility of combining Titanium in order to unlock hybrid skills.


So that combinations create new types, but there are a limited number of combinations.

Fire + Fire = Haste
Fire + Earth = Dispel
Fire + Air = Burn
Fire + Water = Blind
Fire + Light = Stun
Fire + Dark = Makes no sense..., Dragon

Earth + Earth = Stop
Earth + Air = Demi/Gravity
Earth + Water = Slow
Earth + Light = DEF up
Earth + Dark = Earthquake

Air + Air = Barrier
Air + Water = Heal
Air + Light = Sleep
Air + Dark = Tornado


Water + Water = M Barrier
Water + Light = ATK up
Water + Dark = Poison

Light + Light = Revive
Light + Dark = Ultima

Dark + Dark = Chaos

What do you guys think?
Quote from: Blizzard on September 09, 2011, 02:26:33 am
The permanent solution for your problem would be to stop hanging out with stupid people.

winkio

Right, but there would be combinations of 5 or even 6 elements: Fire3 Air2 Earth1 = Meteor.

We could set the system up where each skill has to have a certain amount of each element to be used.

AliveDrive

Those were just examples, we can make a full list now if you want though. It took me a while to think some of those up. And some of them i just threw something down.
Quote from: AliveDrive on March 06, 2011, 05:16:05 pm
Light + Dark = Ultima


Those two would normally just cancel out xD.
Quote from: Blizzard on September 09, 2011, 02:26:33 am
The permanent solution for your problem would be to stop hanging out with stupid people.

winkio

I don't think we need a magic for every possible combination (that would be a lot).  We can make the skills first, and then assign them later.

AliveDrive

True, that would be a lot easier.
Quote from: Blizzard on September 09, 2011, 02:26:33 am
The permanent solution for your problem would be to stop hanging out with stupid people.

WhiteRose

Though I like the idea of having Titanium that matches up to different elements, the one element I'm not sure about is holy. I had thought that the Overgod represented the main "holy" faction in the game, and he has forbidden magic. My plan was that followers of the Overgod (most importantly William) are able to use a small part of his power to perform tasks such as healing - this would constitute the game's "holy" element, rather than grouping it together with magic.

Maybe we could implement some sort of system in which using more Titanium weakens your link to the Overgod, strengthening your magic but decreasing your holy power. This would be an interesting tie in to the story concept of William having to choose between the Church and the wizards (by the way, we should come up with a name for the group of wizards.)

Just an idea.

AliveDrive

The Mages. Too generic? Meh.

I like this idea a lot since it makes a lot of sense to me.

How hard would it be to implement two types of "MP"?

You know, Standard Magic and Divine Power? Or we could change those names, but I think it should be something along those lines.
Quote from: Blizzard on September 09, 2011, 02:26:33 am
The permanent solution for your problem would be to stop hanging out with stupid people.

winkio

Easy as pie to make two different skill sets.  I'm in favor of using PP (power points) and MP (magic points).

And I like the Overgod vs. Magic dynamic.

Hatsamu

Quote from: WhiteRose on March 06, 2011, 07:13:28 pmMaybe we could implement some sort of system in which using more Titanium weakens your link to the Overgod, strengthening your magic but decreasing your holy power. This would be an interesting tie in to the story concept of William having to choose between the Church and the wizards (by the way, we should come up with a name for the group of wizards.)


I think this would be a great addition to the game as its original, not too complex and matches the storyline.


Also, with at least 6 types of Titanium (Air, Water, Fire, Earth, Thunder and Dark) and allowing combination of 2+ types, we can create many skills that have to be unlocking by getting and combining the right amount and kinds of it.


I'd still add the "Pure Titanium" to the game (it could just power up skills or something) so this would be the first Titanium William happens to get. Other way, the first "elemental titanium" obtained could lead the player to think of that element as the "main one". [/random thoughts]

AliveDrive

An interesting observation Hatsamu.

And since I forgot to mention earlier, I agree with the Holy element being mainly the Overgod's thing.

I like:

  • Fire
  • Earth
  • Water
  • Air
  • and Dark type elements.

    I still think we should have other elemental type per se, but as a combination of other elements. Air + Water = Ice, Air + Fire = Thunder. Thoughts?

    As Winkio mentioned earlier, the database includes Thunder and Ice by default, but I feel the same effect can be achieved with less.

    If you think more elements is better, then so be it.
Quote from: Blizzard on September 09, 2011, 02:26:33 am
The permanent solution for your problem would be to stop hanging out with stupid people.

winkio

I think we would only use whatever base elements we have, and just reconfigure the database accordingly.  It's perfectly fine to only have 5 base elements.

Hatsamu

I'd go with the four elements (air, water, fire, earth) and a fifth one. But I was thinking of changing "Dark" to a new/original one as, after all, Titanium is used to "summon the dark powers". I mean, in this game-world any kind of magic is seen as "something dark" so having it as an element started sounding redundant for me. And a new element would be a nice addition too as we can created realy cool magic skills based on it, not being limited/guided by an already known element.

winkio

Pure magic?  It could have extremely powerful attacks that don't really correspond to any of the natural elements.  I like that idea too.

Also, in the database, we should make a holy element just to use for some of the Overgod based skills, but not as part of the magic.