ARC's future

Started by Blizzard, December 24, 2013, 02:24:08 am

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Blizzard

No, it's not gonna get canceled. I've been talking to gameus.

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Quote[07:45] gameus: Hey blizz
[07:49] Blizzard: hey, man
[07:49] gameus: I've been trying to embed ruby into C++ with the Playstation Portable SDK
[07:50] gameus: And I guess I'm just trying to figure out which files I should be using because I tried grabbing header and lib files from the source itself and I just got a butt load of errors
[07:50] Blizzard: you mean from Ruby?
[07:50] gameus: No, from the compiler, can't find config.h and I tried figuring out what that file should have been.
[07:50] gameus: Found that and it had other files missing.
[07:50] Blizzard: in ARC we ended up having to compile Ruby ourselves if you remember
[07:50] Blizzard: that's mainly because the dist Ruby is compiled with MinGW
[07:51] Blizzard: and we're using VS
[07:51] gameus: Ah okay
[07:51] Blizzard: and those two compiles are actually not compatible
[07:51] Blizzard: compilers*
[07:51] gameus: What about GCC?
[07:51] Blizzard: MinGW = Minimalistic GNU compiler for Windows
[07:52] Blizzard: it literally is GCC :)
[07:52] gameus: Ah sweet.
[07:52] gameus: Wasn't aware of that, all I knew is that this SDK uses GCC
[07:52] Blizzard: hm, then dist Ruby should work
[07:52] Blizzard: there should be a lib
[07:52] Blizzard: but I don't think you have to make your own config.h
[07:53] gameus: If I downloaded Ruby 2.x, it can still properly oepn 1.8 marshaled files correct?
[07:53] Blizzard: you should have one in the dist
[07:53] Blizzard: yes, that should work
[07:53] gameus: I'm assuming the only time you'll have issues is if you write with a newer version
[07:53] gameus: and attempt to read with an older.
[07:55] gameus: Okay, sweet. All in all what I'm trying to do is create a dirty engine clone of RGSS for the PSP. And most of the internal C++ classes will most likely be ruby rewrites until I can properly create everything and learn how to interface back and fourth.
[07:55] Blizzard: isn't ARC kinda almost what you want to make? xD
[07:56] gameus: Yeah and I was really all on board until life hit the fan.
[07:56] gameus: The part I was excited for was the engine.
[07:56] gameus: At that time my C++ knowledge was minimal
[07:56] Blizzard: for what exactly would you want to make a clone?
[07:56] Blizzard: fame and glory or for helping people out?
[07:57] gameus: A few friends wanted to play some RMXP games on the psp
[07:57] gameus: Not really fame
[07:57] gameus: If successful I'll release it but it's not something I'm trying for attention
[07:57] Blizzard: well, then I don't mind that you just use ARC for that
[07:57] gameus: I wouldn't know where to begin to start porting it to the PSP.
[07:57] Blizzard: trust me, I probably put in 300+ hours into it
[07:57] gameus: It's graphics libraries are different.
[07:57] Blizzard: what is it using?
[07:57] Blizzard: OpenGLES?
[07:57] gameus: I know it can use SDL
[07:58] gameus: I think it might use OpenGL
[07:58] Blizzard: we have SDL window support
[07:58] Blizzard: we have that, too
[07:58] gameus: Since the PSP is older
[07:58] gameus: I don't know if it'll have OpenGLES
[07:58] Blizzard: though render targets are not yet implemented in OpenGL/ES
[07:58] Blizzard: well, most mobile devices use GLES rather than normal GL
[07:58] gameus: considering htis is an unofficial SDK
[07:59] gameus: I honestly couldn't tell you
[07:59] Blizzard: GLES has been around since the first iPhone
[07:59] Blizzard: and even longer, lol
[07:59] Blizzard: well
[07:59] gameus: the PSP SDK has been in development for years and theres like a crap load of libraries for it anymore
[07:59] gameus: Okay
[07:59] gameus: It has both
[07:59] gameus: GL/GLES
[07:59] Blizzard: as far as I'm concerned, feel free to dig in and find out how things work
[07:59] gameus: SDL
[07:59] gameus: It has vorbis and ogg libs too
[07:59] Blizzard: then I can show you how ARC works
[07:59] Blizzard: great!
[07:59] gameus: zlib
[08:00] Blizzard: XAL uses these as well
[08:00] gameus: and zip support
[08:00] Blizzard: ARC already uses all that :)
[08:00] gameus: Cool.
[08:00] Blizzard: what kind of audio system is used?
[08:00] gameus: I was thinking about trying to do network simulation too like that one guy did with the android thing.
[08:00] gameus: Audio system as in?
[08:00] Blizzard: we have SDL, XAudio2 and DirectSound
[08:01] gameus: from what I'm seeing from the libraries here
[08:01] gameus: theres a custom one
[08:01] gameus: pspsnd
[08:01] gameus: ogg
[08:01] gameus: vorbis
[08:01] gameus: flac
[08:01] gameus: and sdl if need be
[08:01] Blizzard: have ogg vorbis, but I haven't come around implementing flac
[08:01] Blizzard: great
[08:01] Blizzard: then ARC should basically already run on PSP
[08:02] Blizzard: we just need to set up compiling and linking :)
[08:02] gameus: Sweet.
[08:02] gameus: Which is all done in the makefile huh?
[08:02] gameus: That's the one thing I'm still trying to figure out
[08:02] Blizzard: IDK
[08:02] Blizzard: yeah
[08:02] Blizzard: xD
[08:02] gameus: That's what's used as compiling options
[08:02] gameus: using the PSP's make program.
[08:03] gameus: That'd be cool, to be responsible for the PSP port.
[08:03] gameus: Resolution is going to be suckish on the PSP though
[08:03] gameus: 480x272
[08:03] gameus: I still haven't figured out what I'm gonna do with that.
[08:04] Blizzard: 480x272 is somewhat close to 16:9
[08:04] Blizzard: maybe it is exactly 16:9
[08:04] Blizzard: yeah, that's really suckish
[08:05] Blizzard: people have to adapt their games for that, there's no way around that
[08:05] gameus: according to the calculator
[08:05] gameus: is 30:17
[08:05] gameus: ._.
[08:05] gameus: We'd either have to do super weird stretching
[08:05] Blizzard: 480x270 would be 16:9
[08:05] Blizzard: nah, in ARC you can specify the resolution after all
[08:06] Blizzard: but the scripts would need some updates
[08:06] gameus: Yup
[08:06] gameus: I guess we could provide two options
[08:06] gameus: auto stretch and make it weird
[08:06] gameus: or if people were really serious about PSP porting
[08:06] Blizzard: lol
[08:06] gameus: then they could go through and adapt menus
[08:06] Blizzard: yes
[08:06] Blizzard: that's the plan
[08:06] gameus: And what's great
[08:06] Blizzard: basic stretching is easy
[08:07] Blizzard: but if people want a proper port, they can do that as well
[08:07] gameus: Getting licensed for the PSP is a pain and dunno if possible still
[08:07] gameus: but every PSP is hackable
[08:07] gameus: and we could release the ARC PSP port as freeware homebrew if you agree to that
[08:07] gameus: As far as legality goes, I don't know if people can legally sell PSP homebrew
[08:08] gameus: considering modifying the PSP or signing the programs with sony's singature without authorization is completely against their terms
[08:08] Blizzard: well, ARC is freeware
[08:08] Blizzard: xD
[08:08] gameus: But I was more or less referring to the licensing in paid software
[08:08] Blizzard: yeah, we can figure something out on that
[08:08] Blizzard: you know
[08:08] Blizzard: we probably won't ever make ARC full
[08:08] Blizzard: so I think that ARC will stay free forever
[08:09] gameus: I feel I let you guys down bad.
[08:09] Blizzard: and without licensing fee
[08:09] Blizzard: ultimately it's not just your fault
[08:09] gameus: When it came time to the editor, I had no idea what to do with python
[08:09] Blizzard: I know, it was overwhelming
[08:09] gameus: I was unprepared for the entire thing to be honest.
[08:09] Blizzard: most of us were
[08:09] gameus: I remember at that time I was trying to create a new editor in pure ruby
[08:09] gameus: and then I jumped into two languages I didn't know at all
[08:09] Blizzard: I mean, you know how many problems I've had with Ruby + C++
[08:09] gameus: Oh yeah
[08:10] Blizzard: but persistence is key
[08:10] Blizzard: which is why we have a running engine now
[08:10] gameus: Which is great, if we could just get the editor up and running.
[08:10] Blizzard: yeah
[08:10] Blizzard: but Ryex needs help with that
[08:10] gameus: No offense to Ryex, but I think something like the plugin system could wait.
[08:11] gameus: The barebones for editing all of our data is what's important in my opinion
[08:11] Blizzard: he has a lot of work ahead actually
[08:11] Blizzard: actually you might be right
[08:11] Blizzard: plugins could wait until Beta 2
[08:11] gameus: The plugins system is what I was looking forward to the most.
[08:11] gameus: It'd be cool to be able to add custom event commands and reduce the number of script calls
[08:11] Blizzard: ok, I have an idea
[08:12] Blizzard: I'll make a topic


So, what will become of ARC and what are some important things we need to address?

1. Our highest priority should be the editor beta. This means that the plugin system can wait. Ryex, you should focus on that. Gameus and KK20 can help you with that.

2. I will find some time inbetween to implement the last few things in the engine. At Cateia we're currently in the process of refactoring April again and I intend to implement render targets on OpenGL and OpenGLES which we need in ARC. I will also refactor ARC's code a bit to make the most of the updated libraries (I haven't done this in a while).

3. As you can see, we can get ARC running on PSP relatively easily. Same goes for Android, iOS and Mac. But this also means that we can forget MIDI support.

4. Let's stop at that. ARC Legacy Edition will be ARC and we won't make a new full engine. I have too much other stuff I am working on, I don't have enough time to write a new ARC engine. This also means that we'll just release it as freeware and that's it. Not license fees, no nothing. Why? ARC LE is essentially a clone of RGSS. I don't think we can monetize on that.

5. Open Source. If it's already free, let's just make it Open Source altogether. Why? That way we can maybe get some help from the community.

Let me know your thoughts of these.
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Ryex

ME Blizz and G_G were all talking in skype about this and I think that we are going to go through with this plan for the most part.
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Blizzard

December 28, 2013, 06:38:08 am #3 Last Edit: December 28, 2013, 06:40:00 am by Blizzard
Alright then. I will make all necessary preparations on my part.

EDIT: I can't remember. Did we agree upon an actual SVN repo or should we just go with Sourceforge after all?
Check out Daygames and our games:

King of Booze 2      King of Booze: Never Ever
Drinking Game for Android      Never have I ever for Android
Drinking Game for iOS      Never have I ever for iOS


Quote from: winkioI do not speak to bricks, either as individuals or in wall form.

Quote from: Barney StinsonWhen I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

G_G

I think we said we could stick with Assembla if we had to, but Ryex said there wasn't nothing wrong with SourceForge.

Ryex

ya, my initial objection was just me being picky :P
I no longer keep up with posts in the forum very well. If you have a question or comment, about my work, or in general I welcome PM's. if you make a post in one of my threads and I don't reply with in a day or two feel free to PM me and point it out to me.<br /><br />DropBox, the best free file syncing service there is.<br />

Blizzard

January 12, 2014, 01:34:14 pm #6 Last Edit: January 12, 2014, 01:37:37 pm by Blizzard
Everything's ready. I setup a new project and moved the SVN there.

https://sourceforge.net/p/arcreator

EDIT: As soon as everybody confirms everything, I will delete the project from Assembla.
Check out Daygames and our games:

King of Booze 2      King of Booze: Never Ever
Drinking Game for Android      Never have I ever for Android
Drinking Game for iOS      Never have I ever for iOS


Quote from: winkioI do not speak to bricks, either as individuals or in wall form.

Quote from: Barney StinsonWhen I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.