Animal Rights

Started by Rune, July 20, 2008, 05:22:00 pm

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Starrodkirby86

Fantasist said the point clear and well in his style too. Great stuff. With the insect matter, I don't like killing innocent ones, flies, spiders. I don't mind if they are an annoyance, but I have to swat some occasionally...And I don't like it. But it decreases the surplus population and flies spawn fast anyway, so I suppose it's okay to do something of that sort...Who knows. :/

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Fantasist

Don't you think human population is surplus and they 'spawn fast' too? Haha, got you! >:D

I don't know if this is off-topic, but I think our feelings are very biased. We think animals shouldn't be mistreated or killed senseless, but we only feel that way because we connect to them. We won't kill a larger animal with half as ease as we kill an insect because in the bottom of our hearts (or in the center of our thick heads), we DO think their lives are not worth it. See? No morals, our feelings are driven by out gut instincts. We know it at some level, we fail to see it when it's finer.

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QuoteFantasist said the point clear and well in his style too.

I'm ashamed to admit, my style being plurality mistakes, overuse of words and probably tense mistakes -_-' (lol :D)
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Starrodkirby86

It's because we humans aren't exactly the equal-thinker. Of course, we cleared out racism, we know think our black man is our brother and all, but I don't think animal bias will ever be resolved. It's too far into it and the animals, unlike African Americans, can't think as well or speak our language.

Humans spawn fast yes, but they die fast too. ;) Not by a fly-swatter...unless you're sick like that...o.o

PS. I noticed a lot of "tell me this", "my opinion", "majority", that whole stuff...So...those keywords makes Debating Fantasist. >8D

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Fantasist

QuoteNot by a fly-swatter...unless you're sick like that...o.o

I'm not :o

So apart from food and experiments (which can't probably be practically avoided), I think there are other places where hurting animals is 100% undiluted madness, like the tanning industry. imho, that's what I call plain sick, because it involves killing animals just for pure pleasure and nothing more.
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Rune

I have killed a few bugs in the distant past, I've changed now, and always refrain from disposing of insects, and that.

QuoteBut it decreases the surplus population and flies spawn fast anyway, so I suppose it's okay to do something of that sort...Who knows. :/

It's not the population I'm annoyed about, it's that the creatures have to suffer when they've most likely done nothing wrong to you. A living creature will only attack if it needs to, through fear, anger, the need for food, or whatever.

@Fantasist - I agree, my feelings towards the matter are biased, but I fail to see any rightness in the senseless killing and torture of animals. The only side of the argument I can argue on fairly is the against side.

QuoteSo apart from food and experiments (which can't probably be practically avoided), I think there are other places where hurting animals is 100% undiluted madness, like the tanning industry. imho, that's what I call plain sick, because it involves killing animals just for pure pleasure and nothing more.

Similar to hunting. That's just sick.
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Blizzard

Interesting views. You know, just recently I realized something. Even though I hate insects and spiders (insectophobia and arachnophobia, I was able to almost get rid of it during the years), I started to avoid killing them. I didn't kill them for fun earlier, but I noticed something weird. I think that I developed a deep respect for life. I was in the bathroom and apparently a spider went down behind me. When I turned around to walk out of the door I hit it with my face (somewhere close to my lips). I didn't expect that to happen and I didn't see the spider, but in that moment I hit my face with my hand and tried to get it off, it was more of a reflex. Just then I realized what actually happened. I looked around the floor and around the bathroom, but I couldn't even find the dead body of the spider. I felt sorry for what I had done...
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Starrodkirby86

I'm interested to see what the other motions of animals and life do. It's really fascinating, if you have a long attention span and very patient. On the insects/spiders thing, I myself had a spider go down on my back when I was in the john. It jumped and landed straight on my back, giving some ticklish feel...Didn't know what it was, so I checked it and noticed it was a spider :o

Didn't kill it though, let it escape...*sigh* I suppose that's fortunate.

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Blizzard

I saved a mouse that was in my house the other day. My mom wanted me to kill it, I wanted to catch it and let it free. And so I did. :) Anyway, let's not go too much offtopic. My point was that we should all respect life how small it might be.
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Rune

July 21, 2008, 03:26:27 pm #28 Last Edit: July 21, 2008, 03:27:02 pm by Rune
Agreed. It's not right to take something's life through pure fear or hatred, or so we can use them for ornaments, food, etc. Although, in similar cases to what Blizzard reminisced, if you kill something without meaning to, through shock, or even 'manslaughter', you can't be completely to blame.

Anyway, I sense we're starting to go offtopic now, from animal rights to the 'Is it right to kill?' argument. Back on topic people I think.
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Vell

just a note: in a classical Conditioning experiment someone fed mice sweetened water, then gave them a tasteless drug that only would make the mouse puke. he did it to condition them to fear the water. when he tried to uncondition the water, by force feeding them it without adding the drug later, it killed the animals.

all he fed them was the water: the man later found out that the drug suppressed the immune system, and after being conditioned on it, the water suppressed the immune system.

which caused the rats to die.

was the man at fault? nobody had ever before had that happen. and he hadnt known about the immune system suppression aspect of the drug. I was gonna ask something more, but I forgot.

Fantasist

But only he knows if he intended to risk the mice' safety and comfort. He in all likeliness knew the possible outcomes. The point, I think, is not whether he was responsible for the mice' death. It is the fact that he experimented on them. He couldn't do that on humans, could he?
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Starrodkirby86

Quote from: Fantasist on July 24, 2008, 01:30:18 am
But only he knows if he intended to risk the mice' safety and comfort. He in all likeliness knew the possible outcomes. The point, I think, is not whether he was responsible for the mice' death. It is the fact that he experimented on them. He couldn't do that on humans, could he?
Precisely, we humans have more rights. If the human died, then the scientist would have to be sued or arrested. But if the mouse dies, then no one gets hurt, and it's just landfill. This shows that we have more rights than animals, giving us somewhat unfair powers. Dogs have some rights, after all, a sportsman got arrested for the killing of dogs (I believe it was a baseball player). But not every animal in the book, unfortunately.

(By the way Fantasist, I can see your debating side here :D)

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