Chaos Project

General => Chat => Intelligent Debate => Topic started by: Ryex on September 05, 2011, 03:02:05 pm

Title: Is this the world you though it was?
Post by: Ryex on September 05, 2011, 03:02:05 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pd6WVm3EEtE&NR=1

so I was watching this and I realized something. I'm a VERY lucky bastard.

I'm part of the upper middle class and as a result I don't have to pay for my education. my parents are adsorbing the cost of college and at the same time renovating the house. they did the same thing with my sister. and if I graduate into my field I'll start off is the same salary bracket that my dad is working in right now. he's the program director for 1/4 of the states highway program and is retiring at the end of October he's been working for 40 years to get to the pay grade he is now he;s been promoted from the number cruncher to the big boss who controls the other big bosses who control smaller bosses. he nearly got to the top of the ladder. and I just by going to college will walk out of school and start off making the amount he is now and walking into a sector of the market that will just be starting to take off when I graduate.

I'm a VERY lucky bastard.

but at the same time. there are so many other who are struggling to get through college for such worthless degrees as a BS in business something that is considered a dime a dozen in this day and age.

Is this world what you thought it was when you were growing up? or are you starting to see the harsh reality that true opportunity knocks on the doors of very few people...
Title: Re: Is this the world you though it was?
Post by: winkio on September 05, 2011, 03:25:55 pm
I never believed the fairytale that life was going to be one big walk in the park.  In middle school I went through a cynical phase similar to the guy in the video.  Then I realized that the human network does not run on ideals, but on human minds.

Let me explain.  The human network is society - a global network of people interacting in order to live their lives.  There are all these great ideals and, for lack of a better word, fairytales that are a part of it: 'hard work always pays off', 'follow your dreams and you will be successful', 'you can go from rags to riches in a few years time'.  I would make a comment about how foolish it is too put too much value in such flimsy statements, but religion has proven how common an occurrence this is. 

It's really simple once you stop to think about it: the only way to be successful and get ahead in life is by actually earning it.  Bill Gates didn't just wake up with a billion dollars under his pillow, he was out there making a difference in the computing world.  If you want a job doing the thing you love, you have to find people willing to hire you and prove yourself to them.  If you want a promotion, you better be a leader at your workplace, put in extra hours, gain respect from upper management.

People seem to think that the most successful have easy rides through life.  It's actually the opposite - they put in the most effort, do the most work, bear the most pain, and carry the most weight.

In conclusion, go watch The Pursuit of Happyness (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pursuit_of_Happyness).  Not only will it cheer you up, but it is a great example of how success is made through hard work and determination (it's based on a true story, most of the stuff actually happened).
Title: Re: Is this the world you though it was?
Post by: ForeverZer0 on September 05, 2011, 03:39:46 pm
I don't have much to add, winkio pretty much already posted my opinion. As for things seeing things differently from years ago, I would say this is normal for everyone, pertaining to most subjects. As you mature, you gain experiences and your perspective on things changes. It would be a sign of immaturity to be twenty-something and still believing that the world is a fairy-tale.  This isn't to say gaining appreciation for your blessings is just "growing-up", though.  Sadly, many people go through life and never understand that, so I am happy that you can see that.
Title: Re: Is this the world you though it was?
Post by: Blizzard on September 05, 2011, 03:58:43 pm
I know one thing that won't bring you happiness for sure. And that's comparing yourself to others. There will always be somebody better looking, somebody richer, somebody smarter, etc. The key to happiness is to compare yourself only to yourself. If you compare yourself right now and yourself a year ago, I'm sure there were improvements. You will feel better because you have grown.
Again, screw the rest of the world. They are the makers of their own fate and so are you, so focus on yourself and be productive.

I once wished I could find ways and fix the problems of the world. Not only have I realized that this is a pretty hard job and very ungrateful, I have also learned to let go. It does make me sad to see the world in the state it is these days, but at least I can let go and have my own peace. A wise man once said:

Quote from: St. FrancisLord, grant me the strength to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
Title: Re: Is this the world you though it was?
Post by: Ryex on September 05, 2011, 05:03:04 pm
I'm not under any dilutions that success is easy to come by. opportunity only knocks on the door, it's up to you to open it and walk down the offer path. But at the same time there are those of us who have far fewer challenges to deal with, having to find the money to pay for my education is one of those challenges that i'm blessed to not have to worry about.

but wasn't there a time in your life (like your early teens) where you were blissfully unaware of the struggle that most people have to deal with to get anywhere in life? was it a rude awakening that brought you to the truth?
Title: Re: Is this the world you though it was?
Post by: Blizzard on September 05, 2011, 05:31:57 pm
Those who have less challenges in life are unfortunate. Challenges make you the man you can be. It's the challenges that make life worth living. Why do you think so many rich people are unhappy (or at least not really happy)? It's because most of them never had the satisfaction to earn what they have. And there is a certain limit to how many challenges you have to take. I was lucky that my parents financed me while I was and undergraduate. If they hadn't, it would have been even harder for me. But I can't think of any way it could have been any harder than me having to get a job while in college.

I, for one, am glad to have taken the red pill. Sure, I would have been happy with the blue pill as well, but I like it this way more.
Title: Re: Is this the world you though it was?
Post by: Ryex on April 21, 2014, 02:24:50 am
God... Dammit.

I'm necroing this thread because it's become relevant to me again. I's been a little over two years now since I first posted this. I was going through the old thread in this forum just to see what I might of missed or forgotten about. and when I found this thread and re watched the video I hit me much harder this time. suddenly I can identify with every dam thing he's talking about. sure I still well off compared to the people I know. but the harsh reality of just how fucked this world seems to be has only gotten clearer sense then. where are we going? I ask the world. It used to be that money's power was limited. back where It took weeks to cross the Atlantic and the idea of a world stock market was preposterous money only worked as fast as you could carry a chest of gold form point a to point b. banks had to work hard to keep your money safe, vetted their investors because the investor was liable to the  bank's customer for loses government while often just as corrupt as it is now actually had real power.

these day I can't say that this is true. these days banks are leveraged up 80X their actual funds as opposed to the 3 or 4 x of the old days. international companies and corporations carry more capital and political clout than most government leaders. This is NOT thw world I thought it was even two years ago.

in a world when governments keep themselves afloat by selling off their own debt to the lowest bidder... what the fuck are we doing?
Title: Re: Is this the world you though it was?
Post by: Blizzard on April 21, 2014, 04:02:49 am
I watched the video and I don't think I watched it the last time. This man is bitter and broken, blaming everybody else but himself for his own failures. I'm not saying that he didn't try, but he most certainly didn't try hard enough. Sending hundreds of letters for jobs every day? No fucking way. If he did that for 7 years, that's a quarter of a million of letters. And he says that he can't find a job? Bullshit, he isn't trying as hard as he is saying. And all that complaining? 500 years ago people lived like shit and there was no way out. But in this age things are different. If he'd rather complain than REALLY do something about it, that's his problem. Of course, he gets some payoff, because people can feel sorry for him and that's enough secondary emotional payoff to keep him going. If he was as frustrated as he claims to be, he would seriously do something about it. I'd say he needs to go even deeper, to hit rock bottom before he actually starts doing something about it.

And the beautiful people argument? Wow, this guy has to stop watching TV immediately. It has completely warped his view of the world. He can't change the world, but he can change himself. He shouldn't look outward for solutions to his problems. All I hear is excuses, excuses, excuses. The world doesn't make sense? Oh yes, it does. But because you are drowned in shit from the mainstream media, you obviously can't see the underlying truth, the elusive obvious.

One of his major misconceptions (which is even written in the title) is that he expects that he will be rewarded like a dog if he follows the rules of society which are built on superficial standards. If he expects to be rewarded like a dog, he deserves to live like a dog.

You're pissed, because you're being picked on? Hone your social skills and make friends. You think the rich are lazy? Yeah, because being lazy is what got them rich in the first place. Successful people aren't out to fuck you over. It's quite to opposite. If you show initiative and ambition, successful people will help you and guide you. But first you have to stop making excuses and start taking opportunities.

Ryex, you read the "your life here" thread recently and saw how gameus' GF reacted. This is not how things are get done. But gameus' seized the opportunity. This is what you do. First make clear what your goal is and then direct all your efforts and all what you do in that direction. If something does not help you to further your ultimate goal, cut it off from your life. The world is harsh and if you don't want to remain stuck in the same shitty situation you are right now, you have to start being harsh as well. I'm not saying don't be compassionate and empathic. But you should put compassion and empathy aside for a while until you get your own life in order. The hungry cannot feed other hungry people. If you want to feed others, first feed yourself.

And watch the video I PMed you. It's the exact opposite of what this guy is telling you. Of furthermore, it offers an alternative.

EDIT: The world is better than ever before. It's true that there are some shitty aspects of it and they seem even bigger, because the world has gotten bigger. But fuck that. It's not about the world, it's about you. If everybody else is driving themselves into their doom, you don't have to do that as well. Our society as a whole will adjust to problems and changes as it did for the past 5000+ years. Don't worry about society and the world, worry about what you are gonna do with your own life. Nobody is trying to push you down or keep you down. This is just another excuse not to put any effort into things.

"Whatever I do, I can't succeed, because other people are trying to push me down." Don't let them push you down. Find new friends that are supportive and get rid of the people who are not. If they don't support you, they are not your real friends. And this goes vice versa. You should support your new friends as well, because together you can accomplish more.

"You need money and good looks to get ahead in life." This is bullshit. Yes, because of society's superficial standards, people will money and good looks will get a bit ahead in life, but that doesn't make them happy any more than you. Hard work and effort on yourself as well as your dreams are the only way how you can really get ahead in life. And hard work DOES pay off. It might not pay off immediately or you might need to work for a bit longer until you see any benefits. And obviously not every work pays off the same. If you work your whole life on a conveyor belt, don't expect that hard work there will pay off as much as maybe software development in this day and age.

"But I'm sending 100 emails a day!" No, you are not. If you need money, take a job a McDonalds until you get on your own feet. Then start working on something in your free time. Then use that in your résumé to give you a better chance of actually getting the job you want. No, it's not gonna be easy, you will piss blood. But it's a hell of a lot better than just working at McDonalds you entire life. Don't be too proud to take any job if you need the money.

And for fuck's sake, stop complaining! It's a waste of time and energy and just reinforces the idea that you can't do shit about your situation which is not true.
Title: Re: Is this the world you though it was?
Post by: Crasger on April 21, 2014, 05:56:55 am
Umm, the guy in the video is Garret Gilchrist. He's actually a director and animator who has done some interesting projects such as "The Thief and the Cobbler Recobbled Cut". I think that video was some demo film thing he was working on...

Anyway, I'm having a difficult time comprehending if the guy in this video is actually genuine with the words he's saying. I don't know if he's pitying himself or he's just speaking out to those who are in such circumstances. Honestly, I think this video is a farce. Just something for his resume to show off his acting/editing/writing skills.
Title: Re: Is this the world you though it was?
Post by: Blizzard on April 21, 2014, 06:00:35 am
I figured it would be something like this. But it still doesn't change the facts.
Title: Re: Is this the world you though it was?
Post by: tSwitch on April 21, 2014, 12:57:19 pm
I just want to say in as much as there are rich people who earned it and deserve every penny to their name, there are a lot of snobs that didn't earn a thing, and ride on the successes of their past family, and  yet still act like they personally earned and deserve their wealth.
Title: Re: Is this the world you though it was?
Post by: Crasger on April 21, 2014, 01:00:42 pm
tSwitch is absolutely correct.

As cliche (again) as it sounds, there are some people who take their wealth for granted.

But we all knew that by now...
Title: Re: Is this the world you though it was?
Post by: Blizzard on April 21, 2014, 03:16:09 pm
There are entitled assholes among non-rich people as well. Whatever group you belong to, there are always some asshole around. Even in self-improvement. So naturally there are gonna be some asshole among rich people.
Title: Re: Is this the world you though it was?
Post by: Ryex on April 21, 2014, 03:36:38 pm
Here an asshole there an asshole everywhere an asshole. we all have them after all.
Title: Re: Is this the world you though it was?
Post by: Heretic86 on April 21, 2014, 06:08:22 pm
For a few to be rich, many must be poor.

I know it breaks the concept of the thread, but this is the harsh reality.  I dont believe that many of those who are rich today have gotten that way by complete and total honesty.  Some have, but many have not.  There are plenty of people who made a ton of money by writing home loans to people that flat out can not afford the loans, yet, they still got their commissions.  No one thought of them as entrapping anyone.  No one was held accountable.  However, the results of their actions propped up businesses while the loans were going through, the economy adjusted to that increase in loan money, then total collapse.

Opinions on this will vary depending on where you look.

Most people tend to look at the poor as having brought poverty upon themselves.  They are blamed because they didnt buy "higher education".  However, education itself is also a business.  All businesses survive by satisfying demands.  Sometimes demands are real.  There is a true need for basic education.  Math.  Science.  The ability to read.  However, the educational facilities can also create a false demand.  Such as suggesting that a person needs a degree in some obscure field to be able to flip burgers.  The person who can not read can probably flip a burger just as well as a person granted a PhD in burger flipping.  In that case, the person who can not read is probably way better off than the PhD, if they are both paid the same.  Why?  The PhD either has to go heavily into debt, or spend extraordinary volumes of money to buy their degree, and the person that can not read has not gone into debt.

There are so many true scams in this world and many suffer as a result.  The housing bubble and education bubble are just one of many examples of how honest business can also run like a scam.  It is something I did not ever see before I graduated, but one I do believe has always operated as a total scam is Insurance.
Title: Re: Is this the world you though it was?
Post by: Blizzard on April 22, 2014, 01:23:31 am
The belief that all or most rich people got rich by shady means is a belief perpetrated by poor people so they can feel better about themselves and their shitty lives as if they had higher morals because of that. But I already said that. "No, you can only get rich by shady means. I don't want to be rich." Nothing but excuses.
Title: Re: Is this the world you though it was?
Post by: Crasger on April 22, 2014, 01:33:18 am
The ends don't justify the means, is what you're trying to say, right?
Title: Re: Is this the world you though it was?
Post by: Blizzard on April 22, 2014, 02:03:20 am
No, I am saying that the belief that rich people got rich only by dishonest means is a completely unfounded conception. In order for poor people to feel better about themselves, they simply made this up so that they can always say "He may be rich, but I am honest!" This is this major hypocrisy, but the little man doesn't want to know that. I'm not saying that there aren't rich people who are dishonest. There are, but just like dishonest poor people, that's only a small fraction.
Title: Re: Is this the world you though it was?
Post by: Heretic86 on April 22, 2014, 03:22:26 am
The rich can get rich by either honest or dishonest.  Truth is, both forms exist.  Problem is, those that are dishonest are very rarely ever held accountable for their actions.

Why else would a person running for office spend more on a campaign than they would stand to earn from that position?  Many abuse the powers of the offices they are elected to in an effort to legalize only their form of theft.  Legal?  Yes.  Dishonest?  Absolutely.

Law != Honesty
Title: Re: Is this the world you though it was?
Post by: Crasger on April 22, 2014, 03:54:37 am
But in the entire world. AS A WHOLE. All the countries spanning all continents and not just the United States or wherever you live, do you think that the dishonest outnumber the honest or is it vice versa?

To be frank, dishonesty is alright if you're still doing it for good; well not alright, but in a gray area.
Title: Re: Is this the world you though it was?
Post by: Blizzard on April 22, 2014, 04:01:47 am
Quote from: Heretic86 on April 22, 2014, 03:22:26 am
The rich can get rich by either honest or dishonest.  Truth is, both forms exist.  Problem is, those that are dishonest are very rarely ever held accountable for their actions.

Why else would a person running for office spend more on a campaign than they would stand to earn from that position?  Many abuse the powers of the offices they are elected to in an effort to legalize only their form of theft.  Legal?  Yes.  Dishonest?  Absolutely.

Law != Honesty


And you know all this by thorough investigation and actually talking to people who are involved?
Title: Re: Is this the world you though it was?
Post by: Ryex on April 22, 2014, 12:48:37 pm
The president of the US makes 500,000 a year. 4*500,000 = 2 Mill for their 4 year term.

http://elections.nytimes.com/2012/campaign-finance

spent 985 Mill to get there.

there is merit to his claim.


then you look down at the major donors and you realize that that single persons threw up to 15 mill each at Romney and 5 mill each at Obama.
though I'm plesently surprised that 68% of Obama donation capital was made of donations under $2500
Title: Re: Is this the world you though it was?
Post by: Crasger on April 22, 2014, 10:13:54 pm
I've noticed the requirements for running for Presidency is rather ridiculous.

I'm not sure with America, but where I live the requirements of being able to run for presidency are as follows:



That's pretty much it. Any rich and popular fool can hold power. They don't need any experience with Law, they don't need any experience except the ability to read and write.

But I think I'm straying off topic.
Title: Re: Is this the world you though it was?
Post by: Blizzard on April 23, 2014, 01:14:44 am
Wasn't there some sort of requirement of minimum wealth in order to reduce the chance of bribing?
Title: Re: Is this the world you though it was?
Post by: Crasger on April 23, 2014, 01:52:58 am
Not sure, which country are we talking about with that?

Anyway, we are straying off a bit.
Title: Re: Is this the world you though it was?
Post by: Blizzard on April 23, 2014, 01:55:04 am
The US. I just realized that you wrote "I'm not sure with America, but where I live" and not "In America". xD
Title: Re: Is this the world you though it was?
Post by: Crasger on April 23, 2014, 01:56:31 am
Yeeaap.

Dunno with America though, if I remember correctly it's almost the same as the requirements for where I live, too.
Title: Re: Is this the world you though it was?
Post by: Ryex on April 23, 2014, 03:55:49 pm
yep, the requirements are identical except the age limit is 35 not 40. the problem is that in order to be on the ballet you have to be backed by a political party. and in order to get into the debates you have to be back by either the republican or democrat parties.
Title: Re: Is this the world you though it was?
Post by: Crasger on April 23, 2014, 06:52:51 pm
I see.

Parties are optional here, and instead of two we have a fuckton of them. It's like a competition with teams really. Most parties team up just to disband other parties.
Title: Re: Is this the world you though it was?
Post by: Ryex on April 23, 2014, 07:32:37 pm
ya, the two party system is so ingrained into the system here that the leader of the House of representatives is chosen by which ever party has a majority of the house seats.

It's been blamed for a lot of the problems here, how the government moves so slowly, never get anything done ect. But I can only imagine the horror if we had more than two parties fighting over agendas in the congress. The real problem however is lobbying. Now days about 82% (no, not a made up statistic) of those employed as congressmen or to the staff of congressmen end up employed in the lobbying industry when their terms expire. The mere fact that it's a freaking INDUSTRY pisses me off. companies spends billions paying people to live their lives basically shoulder to shoulder with senators and get them to vote and draft laws in their favor. and the turn over rate from congress into the lobbying industry has basically become a legal form of bribery. "ya know Senator, if you draft this law and vote for it you'll look perfect to accept this new position we're opening up when your term expires, we'll give you a signing bonus of a few million" or "Ya know, we can help fund your campaign next year"

The US Government is full of that kind of bullshit. The voice of the people has been drowned out by the very vocal voice of lobbyists.
Title: Re: Is this the world you though it was?
Post by: Crasger on April 23, 2014, 07:51:49 pm
Well that sucks.
Title: Re: Is this the world you though it was?
Post by: Blizzard on April 24, 2014, 01:58:55 am
Surprisingly Extra Credits did a few episodes exactly on this topic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xa-vQ0L77LY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mu5QZmPG8zk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0X2es__Wtuk
Title: Re: Is this the world you though it was?
Post by: Ryex on April 24, 2014, 02:50:46 am
Quote
Game designers understand how broken our government systems are better than the people in charge of those systems do. And that frightens me.


me too youtube commentator, me too.

see, this is the kind of thing I'm talking about.
when I was growing up I was taught that I was one of 300 Million lucky bastards out of 7.1 billion, one of the luck 4% that lived in the only perfect country in the world. that our government was impervious to corruption because of how it was set up as a democracy. that I should be proud of my government and always vote to ensure it stayed true to the right way of life.

then I grew up and by the middle of high school I started to see the truth. I still a lucky bastard because I have several freedoms and support systems that just don't exist anywhere else. but the USA was FAR form perfect. That it works about as well as a warehouse of monkeys on typewriters censored by two kids arguing over which gibberish the monkeys are spouting is best.

Title: Re: Is this the world you though it was?
Post by: Heretic86 on April 24, 2014, 07:15:54 pm
I find it to be pretty amazing that there are a couple of posts that at least imply that Politicians are Honest.  If they were honest, Lobbying would be useless because they wouldnt respond to their legalized bribes.

Lies actually require two participants, a person to speak the Lie, and a person to believe the Lie.  The volume of lies was my biggest mindblow when it came to realizing the world is the way I thought it was in school.  Liars are gonna say they are honest, so what is the point of as asking them if they are honest?  I've done my homework and have investigated and have directly participated.  The election system is corrupt.  People are expected to vote for who they are ordered to vote for, and if they do not, their votes are literally not counted.  Their votes are invalidated under what ever excuse they can come up with.  "Its a coup".  Um, isnt a Coup basically the vote of the Majority?

Too much on Politics, but same topic of Lies.

I watched Cosmos last night from Mondays show.  And again, another example of Lies and Big Power was GM saying that Lead is perfectly safe, while the guy that figured out the age of the Earth (based on Uranium decay into Lead) was discredited due to profits.  The show is pretty sciencey and not too political, so if anyones interested, its still a good show to watch.  I'll try to get off Politics because its taking over the thread, we all made our points.

---

Science Blows My Mind

Some of the science stuff is another thing that just boggles my mind about the world being what I thought it was.  We see the world through our eyes and experiences, but when we start looking at everything from a scientific perspective, the world becomes very different, very cool, very strange, and for me, just fascinating.  The idea that in your eyeball, you have more atoms than there are suns in the entire universe!  But there are more suns in the universe than there are grains of sand of all the beaches of the entire planet!  Other things like Spacetime.  Dark Matter and Dark Energy.  The known matter universe is roughly 90 billion light years across, but its only 13.8 billion years old, and there is no way for matter to move "faster than light"!

As much as Science blows my mind, the other end of the extreme is Human Stupidity.

Its not always a lack of understanding or the ability to understand, but the lack of effort that people put forth to understand.  Like communicating with dogs.  Ive never found it difficult, but I see many people that do flat out stupid things like pet their dogs when they are growling and being aggressive expecting that the dog will "calm down" from petting it?

Other things are incredibly laughable.  Some people dont get technology at all.  For example, holding up a piece of paper to a computer monitor and saying "scan" and expecting the computer to recognize voice commands.  Thinking a Mouse is a Foot Pedal.  Believing you can "download INK" off the internet.  Not buy, order and ship, but literally download something physical, like a cheeseburger.  People that dont know that your CMOS battery is not strong enough to power your computer when the fucking power is out!  People that think that Deer Crossing Signs are there to tell Deer that they can cross the road there!  People that can not figure out that if you are travelling 78.2 miles per hour, you travel 78.2 miles in one hour!  People that think PHP is a Street Drug, not a programming language!  People that think the Earth is flat.  Darwin Award Winners!  The list of things that people do that arent just normal stupid but exceptionally stupid just goes on and on and on.

Einstein was right.  There are only two things that are Infinite.  The universe, and Human Stupidity.  And he was not absolutely certain about the Universe...
Title: Re: Is this the world you though it was?
Post by: Blizzard on April 25, 2014, 01:14:11 am
Who said anything about politicians? You are twisting my words. I said rich and successful, businessmen that worked their asses off to get where they are today. I am not even talking about rich kids who inherited their wealth. You entirely disregarded my question and took it out of context by applying it only to politicians.
Title: Re: Is this the world you though it was?
Post by: Heretic86 on April 25, 2014, 07:53:34 pm
@Blizz - I split the thread to reply.  Dishonesty is something that I did not think was the way it is.  Topic is very broad and I felt worth splitting so I'll just stick to the original topic here.

Do you feel science also shows the world is not the way each of us thought it was?
Title: Re: Is this the world you though it was?
Post by: Crasger on April 25, 2014, 09:09:07 pm
I remember this quote from somewhere but I can't remember who said it:
"We're taking comedians seriously and the government as a joke"
Something along those lines. I know I didn't type out the exact quote. Anyone know this line?

EDIT: Here's the real quote:
"Everything is changing. People are taking the comedians seriously and the politicians as a joke."

It was apparently uttered by Will Rogers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will_Rogers). He's got other one-liners about this subject; such as:

"A fool and his money are soon elected."
and
"There are three kinds of men:
The ones that learn by reading.
The few who learn by observation.
The rest of them have to touch an electric fence."

Well, he's a rather jolly old man, isn't he?
Title: Re: Is this the world you though it was?
Post by: Ryex on April 26, 2014, 05:10:38 am
I'm in the observation category.
Title: Re: Is this the world you though it was?
Post by: Crasger on April 26, 2014, 07:53:11 am
Quote from: Ryex on April 26, 2014, 05:10:38 am
I'm in the observation category.

What?
Title: Re: Is this the world you though it was?
Post by: Ryex on April 26, 2014, 01:39:58 pm
from your quote
Title: Re: Is this the world you though it was?
Post by: Crasger on April 26, 2014, 08:31:10 pm
The wikipedia page, I presume.

Anyway-- we should go back to topic.