A few of my classmates are bulllying me all time. They shout things like that I should be a nerd, just because I'm making a game. They also want me to smoke drugs and talk like they're going to put a joint in my mouth and light it, if I don't light it myself. The other things I'm not gonna post here, these are not acceptable in these places, because of the rude language and the sexual terminology. When I tell them to stop saying these things, they don't listen, because they are high or just don't hear me cos the shout too loud. Teachers don't say a word about the whole part and think we're now old enough to handle the problem (5th year on secondary school).
My question to you:
Is it ethically acceptable if I put some of my classmates in my game, in the prison under the palace, while they're shouting these things to the player of the game.
Please tell me your opinion about the situation, and sorry for my bad English/grammer, I'm Dutch...
I can sing a song about getting bullied...
One thing that I can say for sure is that I initially wanted to do the same thing: Giving people I know and under which I suffered a cameo appearance in my game(s). At one point in my life I decided not to do it. You know why? Because those people aren't even worth such a worthless role in my game.
If it makes you feel better, do it. Before you make the final release of the game you can always remove them if their roles aren't important. But if you do that, they will always be in your game. Forever.
That's all I can tell you. Whatever you decide, don't let it bother you if it's "ethically correct" or "politically correct", because it doesn't make a difference. The only thing that that matters is what you think about it and if you really want to do it. As I said, keep in mind that you glorify them in your game regardless whatever role you give them.
Oh, BTW. One day you'll be a successful (and probably rich) game developer and have a good life while those people who bullied you in school will end up as losers. That is almost 100% the case. You'll get your "revenge" eventually.
You'll end up as the bullies' boss one day. GIVE THEM HELL ON THE JOB XD
I doubt he'd hire them :roll:
Anyway, go ahead if you want, just make a second game with in it or do what Blizzy said ;)
@Navm: From your mouth to god's ear. xD
I know. I'm such a good person aren't I? XD
Technically, they own the rights to what they're saying, so no, it's wrong.
Quote from: Longfellow on September 30, 2009, 04:31:14 pm
Technically, they own the rights to what they're saying, so no, it's wrong.
Depends on what they say. Things like "you smell like shit" are public domain afaik.
FREEDOM OF SPEECH, YEAH! Unless......
If they shout for help in their prison, then Sub is right. Also, those are fantasy characters (regardless of representation) in a fantasy setting so you can't apply generic real life laws to it.
Quote from: Longfellow on September 30, 2009, 04:31:14 pm
Technically, they own the rights to what they're saying, so no, it's wrong.
Wait, no? People don't own the rights to what they are saying. You can't record them with a recording device (tape recorder) without their permission, but you can use and repeat whatever they say for any purpose.
Advice for game:
They don't deserve a place in your game. Don't let them become a part of you.
Advice for real life:
Do something about it. That doesn't mean fight them, just don't be a target. Don't let them put themselves above you.
Seriously I doubt that you'd be their boss, that's way too idealistic Blizzard.
Just do it anyways, regardless of morality. Here's my logic: Your ideas and point of view is shaped by your past experiences. We are the reaction of the collective actions that occur in our life. It's only right to include what you experienced in your game if it really defines you. Games are both and expression as entertainment and an expression of their creator. Read a book and look at the villain. There was more than likely a person in the author's life that inspired the actions or personalities of the villain. It's just a matter of habit to use such things in expressing ourselves.
Protip: Don't use their names though. That's dumb.
BTW Winkio, you'd make a great school guidance councilor with advise like "Don't be a target" that really helps me figure out how I should act. *sarcasm* :p
Report them. If you think it's weak to report them, then you're just too weak to do anything about it. Don't be weak enough to let people undermine your sense of self worth.
Quote from: Diokatsu on September 30, 2009, 07:51:13 pm
BTW Winkio, you'd make a great school guidance councilor with advise like "Don't be a target" that really helps me figure out how I should act. *sarcasm* :p
We all had our problems, I had mine. I dealt with mine by putting myself on equal footing with the aggressors instead of taking it. It worked out very well. Just because you disagree with somebody doesn't mean that their opinion is invalid. So yeah, grow up Dio.
Back to the topic, including them in your game means that they are a part of you, as Dio said. Do you WANT them to define you? Just something to think about.
Quote from: winkio on September 30, 2009, 11:06:00 pm
Quote from: Diokatsu on September 30, 2009, 07:51:13 pm
BTW Winkio, you'd make a great school guidance councilor with advise like "Don't be a target" that really helps me figure out how I should act. *sarcasm* :p
We all had our problems, I had mine. I dealt with mine by putting myself on equal footing with the aggressors instead of taking it. It worked out very well. Just because you disagree with somebody doesn't mean that their opinion is invalid. So yeah, grow up Dio.
Back to the topic, including them in your game means that they are a part of you, as Dio said. Do you WANT them to define you? Just something to think about.
I just, you know, act like I'm smarter and more interesting than my "aggressors." And I end up actually being smarter and more interesting. And therefore, I win. You see, condescension is actually a very, very useful tool, you just have to know how to use it :P
Quote from: Diokatsu on September 30, 2009, 07:51:13 pm
Seriously I doubt that you'd be their boss, that's way too idealistic Blizzard.
It wasn't me who said it (especially since I highly doubt that scenario will happen). I only said that it would be probably cool for him if it happened.
LF is right, be more interesting. Also, As winkio said, everybody has to work it out their own way. I worked out mine in such a way that I have become an elusive and mysterious personality. Sure, I'm quite social and stuff. I have no problems chit-chatting with people I don't even know. But it's not simple to make me tell somebody something about myself such as that I'm actually making games. On good method is to hint at thing about oneself. If somebody is actually interested they will ask you.
QuoteMe: Well then, see you later. I still have some stuff to do. It's about a couple thousand dollars, hahaha!
Person: Really? What are you doing?
Me: It's a long story, I'll tell you another time.
Or alternative:
QuoteMe: Well then, see you later. I still have some stuff to do. It's about a couple thousand dollars, hahaha!
Person: Really? What are you doing?
Me: I'm a game developer. It's a long story, I'll tell you another time.
Quote from: Blizzard on October 01, 2009, 03:09:37 am
Quote from: Diokatsu on September 30, 2009, 07:51:13 pm
Seriously I doubt that you'd be their boss, that's way too idealistic Blizzard.
It wasn't me who said it (especially since I highly doubt that scenario will happen). I only said that it would be probably cool for him if it happened.
LF is right, be more interesting. Also, As winkio said, everybody has to work it out their own way. I worked out mine in such a way that I have become an elusive and mysterious personality. Sure, I'm quite social and stuff. I have no problems chit-chatting with people I don't even know. But it's not simple to make me tell somebody something about myself such as that I'm actually making games. On good method is to hint at thing about oneself. If somebody is actually interested they will ask you.
QuoteMe: Well then, see you later. I still have some stuff to do. It's about a couple thousand dollars, hahaha!
Person: Really? What are you doing?
Me: It's a long story, I'll tell you another time.
Or alternative:
QuoteMe: Well then, see you later. I still have some stuff to do. It's about a couple thousand dollars, hahaha!
Person: Really? What are you doing?
Me: I'm a game developer. It's a long story, I'll tell you another time.
I was thinking closer to doing crap like giving your name as Eric Blair or Francois Marie Arouet when people ask you. I've even done that when they've asked me what my name is for a picture in the paper.
...and then they confuse me with the guy to my right, so
he ends up being Eric Blair and
I end up with his name ><
Quote from: winkio on September 30, 2009, 11:06:00 pm
Quote from: Diokatsu on September 30, 2009, 07:51:13 pm
BTW Winkio, you'd make a great school guidance councilor with advise like "Don't be a target" that really helps me figure out how I should act. *sarcasm* :p
We all had our problems, I had mine. I dealt with mine by putting myself on equal footing with the aggressors instead of taking it. It worked out very well. Just because you disagree with somebody doesn't mean that their opinion is invalid. So yeah, grow up Dio.
Back to the topic, including them in your game means that they are a part of you, as Dio said. Do you WANT them to define you? Just something to think about.
First, I was joking around. Why are you getting angry about such a thing? I was merely pointing out how vague and unfounded such advice was in a situation like that. Not to say mine was any better. You're incredibly antagonistic and quick to judge if you think I'm immature because of such a thing.
You don't choose what defines you, they'll always be a part of you. You can't pick and choose thing to remember, but you can choose what you take from them. No matter what anyone says, they will always be a part of your person, for good or for ill. So such philosophical things such as "letting them define you" don't even exist. There is no question that they define you. Since when has life been what you wanted to be. You never could pick and choose what you wanted the outcome to be. The only thing that you can use to change the future is work, and that won't get rid of your memories lmao.
To wrap this up, it's immature to try and be someone different than who you are. You have anger, so let it out. Emotion is the key to inspiration.
You wish I was that stupid.
I'm not an angry person, you know this. I'm also not a stupid person, I guess you don't know this. You can't mess with me that easily.
Maybe you don't define yourself, Dio, but others define themselves through what they do, not what what happens to them. Vague and simple are not the same. And yes, turning a serious topic into a joke is immaturity.
And please stop applying your own opinions to everyone else, it's an idiotic thing to do.
Do I know these people? If not.. yes you can use them.
Dio is right with the part that they will always be a part of you. But that doesn't mean that you are powerless and have to let them define you the way they want. You can influence their influence. In other words, yes, they will always be a part of you, but you are the one who chooses how to handle that fact in your life.
I disagree, nothing has to stay with you your whole life. Some people can retroactively exclude certain parts of their past from themselves. There are people that decide that certain things that they have been holding onto are no longer a part of them.
Quote from: Longfellow on September 30, 2009, 11:53:48 pm
Quote from: winkio on September 30, 2009, 11:06:00 pm
Quote from: Diokatsu on September 30, 2009, 07:51:13 pm
BTW Winkio, you'd make a great school guidance councilor with advise like "Don't be a target" that really helps me figure out how I should act. *sarcasm* :p
We all had our problems, I had mine. I dealt with mine by putting myself on equal footing with the aggressors instead of taking it. It worked out very well. Just because you disagree with somebody doesn't mean that their opinion is invalid. So yeah, grow up Dio.
Back to the topic, including them in your game means that they are a part of you, as Dio said. Do you WANT them to define you? Just something to think about.
I just, you know, act like I'm smarter and more interesting than my "aggressors." And I end up actually being smarter and more interesting. And therefore, I win. You see, condescension is actually a very, very useful tool, you just have to know how to use it :P
win
I wouldn't say so, winkio. I think deep in our consciousness there are still stains from our past experiences. I personally don't let them control me, but without them I wouldn't be the person I am. I'm not talking about major things. It can be little things, irrelevant things. But those are the things that define me. Though, it is up to me to choose HOW they define me. And I won't let them define me negatively. I chose to learn from those errors and bad experiences to be a better person towards myself and towards others.
Blizz, I'm not doubting what you are saying about yourself. I'm referring to a self-redefinition, which you probably have never had, because you are so focused and confident. A self-redefinition is when someone redefines their self changes their personality and their core beliefs. It's not something that happens very often, and it doesn't always have to be large scale, but when it is, lots of things change, including what defines you. And in this situation, certain things that you once used to define yourself are no longer relevant. It's not that you forget they ever happened. They just don't matter anymore.
So, back to earlier, the more you think about something, the more you will use it to define yourself. And by putting these guys in your game, you are letting them play a larger role in defining you than if you didn't include them.
Quote from: winkio on October 01, 2009, 07:20:40 pm
You wish I was that stupid.
I'm not an angry person, you know this. I'm also not a stupid person, I guess you don't know this. You can't mess with me that easily.
Maybe you don't define yourself, Dio, but others define themselves through what they do, not what what happens to them. Vague and simple are not the same. And yes, turning a serious topic into a joke is immaturity.
And please stop applying your own opinions to everyone else, it's an idiotic thing to do.
Well, i might as well address everything in this post. First off, I don't know you at all winkio and if I were to define you it would be "arrogant". I know full well I'm arrogant myself, also. Secondly, humor isn't a sign of immaturity. Don't know where you picked up that idea. Third, I won't speak for everyone else again, which was quite foolish of me, but you shouldn't either, especially if you intend to rebuke my claim that people are defined by other people's actions. It's my fault for making an absolute statement, but yours for doing the same thing right back at me. Fourthly, I'm not applying my opinions. I'm giving advice.
And Finally, stop attacking everything I do. If you should know anything about me it's that I'm not nearly as serious as any of you. That doesn't change the fact though that when I do get serious, my points aren't to be dismissed as immature. I'm competent and could be just as intelligent as you in these kinds of matters. You don't know if what I'm saying is from personal experience, and I don't know anything about your opinion. So stop saying I'm immature and grow up winkio. you're better than that.
Winner winner chicken dinner! Somebody finally got it! Yes!
Explanations:
1. Correct, you don't know me. All we have to go on is what comes from other people's speech and text.
2. I'm pretty sure you figured out that dismissing others' comments with humor is not a good thing to do.
3. I'm glad you are more aware of the danger of vast generalizations.
4. The applying opinions to others thing went with generalizations, that you applied your opinion on how definitions worked to everyone else.
5. I attack people to get answers that they really mean. It's only really necessary if they are dodging questions or not taking the conversation seriously. You have to admit, your latest post was very good. Reverse psychology = saying you are immature to make you act more mature and involved than normal.
So yeah, points 1-4 add up to show what I thought was wrong from before. Judging by your response, you got most of it.
The on-topicness of these threads is unfrikinbelievable.
QuoteSo, back to earlier, the more you think about something, the more you will use it to define yourself.
thoughts?
EDIT: response to Dio's magical vanishing post:
Quote from: winkio on October 02, 2009, 09:32:09 pm
Winner winner chicken dinner! Somebody finally got it! Yes!
Explanations:
1. Correct, you don't know me. All we have to go on is what comes from other people's speech and text.
2. I'm pretty sure you figured out that dismissing others' comments with humor is not a good thing to do.
3. I'm glad you are more aware of the danger of vast generalizations.
4. The applying opinions to others thing went with generalizations, that you applied your opinion on how definitions worked to everyone else.
5. I attack people to get answers that they really mean. It's only really necessary if they are dodging questions or not taking the conversation seriously. You have to admit, your latest post was very good. Reverse psychology = saying you are immature to make you act more mature and involved than normal.
So yeah, points 1-4 add up to show what I thought was wrong from before. Judging by your response, you got most of it.
The on-topicness of these threads is unfrikinbelievable.
QuoteSo, back to earlier, the more you think about something, the more you will use it to define yourself.
thoughts?
EDIT: response to Dio's magical vanishing post:
I was just trying to help out with a little ad hominem... :V
O_o;;;
@winkio: That's well said. :)
But I did have a self-redefinition. I wasn't always confident and strong. My self-redefinition didn't happen at once, though. It took years.
@Dio: Using humor inappropriately is a sign or immaturity. Also, you walked right into winkio's "trap". It did you well, though. :P
Wait why did my post dissappear.
And no, I didn't learn anything from winkio's post. He just reinforces my belief that he's way too arrogant. Maybe someone other than winkio can sum up what I was supposed to learn so I can stop trying to wade through the unforgiving marsh of his superiority complex.
Quote from: Diokatsu on October 02, 2009, 07:22:31 pm
Well, i might as well address everything in this post. First off, I don't know you at all winkio and if I were to define you it would be "arrogant". I know full well I'm arrogant myself, also. Secondly, humor isn't a sign of immaturity. Don't know where you picked up that idea. Third, I won't speak for everyone else again, which was quite foolish of me, but you shouldn't either, especially if you intend to rebuke my claim that people are defined by other people's actions. It's my fault for making an absolute statement, but yours for doing the same thing right back at me. Fourthly, I'm not applying my opinions. I'm giving advice.
And Finally, stop attacking everything I do. If you should know anything about me it's that I'm not nearly as serious as any of you. That doesn't change the fact though that when I do get serious, my points aren't to be dismissed as immature. I'm competent and could be just as intelligent as you in these kinds of matters. You don't know if what I'm saying is from personal experience, and I don't know anything about your opinion. So stop saying I'm immature and grow up winkio. you're better than that.
That post pretty much said it all. You got everything (well, only halfway on the humor part, but w/e). You directly acknowledged the solutions to the bad parts of your first post, and used a completely changed mindset. Yes, there was a lot of other garbage in there that was just you venting anger, but you were dead on track. You finished my argument for me. :)
And don't blame me for your disappearing post. I saw it, but by the time I responded, it wasn't there.
BTW you should look up superiority complex, because you don't completely understand it. That's more like someone else in this thread that dismisses whatever other people are doing like they are too good for it. Hint: it's not Blizzard...
Quote from: winkio on October 06, 2009, 09:56:53 pm
Hint: it's not Blizzard...
Is it me? O_O
Umm anyways, I think that it isn't ethically wrong to symbolize these people through your game as people in jail or whatnot. But if it's a direct reference to them, then I think you're supposed to have their consent, regardless of whether it's good or bad. I think unless of course you state that the reasons are strictly for satire or something of that sort (correct me if I'm wrong). But I think that only applies if it's a commercial game. Since I don't think it is, legal laws don't really apply to it as much. In terms of whether it will do you any good or not, well, I can't really answer that. I think that people have their own unique ways of venting and expressing themselves. If you think that it will help you, then by all means. But if it's going to just make you recall what they've done to you, why bother? Ultimately, I think you have to decide for yourself if it's something that you can do. But if it were me, I might include them. Just to say, "hey, this is what happens when you act this way" and to give them a sort of punishment. I think I'm the type of person who'd find solace in that sort of fantasy thinking. Just knowing that sort of thing might just let me go on.
@Dio: It doesn't matter who deleted your post. It's the staff's duty to delete such degrading posts especially here in ID where flaming is prohibited and punishable harder than anywhere else. Pull yourself together or stop posting if you can't handle the situation.
I hate to say it, but you guys have completely gone off-topic. Please say something relevant, and if not, settle it peacefully via pm.
Like I said earlier, it's okay to symbolize people in your game. Like, you can have these kids as prison guys, but it is not acceptable to directly reference them. I think that if you do that, you're liable to get sued by them, or you can get into even more trouble if they somehow found out. As for not including them because you're "above" that.. I'd have to disagree. You can easily use them as a way of conveying a message to the players that if you act this way, you'll end up like that. It all depends on how you interpret it, I think.
Quote from: Fallen Angel X on October 07, 2009, 02:42:24 pm
I hate to say it, but you guys have completely gone off-topic. Please say something relevant, and if not, settle it peacefully via pm.
Like I said earlier, it's okay to symbolize people in your game. Like, you can have these kids as prison guys, but it is not acceptable to directly reference them. I think that if you do that, you're liable to get sued by them, or you can get into even more trouble if they somehow found out. As for not including them because you're "above" that.. I'd have to disagree. You can easily use them as a way of conveying a message to the players that if you act this way, you'll end up like that. It all depends on how you interpret it, I think.
hehe, suing for putting them in an rpg maker game, USING first and last names. D:
I would watch that case on tv. (which would probably end up showing on g4)
If you put a disclaimer that every similarity with real people is just a coincidence, you can get away unpunished. :P
Yes, but if they were to find out in any way, they may choose to retalliate. Of course, that only applies if your game isn't distributed at all. Even if you share it with your friends, there is that possibility that those people will find out. That's why a direct reference isn't very good.
Can't you just have some person extremely similar to that fellow and all that's changed is the name? If those guys don't have rocks for brains, they'll never realize it's a reference pointing to them (Unless there's some direct reference). I mean, copying personality traits is one thing (That's acceptable ?), but copying things that are truly unique and special (Names for example) on that individual might be troublesome.
Quote from: Fallen Angel X on October 06, 2009, 10:35:33 pm
Quote from: winkio on October 06, 2009, 09:56:53 pm
Hint: it's not Blizzard...
Is it me? O_O
Umm anyways, I think that it isn't ethically wrong to symbolize these people through your game as people in jail or whatnot. But if it's a direct reference to them, then I think you're supposed to have their consent, regardless of whether it's good or bad. I think unless of course you state that the reasons are strictly for satire or something of that sort (correct me if I'm wrong). But I think that only applies if it's a commercial game. Since I don't think it is, legal laws don't really apply to it as much. In terms of whether it will do you any good or not, well, I can't really answer that. I think that people have their own unique ways of venting and expressing themselves. If you think that it will help you, then by all means. But if it's going to just make you recall what they've done to you, why bother? Ultimately, I think you have to decide for yourself if it's something that you can do. But if it were me, I might include them. Just to say, "hey, this is what happens when you act this way" and to give them a sort of punishment. I think I'm the type of person who'd find solace in that sort of fantasy thinking. Just knowing that sort of thing might just let me go on.
Me, obviously. I mean, my entire on-topic post in this thread was "I'm better than others." That
screams superiority complex, whether I have on or not.