Speaking Out

Started by winkio, March 24, 2010, 10:34:09 am

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winkio

In the world we live in, we value other people's opinions.  In fact, we value them so much that even if they are completely horrible, we will hesitate to speak out against them.

Question 1:  Just because we value diversity of opinion, does it mean that we must always hesitate to criticize the opinions of others?
Question 2:  What makes an opinion "wrong"
Question 3:  In what manner could one speak out against a "wrong" opinion?




"There is no such thing as a "wrong" opinion" is ironically an example of a wrong opinion.
People who think that everyone who is not of their religion should be killed have a wrong opinion.

Caligatio

Quote from: Arceus on March 24, 2010, 10:34:09 am
In the world we live in, we value other people's opinions.  In fact, we value them so much that even if they are completely horrible, we will hesitate to speak out against them.

Question 1:  Just because we value diversity of opinion, does it mean that we must always hesitate to criticize the opinions of others?
Question 2:  What makes an opinion "wrong"
Question 3:  In what manner could one speak out against a "wrong" opinion?




"There is no such thing as a "wrong" opinion" is ironically an example of a wrong opinion.
People who think that everyone who is not of their religion should be killed have a wrong opinion.


We must not hesitate to criticize, yet we still do. Why? Because we are afraid to hurt other people's feelings. But why is that then? I have seriously no clue. Most people just have trouble with hurting each other's feelings.
An opinion is wrong, in my opinion, when you really try to take away anyone else's feeling of freedom
We cannot. We can only try to let the other person see that we think that their opinion is wrong.

(Hexamin)

Where do you live where people hesitate to voice their opinions?  Why do you think we argue so much in nearly every aspect of life?  We, as humans, cursed with humanity, fear the unknown and cling onto the paradigms we build in our minds.  That's why people are so eager to voice their own opinions, in a desperate attempt to cling onto the delusions we've made for ourselves to feel safe and secure.  Most people remain close-minded and shut out other people's opinions entirely due to the inability to comprehend an unknown world.  Fear of the unknown leads to small minds.  People should actively embrace other opinions; if it's been thought, it's existed.  If that thought had a thought of it's own, it's existed.  We're merely a random combination of photons arranging themselves again and again to create our current dimension of this universe.  In fact, who's to say that it's not just one photon moving at incomprehensible speeds that creates every atom, every thought, everything that we've ever known?  This photon... is God.

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winkio

QuoteI don't think we should do anything about climate change
We should teach creationism
Lazy people steal my taxes


If people are speaking out so much, then why do these opinions still exist unopposed?

Diokatsu

You're oversimplifying things. There are many different types of opinions some of which need to be backed with objective fact, others which can stand as they are and be completely valid, and others which have no perhaps factual evidence but instead use logic to discourse until they reach a conclusion.

My opinion: Who cares? You and I are nothing in the grand scope of all the universe. Once humanity ends, it won't matter. Objective. Fact.

winkio

Quote from: Gym Leader Diokatsu on March 24, 2010, 06:49:50 pm
You're oversimplifying things. [...]

My opinion: Who cares? You and I are nothing in the grand scope of all the universe. Once humanity ends, it won't matter. Objective. Fact.

I don't know if I was supposed to take that seriously or not... 

I was just giving general examples that many Americans are familiar with.

(Hexamin)

I could easily find news articles where people have voiced their opinions against the three things you listed.  It's all relative; however, and doesn't really matter.  It doesn't affect individuals, and if it does, then that individual doesn't have control over him/herself.  Opinions just allow us to live in our own deranged worlds.
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Blizzard

March 25, 2010, 04:42:40 am #7 Last Edit: March 25, 2010, 07:05:06 am by Blizzard
Quote from: Arceus on March 24, 2010, 05:46:43 pm
If people are speaking out so much, then why do these opinions still exist unopposed?


Because not everybody has an open mind and respects the opinion of others. Have you ever talked to a fanatic? Regardless of how absurd their opinion or belief is, they hold onto it as if their life depends of it. You'd have to spend days, maybe weeks convincing the person that their opinion isn't right.
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Quote from: winkioI do not speak to bricks, either as individuals or in wall form.

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Fantasist

March 25, 2010, 07:43:53 am #8 Last Edit: March 25, 2010, 07:47:04 am by Mad Scientist Fantasist
QuoteIn the world we live in, we value other people's opinions.  In fact, we value them so much that even if they are completely horrible, we will hesitate to speak out against them.

I'll have to respectfully disagree here. I second Hexamin on this one, to some extent. There are a fair share of people who wouldn't hesitate a second to voice their opinion, even if they know they will hurt others. I've seen them, I've had the misfortune of having to deal with them.
Assuming we are talking about people who do value others opinions, here's my answer.

QuoteQuestion 1:  Just because we value diversity of opinion, does it mean that we must always hesitate to criticize the opinions of others?

Not really. It is because we value the diversity of opinion, because we believe everyone is entitled to their own opinion, that we have the right to voice our own. But the most important thing is not the opinion itself, but how it's expressed. I think you get the point, but I can't resist:
For this statement: The Earth is flat.
There are two ways of responding:
1. What a load of bull! Look at this moron! Everyone knows the Earth is round! lol! :P
2. Actually, I think the Earth is round.

QuoteQuestion 2:  What makes an opinion "wrong"

Factual evidence, it's as simple as that. Of course, one can bring up the authenticity of the produced factual evidence, which is a different story (or is it?).

QuoteQuestion 3:  In what manner could one speak out against a "wrong" opinion?

Respectfully, and sensitively, providing factual evidence if possible.
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Diokatsu

Quote from: Mad Scientist Fantasist on March 25, 2010, 07:43:53 am
QuoteQuestion 2:  What makes an opinion "wrong"

Factual evidence, it's as simple as that. Of course, one can bring up the authenticity of the produced factual evidence, which is a different story (or is it?).

Facts and logic are meaningless in the face of the whole of humanity. Emotion, not logic, is the key to moving the peoples' heart. Tell a man the poor suffer and he can tell you it's their own fault. Show a man a world riddled by disease and starvation and he seldom would come out thinking that change isn't necessary. He wasn't moved by logic, but by his heart. There a few people who can look at statistics and truly visualize the horror they depict, but many people can drink in suffering through the pictures and videos they watch. We feel with our eyes not our ears.

Also, not all opinions can be back by facts, and not all of them should. If this world were to become objectivist or utilitarian, I'm sure we could justify our own opinions and choices with logic, but the choices we'd be making would sacrifice the greater half of humanity: emotion.

And I truly believe there is no such thing as a wrong opinion. There are, however, wrong actions and intentions. You have privilege to think whatever you may in my opinion.

Fantasist

I acknowledge every word you said about emotions, I know how important they are. But I'm assuming that a discussion is lead by logic and not emotion. Note that I didn't say a discussion is devoid of emotion!

Also, it depends on the person whether his actions are based on his emotional state or by logic. Different people have different proportions regarding this aspect.
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Diokatsu

True. I wasn't criticizing you, but taking the opportunity your post gave me to say something some people might not realize.

Blizzard

I agree, Dio. It's the eyes that deliver about 90% of all the information about our surroundings after all.
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Quote from: winkioI do not speak to bricks, either as individuals or in wall form.

Quote from: Barney StinsonWhen I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

Tyril132

March 31, 2010, 06:03:17 pm #13 Last Edit: March 31, 2010, 06:07:43 pm by Tyril132
Opinions should not be summarily dismissed, but not all opinions are worthy of consideration.

Anyone can form a completely baseless opinion that holds absolutely no merit in fact: "I believe that trees are made of strawberry ice-cream." is an opinion. Logically speaking, this "opinion" is provably wrong. We can analyze a tree and methodically prove beyond any reasonable doubt that trees are not made of ice cream. This is not a credible opinion, and as such, is "wrong."

Less absurd opinions are often more difficult to classify. The basic concepts of justice and morality are almost uniformly held throughout history. If you ask a random person on the street if they feel a person who murders another human being for no plausible reason should be punished, their answer will almost universally be "Yes." Yet, morality is not something that can be logically defined; it is not something that can be empirically verified. This is an opinion that has been indoctrinated through culture and community.

Different cultural or life experiences will inevitably lead to differing and oftentimes conflicting views. As neither party can truly support their claim, the only thing they can rationally do is attempt to explain their position given the context.

"I believe murderers should be punished because the justice system promotes a method of behavior which advances human interests by ensuring everyone has the right to life." Is a "correct" opinion, not because of its anti-murder stance, but because it provides a viable context to frame the basis of the opinion.

"Murderers should be punished because murder is wrong" is a fundamentally "wrong" opinion, because it has no logical context. On what basis is murder wrong?

As Hexamin said,
QuoteOpinions just allow us to live in our own deranged worlds.


Since "correct" opinions are subjective, a person who has a "correct" opinion may be able to emphasize with your point of view and their opinion may change slightly to conform to yours, but you will generally not "replace" someone else's opinion with yours.
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