Chaos Project

General => Chat => Intelligent Debate => Topic started by: Blizzard on April 23, 2012, 03:19:43 pm

Title: The Effects of Emasculation
Post by: Blizzard on April 23, 2012, 03:19:43 pm
aka: How today's men are pussies.

http://manhood101.com/media.html
Title: Re: The Effects of Emasculation
Post by: Subsonic_Noise on April 23, 2012, 03:43:09 pm
aka: Bullshit. :P
Title: Re: The Effects of Emasculation
Post by: Blizzard on April 23, 2012, 03:47:19 pm
Did you watch the first 2 movies or not? They are together almost half an hour.

I can only say that I see this kind of behavior all around me all the time. Not to talk about the fact that it's being reinforced by the media.
Title: Re: The Effects of Emasculation
Post by: Calintz on April 23, 2012, 06:28:39 pm
i'm very happy that you posted this Blizzard. this is more than just bullshit. this is more than just men being pussies. this is an epidemic that is spreading like the plague. it's a truly scary thing and i mean this from the bottom of my heart; these two films disgust me with how true they are. i watched both episodes of emasculation.

My Reasoning - from personal experience
Spoiler: ShowHide
it's kind of hard to admit this because i've risen above it by this point in my life, but growing up i was raised primarily by a single mom, and so i too would exhibit that same sense of conservative behavior of an emasculated man. even nowadays a bit of my upbringing will trickle out here and there, but things are changing for me. i do have a dad, and by no means has he ever neglected any of his children, but he was an electrician for the navy and he was very respected by the navy. being that he had such a strong responsibility with the navy, he was forced to be overseas pretty much all the time, which left my mom to raise us three kids practically by herself.

i moved out of my mom's house when i was twenty. i'm twenty two now, and i simply can't believe how much my life has changed (my personality and beliefs specifically) now that i'm free of her influence. i would never tell her that, nor would i ever tell her this; i've always believed that the way she raised us (evidence of feministic values) actually hindered my ability to develop into the man i "should" have become sooner. without a father figure to contradict her beliefs, or even to simply provide a second side to her story for me to evaluate; i grew up believing only what my mom had raised me to believe, and so i was basically a man molded by women's logic. (aka - pathetic. again, hard to admit)

i love my mother to death, but i just cannot believe how WRONG she was when it comes to how she raised me to behave as a man. men and women are two different breeds my friends and you're living in the dark if you truly believe we are the same, or even equal. if you're a man raised by a single mom and you don't straighten yourself out somewhere down the road before you reach full maturity, buckle up pal, because your life is gonna be hard (there are exceptions).

now that i'm free of her influence; i'm evolving each day into a more independent man, and it's becoming obvious that i have more of my father's beliefs and values, and i'm ecstatic about it! i'm really coming into my own and i've begun to live for myself, under my own rules and it's shocking how similar it turns out that i am to my father even though he wasn't around to raise me. i'm happy it worked out that way too, because while followed the guidelines of life that my mother set for me i a pushover. girls trampled all over me; nice guys finish last for sure.

nowadays, i get laid when i want. women are at MY feet, and boy it's a wonderful thing! it's not just that though; i've never been more proud to be a man, nor have i ever been happier in my life. that is why i hate that this is an issue. i've never been happier in my life, but some men will never know what i feel, because their mother's influence was so strong that they never got the opportunity to live for themselves, for who they are and what they want.
Title: Re: The Effects of Emasculation
Post by: Subsonic_Noise on April 23, 2012, 07:38:41 pm
Meh. I don't agree with either of both extremes. I'm not what's decribed in the video and I'm not the oh-so-idealized manly man, I'm a healthy mix of both, and perfectly happy with it. I support feminism (I'm talking reasonable feminism here, not "Oh god skyscrapers are symbols for penises") and see people as equal and give them respect regardless of gender. People are worrying about things like this far too much. Some men are gonna be submissive, and some women will, and from my point of view there's no way someone -has- to behave. If a man is a so-called pussy and doesn't get laid because of that, it's his thing. If he wants to change that to get laid, he can, and if he doesn't, that's perfectly fine. I don't think there's anything wrong with men acting femine either. I know some that do and they are perfectly fine people.

To stop ranting and sum up what I'm trying to say, people are making too much fuzz about how others -should-  or -should not- behave according to their gender. It doesn't matter, and it doesn't hurt you. Behave whatever you want to behave like, and allow others the same right.
Title: Re: The Effects of Emasculation
Post by: G_G on April 23, 2012, 07:46:22 pm
Quote from: Subsonic_Noise on April 23, 2012, 07:38:41 pm
Meh. I don't agree with either of both extremes. I'm not what's decribed in the video and I'm not the oh-so-idealized manly man, I'm a healthy mix of both, and perfectly happy with it. I support feminism (I'm talking reasonable feminism here, not "Oh god skyscrapers are symbols for penises") and see people as equal and give them respect regardless of gender. People are worrying about things like this far too much. Some men are gonna be submissive, and some women will, and from my point of view there's no way someone -has- to behave. If a man is a so-called pussy and doesn't get laid because of that, it's his thing. If he wants to change that to get laid, he can, and if he doesn't, that's perfectly fine. I don't think there's anything wrong with men acting femine either. I know some that do and they are perfectly fine people.

To stop ranting and sum up what I'm trying to say, people are making too much fuzz about how others -should-  or -should not- behave according to their gender. It doesn't matter, and it doesn't hurt you. Behave whatever you want to behave like, and allow others the same right.


I agree with this 100%.
Title: Re: The Effects of Emasculation
Post by: Calintz on April 23, 2012, 07:52:45 pm
so if a women decides that she wants to behave in a manner that allows her to slap a man across his face, she has that right!? if that's true, then you agree that man should be allowed to slap her back and NOT be criticized or beaten by multiple men in response for it? i don't want to get into a real debate about it, because the truth is it's pointless, but i absolutely agree that feminism is directly involved with man's increasingly submissive nature over the years.
Title: Re: The Effects of Emasculation
Post by: Subsonic_Noise on April 23, 2012, 08:05:55 pm
Quote from: Calintz on April 23, 2012, 07:52:45 pm
so if a women decides that she wants to behave in a manner that allows her to slap a man across his face, she has that right!? if that's true, then you agree that man should be allowed to slap her back and NOT be criticized or beaten by multiple men in response for it? i don't want to get into a real debate about it, because the truth is it's pointless, but i absolutely agree that feminism is directly involved with man's increasingly submissive nature over the years.

Yes women can slap men and men can slap them back if they do. If they choose not to, it's their thing. I personally never had a women slap me or even act like a bitch to me at all. :P Sucks to be people who sourround themselves with those who do. And no, feminism, in its original intention, has nothing to do with men being submissive. Maybe some of the extremes that emerged from it, yes. But in general there's just as little wrong with a submissive man as with an submissive women if it works for them. :P
Title: Re: The Effects of Emasculation
Post by: Calintz on April 23, 2012, 08:27:46 pm
Lol, i share some of your opinions there. i don't even think it's wrong to be a mangina (one less guy i have to compete with :naughty:) but it's not for me, that's for sure. to be honest, i definitely don't consider myself a true manly man either, in fact, i'm probably more like you than anything in that i'm a nice blend of both.

what sucks is that when you fight back against a woman you are literally punished by law for defending yourself and your pride. maybe the true idea of feminism was never meant to have the effects that it has, but you simply can't deny it's influence on men. whether you believe it to be negative or positive is all you, but i believe it to be a negative influence. personally, i'm proud to be a man and to see men on leashes disgusts me. when ANY man submits to a women it only means to satisfy her crazy ass ego and contribute to deface everything it means to be a man (as most men were raised to believe). it doesn't happen in that very instance, but when a woman controls a man she grows from it. eventually, she begins to believe she can treat all men that way and that it's normal. and so she does, until the crazy bitch meets a guy who won't take her shit and wants to put her in her place. but as a society, we've made it illegal to do that! WTF!? i'm sorry, but just because a woman was able to completely manipulate the men she's been with thus far, does not mean that every man (me) will tolerate her behavior. when it finally gets to the point that she physically abuses you, and by law you can only be beaten by her until she decides she's done, i think we've made a mistake or took a wrong turn somewhere, that's all.

this may not be the best example, but the fact of the matter is that most men could kill about 75% or more of the women on this planet with their bare hands. this means we are not equal, Lol. to fight against the natural way of things and declare equality is almost to go against nature itself. IDK...
Title: Re: The Effects of Emasculation
Post by: Subsonic_Noise on April 23, 2012, 08:48:08 pm
You're misunderstanding the concept of equality completely. :P Besides, the times when physical strengh defines social rank is long gone. You're stuck in the past there. :P
It's about equal chances and equal duties. A women should earn the same money for doing the same work, for example, which is, sadly, still not happening. It's also about men and women having equal chances to get a job, getting the same state benefits, women not being seen as posession of men... in general, it's about equal political, economic, and social rights, and not men and women being the exact same.
By the way, I've faught back to women who did things that weren't alright all the time and never got into problems with the law. No law limits your free speech in that case :P

Quoteto see men on leashes disgusts me


Here's the problem. Maybe they're not "on leashes". Maybe they like it the way they have it. Even if they don't, you spend way too much time bothering with what other men do.

I'm sorry to hear about your traumatic experiences with women though. :P You wanna talk about it?
Title: Re: The Effects of Emasculation
Post by: Calintz on April 23, 2012, 09:42:27 pm
no...i think you misunderstood the example i gave, Lol. let me quote myself quick;
Quote from: Calintz on April 23, 2012, 08:27:46 pmthis may not be the best example,
the example means only that men and women are not equal by nature in their existence, which is a fact, not just my opinion. we are two very different creatures. if two things are not equal in nature, why must they have equal rights? that statement doesn't mean i believe that men deserve more rights than women, (because i don't) and it also doesn't mean i'm against women fighting for equal rights, (because i'm not. to date, their fight for their version of equality does not affect me) but let's face it; they ARE fighting for THEIR version of equality, which is made painfully clear in the videos that Blizzard posted. also, if you want to believe that physical prowess is no longer a factor in the world, then it's you my friend who is mistaken. i don't see nearly as many women lining up to work in coal mines or fight for our country as i do men, and i'm not about to sugar coat it; it's because the vast majority of women can't handle it and or they don't desire it, but we should let them manage billion dollar corporations because that's fair! pretending that physical prowess no longer exists just because we're not waging wars with swords anymore or conquering nations is purely ignorant.

Lol, i wasn't referring to free speech. actions speak louder than words. this will always be true, so when a women hits a man and he wants to hit her back; he should not get in trouble. this is sadly not the case.

easy tiger...i'm in this for the debate, let's not make it personal! :naughty:
but to set the record straight, i haven't had bad experiences with girls. it's just that when i was in high school, i just didn't get the girls because i was so submissive. now that i'm not, it's much simpler to get them. make no mistake; any girl worth having does not want a submissive man. if a women wants a submissive man, it's because she wants to be in control, and i'm not down with that! for the most part. :naughty:
Title: Re: The Effects of Emasculation
Post by: winkio on April 23, 2012, 09:50:46 pm
Quote from: Calintz on April 23, 2012, 09:42:27 pmalso, if you want to believe that physical prowess is no longer a factor in the world, then it's you my friend who is mistaken. i don't see nearly as many women lining up to work in coal mines or fight for our country as i do men, and i'm not about to sugar coat it; it's because the vast majority of women can't handle it and or they don't desire it, but we should let them manage billion dollar corporations because that's fair! pretending that physical prowess no longer exists just because we're not waging wars with swords anymore or conquering nations is purely ignorant.


Why does anything physical matter if both women and men can manage accounts and lead corporations with billions of dollars in profits?  Both sexes have the same intellectual potential, and that is the dominant qualifying trait in the modern technological world.
Title: Re: The Effects of Emasculation
Post by: Calintz on April 23, 2012, 10:05:58 pm
it doesn't, but where were the women when it came to the back-breaking work? i guess for me it just comes down to respect and earning your way to the top. and that's not to say that they don't ever earn it because they do, i'm just saying that it was man who paved the streets. it was man who built the buildings. so don't get me wrong, i don't care if a women obtains a management role of some sort, but i'm not gonna tell the world it was wrong that a corporation chose a man over a woman simply because he was a man, after all he built the damn thing, Lol.
Title: Re: The Effects of Emasculation
Post by: winkio on April 23, 2012, 10:28:46 pm
Where are all the male secretaries, cleaning staff, etc?  Some jobs appeal more to one sex than the other, does it really make that big of a difference?
Title: Re: The Effects of Emasculation
Post by: G_G on April 23, 2012, 10:32:15 pm
But men weren't the only ones who built this country. There are plenty of female construction workers out there working their asses off to live in today's world. Women deserve the equal opportunity to prove themselves in this world. Some women do it with their intelligence, while others do it with their physical abilities. Just because you don't see many women doing the hard work doesn't mean anything. Most women I know are far more intellectual than any male I've met, so why waste it on physical activity when their abilities could be used elsewhere? Putting biased gender roles aside, it all comes down to a matter of who you are, what you enjoy doing, your abilities you gain throughout your life, what you want to accomplish with your life, and how you're going to get there.
Title: Re: The Effects of Emasculation
Post by: ForeverZer0 on April 23, 2012, 10:41:36 pm
Quote from: winkio on April 23, 2012, 10:28:46 pm
Where are all the male secretaries, cleaning staff, etc?  Some jobs appeal more to one sex than the other, does it really make that big of a difference?


QTF.

@G_G:
You do realize that you tried to discount stereotypes by making one?
Title: Re: The Effects of Emasculation
Post by: Calintz on April 23, 2012, 10:49:58 pm
@Winkio:
male nurses are everywhere! :ninja:

@Game_Guy:
from the census of america
Spoiler: ShowHide
one thing it shows is how the income gap between male and female workers is narrower in construction than in several other fields. Men represented 90.6 percent of all construction workers last year, and the median income for full-time year-round male employees was $38,823, compared to $36,593 for full-time, year-round female construction workers.

i fervently disagree that just because 90% of construction workers are men that they deserve that extra $2000, but i'm not going to say it's wrong.


@Winkio & Game_Guy:
i hope you guys understand that i'm simply in this for the debate! i agree with many of the things you guys are saying, which is why i constantly repeat myself, saying that it doesn't bother me when a women gets those roles. in fact, i've personally seen women manage companies better than men.

edit:
okay that's a lie...i haven't personally seen it, but i hear good things! Lol.
Title: Re: The Effects of Emasculation
Post by: ForeverZer0 on April 23, 2012, 11:40:07 pm
To say that a man deserves the extra $2000 salary because "men built this country" is ludicrous. I would have accepted a lot of different answers there, but that makes no sense. The man getting the extra money didn't do it. Same as no American today is guilty of the slavery that occurred by our ancestors over 200 years ago. You cannot pick and choose. You either accept both, or none.

I don't think anyone here doubts that both men and women can be equally competent at a job, so I don't see why people keep going off on tangents arguing it. No one is debating it. Obviously there are going to be jobs that are more gender based, that's a fact of life, and no one should make apologies for it. Men, as an overwhelming majority, will be better at jobs that require hard physical labor. Men are larger and stronger as the species. On the flip side, women, as a the majority, excel better at nurturing jobs, such as daycare, hospice care, etc., because they instinctively are better at nurturing.

These are facts. Sure, there are many exceptions. Does that mean anything? No, it means there are exceptions. Does it mean that one sex is "better" or more "deserving" than the other? Of course not. It just simple facts. It means nothing. As winkio said, its just that certain roles are better as a whole carried out by one gender, its not an insult to anyone to say so.

EDIT:
I moved to Intelligent Debate. This is likely an omen that it will soon turn into a troll-fest, as seems the normal par for the course.
Title: Re: The Effects of Emasculation
Post by: G_G on April 24, 2012, 12:03:28 am
Quote from: ForeverZer0 on April 23, 2012, 10:41:36 pm
You do realize that you tried to discount stereotypes by making one?


Dammit you know what I meant. >.<
Title: Re: The Effects of Emasculation
Post by: Calintz on April 24, 2012, 12:04:32 am
@ForeverZer0:
umm, i disagreed that they deserved more money...Lol.

ANYWAY! my favorite part of the clips was the samuel l. jackson part!
Title: Re: The Effects of Emasculation
Post by: GrimTrigger on April 24, 2012, 01:46:11 am
I've noticed this, and discussed it with friends, both male and female.

This is what we've come up with (All things mentioned are my opinions based on what I've observed.)

1. Removal of the male in parenting.

In my opinion (before people jump down my throat without reading) I think a big problem is that the male is being relegated to a "pay for it" role in terms of parenting. I see, on TV, real life, movies, and literature, the role of the father increasingly becoming nothing more than a wallet. On the other hand, mothers, (especially single mothers) are shown as the "do-it-all" masters of child-rearing. IMHO, it is difficult for a woman to raise a boy to be a man. She can raise him to be a well-meaning, well-mannered adult, but I've noticed a direct correlation between a time a father spends with his son, and the level of masculinity the kid possesses. This is not simply the female's fault. Everyone can be blamed for this, as many men seem to think "paying for it" is the only thing they need to do as a father. This of course isn't an ironclad rule, but something I've noticed. It's a shame that in in today's media it's popular to portray a husband/father as an idiot. I think this works to drive the male out of the parenting realm. This leads me to my next theory.

2. Male bashing media.

Turn on the TV, and you'll notice the plethora of programs where the husband is portrayed as simple, unintelligent, and obsessed with base-desires like food, sex, and sports. While guys do think about these things a lot, you almost never see a smart, deep male character with a lame slob of a wife who he constantly ridicules and gets away with it. (This is not always the case, but I'm speaking from what I've seen. INB4 omg "x" show has.....) I believe this stems from the "popularity" of seeing a woman "win" or "put her husband in his place." Marketers know what sells, and male bashing is one of them. (On the flip side, objectifying woman is still prevalent, thus marketers are the devil on both sides of the gender fence. See Bill Hicks for further explanation on Marketers. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDW_Hj2K0wo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDW_Hj2K0wo)

3. Political Correctness Abuse

Pretty self-explanatory, but essentially (IMO) you can almost never criticize females on their wrong-doings, yet men are given the axe. This was heavily prevalent on my college campus, as well as in public discourse (news, etc.) Boys begin to feel pressured to "go with the flow" and follow what is popular opinion. If an issue is negatively affecting boys/men, they aren't given the time of day.

4. Really really REALLY bad advice.

Boys are simply given really *****y advice when it comes to life, women, and their own gender identity these days, (IMO.) Tying in with the points above, boys are taught to act *nice* and essentially be push-overs, providers, etc. Of course, I'm not advocating all men act like jerks, but I definitely think men need to realize many of them are being bred to be doormats. I've been told by girls when I was younger (never take advice about girls from girls btw) that you need to always pay, bring flowers, treat her like a princess, do what she says, etc etc. That doesn't work, and guys I've seen who do this wind up foreveralone, or making the girlfriend/wife resent them for being such a pansy. Also, boys are being raised to resist their gender identity, and in many ways, emulate girls. I saw this all throughout school. Perhaps it's just easier to teach if everyone is same? This is not claiming that girls are inherently wussies, but claiming that guys' path to manhood doesn't involve emulating a woman. I think we'd make great progress if we came to realize that men and women can both be equally successful in almost all fields, but they may prefer different routes to get their.

The biggest offender (IMHO) is teaching boys that they "need" a girl or they will be seen as weird. Boys need to learn how to be men, from other men, and focus on figuring out their own identity, dreams, etc. No man (or woman) should feel they "need" the other to be complete, (IMO.) I highly doubt a woman would be interested in a needy man anyway. This is why strong, positive male role models are essential, just like strong, positive female role models are needed for girls.


My recommendation to fix this:

Opt-Out of the Matrix

Stop giving your dollars/time/consent to shows, movies, programs that bash men and promote boys to emulate girls or act like doormats. Let your distaste for such things be heard, and stick up for a brother if he's being attacked for doing the same. Economics says whatever you subsidize, you get more of (generally) so they longer men buy into a system that is hostile to them, you're fighting a losing battle. Vote with your dollars, since the polls won't save you.

Stop dealing with women who buy into the whole "boys are stupid, throw rocks at them" mentality. There are plenty of great women who hate these kinds of girls, so no sense in settling for a man-hater. Once women see they can't get away with misandry and find a boyfriend/husband, they *hopefully* will change their tune. If not, at least you dodged a bullet.

Stop letting women have all the say when it comes to raising boys. Take the time to be a positive, masculine role model in a young boys life. My father did this for me, and not a day goes buy that I'm not grateful. Teach a boy how to *actually* deal with girls, how to compete, how to follow his passions regardless of what the peanut gallery thinks. Show him it's OK to embrace his gender, rather than be ashamed of it. One thing I was told by my father was to not listen to music for advice on women. I instantly noticed almost all songs about girls are full of pathetic, almost stalker-ish behavior. Makes for good music, but not always the best advice for the real world.


Just my $0.02.

~Grim
Title: Re: The Effects of Emasculation
Post by: Blizzard on April 24, 2012, 03:40:10 am
Quote from: Subsonic_Noise on April 23, 2012, 07:38:41 pm
Meh. I don't agree with either of both extremes. I'm not what's decribed in the video and I'm not the oh-so-idealized manly man, I'm a healthy mix of both, and perfectly happy with it. I support feminism (I'm talking reasonable feminism here, not "Oh god skyscrapers are symbols for penises") and see people as equal and give them respect regardless of gender. People are worrying about things like this far too much. Some men are gonna be submissive, and some women will, and from my point of view there's no way someone -has- to behave. If a man is a so-called pussy and doesn't get laid because of that, it's his thing. If he wants to change that to get laid, he can, and if he doesn't, that's perfectly fine. I don't think there's anything wrong with men acting femine either. I know some that do and they are perfectly fine people.

To stop ranting and sum up what I'm trying to say, people are making too much fuzz about how others -should-  or -should not- behave according to their gender. It doesn't matter, and it doesn't hurt you. Behave whatever you want to behave like, and allow others the same right.


I don't really agree with this. Of course, everybody should live their life as they see fit. But the problem isn't whether you act according to your gender or not, the problem is that you don't act the way you actually want. Most men are actually not happy to be emasculated. This can be observed by their behavioral patterns. They are usually frustrated and not happy with themselves, they don't stand up for themselves. This indicates that they are not acting how they actually want. They have been fed with the wrong beliefs for their whole lives and they are not even aware of this. In a sense they are unhappy and they don't know why.
Sure, there are men who are feminine and not as "manly" as other men, but you can tell the difference between somebody who's naturally a more feminine person from somebody who is acting like one because that's how they have been told their entire life. You can compare it to the analogy of a gay man trying to his his homosexuality and trying to act like a heterosexual the whole time in front of his friends. There is a huge difference.

I'm really not sure how good feminism is of an idea. I really do believe in the equality of gender, but each gender has strengths and weaknesses. I don't believe that the genders should try to reverse roles this extremely because it obviously doesn't work. Men on leashes are not happy and hardcore feminists are always angry and frustrated. I really have to yet meet a feminist woman who is not the least bit off. So far every feminist I have met has serious psychological issues with overcompensation, ego and lack of self-confidence and self-esteem. I am for independence, but feminism doesn't look like independence for me. It looks to me like independence when they feel like it. :/

As for equality, IMO this is a bad word for it. Equivalency is much better. Men and women are not "equals" (as in "the same"), they are equivalent (as in "having the same value").

As for the slapping, I agree. If she slaps me, I can decide to slap her back. I wouldn't slap her first because I don't believe in violence. But if I get attacked, I will defend myself. The problem is the possibility of the crap that is shown to happen in the videos: Bitch slaps guy, police stands still, then Guy slaps back and police are all over him. :/
Oh well, there's always the possibility of catching her hand in mid-air and stopping her. But you have to be able to read people well and have good reflexes for that. xD

@Calintz: There were periods in my life (mostly the earlier teenage years) where my father wasn't around either. I don't blame him, I know the reasons and I know he chose the lesser of 2 evils. But my mother's influence in that part did do some damage. Though, I don't blame here for this either. There are many good things my mother has taught me. Just because there were many wrong things, doesn't mean she was a bad mother. Actually on the contrary, I probably had a better mother than most people. In any case after I got more independent, I have learned the right values in life to become a real man. I still believe in values like being chivalrous, maybe even a gentleman, etc. But there is a limit to things. I will not be kind to a person who's being a dick/bitch. In fact I will actually strike back 2-3 times harder because I don't allow people to take their shit out on me. I will be a gentleman to a person whom I believe deserves it, regardless of gender. But I will not be a submissive pussy. If I am being a gentleman, I am being a gentleman because I want to. It is a gift from me with no strings attached. Most men are just being gentlemen because they want to get into women's pants. They are submissive in the hopes of getting laid. Sadly, this is the worst mistake they are making. Women by nature love to be dominated, it's hardwired in their genes. Men are taught to be nice to women which is completely wrong. Grabbing a women, pulling her in so that she feels that you're in control actually turns her really on. You don't have to be a jerk about, just let her feel the man in you and she'll love it. Hence why I agree with you and with what the videos are showing.

Do you know what actually happens when a hardcore bitch meets a man that actually puts her in her place? She goes crazy about him and wants to fuck him and keep him under all costs. She's been deprived of a real man for so long since she's surrounded only by pussies. It's like getting some water after a whole day in the desert. So be careful when you come across one of those. You may not want to turn her on too much. :naughty:

@winkio: Women want equal benefits and pros, but they don't want equal cons. That's not equality or equivalency, that's just special rights.

Quote from: winkio on April 23, 2012, 10:28:46 pm
Where are all the male secretaries, cleaning staff, etc?  Some jobs appeal more to one sex than the other, does it really make that big of a difference?


This is exactly what I am trying to say. We are not equal, we are equivalent. One gender is suited better for one job while the other is better suited for other jobs. Or there are preferences, it doesn't matter. Mutual respect for somebody else's strengths and complementing their weakness with one's own strength is what should be happening.

@F0: I agree with you. And this is how it should be. Women are naturally better at some jobs, men are naturally better at other jobs. If there's a case of somebody wanting a job where the other gender is better, go ahead. Not all people are the same. But expecting special treatment because this is not their gender's preferred job is just bullshit. It's like "I want all rights for my gender, but I want the rights of your gender, too!"

@GrimTrigger: Very well said. I especially agree with male bashing. There's also another aspect of this. By selling sex (aka half-naked women jumping around or in sexy poses) it also creates a fake illusion that sex is something far more than it actually is and that women are dominant, sexually self-confident and whatnot. This is actually so far from the truth, it's not even funny. The worst thing is that men are being brainwashed into believing they are worthless and then they are bombarded with sex being this big thing they are not worthy enough to have. I mean WTF. This is so much bullshit I don't even know where to being explaining how wrong this is.

One thing that is very interesting in general, it's how the media are teaching men to avoid doing everything that actually women like and that turns them on. Can you believe that? Women love to be teased, yet we are told not to criticize women. Women love to be dominated, yet we are told to be submissive. Women love to be touched, yet we are told that we'll get a sexual harassment suit if we as much as bruise our hand accidentally on her back.

Funny enough women don't know who they are or what they want either. They are also brainwashed into believing that sex is bad and that they have to find a doormat for a husband. This is then the advice they give men about women. Be nice, buy flowers, pay for the dinner, etc. They are telling men this stuff because they have been told this stuff. It's not what they really want, it's only what they think they want.
It's not just men being robbed of their sexual identify, it's also happening to women. Women probably love sex more than men, yet they are taught how it's filthy and how they will be sluts if they have sex, etc.

@everybody: My whole point is: If somebody is a soft person FOR REAL, it's ok. But if a man was just brainwashed to be a soft person (aka pussy), that's not good. They are not really who they are, they have been brainwashed to be a fake. And they can't help themselves, because they don't know what's wrong. They can't be happy, because they are not really who they are.

EDIT: I just wanted to add that I hate the double moral of the gold-digger bitch from the video getting free dinners. Just because men are pussies and bootlickers today, doesn't mean you should exploit it. She could have said "no, I won't do that." She wants to be free and independent, yet she accepts free meals. Pure double moral. If I want to be independent, I won't accept free meals all the time. Sure, I don't mind being treated sometimes, but that's like once in 2 months maybe, not every single day!
Title: Re: The Effects of Emasculation
Post by: Subsonic_Noise on April 24, 2012, 05:14:55 am
Again, I'm sorry you made bad experiences with feminists :P But those extreme ones don't represent the idiology. Yes, men and women aren't the exact same.
But interlectually, and let's keep in mind that that's one of the, if not the biggest defining feature here, they are equal. As for feminism, it, in it's natural form, includes rights and duties, meaning for example that women should have army duty or at least something equivalent, as well. And let's not forget that early feminism played a big role in accomplishments such as women being allowed to vote etc. A big part of what they are working for is social issues though, and those are difficult to work against. It's been tried to change them through law, but in the end, it's people's minds that need to change.
I know plenty of feminists (being around intelligent, politically active people does that to you :P) or women interested in feminism, one of them being my girlfriend, and they are all down to earth intelligent people who ask for equal rights as well as equal duties. The problem you have is that you take the worst examples and pass them off as if they were representative. It's like judging the muslim religion by islamist terrorists. That's not how it works. Sure, there are bad examples of everything, but feminism itself is a good thing and should be supported.
Title: Re: The Effects of Emasculation
Post by: Blizzard on April 24, 2012, 07:17:14 am
Gender equality/equivalency should be promoted, not feminism. Feminism does not seem to me to promote that women are equal than men but that they are better than men. This is wrong. It implies that women should be given more rights than they currently have, regardless of whether there already have equal rights or not. Obviously feminism is not what it used to be in the beginning.
It seems that every movement, if it survives for long enough, becomes corrupted in one or another way. :/ I am for equal rights, but I am against feminism as I have seen how much damage feminism has done to both men and women.
Title: Re: The Effects of Emasculation
Post by: Subsonic_Noise on April 24, 2012, 07:48:07 am
Quote from: Blizzard on April 24, 2012, 07:17:14 am
Gender equality/equivalency should be promoted, not feminism. Feminism does not seem to me to promote that women are equal than men but that they are better than men. This is wrong. It implies that women should be given more rights than they currently have, regardless of whether there already have equal rights or not. Obviously feminism is not what it used to be in the beginning.
It seems that every movement, if it survives for long enough, becomes corrupted in one or another way. :/ I am for equal rights, but I am against feminism as I have seen how much damage feminism has done to both men and women.

And you choose to ignore how much good it has done? :P Also, again, the core of  feminism IS equality / equivalency. You can't blame the movement for the few extremists. The problem is that extremists draw more attention, especially with modern media nowadays. That doesn't mean that they -are- the movement itself though. Admit it, there is more on the media about extremist muslims, christians, etc. You're a christian, Blizz. You should know that a movement isn't represented by its extremists. Think of what extreme christians have done. The crusades, burning witches, attacking homosexuals, etc etc etc. Does this make christianity in general a bad thing?
Title: Re: The Effects of Emasculation
Post by: Blizzard on April 24, 2012, 09:01:33 am
You forgot the pedophile priests. :V
It stained Christianity enough for me I have abandoned it. Even though I did it because of completely different reasons, I am glad that I cannot be associated with a religion that basically did go ahead and slaughtered loads of people that probably had nothing to do with anything just because somebody occupied the grave of their savior. The longer I am alive, the more Christianity seems flawed to me. But that's another discussion.

I'm not gonna argue whether feminism is bad or not, because my opinion is that it has brought more bad than good longterm. It's hard for me to imagine a movement called "feminism" would promote actual equality while at the same it's called "feminism" and not "gender equality" or something along those lines and while it's trying to get more and more rights for women regardless of the fact that we already live in a world with laws for that stuff. Sure, as you said, laws don't make people change just like that, it takes time. But 50+ years? Come on. That's over 2 generations. The people who fought for and against the initial feminist movements are already dead. If you look at the world and how women are treated, I'd say that they are treated better than men. Equality my ass. Just like somebody said earlier, they want their version of equality.
Title: Re: The Effects of Emasculation
Post by: Calintz on April 24, 2012, 12:39:37 pm
i have to back Boris on this one. i agree with much, if not all of what he has said.

@Sub:
you constantly recite the core values of feminism, but that isn't what's in question here. i don't think anyone would disagree to say that the core values of feminism are wrong (not even i think they are), rather it's the practice that's flawed. take my government for instance! democracy is a wonderful thing in theory, but it's the practice of democracy that's become warped and distorted and allows for the real damage to be done. feminism is the same in this manner. in theory, it's a beautiful thing, but the practice is flawed.

i would argue that a big factor for what i just mentioned is the name of the movement itself. the name "feminism" suggests the empowerment of one gender over the other, even when the movement's core values don't. this is where a lot of distortion could arise. when a name doesn't truly reflect it's movements beliefs, it can only lead to the wrong message being portrayed to its target audience.

so putting those core values aside, i set my sights on the real debate and Blizzard's first post, which is how feminism has affected men and women and caused a widespread affect of emasculation, which IMO is a negative effect.

@Blizz:
oh god, i hated that bitch who was scoring free meals from guys!
if girls EXPECT to be treated like that, then why don't men deserve that little extra in their paycheck? now don't mistake me! that statement is not to say that men deserve more money, but it blows my mind how a gender specific movement will fight to have the same privileges of their counterpart, and then EXPECT to reap the benefits! news flash for a traditional girl like her! in traditional times...MEN MADE MORE MONEY TO PAY FOR YOUR MEAL! LOL. i guess IMO, the true balance lies in give and take, not "equality."
Title: Re: The Effects of Emasculation
Post by: Subsonic_Noise on April 24, 2012, 02:01:08 pm
Quote from: Calintz on April 24, 2012, 12:39:37 pm
i have to back Boris on this one. i agree with much, if not all of what he has said.

@Sub:
you constantly recite the core values of feminism, but that isn't what's in question here. i don't think anyone would disagree to say that the core values of feminism are wrong (not even i think they are), rather it's the practice that's flawed. take my government for instance! democracy is a wonderful thing in theory, but it's the practice of democracy that's become warped and distorted and allows for the real damage to be done. feminism is the same in this manner. in theory, it's a beautiful thing, but the practice is flawed.

The practise might not be perfect, but there is no perfect, easy way to get rid of outdated social norms, which, in essence, is the problem. If there was a perfect practise to rid the world of those, we'd probably be living in a world of sunshine, rainbows and puppies.

If your sarcasm detector didn't go off on this one you might concider exchanging it.

Quote from: Calintz on April 24, 2012, 12:39:37 pm
i would argue that a big factor for what i just mentioned is the name of the movement itself. the name "feminism" suggests the empowerment of one gender over the other, even when the movement's core values don't. this is where a lot of distortion could arise. when a name doesn't truly reflect it's movements beliefs, it can only lead to the wrong message being portrayed to its target audience.

You mean, just like the homosexual rights movement tries to put homosexuals over straight people because they aren't named "Equality of Sexual Orientation Movement"  :facepalm:
The name of movements like this often contains the group that has been wronged by society, which women were and still are when it comes to lots of things. That has nothing to do with them getting -more- or -special- rights, but them being brought up to a level with men when it comes to that. This still hasn't happened. Do you know any true feminists? Or are you judging everything from the extremists you heard about?
And let me tell you something, the whole thing that is adressed with boys being raised by single mums? (Which isn't a problem really, the video takes single cases and generalizes them with no statistical basis at all) Guess why it's single -moms- rising kids so often? Because it's a social norm that women are supposed to raise the kids, not men. Yes, this has improved a bit since many years ago, but it's still there. That's one of the things feminism actually wants to change. There's absolutely no problem with a man raising children, or a woman, or a man and a woman, or two men or two women. All of those combinations can raise a healthy child of either gender as it has been proven over and over. I could write more now but meh, I'll do that another time.


Quote from: Calintz on April 24, 2012, 12:39:37 pm
so putting those core values aside, i set my sights on the real debate and Blizzard's first post, which is how feminism has affected men and women and caused a widespread affect of emasculation, which IMO is a negative effect.

For you. So don't let yourself be "emasculated", and let others be however they want to be. Most of the more feminine guys I know are perfectly happy the way they are. You're applying your own values to other people.
Title: Re: The Effects of Emasculation
Post by: Taboo on May 06, 2012, 11:25:37 pm
I know I'm late to the conversation, but, Sub, if skyscrapers aren't monuments to our penises then what the hell are they? Are you trying to tell me that my life is a lie?
Title: Re: The Effects of Emasculation
Post by: Subsonic_Noise on May 07, 2012, 06:49:42 am
Quote from: Taboo on May 06, 2012, 11:25:37 pm
I know I'm late to the conversation, but, Sub, if skyscrapers aren't monuments to our penises then what the hell are they? Are you trying to tell me that my life is a lie?

Yes
Title: Re: The Effects of Emasculation
Post by: Spaceman McConaughey on May 07, 2012, 12:56:06 pm
You know what I think? I think this debate is fucking stupid.

Quote from: Taboo on May 06, 2012, 11:25:37 pm
I know I'm late to the conversation, but, Sub, if skyscrapers aren't monuments to our penises then what the hell are they? Are you trying to tell me that my life is a lie?


I also think skyscrapers being monuments to penises is a very old(and boring) joke.
Title: Re: The Effects of Emasculation
Post by: Blizzard on May 10, 2012, 08:30:08 am
You know what I think? I think this debate just became fucking stupid when skyscrapers and penises were introduced.
Title: Re: The Effects of Emasculation
Post by: Subsonic_Noise on May 10, 2012, 08:35:04 am
Nah, I introduced that as an example of what an extremist feminist is to seperate them from regular feminists - because that's what some of them actually say, I know from experience. :P It became stupid somewhere around the last 4 posts.
Title: Re: The Effects of Emasculation
Post by: Tazero on July 13, 2012, 12:49:50 pm
If a girl punched me, I wouldn't just sit their I'd either A)Hit back or B)Eat her children

If the golden rule is Treat other how you wanna be treated then do it. -.-
Title: Re: The Effects of Emasculation
Post by: RoseSkye on July 13, 2012, 03:21:11 pm
I don't have a father and there are no effects on me. I mean my vagina doesn't bleed more than once every 3 weeks.
Title: Re: The Effects of Emasculation
Post by: ForeverZer0 on July 13, 2012, 05:18:36 pm
Ah, nothing like reviving a dead topic with spam posts...
Title: Re: The Effects of Emasculation
Post by: EntropyUSB on October 18, 2013, 07:24:51 pm
Quote from: Blizzard on April 23, 2012, 03:19:43 pm
aka: How today's men are pussies.

http://manhood101.com/media.html


I believe there is a fine line between being a pussy and being sensitive.

Being a pussy pretty much says "you are weak willed and kind hearted to the point that you let anyone step all over you"
Being sensitive pretty much says the exact same thing, but minus the being stepped all over situation.

Heck, even I am one of those "sensitive" guys and I don't really like to force others into something they don't agree with; but at the same time, if someone tries to overpower me, they better be expecting a fight and some broken bones in their immediate future.
Title: Re: The Effects of Emasculation
Post by: Blizzard on October 19, 2013, 03:34:23 am
Usually being sensitive implies being a pussy, because most people aren't sensitive. They are just pussies, but they are labeled (and label themselves) to be sensitive, because they don't understand the difference.
Title: Re: The Effects of Emasculation
Post by: EntropyUSB on October 19, 2013, 08:42:23 am
Quote from: Blizzard on October 19, 2013, 03:34:23 am
Usually being sensitive implies being a pussy, because most people aren't sensitive. They are just pussies, but they are labeled (and label themselves) to be sensitive, because they don't understand the difference.


Or maybe, those who have no feelings and are cold-hearted have no sensitivity that they assume being nice at all is being a pussy as well.
Title: Re: The Effects of Emasculation
Post by: Blizzard on October 19, 2013, 09:46:08 am
That's a strawman argument and has no relevance.
Title: Re: The Effects of Emasculation
Post by: Ranquil on October 19, 2013, 10:42:10 am
Let's take another perspective on the matter.

Why should men be masculine and women be feminine? Who decides what is masculine and what is feminine? Why should one sex act differently than the other?
I think no-one should be a pushover, men and women alike. Neither should anyone have a victim mentality and bash people who "oppress" them. I think people should be whatever they want to be, regardless of their genitals. I like baking, I use mostly female characters in fighting games, I have hair that reaches to my shoulders, I have hardly any muscle at all, I have no problem making gay or feminizing jokes about myself or do my hair to a feminine hairdo, I don't watches sports and I don't especially like beer. And I identify myself as a heterosexual man.
My point is that men don't have to be as manly as possible. My point is definitely not that men have to be feminine and women masculine. My point is that everyone should be equal, regardless of sex or mental characteristics that are generally considered manly or womanly. And being a pushover shouldn't be resented only on men.
Title: Re: The Effects of Emasculation
Post by: PhoenixFire on October 19, 2013, 10:50:20 am
Quote from: Ranquil on October 19, 2013, 10:42:10 am
My point is that everyone should be equal, regardless of sex or mental characteristics that are generally considered manly or womanly. And being a pushover shouldn't be resented only on men.


That. I agree with that part 100%

As to your description, I'm about the same; I have a little bit of muscle, being a prior military member, and my hair never reaches to my shoulders, but I generally choose female characters as well, don't really care for sports, like cooking and baking, can't stand beer at all, unless already buzzed from something vodka-based, and, I can tolerate being the butt-end of a joke within reason of course. Yet I have a daughter, and, am engaged to a beautiful, sexy woman; so the point stands - Why should one sex act differently than the other?
Title: Re: The Effects of Emasculation
Post by: Blizzard on October 19, 2013, 12:12:55 pm
Keep in mind one thing: Men are men and women are women. Of course there are individual differences and some may be more or less masculine or feminine, but that isn't the point. Just like you can't stop a cat from being a cat, you can't stop a man from being a man or a woman from being a woman. Men and women are not equal, they are equivalent. A penis does not equal a vagina. But a penis has the same "value" as a vagina. Rather than trying to enforce some sort of equality on everybody, we should make sure that we enforce equivalency and treat them equivalent. The difference between these two terms is huge.
The point isn't the make one gender seem less than the other, but to embrace our differences and strength to complement each other rather than fighting about trivial things about who's better at what.

Before someone starts being defensive with "But I am just sensitive!", they should first reconsider who they truly are and whether they are just hiding behind a facade of weakness to get pity and other secondary emotional payoff rather than cutting the bullshit and embracing their true self (lol, I am saying this as if one could do that just like that and doesn't require years of self-development). I'm not saying that everybody does it, but a majority of the people sadly does it. And who's to say that you can't be empathic and manly? These are not mutually exclusive. I think the "pussy" vs. "sensitive" argument from before is a very good explanation of this from another perspective.

EDIT: Manliness is not about being physically strong or showing off or stuff like that. Manliness is about the strength of mind, willpower and confidence.

How did the saying go? A rich man doesn't have a need to tell everybody that he's rich. The same goes for a masculine man. A masculine man doesn't need to prove himself to anyone. But on the flipside, a true man also understands his weaknesses and shortcomings. He does not try to hide them, but he actively works on fixing/improving them if he can.
Title: Re: The Effects of Emasculation
Post by: Ranquil on October 19, 2013, 12:42:31 pm
Quote from: Blizzard on October 19, 2013, 12:12:55 pm
Keep in mind one thing: Men are men and women are women. Of course there are individual differences and some may be more or less masculine or feminine, but that isn't the point. Just like you can't stop a cat from being a cat, you can't stop a man from being a man or a woman from being a woman. Men and women are not equal, they are equivalent. A penis does not equal a vagina. But a penis has the same "value" as a vagina. Rather than trying to enforce some sort of equality on everybody, we should make sure that we enforce equivalency and treat them equivalent. The difference between these two terms is huge.
The point isn't the make one gender seem less than the other, but to embrace our differences and strength to complement each other rather than fighting about trivial things about who's better at what.

Before someone starts being defensive with "But I am just sensitive!", they should first reconsider who they truly are and whether they are just hiding behind a facade of weakness to get pity and other secondary emotional payoff rather than cutting the bullshit and embracing their true self (lol, I am saying this as if one could do that just like that and doesn't require years of self-development). I'm not saying that everybody does it, but a majority of the people sadly does it. And who's to say that you can't be empathic and manly? These are not mutually exclusive. I think the "pussy" vs. "sensitive" argument from before is a very good explanation of this from another perspective.

EDIT: Manliness is not about being physically strong or showing off or stuff like that. Manliness is about the strength of mind, willpower and confidence.

How did the saying go? A rich man doesn't have a need to tell everybody that he's rich. The same goes for a masculine man. A masculine man doesn't need to prove himself to anyone. But on the flipside, a true man also understands his weaknesses and shortcomings. He does not try to hide them, but he actively works on fixing/improving them if he can.

Here are three things I want to point out to you:
1. Physical sex ≠ gender identity
2. "Just like you can't stop a cat from being a cat, you can't stop a man from being a man or a woman from being a woman." seems to be a bit off. Ever heard of transgendre people or those who've born with ambiguous sex organs? Besides, what's you point about "stopping" someone being a man or a woman? Stopping someone from being what society considers to be masculine or feminine, for example your strength of mind, willpower and confidence?
3. Strength of mind, willpower and confidence are qualities that describe a generally awesome person, not just a manly man. A woman with those qualities is equally as awesome. Or "equivalent", whatever floats your boat.
Title: Re: The Effects of Emasculation
Post by: Blizzard on October 19, 2013, 03:41:28 pm
1. Where did you get that assumption? I didn't even mention the word sex.

2. Uhm, the very definition of masculine includes confidence. The definition of feminine includes empathy. I think you are completely missing my point here. What I am trying to say is that you can't change someone's identity. If somebody naturally responds to something, yes, they can deny it their entire life, but that's not gonna make them happy, that's not who they are. If somebody is homosexual, acting like a heterosexual their entire life obviously has heavy consequences for their general well-being. But the opposite is true as well. Heterosexuality is more common than homosexuality. It's similar for men and women. Today's society encourages men to be wimps which is against their nature. Obviously I am generalizing as there are naturally "wimpy" men (which I a bad way of saying it, I know, but bear with me for the sake of easier comparison) and "strong" women just like there are homosexual people and they are a minority. But all of that still doesn't change the fact that society discourages men to be strong and women to be weak. This forces people to act against their genetic nature.

3. Yes, of course. But that doesn't change the fact that these are masculine traits just as e.g. empathy, sensuality and intuition are feminine traits. These also make an awesome person that is no less awesome than a person with those masculine traits.