Chaos Project

RPG Maker => General Discussion => Topic started by: mroedesigns on July 19, 2011, 01:53:38 pm

Title: High vs Low Numbers / Balancing out your game
Post by: mroedesigns on July 19, 2011, 01:53:38 pm
So I know there are people that tend to leave most of the default items/enemies/whatever else when working on an RPG Maker project, but my question is for those change them. Do you prefer higher numbers in your stats or lower? And how would you go about ensuring your game is well-balanced?

Personally I prefer lower numbers just because I find things easier to manage and change that way. Plus from low numbers I can scale up as much as I desire, which again I find easier.
Title: Re: High vs Low Numbers / Balancing out your game
Post by: Blizzard on July 19, 2011, 01:57:03 pm
I like high numbers. I know it's just numbers, but you can't deny that 954412 damage looks more awesome than 954.

I did it in CP. At the end of the game each character should have pretty much no problem dealing 20k-30k damage with a strong skill. 21437 looks better than 2143 does. <3
Title: Re: High vs Low Numbers / Balancing out your game
Post by: mroedesigns on July 19, 2011, 02:13:57 pm
That's true. I guess since I'm doing an online game I'm trying to go for a combination of players feeling like they can do a lot of damage when they're stronger, and still being fairly simple. Im also keeping it low for now at least for testing and to make it easier on me.
Title: Re: High vs Low Numbers / Balancing out your game
Post by: Cid on July 20, 2011, 05:55:21 am
I'm using low numbers for the simple reason that my game is rather mild in nature, so I think outrageous damage would look a little out of place. Although I'm not really a fan of high numbers anyway.
Title: Re: High vs Low Numbers / Balancing out your game
Post by: AliveDrive on September 13, 2011, 02:09:44 am
I think its good to start out with low numbers and then work your way up as needed.

For me, I like to see around 100 damage by Lv. 10. By Lv. 20 maybe see 1000 damage.

Depending on how high a level your max level is it seems appropriate to see outrageous numbers as your characters become more and more powerful.

In most games, you don't reach the max level before the final boss fight.

This ensures that if you are having difficulty with the fight you can always level more.
Title: Re: High vs Low Numbers / Balancing out your game
Post by: winkio on September 13, 2011, 02:14:43 am
One of these days I'm going to make an rpg where damage is so large it must be expressed in scientific notation.  Deal a cool 3.5 * 10^37 damage with a basic attack.
Title: Re: High vs Low Numbers / Balancing out your game
Post by: Boba Fett Link on September 20, 2011, 07:38:28 pm
I don't know. I'd have to agree with mroedesign: smaller numbers are more manageable. When I think of real RPG games, all of them have numbers on the lower end of the spectrum.
Title: Re: High vs Low Numbers / Balancing out your game
Post by: Blizzard on September 21, 2011, 02:15:45 am
It really depends on the game. Most games are in the 1000's and 10000's, most childish RPGs are in the 100's, maybe 1000's. Rarely you can see a game below 100's (which are often quite childish) or above 100000 (games that often look cooler and have a more lot serious undertone).
Title: Re: High vs Low Numbers / Balancing out your game
Post by: AliveDrive on September 21, 2011, 02:19:07 am
Paper Mario: Thousand Year Door had extremely low numbers.

It is a childish game but I really enjoyed the simplicity of the system.
Title: Re: High vs Low Numbers / Balancing out your game
Post by: Blizzard on September 21, 2011, 02:20:56 am
Every Mario RPG had extremely low numbers. I enjoyed a couple of Mario RPGs myself. I was just saying where low numbers are used and where high numbers are used.
Title: Re: High vs Low Numbers / Balancing out your game
Post by: Lobstrosity on September 21, 2011, 03:26:28 am
I love starting games off doing damage in only 2-digit numbers and ending in the hundred thousands. The reason I love it is because it just shows the development of your characters. And 2 digit numbers - 6 or 7 digit numbers just shows a massive increase!
Title: Re: High vs Low Numbers / Balancing out your game
Post by: Blizzard on September 21, 2011, 04:18:51 am
I like starting off in the 3 digits more. They don't grow THAT much. xD
Title: Re: High vs Low Numbers / Balancing out your game
Post by: Lore on September 23, 2011, 11:18:06 am
Well, some of the Dragon Quest games start off in the single digits and end up somewhere in the four digits and you can argue that it is a pretty hardcore RPG. :P
Title: Re: High vs Low Numbers / Balancing out your game
Post by: Blizzard on September 23, 2011, 11:49:47 am
It definitely is. xD Secret of Mana starts off in 1-2 digits and you can do nice 4 digit damage by the end of the game as well.
Title: Re: High vs Low Numbers / Balancing out your game
Post by: legacyblade on September 23, 2011, 05:09:52 pm
Just because I'm bad with numbers, I like to use single or double digit numbers. I owe this a bit to D&D as well, which uses smaller numbers. Once a number gets 4 digits, it's hard for me to read it. Now if it has 5-7 digits, I just level grind so I can mash the A button and not worry about thinking through the numbers and strategy (the numbers are just too big for me to think through, ya know?

I also think 999 should be insta-kill. Because...I dunno, it's 999.
Title: Re: High vs Low Numbers / Balancing out your game
Post by: V o d on September 24, 2011, 02:14:00 am
I like high numbers only if I'm the one dealing it.
Playing Ragnarok Online for a long time made me love/hate high numbers. If you get a 5 digit number you're usually almost dead or dead. *spams pots* On the other hand if you dealt that its good, if it was a player. If it was a high-tier monster you'll need a 7+ digits to kill it.
But that game became even more extremely unbalanced, and the new stuff they added made me give up.
Pretty much starting out from 1 digit numbers, then after maxing your lvl and equipment you can dish a 7+ digit.

I've been playing Grand Knights History for the past 2 weeks. The digits, I've seen, only go up to 3 and even then damage is usually around 100-400+ for my party's average lvl. If my party was higher lvl I'd probably be one-hitted by everyone I fought. My characters' stats are bad  for their lvl, so they can't equip better equipment.

I think instant kill should be:
"∞"
There's no way you can survive that damage.

Slime 1 uses Slimey Death.
Arshes receives ∞ damage.
Arshes has fallen.
You've been defeated.
Game over.

But if that single word is too small for you, make it ∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞..etc etc
Just to show the player how large infinity is.
Title: Re: High vs Low Numbers / Balancing out your game
Post by: Lore on September 27, 2011, 04:54:48 pm
Quote from: winkio on September 13, 2011, 02:14:43 am
One of these days I'm going to make an rpg where damage is so large it must be expressed in scientific notation.  Deal a cool 3.5 * 10^37 damage with a basic attack.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soH8jG_gfGQ&feature=relmfu

Ahem. <3
Title: Re: High vs Low Numbers / Balancing out your game
Post by: winkio on September 27, 2011, 05:06:03 pm
bah, 10 million, weak sauce.
Title: Re: High vs Low Numbers / Balancing out your game
Post by: Lore on September 27, 2011, 05:35:25 pm
Quote from: winkio on September 27, 2011, 05:06:03 pm
bah, 10 million, weak sauce.


They dealt 978 million+ with one skill LOL. You can chain skills.
Title: Re: High vs Low Numbers / Balancing out your game
Post by: Blizzard on September 27, 2011, 05:57:33 pm
This game could be more badass if they'd lose the childish anime graphics and used badass anime graphics instead.

EDIT: Did he just say that they lead you through "casual erections"?! O_o;
Title: Re: High vs Low Numbers / Balancing out your game
Post by: Lore on September 27, 2011, 07:22:42 pm
Yeah, well Disgaea is already a badass series. It may have childish graphics, but it has one of the deepest stories and most intricate systems to have ever been seen in an RPG series :P

And he says "Casual interactions" xD
Title: Re: High vs Low Numbers / Balancing out your game
Post by: MindOnFire on October 03, 2011, 08:33:34 pm
Quote from: Lore on September 27, 2011, 04:54:48 pm
Quote from: winkio on September 13, 2011, 02:14:43 am
One of these days I'm going to make an rpg where damage is so large it must be expressed in scientific notation.  Deal a cool 3.5 * 10^37 damage with a basic attack.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soH8jG_gfGQ&feature=relmfu

Ahem. <3


^ Jesus Christ that is amusingly unnecessary. As soon as he got to the line "Take a dump in the face of common sense." I couldn't want anymore. Lol @ the 10,000,000 damage+ shit. I want attacks like that in Chrono Trigger.

I'm one of those kinds who basically tries to make it so that by the time you hit the end level you have about 9,999 HP. I don't actually know how to go beyond that but I don't really see it as necessary either. The only thing I really dislike in RPGs as far as damage numbers go (I don't care if they're high or low to be honest) Is when you have monsters that look like they could breathe on you and it'd corrode your skin, dealing say, 4,500 damage, then you with your stupid little stick or sharpened piece of metal hitting it for like 8536 or whatever and taking infinitely less time to kill it than it would to kill you. Having a horribly disproportioned HP/Attack/Magic system in most games are where those games begin making no sense.
Title: Re: High vs Low Numbers / Balancing out your game
Post by: G_G on October 03, 2011, 10:52:38 pm
Low numbers, because I can add them in my head.
Title: Re: High vs Low Numbers / Balancing out your game
Post by: Solusandra on October 08, 2011, 06:49:57 am
Agreed, I find low numbers are much easier to manage. Plus, when you start seeing the bigger numbers, it means it just got real. Final Fantasy XIII I felt did this rather well, the later enemies are powerful enough to do lots of damage to you and the final super-skills give you some massive massive attacks.

Granted I use Chrono Trigger as my model, so low damage on both sides, 999 max HP (all but one of my cast are ordinary-ish mortals), 9999 damage cap, typically two digit damage until you get the later skills.

That said, I love how OTT the Disgaea series is. There is no damage cap, the post-game superbosses can have trillions of HP so you need everything you can get to stomp them.

An example of poor balancing though (a case where the numbers should have been allowed to go higher) - Yiazmat in Final Fantasy XII. 5 billion HP, but you are limited to a maximum damage cap of 6999 at a time for most of the fight. XIII never goes as high in HP, but some bosses have millions of HP. Even so the much higher cap means you blow through the HP faster, making it less of a slog.

That's what it is all about to me. Rather than big numbers / small numbers, it's how well those numbers fit and scale. I don't want to be limited to four-figure damage if my opponent has a dozen zeroes on the end of his HP score!


So to answer the original question, prefer low numbers, high numbers have their place too, the important thing is BALANCE.