Chaos Project

General => Chat => Intelligent Debate => Topic started by: Taboo on February 01, 2014, 02:06:41 pm

Title: Spirituality
Post by: Taboo on February 01, 2014, 02:06:41 pm
As I create this topic, I'm going through a personal spiritual shift. When I was about 7 or so, my dad became "saved" and started taking my family to church every Sunday. I never really questioned Christianity until I went to a friend's church one day. Their pastor gave a sermon on the same topic my pastor had spoken about already. I was shocked to hear such a different take on the same part of the Bible. It was then that I realized that I couldn't just listen to what someone told me about religion, and I had to mold my own spiritual values. Because of this, I no longer identified myself with the religion aspect of Christianity, that is, I no longer assigned myself to any particular denomination or the church in general. This went on for a few years, but about a year and a half ago, I fell out of it completely. I just couldn't believe that we presumed to understand what a God or Godlike being would desire, or that we could understand what it even is! And with as many religions as we have on this great planet of ours, I wasn't sure that I could say that the one I had been loosely following was even the correct one. From this point on, I classified myself as a Agnostic Theist. I believe that there may or may not be a God(dess) or Godlike figure, but I also believe that we have no way of knowing one way or the other or even comprehending this being. What about you all? Where do your spiritual beliefs lie?
Title: Re: Spirituality
Post by: Moshan on February 01, 2014, 02:57:15 pm
I find this topic very interesting because I also live in a Christian society and I would like to share my opinion about religion.
I honestly don't belive in God, but not because I'm sure that He dosen't exist but because there are too many questions unanswered by the church representants. I didnt travel to much through world but I'm sure that in my country the religion is nothing more than a profitable bussiness so where's the God desire? I find it very funny that if human wouldn't have existed then neither God wouldn't. We are the only rational beings and without us there wouldn't be the problem of divinity. So how God can be so big and powerfull when his existence depends on humans?
In my opinion there's a "God" in every person and in that "God" we should belive. If you trust in your own powers then you can easily understand  how it feels to be something close to a god.
Title: Re: Spirituality
Post by: Blizzard on February 01, 2014, 03:42:28 pm
I have my own take on this. As I already mentioned in another topic.

Quote from: Blizzard on January 21, 2014, 05:39:21 am
I have had a somewhat similar experience. My family aren't hardcore Christians, but they do believe in Jesus. A few years ago I realized that I don't agree with a few core beliefs of Christianity so I think that I have no right to call myself a Christian. I still believe that there is a superior conscious being that started everything, but I don't think that they did it for a "higher purpose" and it doesn't even matter to me. Lol, like a true Agnostic; whether there is a god or not does not really matter to me anyway, but I do believe in one.

Though, I did tell my family that I've sworn off Christianity. My mother took it a bit hard at first and my parents aren't really comfortable with it, but it's not an issue as they respect my decision.

my reasons: ShowHide

1. Getting baptized basically makes you a Christian for life. Your parents do your promise instead of you yourself so basically you are not given a choice to not be Christian if your parents say so. It's a self-serving ritual and becomes meaningless if you don't believe in it. I disagree with this as everybody should be able to make their choice and be able to change it at any time. Christianity does not allow you to leave technically. But only as long as you believe in it. If you don't believe in Jesus, it makes the ritual meaningless since its whole purpose is based on believing that it has one.

2. No sex before marriage; I completely disagree. I understand that there should be a way to force people to look after their children who aren't careful with sex. But marriage comes down to one thing again: Make a promise and being forced to keep it. In Christianity it's literally "until death parts us" so sex is basically prohibited before marriage to make sure you do your parental duties in at least some way. It's not a bad thing, but with today's laws about child support and protection during sex, it becomes obsolete.

3. The Jewish god is vengeful and killed millions of people in the Old Testament. The Christian god will forgive you even if you destroyed the entire universe as long as you're just honestly sorry about it. I can't believe in a god that will erase all consequences of your actions, it doesn't seem right. Don't get me wrong, forgiveness is a good thing, but there has to be a limit. If somebody does the same mistake over and over, there is no point in forgiving them as they aren't making an actual effort to not make that mistake anymore. Which means that they obviously aren't sorry.

4. Honestly, I forgot what #4 was. xD

These may seem like "minor" stuff, but they are important to Christians.

I agree that there are lots of things that are unanswered by the Church, but I don't think that this is as much an issue as change. If there is *one* true religion and Jesus established, wouldn't it make sense that changing or adding anything is blasphemy? e.g. It was decided afterwards by the Church that Mary is the Mother of God, Jesus didn't say that. Wouldn't that be actually huge blasphemy? Some Christians complain how there are Christians that believe in part of the Bible and not in another which makes them hypocrites that think they are above their religion while in reality the entire religion already did that numerous times.

But I digress, we are not here to talk about religion, but about spirituality.

I've had an intense experience once and after night I was walking home in a slight rain while cursing god and everything. Basically I was like "Fuck this shit! Destroy me or else I will dedicate my life to eradicate the human race!" While this would have probably made me the first super villain ever, it didn't come to that. Long story short, something happened a few minutes later that I could only perceive as an answer from god which sounded like "Are you sure this is what you want?" Whether this was or was not an actual response, I don't really care. Regardless of everything, I like to believe that there is somebody watching over us. He may not be a total good god like the Christians believe or a vengeful one like in Judaism, but he's sentient. I find it hard to believe that the universe turned out the way it did just by chance. The rules of everything are too complex to be created by mere chance.

But even if there is no god, this doesn't change anything. I think that this is a good way to live. It's good to believe, but one shouldn't put beliefs above common sense. I don't think a sentient god would agree with being blindly faithful either.

As I said, I swore off Christianity for a number of reasons. Looking back, I don't regret it, especially with the recent discoveries that the Bible might have been written by Romans for population control over the Jews. But the core of everything is still the fact that the Bible contains many questionable rules and stories. It may be "the word of god", but it was written by man. And if man has free will, then man can put in anything he wants while god can only watch, because he wouldn't interfere with free will would he now? Funny, I used to use that argument FOR Christianity while I was still a Christian and that the Bible should not be interpreted literally. But according to hardcore Christians, it's blasphemy to think with your own head. So I wasn't left with any other choice than to swear it off.
Title: Re: Spirituality
Post by: WhiteRose on February 01, 2014, 06:34:07 pm
Quote from: Blizzard on February 01, 2014, 03:42:28 pmIt's good to believe, but one shouldn't put beliefs above common sense.

I absolutely agree with this. Well put, Blizz. Belief and hope should help us to enjoy life, and should not make things miserable for us or for anyone else. There's no excuse for using religion as a tool to hurt others, no matter the beliefs of the instigator.
Title: Re: Spirituality
Post by: Taboo on February 01, 2014, 07:49:01 pm
Quote from: Blizzard on February 01, 2014, 03:42:28 pm
I don't think a sentient god would agree with being blindly faithful either.

I don't think you can comprehend how much I agree with this statement. I've stated this before in numerous debates with friends.
Title: Re: Spirituality
Post by: Blizzard on February 02, 2014, 06:11:50 am
Hm, I reread my post and I'm only talking about the bad stuff, I forgot the good stuff.

Jesus is a good, if not even a great teacher. He has said many wise things and I think there is no harm in learning more about him. The problem comes when people either add their own stuff to pass it off as stuff from the Bible or the complete opposite, when they take the Bible as an absolute and literal document. The Bible should get people to think. I understand that most people couldn't read back in the day and priests ensured that the majority of the Bible was not misinterpreted. But the mere fact that people were told what's in there second hand already means that it was warped at least once. Technically even every translation of the Bible already warps what is written there. But that's not a bad thing if you look at the Bible as literature instead of a historical document. Everybody will interpret it on their own and I think that this is an important part about spirituality, to interpret it for yourself. In reality no two persons have the same beliefs. And that's ok, that's how it is supposed to be.

I never had the feeling that Jesus wanted anybody to follow him blindly. People were always offered a choice. He would always say stuff like "Follow me and I you shall find salvation". He made promises, he dedicated himself to help and he did it unconditionally. We can all learn from that. He didn't say "Unless you go to Church every Sunday, I'll make you burn in hell!" And while something like this is obviously impossible on a global scale, one can still do this on a local scale. Be true to your friends and help them when they need you. You can't fix or help the entire world, but you can still make an impact on the people close to you. If they want your help that is, because there are people who just don't want to be helped. Whether Jesus really existed or not doesn't make much of a difference. His teachings are still good.

But there is also a flip side. Jesus takes these things way too far. e.g. The concept of "turn the other cheek", I don't buy it. If you weaken yourself like this, you will not be able to help others. If you waste your energy on people that are not worth it, you are missing out on helping those who would accept your help. Ultimately you can't fix the world and other people. But you can help those who want to fix themselves. I know that "turn the other cheek" is more a metaphor for not being vengeful (which I agree with), but there has to be a boundary or people will just keep walking all over you which accomplishes nothing, helps nobody and just makes your own life miserable. People need to have well defined boundaries of behavior they will not tolerate. There is no excuse not to stop somebody if they went over your boundaries. But it's just important that you don't accept that kind of behavior from yourself as well. Or, in other words, don't accept second-class behavior from other people, nor from yourself.

In the end, regardless of how everything turned out for me, I don't regret it that I was born into a Christian family. I'm glad that I was exposed to Christian teachings and got my chance to say "that's not for me" than never know about it in the first place. And that doesn't even mean that I completely reject everything, no. I don't even like wording it this way. I prefer to say that I agree with a lot of things that Jesus said, but everything has to have a limit and be taken with a grain of salt. None of his words are supposed to be taken blindly, but they should encourage people to make their own image.
Title: Re: Spirituality
Post by: Kiwa on February 02, 2014, 08:27:18 am
I havent read everything in this thread yet...sorry if i stomp on what other ppl may have already said.

I have been saying mostly religion, religion, religion and religion...not pointing fingers at Christianity. but i do have a problem with Christianity.

"Turn the other cheek" is a good idea and all. non violent ways are over beneficial to most.
then there are things such as "spare the rod spoil the child"
which takes the most helpless and most impressionable demographic and smacks them around in situations where they may not even understand why.
I think violence if not used in defence is an act of ignorance. "i donno how to deal with this so..." **Smack!**
and before someone says that they aren't beaten.
With the witness family i was learning with i saw him get up to chase...yes chase his 3 year old child, knock over a dinner try table, grab his son by the wrist and lift him.. haul off and blast the kid in the ass full force 3-4 times while the child screamed.
I stood there in shock wide eyed and open mouthed.
after seeing me standing there like that he said to me that i'll understand when i have kids..spare the rod..blah blah.

Then they try to play victim being the majority when just a small small population in america are openly criticizing it. i think i read a statistic that said only 5% of people claim to be Atheist. and still some odd 75-80% Claim to be Christian.
Spoiler: ShowHide


I have many christian friends who play this "i pity you" attitude, but in truth they have done far worse things that i've even considered. including stealing, drugs, vandalism, and adultery off the top of my head.

then they can just say "sorry" and its all ok?!

this is how i feel they act.

Spoiler: ShowHide


Now i know this is not all Christians, just as not all Muslims would blow up the twin towers or honor kill their raped daughter (contrary to popular media reports).
They also play a holier than thou attitude with other religions....esp Islam.
and as blizz and i said earlier.. im sure part of it is exposure. what i know of Islam is only from my Muslim friends.

And i don't hate religious ppl. I just get driven nuts by the hypercritical behavior and dogma.
Title: Re: Spirituality
Post by: Blizzard on February 02, 2014, 08:34:29 am
Quote from: Kiwa on February 02, 2014, 08:27:18 am
then they can just say "sorry" and its all ok?!

I just wanted to comment on this part. Yes, I hate that as well. Sure, redemption should be possible and everybody deserves a second chance, but this basically means that your entire life will have no consequence to you if you're really, really sorry just the moment before you die. The concept is simply flawed, there's not much else I can say.
Title: Re: Spirituality
Post by: Kiwa on February 02, 2014, 10:43:12 am
Quote from: Blizzard on February 01, 2014, 03:42:28 pm
But according to hardcore Christians, it's blasphemy to think with your own head.

Yeah, that was a contingency I had when studying. I remember finding the bible saying (tho i cant remember where) You should only read and understand the words of the bible for your self and god would give you whats needed. but then later saying that you should study in small groups because it cant be interpreted by ones self.

I hate to harp on this too much, but really it was a problem and anyone i asked for help on it in the past held me with contempt while running me in circles with scriptures that never answered my question. inevitably they would say i need faith and that was it.. that was my problem. i couldn't understand cuz i had no faith.

Eventually it lead to an argument with them attacking me personally..calling me lazy, a sinner and then an apostate and telling me I was just trying to prove them wrong.
I replied that i was jsut trying to prove them right..and that i wanted to believe, but i need to understand these things.
then looping back to "you need faith" and me finally getting thrown out of the religion.

A friend of mine who introduced me to the religion said no one in the church was allowed to make contact with me or my girlfriend of the time.

Questions are healthy, questions are good, questions lead to answers. saying "faith" or "God" to me only ended up meaning "I don't know"
This, believe it or not, was STILL not the end of my attempt to join Christianity...i tried REALLY REALLY hard to learn and accept it. i easily spent more than half my life trying to accept something that kept not accepting me.

I have an interest in religion. I really do. I'm still open to ideas and opinions.

maybe these things i have posted will allow you to see a fraction of why i have said what i said. This story is only one of MANY ridiculous stories i have about Christianity and my spirituality.

Any ways, That was part of my turning moved on to a close friend and a "demon possession" story that lasted about 4 years. after that situation is when i finally gave up.

I have so much more to say about it, but maybe another time... Sorry to explode all over the forum. lol
Title: Re: Spirituality
Post by: Blizzard on February 02, 2014, 01:35:14 pm
Lol, it's cool. This is what the topic is for.
Title: Re: Spirituality
Post by: Neoend on February 02, 2014, 04:21:05 pm
I've gone through the majority of the things written but they may not have all soaked in so apologies for any redundancy.
Overall, I agree with a lot of the standpoints presented here, and I have a few thoughts on the matter as well.
I grew up on a predominantly Christian island, and the actions the populace as a whole took on things that didn't agree were pretty drastic. But simultaneously there were actions, and aspects of the culture that blatantly disagreed with the doctrine they followed so vehemently, mostly because well, it appealed to lower pleasures. To sum it up, the amount of interpretation and subjectivity in the matter was noted through childhood.
That being said, I also had the privilege to become aware of many other world religions and methodologies, and really, it's just a giant well of enriching information.

I agree with you Blizzard, the bible is a great book. Especially if you get into the mentality of those time, when things were arguably much more... artistic. In the sense that in order to understand you needed to have a flexible mind that could read between the minds and note the symbology and greater meanings of the words. Taking the bible too literally at the surface level invites dogma and unnecessary bigotry and attachment to a possibly misconceived notion.

And on the point of Jesus, the guy was awesome for sure. And in regards to turn the other cheek. I'm sure that when it came to a man of his profound spirit, he was aware there were limits, to how far it could go in a situation and for a particular person. I'd like to imagine that Jesus was aware of some glorious bigger picture when he imparted his words on to the masses for people to either accept or reject.

All that being said, in terms of my personal thoughts, I prefer spirituality over religion. Religion was organized and interpreted by man. If some guys in a room thousands of years ago made a slight change to events as they happened, and this one change was equivalent to a 1 degree shift in an angle, then imagine if you will, a straight line, and then the 1 degree shifted line going to infinity. Eventually those two lines are going to be so far apart. In this sense a possible change in events is an exponential function when the human element comes into play.
Spirituality however which I will refer to as faith in your perception of things as they are, can be very beneficial to people who otherwise have no hope in life for whatever reason. Faith has helped keep people alive for longer than the scientific community thought possible for instance.

And then there's alot of really interesting interplay between various religions and methodologies. Some of these include virgin births, trinities and the end of days, and paradise. And then to lesser extents the concepts of being a good individual and looking out for your fellow man. It's a giant web of an interconnected concepts between the spiritual beliefs and the world at large that enrich the history of this planet and is too much of a shame to not be aware of. With the strides in technology nowadays, the interconnections are becoming more apparent I would contend. We now live in a world, where an aura could have really been the bio-electric field and where quantum entanglement causes "spooky action at a distance.", and where works of arts might match the proportionality of points in a nebula . I'm rambling a bit now but what I mean to convey is that world is just too grand to deny the possibility of there being a greater meaning in all of it. Especially when people and civilization as whole is barely making baby steps. Many of Spiritual Masters in the past such as Pythagoras, would not have called phenomena that were interpreted as miracles, miracles. Chances are they may have just referred  to them as science that we yet not understand. So that's what I contend our faith bridges the disconnect between what we know now and what we strive to understand down the line. Religions have just simply at most built additions that are just making this bridge slightly disfigured, but as the bridge still stands, there is a shred of truth.

So yes, some of my thoughts on the matter. I think I got carried away, but I hope it doesn't confuse too many of you. =)
Title: Re: Spirituality
Post by: Blizzard on February 02, 2014, 04:51:17 pm
I agree, it's fascinating how many religions share a lot of events, locations and even names. One just can't help but think that they all just "stole" from each other and every religion is basically man-made and nothing more. I guess we humans have a need to know and/or believe that our lives matter in a grander scale of things, that things are not just random, that there is a purpose.
Title: Re: Spirituality
Post by: Neoend on February 02, 2014, 05:48:20 pm
I'd like to think that the need to know is hardwired into people. I mean, without that drive, genius like Einstein and Tesla and everyone before and after may just have never happened. We're given curiosity to do with what we will I would say.

Personally, I'd like to think that things aren't random in the true sense of the word. To me this is proved just by the simple fact that mathematics, even at the state it is now, works. Yeah, errors still happen but I think that's because there are variables that haven't been accounted for. I would go as for to suggest that if an individual were aware of all variables in an instance of time, they would be able to perfectly predict the outcome. To me, in a chaotic universe, math just wouldn't be reliable the way it is. It may seem like chaos to us, but that may be because we're too small and can't see the bigger picture. In that case it would just be Ordered Chaos because of our limits of perceiving it. Even the slightest notion that life has order is something that I enjoy because it may mean there is a bigger being in which this order takes place.
Title: Re: Spirituality
Post by: Blizzard on February 03, 2014, 01:53:15 am
But doesn't that imply determinism then, that everything is predetermined and cannot be changed? Well, the current state of quantum physics says otherwise: the Uncertainty Principle (
I believe that the initial design of everything is on purpose, but how it evolved can be partially random.
Title: Re: Spirituality
Post by: Neoend on February 03, 2014, 03:04:46 am
Oh I didn't notice what I wrote led into that ,but yeah you're right it does imply it. I want to think there's a compromise. Mind you, as I'm sure you're aware, this is over simplification of a bigger topic, but what if the variables of an event, by free will could change their "value". To borrow from quantum physics, the concept of watching an experiment changing the outcome. If someone is aware of their own thought pattern, would it count as them making a different choice and changing their value? I'll admit, I've thought about this before when it came to free will vs destiny. Even in the above scenario, one could argue that the sequence of events leading to the point of someone watching their thought pattern could be predetermined and to that I say you got me. For me, the only way to express an example of that compromise  is someone who explicitly has knowledge of a future event, taking steps to based on that information. But it's just speculation and groundless. The more I think about it, the more it introduces paradoxes at our perception level. I believe that there is a bridge between the ordered chaos and freedom to evolve. It's just something I don't have the privilege of knowing yet.
I remember of reading before of an, if I recall correctly, Egyptian Spiritual-Universal law, that is the Law of Free Will. Essentially it means life has a right to choose. But it's a Law in of itself. And a paradox, but in the methodology the paradox is allowed. So it's like we're given a sand box. We're constrained by it's parameters but we can still make whatever we want, thus still have randomness that isn't really randomness ?
In the methodology, concepts such as Awareness and Causality were sacred. And to me the way it sounded, it's like everything reaches a certain point. How they get there or how long it takes is up to them.
On the science side, quantum physics has the Many World interpretation born from quantum observations, and a sub concept that constants of the universe such as the Universal Gravity constant, are different in the many worlds, and drastically affects their makeup.
Long Story Short, me trying to express a point on this matter turns into a mess because of my lack of knowledge, but I believe that yes we do live in an ordered chaos universe that allows freedom of choice for its denizens. There's so many things to have to take into account and too many avenues to explore but hey it's kind of fun. Note though, I don't say random, because that word carries strong implications.
Title: Re: Spirituality
Post by: Blizzard on February 03, 2014, 04:08:20 am
You are right about that paradox. If we know the outcome in advance, does that still count as determinism since we can now influence it? It really opens the question about free will. Maybe we only have the illusion of free will and are doing exactly as we it was determined in advance. The very fact that we are aware of determinism and want to counter it might be already predetermined. xD
Title: Re: Spirituality
Post by: Kiwa on February 03, 2014, 07:29:28 am
I've recently thought about religion as a way to absolve people of their responsibility.

we always look to a leader...that's why the bible its self calls us sheep. in my experience its completely true.
one person stands and shouts.. the others just follow.

Spoiler: ShowHide

This guy hits the nail on the head. lol.

I have a small book I've been writing with my observations in it. here is one that i wrote that i feel relates.

"Religion was created to absolve one of responsibility. Children look to their mother, wives look to their husbands...but who do men look to? or fatherless children with no support from heir mother?

By passing responsibility to a god, one can relieve themselves from the stresses of the burdens placed before them. 'This was gods choice, not mine'

-Governments of nations often default to socialistic systems for this same reason, its natural to want an escape from stressful inhibitors.

- It should come as no surprise that as religious dedication and moral convictions decay, our governments grow."

As divorce skyrockets in the USA, our welfare state grows (a socialistic program). the highest recipient off welfare is women with no husband.
Government is becoming the new husband, the new god.

while many of those who receive welfare still rely on faith, they can count their blessings a dollar at a time.
this defect from moral honor has been triggered by feminism, wearing a beautiful face mask of a victim and only wanting equality and political correctness, it combats religion in many ways.
Using this tactic and shaming people away from authority.

Religions have tried the same thing.
But I feel that with a healthy family environment ( a loving mother and father). we don't need religious law, feminist law, or anything of the sort.
its really a shame to see religion and feminism pushing that without their movement, people would be evil.
How arrogant!

I believe that religion was created with good intentions. however we as people have evolved, the need for a divine dictator is no longer needed. we don't need to look to a god for help...we need to look to loved ones.
and if you're alone you need to look into your self to see why you're alone...(i was one of them).

if there is a god, that is the father figure that we state he is nowadays...and not the jealous god that the bible states.
then like an earthly father he would take pride in seeing us stand on our own two feet.
he would be proud to see us ask questions and grow.
he would allow us freedom and show us the truth with no scorn, no force.
he would be proud to see is return to him after walking astray, and he would prepare the finest feast for us, as a sheep who was lost and then found and returns to the flock is far more valuable.

or as an earthly father, that is how i would feel. if we are made in his image..i can only imagine he would feel the same.

i hope others can agree.
Title: Re: Spirituality
Post by: Seltzer Cole on February 13, 2014, 01:55:07 am
I believe there are things outside of our universes existence that we will never understand, since we are stuck on the inside. Perhaps time does not even exist there but there are things that allow for a universe to blow up and exist. Whatever the case may be, we will never fully understand it.

As for a god or higher I don't believe in such things. I am more of a person that believes in evidence and facts and I have way to many proving god does not exist as opposed to him/her existing.
Title: Re: Spirituality
Post by: Blizzard on February 13, 2014, 02:15:11 am
Actually, no, you have no way of proving that god does not exist (as you have no way to prove that he does exist). In order to prove a negative, you first have assume the positive and then find counter examples which counter the initial hypothesis (basic logic, duh). Since god by itself is an undefined and vague mystery, you can't set up a hypothesis about god's existence.

I am a person of evidence and hard facts myself. But that doesn't mean that I can't believe.
Title: Re: Spirituality
Post by: Seltzer Cole on March 03, 2014, 12:58:26 am
Quote from: Blizzard on February 13, 2014, 02:15:11 am
Actually, no, you have no way of proving that god does not exist (as you have no way to prove that he does exist). In order to prove a negative, you first have assume the positive and then find counter examples which counter the initial hypothesis (basic logic, duh). Since god by itself is an undefined and vague mystery, you can't set up a hypothesis about god's existence.

I am a person of evidence and hard facts myself. But that doesn't mean that I can't believe.

I was meaning that I like to remain open minded. I consider both to be true and let the facts stack up. Proof that he does not exist outweighs the proof of his/her existence. Think of it as a scale and facts stack on both sides...which ever weighs more I will believe.
Title: Re: Spirituality
Post by: Blizzard on March 03, 2014, 02:02:38 am
I have never heard about any proofs for either side.
Title: Re: Spirituality
Post by: WhiteRose on March 03, 2014, 04:25:48 am
Quote from: Blizzard on March 03, 2014, 02:02:38 am
I have never heard about any proofs for either side.

That's actually exactly what I was thinking as I read his post, as well.
Title: Re: Spirituality
Post by: Seltzer Cole on March 09, 2014, 01:00:54 am
Quote from: Blizzard on March 03, 2014, 02:02:38 am
I have never heard about any proofs for either side.

Obviously one cannot prove god does not exist. I can think up a million different things and then present some sort of evidence to attempt to prove it is real. There is no 100% "factual proof" of his/her existence however. Just claims which can be argued. Maybe I do not spend enough time explaining things and I type half ass sentences on here, my apologies.

My "proof" I so quickly typed and clicked "Post" without second thought was meant to be the argument of faith. Which in itself is believing with no evidence. I am a person of evidence and facts. Without that, I simply see no need for faith or else I might as well believe in the one eyes monster from planet X.
Title: Re: Spirituality
Post by: Blizzard on March 09, 2014, 01:24:12 pm
Lol, no problem.

If you mean that faith is not needed in a religious sense, I really have no opinion on that. But if you mean that faith in general is useless, I strongly disagree. I think that faith can push us forward to be better people (and this doesn't apply to just to religious faith). Most people lack the self-discipline to better themselves. Religion and faith kind of create a workaround for that, because they promise a reward for being good and becoming a better person. I think that can only be positive. The problem is obviously that religions are man-made and as such they are just as flawed and when people abuse this stuff (e.g. the Crusades). This is why one should always take everything with a grain of salt and rather than blindly believing what the religions says, they should use their own critical thinking to come to a conclusion that furthers and betters oneself.