[XP] A Better Style of Title Screen?

Started by Heretic86, October 07, 2012, 09:09:06 am

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Heretic86

October 07, 2012, 09:09:06 am Last Edit: October 08, 2012, 08:28:40 am by Heretic86
(Deleted since the idea is apparently garbage)
Current Scripts:
Heretic's Moving Platforms

Current Demos:
Collection of Art and 100% Compatible Scripts

(Script Demos are all still available in the Collection link above.  I lost some individual demos due to a server crash.)

Calintz

i'm fond of the idea, but static images are not so bad if presented properly. very many famous titles have static title screens, even today...the final fantasies still use static images to present their titles. Kingdom Hearts did a good job as well.

at any rate, i find the font for your lettering to be stale, and it of course does not compliment the standard command window for making your selection. if you're hell bent on making your title screen stand out i recommend overseeing some more modifications. good luck my friend. i'll keep in touch.

Calintz

October 07, 2012, 09:48:04 pm #2 Last Edit: October 07, 2012, 09:59:37 pm by Calintz
personal opinion, no.
i don't believe this "style" of title screen to be more appealing or superior in any way to a properly used static image.

My Thoughts:
Spoiler: ShowHide
a title screen is a title screen, you know? sure, it's the first thing that your audience will see when they play your indie game, so obviously we need it to captivate them. you need to put enough effort into your title screen to speak to the players and intrigue them for what's to come, but at the same time we need to be careful not to reveal too much of our game with it. in this case, by using screenshots of the gameplay you are directly showing the players what's to come. that may intrigue some people, but others may see it as laziness (oh, he couldn't come up with anything better, so he just used a few screenshots. how good can this game be if this is the kind of effort to be expected throughout?). it's obviously a very important piece of your game, but it's just a title screen at the same time. in my honest opinion, a title screen doesn't need to be anything more than a single static image. it does the job when presented properly.


as far as windowskins and command windows. unless you are keeping things low key i'd remove them all together and use images for your command window in a style that mimics the lettering for your title. i'm not fond of the default command window as is on boot up. looks terrible when combined with most everything. just plain ugly.

also, were you expecting this to catch on with the general public or something? you mentioned that i may be overlooking the general idea by focusing too highly on specifics but i don't see any other way to look at it, especially given that you said you were going for style above all else. to say you're going for style implies individuality, so why worry of the general public and the idea aimed at a mass audience? i think you should stay concerned with whether this works for you and you alone. there are many people here who will give you their thoughts and opinions, but my advice is to not worry about the idea generally. if you're gonna go for it, go for it.

Calintz

October 07, 2012, 10:03:14 pm #3 Last Edit: October 07, 2012, 10:09:44 pm by Calintz
your anger comes from the fact that you lack the artistic ability to create something original, which certainly does not change the fact that a static image can work just fine for someone who has the potential to create one.

i said it before, i'll say it again...i'm fond of your idea and i believe that it can reach out to people if you do it right. i'm only implying that this form of title screen is not "better" than any other. like most things, each has its pros and cons.

i'm not saying to not release the script. you'll most likely get power ups because as you mentioned, you're definitely not the only person who can't draw. i'm not great at it either.

p.s. grow up. also, put that image in a spoiler. also, i won't post on this topic again. good luck friend.

Calintz

Quote from: Heretic86 on October 07, 2012, 10:11:58 pm
But you went as far as to imply that anyone that would make an effort for any sort of different style is lazy and makes their games come across being anything other than to use only the default materials provided is insulting to everyone, not just me.  I did not expect the level of negativity, not just towards the idea, but anyone that would use the idea.


no i didn't.

Blizzard

October 08, 2012, 07:14:10 am #5 Last Edit: October 08, 2012, 07:31:13 am by Blizzard
Most of you probably noticed that I barely read the forum or reply even less, but since Heretic asked me to delete this thread, I have first read it and I feel that I should offer my perspective as I deem it vital.

First of all, there are two things that I noticed on the side. Just for you I have dug out this post (read it and the rest until the end of the page). http://rmrk.net/index.php/topic,1969.msg72515.html#msg72515 Notice something familiar? I see a person who doesn't take criticism too well. *points at past self about 7 years ago*
There was also another post about how CP's title screen looks bad (too lazy to dig it out now). I like it the way it is and I don't really care, because I made this game for myself.
What I am trying to say: Take a breath. Nobody is attacking you or your abilities. That title screen is NOT YOU and you should not identify with it. Ideally you shouldn't even be emotionally invested in it, but I know how difficult it can be to be apathetic towards something you created yourself. Just let go. I don't know you in person, but I am confident that you are an ambitious and positive person, at least that is what I have gathered from your posts here. That title screen doesn't change who you are or how people see you (not that you should care about what other think of you, but this is so much easier said than done).

Before I get back on topic, I just want to add one more thing. The difference between flaming and criticism is pretty obvious. When somebody flames or insults, they will just say that it's bad or whatever while criticism will offer you either insight about why it's bad or what you can do to improve it or both. That criticism is not for you, it's for your work. If you take the criticism as such and try to get the best out of it and if you learn to do that consistently, you will get far in life.

The self-reference of what I just wrote is kind of funny, too. This is basically criticism on your behavior (NOT YOUR PERSON, DO NOT IDENTIFY WITH YOUR BEHAVIOR EITHER, your behavior is only a product of your lack of experience to deal with criticism).




Now that I have that off the table...
IMO when using a map as title screen, it should not be static at any cost. You have a map as title screen, it means you can animate stuff. You can move stuff around, you can move the map display around, you have so much potential to make it look much better than a generic static title screen. You should use this potential.
Or just go with a simple title screen. I did. Sure, I added those fancy electric animations and the title menu is not your average RMXP menu with 3 choices (there is no window skin and you slide the options left/right while the adjacent options are half-faded into the background). Again, it is a static image, yet it looks good (if only for not using RMXP's default menu which basically breaks everything it touches).

The point of a title screen is not that it is your game trailer (which is why I personally usually dislike the concept of map as title screen). The point is simply that it should invite the player, that it should hint at what is to come. Take a look at these examples.

Darksiders Title Screen: ShowHide

Darksiders Title Menu: ShowHide


Would you call this title screen lazy? Hell yes, I would. But it does its job. It hints at you that you are about to embark into an epic adventure (the burning logo mostly).
What about the title menu? While it certainly looks more complex (let's be real), all they did is put the main character in a bad-ass pose there. Lazy? Yeah, it is. Does it look good? Fuck yeah, it does. Why? It amps up the title screen. Not only is this going to be an epic adventure, you even get to feel like a bad-ass.
Have the title screen and title menu done their job? You tell me. Would you want to play the game just from seeing them? Are you at least curious? Do they at least look cool regardless of how you feel about the game? If you answered any of these questions with yes, then they have done their job and they are being consistent with the game.

Now to your title screen. I understand that you put the game title there just for the sake of it. The font might look good on it, but the effects don't (tip: avoid generic soft emboss effects, they always make text look cheap if not done in a great way). When I looked at it the first time, I thought immediately "oh, generic Photoshop". Again, I understand that this was put there just for the sake, but I want to give criticism on it regardless. Why? Because I believe that I can offer a simple, yet effective alternative which you may not even have thought of. I will get to that later. I also agree, get rid of the default menu, at least for the title screen.

Now to the title screen in general. From what I would gather from the current title screen, it gives me a feeling of a classical magical adventure full of mysteries ahead (let me guess, there is some sort of classical or classical sounding music used as title music?). This is a collective impression from the current title screen style, the name of the game as well as the style of font used for the title (regardless of effects). Embossing is usually used in technical/modern/cool styles so it clashes with the general feel (which is probably why it may not look so good). Here is an example of what magical should look like.

generic magical shit: ShowHide

more magical shit: ShowHide


See how it looks like? It's shiny, it's glowing. Yes, it does have an emboss effect, but that emboss effect is used well as it amplifies the feeling of something shiny and glowing (in other words, the font looks like it was carved of metal and we all know how shiny metal is). This is just an example, mind you. There is an alternative to this.

so full of shit... uhm, I mean magic: ShowHide


Notice what they have in common? Glow. They are glowing magically, this is what makes them magical.

more generic magical stuff, possibly something with nature because of all the green and the tree silhouette, Mana series anyone?: ShowHide


Now, don't beat yourself up over this. It's true that this kind of font effect can be done in 5 minutes as well (well, maybe not the smoke effect in the background), but font/text design is not easy and there are people who learn this stuff for months before they know what works and how to use it. It's a skill like any other and it can be learned. If you don't have this skill, it's ok. I understand that you may want to create the title screen yourself, but don't be afraid to ask for help with the title logo. Or, if you want to do it all yourself, criticism is the only thing that can get you there, because it will show you where you made mistakes so you can fix them. Criticism is the best thing that you can get if you haven't developed a skill yet.

As for your title menu, there is a simple way out there. Scrap the menu and either use a menu with images as buttons using a fancy effect font (use a similar font in style and less effects than in the game logo) or remove the window skin (or use a good equivalent) and simply use a nice font for the options. There are scripts for this or you can make one yourself (better you do it yourself, it will make you feel as if you almost made the text images itself even if you get somebody else to make them). e.g. in CP I am actually using a window skin in the title.

C WUT I DID THAR?: ShowHide


What do I get? The font Brush Script combined with a black border outline and this glow for menu item selection, I get that semi-magical feel while the title logo itself gives you a classical-epic-bad-ass adventure feeling.

the classical-epic-bad-ass-adventure-and-shit logo: ShowHide


IMO ideally a title screen should be a premise or a one-sentence version of the game. Examples of one-sentence summaries:

1. Some dude beats up a bunch of terrorist assholes who kidnapped his daughter. (plot of Taken)
2. Some dude beats up a bunch of monsters to find the main asshole who fucked him up to get revenge on him. (plot of Darksiders)
3. A secret agency with its crazy adventures and a narcissistic asshole secret agent as main character. (plot of Archer)
4. Some kid gets into magic school and uncovers an evil plot by some double-faced (literally) villain. (plot of first Harry Potter movie)
5. Some dude learns magic tricks with a laser sword, saves a princess and blows up a giant space station. (plot of Star Wars)
6. Some dude wearing a costume beats up a bunch of bad guys and prevents a city from being blown up after anarchy has broken out. (plot of Batman: The Dark Knight rises)
7. Some dude and his friends acquire godlike power and beat up a bunch of assholes who can transform into monsters to stop some insane scientist from another universe to merge all parallel universes into one. (plot of Lexima Legends 4: Chaos Project)

Does CP's title screen say that? Yes, it kinda does. There's universe, there's magic, there's that's "godlike power" feeling (mainly because of the electrical currents on the title),

the narcissistic asshole Sterling Archer, aka. the most awesome character ever: ShowHide


The last part that I want to address a bit more thoroughly is the title screen itself. As I already said, a static map screen looks even more generic than a title screen with custom art. Have you seen CP's first title screen before I made it part of the LL series? I used one of the wallpapers I made.

OH GOD MY EYES: ShowHide


Can you see what's wrong with this title screen? I don't see anything, because it was perfect for the first version of CP (even though I could list a bunch of stuff not being well done, starting with the color palette over unreadable text straight to awkward placements of logo and email). I would sum up the first version of CP like this: A bunch of people get randomly trapped in on another planet and to get back home, they have to find the asshole responsible and foil his world/universe domination/destruction plans. Does this title screen say all of that? Well, shit's going crazy in the title screen which is basically what is happening in the game. That combined with some epic title music (different from the current one, it is actually the track that plays in front of Giada Castle after Jason gets his shit together) gave you some feeling of it still being an epic adventure with magic and shit.

So your options are either a full-blown map with lots of stuff going on to show the vastness of the world (and maybe tranquility, IDK what you are going for) or make a stylistic title screen (which can be animated in some way, Darksiders wasn't fully static either and I have purple and green electrical currents on my logo swishing around) that tells the story of your game in one sentence. A title screen is definitely easier to make.




I hope that I haven't wasted almost two hours to write and put together this post and that you can understand my perspective as well as understand what I have written for you in the first section of this post. This post is packed with a lot of feedback, suggestions and criticism, not only related to your title screen. At least it shows that I actually care to explain to you. If somebody did this for me, I'd have sex with them to show my gratitude. No homo.

EDIT: Some of you reading this post may notice how it differs from the style of writing that I usually do. Well, get used to it. I worked on my social/communication/conversation/humor skills (yes, humor and comedy are skills) and got them to a level that I didn't think was possible and this is the result. It's better than bacon.
Also, try reading this post while Guile's Theme is playing the the background. Oh god, it really goes with everything.
Check out Daygames and our games:

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Drinking Game for Android      Never have I ever for Android
Drinking Game for iOS      Never have I ever for iOS


Quote from: winkioI do not speak to bricks, either as individuals or in wall form.

Quote from: Barney StinsonWhen I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

Calintz


diagostimo

to be honest i really liked the idea you had going, but didnt want to jump into the war going on :P i agree with blizzard about the text, as for the map image, i think it would far enhace them if you animated them, even if it is adding moving characters around the map, and fogs ect, then it will feel alot more dynamic, and even so you could add fading between maps, showing and scrolling over major cities ect so that its not to much of a spoiler, or even if your using an abs you could show a couple of example battles so the player knows what sort of stuff waits for them :)

Blizzard

Check out Daygames and our games:

King of Booze 2      King of Booze: Never Ever
Drinking Game for Android      Never have I ever for Android
Drinking Game for iOS      Never have I ever for iOS


Quote from: winkioI do not speak to bricks, either as individuals or in wall form.

Quote from: Barney StinsonWhen I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

Calintz

@ Blizzard:
i felt you deserved it for that lengthy explanation.

i wish things hadn't turned out the way they did; i mentioned that i had said on more than one occasion that i was fond of his idea, but i was never able to get into the pros and cons of my own thoughts because he was so quick to play the victim and delete his topic. i felt it was pointless to pursue.

end result is ironic. i have come up with an idea that is based off of this that i will more than likely than use in my own game.

Heretic86

Im still requesting the thread be deleted.  If you like the idea, then start it as a new thread and leave me the fuck out of it.
Current Scripts:
Heretic's Moving Platforms

Current Demos:
Collection of Art and 100% Compatible Scripts

(Script Demos are all still available in the Collection link above.  I lost some individual demos due to a server crash.)

G_G

Dude, calm down. You need to learn how to accept criticism. Calintz wasn't attacking you or your idea. He was simply giving you suggestions. As was Blizzard. I know that can be hard sometimes, but trust me, they're just trying to help you. You don't have to accept the criticism, but you don't have to be an ass about it either.

Blizzard

I will not delete this topic due to the fact that there is useful information provided here. But I will lock it as I see that there is no point in talking with you. Asshole.
Check out Daygames and our games:

King of Booze 2      King of Booze: Never Ever
Drinking Game for Android      Never have I ever for Android
Drinking Game for iOS      Never have I ever for iOS


Quote from: winkioI do not speak to bricks, either as individuals or in wall form.

Quote from: Barney StinsonWhen I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.