ABS or SV?

[[Faint]]

I really can't decide if I want to use Blizz-ABS or Sideview. I love the ABS but I am a fan of turn based RPG's.

Could anyone give me so pro's to Sideview battle system and possibly suggest a good Sidview battler script/ battle system?

[legacyblade]

pros of sideveiw:

• easier than ABS


• less ugly and boring than front view


• less work on the spriters


• easier for people with no reflexes, who want to think for a few hours between each move


• you can have fancy effects that wouldn't work as well in ABS (long animation sequences that make seeing the screen almost impossible. These are just annoying in an ABS )

Pros of ABS

• Just awesome


• More realistic


• Keeps people awake during battles


• Lets skill and reflex rather than hard stats determine how well one will do in battle (though the hard stats play a role)


• More people would want to play


• more unique features to give your game publicity (most use side view, less use ABS)

[[Faint]]

alright, I will stick with the ABS most likely. just trying to decide what is best for my style of sprites.

[Calintz]

I don't agree with a lot of those pros and cons. O_o.

[[Faint]]

Can I get your input?

[Blizzard]

SV is not a battle system, it's a battle system perpective. You must be meaning turn based or RTAB.

[Calintz]

Well, Legacy says ...

pros SVBS:
1. easier than the ABS (maybe)
2. more appealing than a frontview (depends)
3. less work on the spriters ... (honestly?)
4. easier for people without reflexes (yes)
5. fancy effects (perhaps)

pros ABS:
1. just awesome (great advice :v:)
2. more realistic (i'll give this one to you)
3. keeps people awake (I don't know anyone who played FF falling asleep in mid-battle O_o)
4. more people would want to play (tune in below for this one)
5. more publicity!! (LMAO)

Okay ...
A SVBS is most definitely more appealing than the default front view in RPGXP, but any SVBS can be modified to give the battle a frontview feel with increased aesthetics. My personal opinion tells me that SVBS are more appealing than ABSs as well, simply because there is greater level of detail in all of the spriting, which brings me to the next point. EASIER on the spriters!?!? Are you mad!!??

Please explain how spriting a character twice the size of the standard RTP charaset is easier. Not to mention equipping them with weapons and merging the two together throughout all their animations, rather than just creating a spriteset of rotating icons. I don't really want to take all the time to get into this, but in a good SVBS, each character should have roughly 10-15 poses. ABSs for RPGXP don't have this many. Nowhere near this many!! Creating 2-3poses for a character in a SVBS is almost the same amount of work to create a fully animated ABS fighter. The sheer level of detail is the deciding factor in this argument. Depending on how many heroes and enemies are in your game ... I can't stand behind that statement, I'm sorry Legacy. I am shocked that's coming from a spriter!!

Like I said earlier, I have never felt SVBS are boring. If they were, they wouldn't sell ...
Let's the skill determine. Skill of what?? Pushing buttons on a keyboard!? If you ask me, I would rather select options and use my brain to maneuver strategic plans, than run around and mash buttons on a keyboard, not to mention how many keys are customizable in ABSs. Some may find this positive, but to me, it's just a hassle to try to keep track of all the shit.

More people want to play ... fail.
More publicity ... IDK. Final Fantasy has great publicity and always used SVBS style until very recently.

Generally, if your looking for a PC game, I would say SVBS all the way, but if it is on a console, then ABS.

[[Faint]]

Could you suggest a good side view system please? I would love to test it out.

[Aqua]

@Cal:
When he said less work for spriters, LB meant different sprites for each action and subaction.
Like sword would look different than bow & a slash skill would look different than a spell.

[Calintz]

I don't follow Aqua.

@Faint:
I would recommend either Minkoff's Animated Battlers, or Enu's SVBS Tankentai XP.

[legacyblade]

On the sprites, it's easier because you sprite everything from ONE angle. You don't have to figure out how to get it from all four. And honestly, doing some front veiw animations with an RTP sprite is annoying as heck. While getting the proper level of detail required for a sideview sprite is hard, the fact that they're so much larger makes them much easier to animate, since you have more space. Furthermore, most poses for spells and the like are MUCH easier in side view, though there are a few that are harder in this view. As a spriter, I'd rather draw an animation ONCE for each actor, not slave over each one 4 times, particulalrly due to the sheer NUMBER of poses I have to do for the ABS (10-15 poses sounds GREAT to me. You've almost convinced me to switch just to lower my work load ) Also, turn based battle systems generally either bore or annoy the crap out of me. I stopped playing FF7 because the high frequency of the annoying turn based battles got just too irritating.

As for the more publicity, if you have a nice looking ABS in your screen shot, and you pull it off well, that's a big draw to your game. Quintessence even benefits (in terms of drawing people in)from the fact that it's an ABS. And it's not really a very GOOD ABS, lol.

But for sidevews, aye, the one aqua suggested are the best.

[Calintz]

Legacy ... you do not have to sprite everything from one angle. I'm not. My characters are facing 3 / 4, and the enemies are too. That is two separate angles. 3 / 4 of the front, and 3 / 4 of the back. The battle system itself allows for this kind of customization, because a side view script is nothing more than an advanced graphics enhancement.

Front view characters 32 x 48 in the RTP style can only be annoying if you aren't used to the style ... O_o.

Yeah, 10-15 poses per character ... (40-60) for a party of 4, not to mention fully animated ...
You must be a god at spriting if you think that spriting a 32 x 48 character is easier than spriting a 128 x 96!! As for animating them, you can't simply slide 1pixel to the left, or slide 1pixel to the right to animate side view battlers. You have to rotate shoulders, and flex the knees to make them bob. Not to mention that when using a side view ALL the characters must be placed in different stances to add originality. Every character in an ABS for RMXP all have the same poses. No fun there ...

Umm ... Legacy,
if you have a nice side view in your game's screenshot, and you pull it off well, umm ... that's a big draw for your game too O_o.

Maybe it's just me, but I can't see how doing spell animations on a smaller scale is harder than doing them in high definition ... Then again, you never gave specifications, you just said they were ... O_o.

[legacyblade]

The reason I think larger sprites are easier is because it's easier to get in all the detail you need, as well as make the poses look decent. (the sliding things around one or two pixels on RTP sprites has always looked terrible to me, so I slave over the poses for awhile). And by one angle, I mean that you only have to draw it from a single angle. Just because it's showing part of the front and the back doesn't make it two separate angles, in my mind anyways. The thing that bothers me about spriting front view sprites is the sheer annoyance of making them do something as simple as moving their hand forward. Since you're at a bird's eye view, making it bigger (moving it "towards the camera") just is making them reach up slightly into the sky. It's our only real option, but it bugs the crap out of me how limited a front view is.

And personally, if I saw a screenshot of a well done ABS vs an equally well done side view, I'd be more excited by the ABS. All the D&D makes me dread boring turn based battles

[Magus]

TBQH, side-view battles bored me to death

[Calintz]

Lol, well I suppose we have our own views. I don't agree with anything that you've said, but that's just me ...
Anyway, we both have spilled our input. Good luck Faint.

[RoseSkye]

Legacy ... you do not have to sprite everything from one angle. I'm not. My characters are facing 3 / 4, and the enemies are too. That is two separate angles. 3 / 4 of the front, and 3 / 4 of the back. The battle system itself allows for this kind of customization, because a side view script is nothing more than an advanced graphics enhancement.

Front view characters 32 x 48 in the RTP style can only be annoying if you aren't used to the style ... O_o.

Yeah, 10-15 poses per character ... (40-60) for a party of 4, not to mention fully animated ...
You must be a god at spriting if you think that spriting a 32 x 48 character is easier than spriting a 128 x 96!! As for animating them, you can't simply slide 1pixel to the left, or slide 1pixel to the right to animate side view battlers. You have to rotate shoulders, and flex the knees to make them bob. Not to mention that when using a side view ALL the characters must be placed in different stances to add originality. Every character in an ABS for RMXP all have the same poses. No fun there ...

Umm ... Legacy,
if you have a nice side view in your game's screenshot, and you pull it off well, umm ... that's a big draw for your game too O_o.

Maybe it's just me, but I can't see how doing spell animations on a smaller scale is harder than doing them in high definition ... Then again, you never gave specifications, you just said they were ... O_o.

Cal, coming from someone thats getting everything customized.. its more work. The ABS is  more work.. especially if you have a visual equipment script. You have to get EVERYTHING changed.

Running sprites, defending sprites, skill sprites, action sprites, item sprites, attack sprites, etc.. and since you can animate more than 4x4 frames it is definitely more of a task. We've been spending months doing sprites and such for the game and its so much of an hassle that we're hiring another spriter.

[Calintz]

I'll give that to you guys.
Creating ALL the resources for an ABS is more tedious and time consuming than creating ALL the resources for a SVBS, but the spriting itself is in no way "more difficult."

Spriting at a general higher level of detail IS NOT easier than spriting on a smaller scale. I don't care what anybody says about it. Creating ONE fully animated 128 x 96 battler sprite will take much more time and effort than creating ONE fully animated 32 x 48 character sprite.

With the ABS there is simply more graphics required. In no way does that make it harder, simply more tedious. There is a big difference.

[RoseSkye]

I'll give that to you guys.
Creating ALL the resources for an ABS is more tedious and time consuming than creating ALL the resources for a SVBS, but the spriting itself is in no way "more difficult."

Spriting at a general higher level of detail IS NOT easier than spriting on a smaller scale. I don't care what anybody says about it. Creating ONE fully animated 128 x 96 battler sprite will take much more time and effort than creating ONE fully animated 32 x 48 character sprite.

With the ABS there is simply more graphics required. In no way does that make it harder, simply more tedious. There is a big difference.

You've activated my trap card!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seBxiQKfRPw&feature=player_profilepage#


This was done by spriter, Southerland_Zero. She animated these sprites from scratch. Now she's doing it for Mid Autumn Garden which this style will be in ALL directions instead of just left and right. So tell me again how ABS sprites doesn't require more work than side battle sprites.. and be direct.

[Calintz]

@RoseSkye ...
I didn't say that ABSs don't require more work. I agreed that creating an ABS DOES require MORE work.
Please read my previous post once more. My stand point is that creating more detailed sprites is harder than creating standard RTP sprites. You will notice that 75% of the games in production using an ABS use RTP graphics, not high level sprites. That has been my argument all along.

The level of detail that the game's creator chooses to incorporate is solely up to them.
The simple fact that you've chosen to incorporate a style that is a derivative of a SVBS; I would have to say that you find the level of detail of a SVBS more aesthetically pleasing to one's eye than the average ABS. That alone says good things. Once more, not to mention that I NEVER said SVBS required more work. I said that the sprites are harder to build!!

I said, that completing ONE sideview battler is going to be more time consuming and more challenging than completing ONE standard RTP ABS battler. You are choosing to incorporate a higher level of spriting. While that WILL cause more work, it still does not make it harder.

P.S.
I will shun you if I don't see some of those battlers in your game for real.

[RoseSkye]

I said, that completing ONE sideview battler is going to be more time consuming and more challenging than completing ONE standard RTP ABS battler. You are choosing to incorporate a higher level of spriting. While that WILL cause more work, it still does not make it harder.

You have no idea what you just said, if you did.. you wouldn't have said it.