The worst story negative

[Starrodkirby86]

So I started this thread because I always have a fickle time with the storyline, which I'm sure many of you people also have this problem. However, there are many easy hardships that come, especially notorious ones. Which one is the worst of the group, the least favorite of your all, the head honcho of the storyline killers, and...ah, you get the picture.

• Stale characters. These kinds of characters are very unmemorable. It's all right if it's your average run-of-the-mill NPC, but when it's a main character or someone rather important, a problem arises. A stale character has a flawed or common personality, does not change at all as the game continues, and cannot be analyzed easily.
  
  Example of a stale character:
  Name: Kharl
  Job: Soldier
  Description: Kharl is a hot headed soldier. He is a true soldier to his roots, as ancestors of Kharl's kinds were also soldiers. He is a master of the blade.
  
  Why this character bombs:
  There are so much people that have these traits. You wouldn't remember him unless he changes, or has something interesting and intriguing. There's some tempered people in other stories, but they have changing personalities as the story goes out so they are more memorable...'least in the good stories.




• Plot Devices. Plot devices are handicaps that people use to benefit them to continue on to the next segment of story. The most famous one is the MacGuffin, which is a very common plot device. A MacGuffin is an object of motivation (Usually something legendary) that drives people to continue, but when you remove these reasons to the motivational object, it becomes obsolete. Like for example, the treasure at the Grand Line in One Piece. That's a MacGuffin. You can look at it in Wikipedia.


• Cliches. Cliches are so overused that it isn't as marvelous as it used to be. For example, Final Fantasy is very famous of cliches. Or at least people who make RPGs and adapt from Final Fantasy have their RPG totally leaked with cliches. A good example of a cliche is a story of revenge. See that, and you have a cliche. Stuff that are obviously based off something else should go to this category.


• Plot Holes.Extremely annoying elements of story. Plot holes are inconsistencies or illogical things that don't answer the reader or the story all too well. Usually, with a problem there would be a reason, but if there is no reason there is an inconsistency, making a plot hole. People who read the story (Or go on through the story, as this is a game ) can easily realize plot holes.
  

I'm sorry if this sounds so strange, I am right now multitasking. ^^

[Calintz]

I voted for all of them, because each it's own has it seperate effects on the game...

[winkio]

I agree with Calintz, but I think the worst are cliches and stupidity.  I mean stupidity of the main character, such as falling right into obvious traps and trusting rather shady individuals.  Or stupidity of the villain.  You know what I'm talking about.

[Calintz]

About that Winkio...It's actually quite amazing isn't it!? How when the main characters fall into traps for obvious reasons, it's make a negative impact, however if the trap was well concealed with other sections of the story, those traps can be the MOST exciting parts of a video game!! Ironic, isn't it!??

Main Characters:
When you make a bad main character, I personally don't think it's dangerously bad for the game, just very negligent. It makes the player bored quickly, which is a turn off, but the game itself can still be saved without a good main character.

Plot Devices:
If the plot device is well-thought and if you shadow it well with interesting events throughout the entire game, I don't see device plots being a problem...

Cliches:
Lol, cliches...So many things could be said about cliches, but I'll keep it short. I have an outlook relatively the same as I did on Main Characters for Cliches.

Plot Holes:
These are bad in my eyes. I hate it when there is either no reason for doing what you're doing, or there is absolutely no outcome to the event's accomplishment. I become very disinterested in game that have these.

**Square Enix does well to avoid all of these negatives.

[legacyblade]

I hate all of them. Though I think flat or stock characters (you called theme stale characters) makes the game boring. If one character is so well known that we can all predict everything he'll say, and can see through his paper thin personality, then the game is screwed. Also cliches...nuff said, they suck. Plot holes are also quite annoying, I hate when things don't make sense. If it couldn't ever happen, it shouldn't in game.

Plot devices are ok, as long as you disguise them. The kidnapped princess you have to rescue is an obvious one, but if she is the protagonists best friend, they don't know she's a princess, and the hero's other best friend has easy access to her, and is trying to restore her lost heart (did someone say Kairi?), you can't see her for a plot device as well.

[Blizzard]

I also voted all.

• Stale characters. I pretty much hate predictable heroes. I mean, sure, a hero should still have a consistent personality and not seem schizophremic (LOL, don't steal this idea!), but being completely predictable makes a game dull and uninteresting. I mean why should I play it if I know exactly what will happen?
  
  
• Plot Devices. I agree with legacyblade, plot devices are ok if they are disguised well since without plot devices there is no plot.
  
  
• Cliches. Cliches are sometimes unavoidable, but they should be kept to a complete minimum. Keep in mind that a cliché isn't just a necessary overused piece of plot, it's generally an overused piece of plot that everybody has gotten enough of.
  
  
• Plot Holes. I hate 'em, that's all I can say. When plot holes are thoroughly explained, though, they can make the game much more interesting.

And I have to disagree, Square avoided those treats, Square Enix doesn't. i.e. The powerhungry villain Seymour who wants to be a god (again). Or Titus, the pure purest pure good (boring) hero who actually would never do the female main character, because he's such a good (and boring) friend. =/ At least it resembles the reality, the "good friends" never get the girl. xD

[Starrodkirby86]

Obvious plot devices are a no-go, but of course ones that not every reader can find out are exceptional. I realize this, as I was multitasking when creating the topic, but nevertheless. And every RPG has to have some cliche, it's just that the obvious one (Such as revenge, where it's used in such a predictable way) makes it really...jejune.

But there's hard avoidance with a plot hole, especially as the story progresses on. You can clot it up with some solution to the illogical part of it, but there'll be something wrong with that. Most of the time it won't end up pretty trying to disguise or give a good answer with a plot hole, and they're extremely despicable.

Thanks guys for replying, usually many topics I make get ignored or dead within the next hour. ^^;

[Fallen Angel X]

I voted for stale characters!  I WOULD say all of them but I'm actually pretty ok with cliches especially since I have the way of thinking like "Sure it's cliche but what happens between the beginning and the end is the most important!" Like for example "Getting Revenge!" VERY common  :-\ BUT when you put in enough twists like say... your best friend/someone close to you, ends up being the one you tried to kill in the end when it completely points out to another guy  Yeah sorry if the example I used was cliche too it's just that I'm also homeworking 

[legacyblade]

I don't know why, but last year, I suddenly became a cliche crusader. After every movie we went to, I ranted about a cliche trait in some character, or a cliche plot use. I lectured everyone the whole way home about the use of cliches, and how they ruin a story. Also, I gave my mom heck when she used cliche idioms (like I just did). It's getting less intense (I don't attack people for using cliches), but I still hate them.

[Fallen Angel X]

It's probably b/c you nitpick at all the details and find EVERY possible cliche, even the new ones that are probably popping up 

[legacyblade]

No, it's because I got too much into that creative writing course. My story creation became so good (lost most of it at scout camp somehow) that the teacher gave me permission to submit 12 pages of the story I was writing in place of any assignments. I loved that class, but I steeped myself in textbooks on writing so much, that I started going insane. I couldn't enjoy any story, because they were all filled with Cliches. To protect my sanity, I refrained from playing Kingdom Hearts, because I didn't want to find a cliche in there on accident, and shatter my world.

[Fallen Angel X]

lol I'll admit school can do that to you  My protection (please kids don't follow my example) is not doing my homework!!!!  But yeah on a serious note... Almost EVERYTHING has a cliche if you look hard enough which is why I've grown to be pretty accustomed to them.

Yeah, I ended my crusade for the sake of sanity. But I can't take your solution, since I'm a straight A student, and am in collage now

Good point! I'm to used to be lazy yet surprisingly I'm working on a game  The irony.

[legacyblade]

Yeah, I ended my crusade for the sake of sanity. But I can't take your solution, since I'm a straight A student, and am in collage now

[Starrodkirby86]

I don't know why, but last year, I suddenly became a cliche crusader. After every movie we went to, I ranted about a cliche trait in some character, or a cliche plot use. I lectured everyone the whole way home about the use of cliches, and how they ruin a story. Also, I gave my mom heck when she used cliche idioms (like I just did). It's getting less intense (I don't attack people for using cliches), but I still hate them.

If you're going to attack at something that's leaked with cliches, I recommend Tales of Symphonia. It's not a bad game by all means (In fact, it's a very epic RPG and pretty good for a Tales), but there's so much cliches in there it's extremely laughable. Like the "Chosen One", I am your father, Hometown burned to smithereens, hot headed person, etc. etc....

Another RPG that is loaded with cliches (This one even more) is Super Paper Mario. Once again, this is a wonderful game that is action-oriented (And successful), but when it comes to the storyline it falls apart. (Collecting seven stars I think, saving the world, typical love story, best friend [brother] being your enemy etc.) I still wonder why Super Paper Mario won best storyline on Nintendo Power's award, and not Fire Emblem! Fire Emblem had a better story, 'least a better one than Mario. >_>


Then again, you're retired from cliche finding. That's now my job eh? XD

[Fallen Angel X]

lols like I said before Cliches are ok... I don't get why you guys are nitpicking at them  :-\

[Starrodkirby86]

They're so funny, even though they are okay. It's amusing when you predict what happens next and whoop-de-doo, that event you foresee actually initiates! That's basically the kind of story Super Paper Mario is.

Sure, cliches are great, after all..."It is a cliche that most cliches are true, but then like most cliches, that cliche is untrue".

If you understand that, kudos to you. If you don't, oh well, terribly sorry, deeply analyze that one more time and once you do understand it you have more mastery of the English language (And by all means, that makes your literature in any project you're developing more...beautiful, per se).

[Fallen Angel X]

Lol I got most of that line but what is untrue? And I still don't see an improvement in my literature.  :-\

[Blizzard]

How about a hero who is obsessed with revenge. It's more like a parody. Everything something happens, he has to revenge it. Like, his friend screws him over and joins the villain. Now the hero wants revenge on both of them.
Some guy sells the hero a broken weapon, now he wants revenge for that.
Some guy overpriced his items, now he wants revenge for it.

LMAO

[legacyblade]

Ok, I hate cliches in movies and books. Video Games are better off. Also a Chosen One isn't a cliche, it is just an overused function. In my stuff, I've put a slight twist by lots of conflicting destinies, and lots of Chosens, some of which end up destroying someone else's prophecy in order to fulfill theres. But mainly, cliche's don't go well in serious games. You can get away with "I'm your father" or "I'm your older brother who you thought was dead", but it is annoying.

P.S. Paper Mario is an exception, cliche's make mario. I also love the times when they said something like "what is this 1 button I speak of? Don't worry, the great being who controls our actions knows." I loled when that happened.

[Starrodkirby86]

How about a hero who is obsessed with revenge. It's more like a parody. Everything something happens, he has to revenge it. Like, his friend screws him over and joins the villain. Now the hero wants revenge on both of them.
Some guy sells the hero a broken weapon, now he wants revenge for that.
Some guy overpriced his items, now he wants revenge for it.

LMAO

(Hero fighting Slime) Hero: You hit me! REVENGE! 
(Having to do a mission in order to obtain information) Hero: I'll get revenge on you someday...*eyes squint*

The best part would be the hero does get his revenge, and that adds more to the humor.

---

Ok, I hate cliches in movies and books. Video Games are better off. Also a Chosen One isn't a cliche, it is just an overused function. In my stuff, I've put a slight twist by lots of conflicting destinies, and lots of Chosens, some of which end up destroying someone else's prophecy in order to fulfill theres. But mainly, cliche's don't go well in serious games. You can get away with "I'm your father" or "I'm your older brother who you thought was dead", but it is annoying.

P.S. Paper Mario is an exception, cliche's make mario. I also love the times when they said something like "what is this 1 button I speak of? Don't worry, the great being who controls our actions knows." I loled when that happened.

Well, I'll have to say it's overused to the point that cliche and abuse are synonymous with each other. People in communities have different perspectives on what a cliche really is, and from the top of my head, a Cliche is a phrase that is used so much to the point that it doesn't have as much force as it would've had the first time or its peak. Cliches usually relate to idioms, at least that's what I remember. So using that sort of logic, if the Chosen One were to used so much (Which it is, Chosen One is virtually the same as "Legendary Hero" is the main character or "The destined one that'll save the world" blah blah blah), then it is a cliche. But I don't really want to deal with debating, it's not my forte, and I'll instantly lose. Well, let me just say this. If you haven't played Symphonia, prepared to be spoiled. It's so unlikely that Kratos would be Lloyd's father, and to the point that you instead of going "OMG" (Well, you probably would be going that, but nevertheless), you would be rather going "That was random" or "Ookay..."...Since why would Kratos have a baby after I don't know...1000 years of fighting and etcetera? Maybe he's a little lonely and lookin' for a little loving? I can't remember how the Symphonia story goes now but this seems to be true. It's been a long time since I'm acquainted with the series, but I have one thing to say to end this. Genis X Presea FTW!

Super Paper Mario is not a bad game. It's a very excellent game by all means, very fun. There are funny parts towards it. Just to tell you though, Miyamoto is the cliche master since he was the one that developed the "Damsel in Distress" scenario. He was, Donkey Kong (If you count Pauline as a princess) or Super Mario Brothers really had it. If he's not the creator, then call him the messenger, the missionary. Mario made those cliches, it's kind of all right for him to have it. It's just so predictable it's funny. And the great beings? That's indeed a classic, love that.

Besides, this is all opinion, we're just stating our reasonings why stuff like this are okay. In my eyes, cliches by all means are acceptable in the way you are executing them. I won't snuff them out and deduct points on it (If I were to be a reviewer), but I will do so if the story just plain stinks because I'm such a fickly person like that.