Hatred

Started by Blizzard, October 25, 2014, 05:14:56 pm

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Blizzard

IDK if you saw this trailer yet. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytdEYapPXdY

IMO this game is in poor taste. Games like Postal 2 were at least tongue-in-cheek, and GTA was never depicting sadism in this kind of way where people beg you not to kill them. There has to be a boundary and I think that this game overstepped it.

Spoiler: ShowHide
For the lulz, here's the kids-friendly version. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NsjHbX_Fsw
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KK20

Can't believe you missed Tug's post
http://forum.chaos-project.com/index.php/topic,14617.0.html

I'm wondering who this game's intended audience is supposed to be.





   


   
   


   
   

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fjshrr5

Quote from: KK20 on October 25, 2014, 05:29:42 pm
Can't believe you missed Tug's post
http://forum.chaos-project.com/index.php/topic,14617.0.html

I'm wondering who this game's intended audience is supposed to be.


School shooters, People with mental issues, and the like.
When i seen the trailer to this game, i couldn't believe it.. This game has bad news written all over it.

winkio

I don't know how big of a deal this is.  There are already certain cutscenes/scenarios in modern day shooters/dark action games with similar interactions, but on a much smaller scale.  There are also a number of movies with really intense, stomach turning scenes, as well as books, comics, blogs, etc.  Not everyone who is into this type of stuff is a mass murder waiting to go on a killing spree.  In fact, if you look at some of the recent events, the killers weren't really into this stuff, most were just normal people that either got into a fight over something or got into long term depression for one reason or another.

That said, I think the game is trash, and nobody would even notice it if it weren't for the media coverage.

Ranquil

Chillax, guys.

This pretty much describes how I feel about the game.
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fjshrr5

Quote from: winkio on October 25, 2014, 07:00:46 pm
I don't know how big of a deal this is.  There are already certain cutscenes/scenarios in modern day shooters/dark action games with similar interactions, but on a much smaller scale.  There are also a number of movies with really intense, stomach turning scenes, as well as books, comics, blogs, etc.  Not everyone who is into this type of stuff is a mass murder waiting to go on a killing spree.  In fact, if you look at some of the recent events, the killers weren't really into this stuff, most were just normal people that either got into a fight over something or got into long term depression for one reason or another.

That said, I think the game is trash, and nobody would even notice it if it weren't for the media coverage.



I think the main problem in my opinion, Is the trailer for the game. Seems like the whole point of the game is to run through a neighborhood killing anybody in sight. It's just in bad taste.

Ryex

I'm on the fence.

On one hand I'm all for freedom of expression no matter what the form, after all I'v seen far more disturbing imagery in horror movies. this expression allows us to explore our own reactions and better understand and thus improve ourselves .I'm also of the opinion that interacting with the imagery like in game can allow for a more thorough digestion of the topics involved.

On the  other hand if this game isn't rated adults only it damn well should be. and and parent who buys the game for, or allows their child under an appropriate age to play it should be ashamed of themselves. only a solid mind is capable of dealing appropriately with something like this. and while that fact does not mean it should be outright banned or the authors should be criticised for it's creation it does mean that people should practice restraint in it's consumption.


I'll agree however that the trailer is completely in bad taste. a trailer should be appropriate for most viewing audiences.
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chaucer

Haha yeah, I agree with what was said in that video, though, it's a game and should be treated as just that, how many people can honestly say they played a batman game then went out and tried to be a real super hero, and imo GTA is just as bad of an influence as this, the whole point of GTA is to go around the city and be a gangster lol. Steal cars, sell drugs/buy drugs, pick up prostitutes (not to metnion you can also kill people). Also honestly if you're life is so strongly influenced by a video game, you've gotta get your priorities straight. Anyways it don't look too bad I'd probably play it (if I had a console lol).

ForeverZer0

I agree with chaucer. And if you are referring to minor children who someone might try to argue can be so easily influenced, then it is the responsibility of the parents to decide if their child will play it or not, same as they decide what movies they may watch. Honestly, who has played GTA and not went on a killing spree of innocent civilians just for fun? Does that make us all run out and do it?
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WhiteRose

I've never really found much interest in games like GTA, Saints Row, Watch_Dogs, and others that fit into such a genre. As such, I don't feel like I'm in a position where I can really say much about this game; it's a lot easier to find fault in a game when it's not the type of game that you would ever play in the first place based simply on the style of core game play, to say nothing of the other elements of the game.

As far as the trailer itself is concerned, I find myself agreeing with KK20 that the trailer doesn't seem to be very clear who it is targeting. From the elements that are presented and the clips of gameplay, it seems to be somewhere along the lines of a GTA-type game, but it could be something else. So, it's not really focusing on the gameplay. It could, then, be story based, but it also doesn't present much of a premise for a story outside of acts of graphic violence. As winkio said, violence is a spice that exists in media and is integral to a number of genres of story-telling in any form, but, in my opinion, it by itself cannot be the foundation of a story. So, the trailer isn't about the story. I guess really the only thing the trailer appears to be trying to sell, as far as I can tell, is the "atmosphere" of the game. It is at this point that, again, I find myself being far enough outside of the targeted audience that I'm unable to comment whether this is a "good" or "bad" game, aside from the fact that it doesn't look like something I would play.

At the very least, I do think it is unfortunate that, whether or not the game is good, it provides ammunition to those who villainize gaming as a hobby.

Ryex

as I understand it the core premise of the game (according to the developers) is "good old mindless violence". there is no story, no goal outside of killing as many people as you can and have fun doing it.

I know there are people for which thats a blast and for them I say "have at it, so long as you're mature enough to separate the fantasy from the reality".
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ForeverZer0

October 26, 2014, 12:30:33 am #11 Last Edit: October 26, 2014, 12:31:39 am by ForeverZer0
I don't think that anyone has ever killed because of a videogame. Sure, there are psycho kids out there that have done sick things, and have also played violent games, but you can not say that the videogame is what caused it. A more likely explanation is that sick kids who are into violence obviously enjoy violent things, such as videogames.

People who watch incest porn do so because they are sick and into that sort of thing. Watching it did not turn them that way. Everyone needs to get place things in their proper sequence and quit blaming the terrible things that people do on things that have nothing to do with it. People are sick, and will always be sick. You cannot blame a game, a movie, a song, a picture, or anything else on it. I don't know why everyone is so scared to just point out the obvious and call a fucked up 12 year old who kills his classmates what he is: a sick disturbed fuck that had serious issues way before he ever played a game. No, no, we need to blame it on something, or say that he was somehow influenced by a game or whatever else is convenient. Everyone knows the difference between shooting someone in a game, and doing so in real life, and if you don't, then no how many games you don't play, you are still going to not know the difference, and you have bigger issues that need addressed before we start worrying about your taste in games.
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Blizzard

October 26, 2014, 03:24:32 am #12 Last Edit: October 26, 2014, 03:30:43 am by Blizzard
Quote from: KK20 on October 25, 2014, 05:29:42 pm
Can't believe you missed Tug's post
http://forum.chaos-project.com/index.php/topic,14617.0.html

I'm wondering who this game's intended audience is supposed to be.


LOL! Yeah, it seems that I skimmed over it. O_o

@winkio: There is a big difference between having a shocking scene to deepen and the game revolving around, encouraging and glorifying massacres of innocent people. It's not about this game possibly spawning mass murderers (idiots are going to be idiots, regardless of what games they play or don't play), but about the game glorifying something horrible and depicting it as something "normal" (if you will). In other games, even games like Postal 2 or GTA, it's not your main goal to murder innocent people. There is always a context. And when some messed up stuff happens in the story, it's a shock, it's not the default setting of the entire game. Even games where you are some sort of murderer did it in a fashion where it at least made sense. Here the only point is some psycho going on a killing spree. If this game is ok, then an Auschwitz Simulator game is ok, too, because it's actually less intense.

@fjshrr5: You mean that's not the point of the game? I don't know, but the game seems to revolve around just that.

@Ryex: No, I'm not for banning the game or anything. I'm also for freedom of expression. I've seen some messed up shit in movies as well. But this game is completely insensible towards all mass shootings that ever occurred. I remember months ago that we had a discussion about whether games warp the mind and we came to the conclusion that it probably affects only younger kids. Imagine children actually playing this game. This is not a good thing.

@chaucer & F0: Yes, GTA is pretty bad in this regard. But GTA still only lets you assume a certain role that is a reality for many people. Nobody forces you to kill people or drive like a maniac off-mission. And the game doesn't encourage you to torture your victims and make them beg for their lives. This game looks like it does.

@Rose: Well said. Violence as a spice, yes, that is expression. But making the game revolve around it actively encourage sadism? No, just no.

Quote from: WhiteRose on October 25, 2014, 10:34:38 pm
At the very least, I do think it is unfortunate that, whether or not the game is good, it provides ammunition to those who villainize gaming as a hobby.


And sadly it will. :/

Quote from: Ryex on October 26, 2014, 12:17:16 am
as I understand it the core premise of the game (according to the developers) is "good old mindless violence". there is no story, no goal outside of killing as many people as you can and have fun doing it.


And I see nothing wrong with that in general. But from the trailer it doesn't look like that. It looks like part of the gameplay is actively torturing people.

@F0: I agree. And I'm not even arguing that. I don't think that anybody will turn a murderer because of this game. (There are even studies that show that people who play violent games tend to be less violent, because the game actually provides venting to them.) I'm saying that the game is wrong, because it's going way too far. If this game is ok, then Auschwitz Simulator is ok. And they're not.




And finally: Haters gonna hate Hatred, lol

EDIT: @Ranquil: She did say it pretty well. I still think they went too far though.
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Praelium


Blizzard

So you're saying a game with an actual story is the same as an arcade game without a story?
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Quote from: Barney StinsonWhen I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

chaucer

October 26, 2014, 08:05:10 am #15 Last Edit: October 26, 2014, 08:38:59 am by chaucer
Hmm forgive me if I offend you I don't mean to, but so let me get this right. You feel its ok to kill people in GTA cause its not part of the story, and its ok to sell drugs in it as well which in real life a lot of people do die from, also people even get murdered over drugs, but its alright cause in GTA there's a story? As well its ok to kill people in call of duty, and similar titles cause you're killing the "bad guys" but murder is murder, regardless if someone's begging for they're life or not, let's look at it this way in the Halloween movies, Michael Meyers kills people just cause they're in his way most of the time as well as Chucky in the childs play movies all the other killer/slasher movies etc, its ok in the movie right? Now let's say someone makes a video game where you play as Michael Meyers for example, wouldn't it be something similar to hatred? Except without the guns of course, would that video game cross the line, as well? If that's the case then all slasher/horror movies should be crossing the line too, take a look at the movie slashers as well as similar titles. Also, like you said no one is forced to kill in GTA unless part of the story of course, and no one is forced to buy this game or play it on that same note. Also who knows maybe you don't HAVE to kill people in hatred maybe they'll add an application system to the game where you can apply to a job at Walmart or target and live a mediocre life and grow to be a bitter old man but still hate people haha, that last part was just a joke by the way, again mean no disrespect this is only my opinion on the matter.

Blizzard

No, you misunderstood me. The story is arbitrary. In GTA the point of the game, the goal of the game is not to go around and torture people. If you decide to do that, it your own choice. But in Hatred that's the whole point of the game. So by just buying the game, you are committing to this kind of gameplay (except if you can apply for a job in Walmart, lol).

If somebody made a movie of somebody going on a spree just to show all the gore without any point or context whatsoever, I would think that it's wrong, too. If somebody made a movie about the whole process and psychological breakdown of a person who then goes on a spree, that's different. That movie would have a message. It would explore the darker impulses in all of us, it would explore our psychological limits, ramifications and responsibility. Who's fault would it be? The guy who went on killing everyone or society's for pushing him that far? I mean, a movie having a killing spree could be a masterpiece for all we know if they did it right. But if they just did a shitty recording of people getting murdered and tortured without much context or point, I think that this movie wouldn't have any kind of value whatsoever. And from the trailer Hatred looks to me exactly like that. It looks like a murder spree without point or context. If they wanted to make a fun arcade shooting game where the whole point is killing stuff, that could have been done in better taste.
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Quote from: winkioI do not speak to bricks, either as individuals or in wall form.

Quote from: Barney StinsonWhen I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

chaucer

ahh ok i got it now, also sorry my last post made me come off as a d**k I think, I re-read it and it's not how I intended it so my bad on that, no offence was intended though. Actually there was a movie where a guy went on a killing spree just because, and it was a pretty damn good movie, American Psycho. He didnt go out and just shoot random people(except one guy toward the end of the movie) but he's killing pretty much just because. I think this game will have a bigger popularity for horror/slasher fans than psychotic/border-line crazy people if anything.  Also who knows, I've seen some pretty horrible game trailers, and thought this game's gonna suck but it actually came out well(same with movie titles) and vice versa so I won't pass judgement on the game yet it might have a morale at the end of the game or a twist ending, or something, however I could be wrong also. Also just cause the developers said it's "good old mindless violence" don't mean there is no plot or point to the game, it's not like in most games the developers tell you the ending(although sometimes they are as obvious as they seem).

Praelium

I think a storyline is a lame excuse for violence in games. I know enough people that play GTA just for the giant massacres, Assassin's Creed just for the assassinations, Sniper Elite for the gory killcams, ...

ForeverZer0

This is the same reason I will not play the original Mario Bros. I cannot stand the violence of jumping on the head of a Goomba, smashing the life right out of him, just for a 100 points. I have shivers just thinking about it.
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