SSBB

[Subsonic_Noise]

LOLWHAT?

when did SSB get so serious that sarcasm was necessary?
when it comes to video-games there is no such thing as a right opinion.

1. I just like sarcasm and annoying winkio, and here I had the opportunity to do both at the same time!
2. That was actually what I was trying to say.

People programmed these games.  Based on the analysis of this code, you can gather information.  Knowledge and experience are indeed correct.  For example, you can take a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitation.  Also, I stated no opinions.  I stated facts.

and here's the experience:
termina bay, I easily four stocked a player that is above my skill level by just picking a good grabbing character.
new final destination, you can get stuck under the overhang very easily with most characters.
Bridge of eldin, dedede can chain garb you to death and you can do nothing to stop it.
and sonic, who I play at a very high level, alas has no kill moves or priority.  He is just not a good character (doesn't mean he is unplayable, I've won against very good players with him).

And I beat a team of 3 really good people with Jigglypuff.

[winkio]

no, you do not know really good people at this game.

[Subsonic_Noise]

no, you do not know really good people at this game.

Obviously, because you really know what kind of people I know.

[Vell]

I use a Wiimote and nunchuk. I got stuck with a really bad controller and had to learn the wiimote+nunchuk and now can't play without it. I also hated using the C-stick and hate people who DO use the c-stick as much as I hate edge-hoggers. Especially already winning edge-hoggers. Seriously, if you're beating me anyway, what's the goddamn point in killing me with such a cheap tactic? Play fairly, that's the only way it's fun.

[winkio]

Edge game is what SSBB is about.  It's what makes it unique.  And C sticking and edge hogging are not any cheaper than the cape, the snakedash, wavedashing, suiciding, chain throws, perfect shielding, etc.

[Diokatsu]

lol@

talking about Brawl competition as if anyone takes it seriously.
arguing that using certain tactics are cheap because you don't have the skill or the foresight to counter them.
taking video games in general as a serious measure of any skill whatsoever. Where I'm from, it's called "having no life".

And, btw, winkio, if you beat a player who is "more skilled" by predicting the playstyle necessary to defeat him, isn't that more skillful? Isn't it a tactical skill to judge terrain and the opponent when choosing your method of battle? Not to say that these "skills" are properly names. More like, acquired habits that only have influence in a 2D world of fucking plumbers and dragons and talking foxes.

Anyways, why the fuck are people arguing about a children's video game? It's based on a bunch of cute and fun E rated games made by a company that can't release a game that doesn't look like it was made by Disney anymore. If we're going to argue like this, I'll just have to inform you that I'm thoroughly better than all of you and I'd love to prove it. Seriously, you're all very bad and I'm so much fucking better. End. Of. Fucking. Story. Ok?

[winkio]

1.  Video games can be taken just as seriously as sports.  It's not like you focus your entire life, you just focus on understanding the details more so that you can play at a higher level, because it's more fun.  Think of it this way: you can play soccer by having a kick around with friends, which is fun, but you can join a team, practice, and play and a league, and that is much more fun.  (No, I didn't join a smash team, and I don't play in a league)

2.  More skillful players lose to less skillful players sometimes.  That's just how it works (I've beaten the same player from time to time in normal play).  But especially when they are at a crippling disadvantage.

3.  Keep laughing at your own trolling.  Because nobody else does.  You can spout nonsense and not back it up, but nobody will listen.  They will just mark you off as a looney.

[Vell]

lol@

talking about Brawl competition as if anyone takes it seriously.
arguing that using certain tactics are cheap because you don't have the skill or the foresight to counter them.
taking video games in general as a serious measure of any skill whatsoever. Where I'm from, it's called "having no life".

And, btw, winkio, if you beat a player who is "more skilled" by predicting the playstyle necessary to defeat him, isn't that more skillful? Isn't it a tactical skill to judge terrain and the opponent when choosing your method of battle? Not to say that these "skills" are properly names. More like, acquired habits that only have influence in a 2D world of fucking plumbers and dragons and talking foxes.

Anyways, why the fuck are people arguing about a children's video game? It's based on a bunch of cute and fun E rated games made by a company that can't release a game that doesn't look like it was made by Disney anymore. If we're going to argue like this, I'll just have to inform you that I'm thoroughly better than all of you and I'd love to prove it. Seriously, you're all very bad and I'm so much fucking better. End. Of. Fucking. Story. Ok?

I'm in a sort of random bad mood.

so instead of beginning a tl;dr rant, I'm just to tell you to fuck off and get out of my topic if you're going to be a troll about it.


@Winkio: the thing is Wink, I don't play for competition. I play for fun. I also like to play with people on or above my level. But not people who take it seriously. I don't mind it when people use the c-stick. I don't like it, but I'm not going to freak out and scream at you about it. I don't care about the suicide moves: Kirbyciding and the like have a tendency to also kill the user, and most are pretty easily avoided. And I dunno about you, but I don't know many people who can consistently Perfect Shield. And so what? It's not like anyone NEEDS to - the shield recovers very fast and if your shield breaks you suck.

In short: I don't like people who edge hog because it takes the fun out of the game. You didn't best me, you didn't get a good hit in, hell, you didn't even get LUCKY. You acted on an opportunity to make a giant ass out of yourself. Yeah, it's not illegal and it's perfectly fine for you to do it. Just you're not going to get respect for it.

I don't mind losing. I'm not a competitive person. What I do mind is when I lose because of idiotic stupidity like 'HURFDURFIMAPREVENTYOUFROMGETTINGBACKONSTAGEHURFDURFANDTHERESNOTHINGYOUCANDOABOUTITDERP'

It's completely different from using Ike's Side-b to get back on stage. That's a good recovery, but a risky maneuver. The enemy can just jump into your path and take the hit, thus forcing you to fall to your doom. But that's different. It's not 'I'm going to sit comfortably in my invincibility frames as you try frantically to get back on stage!'

[winkio]

I can perfectly respect not wanting to play competitively.  But really, edgehogging is part of the game, stealing that edge before your opponent can get it, and there are things that are much worse, like planking: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IzXR3W-f2I&feature=related

[Ryex]

that is an incredibly cheep way to play the game. I don't care how possible or fair it is, using a tactic that put the other player at such a disadvantage is no way to play. the video you posted, the guy said his opponent called him a cowered, that hit the nail on the head. that IS a cowardly way to play

[winkio]

right, I dislike both planking and camping in general, but the fun of the game is finding a way to overcome it.

[SBR*]

Well, I like sonic for 2v2, since he is really fast. Especcialy when fighting CPU's. But I don't play a character because he is so strong, but because I like to play with that character. Just like Great Bay. Maybe it sucks, but I don't care . And I've never had any trouble with Final Destination.

I don't like edge hogging, nor do I dislike it. I am really bad at it, but on the other side, in my days of melee, I loved to slide towards the edge . On the other side, I prefer playing the game 'fair', so no cheap tricks. So, I'm kinda confused about it. I guess I have to think about this more...

[Vell]

right, I dislike both planking and camping in general, but the fun of the game is finding a way to overcome it.

I disagree, but this is an opinion and as such yours isn't wrong. In mine, the fun of the game is having a tough match against a skilled opponent, and if I end up losing, well it was a good match. Which is why I hate cheap tactics. Edge hogging isn't a strategy or a tactic. It's abusing the system. Cowardly, like planking.

[SBR*]

*even more confused* OH NO! WHAT DO I THINK?!

[Diokatsu]

lol@

talking about Brawl competition as if anyone takes it seriously.
arguing that using certain tactics are cheap because you don't have the skill or the foresight to counter them.
taking video games in general as a serious measure of any skill whatsoever. Where I'm from, it's called "having no life".

And, btw, winkio, if you beat a player who is "more skilled" by predicting the playstyle necessary to defeat him, isn't that more skillful? Isn't it a tactical skill to judge terrain and the opponent when choosing your method of battle? Not to say that these "skills" are properly names. More like, acquired habits that only have influence in a 2D world of fucking plumbers and dragons and talking foxes.

Anyways, why the fuck are people arguing about a children's video game? It's based on a bunch of cute and fun E rated games made by a company that can't release a game that doesn't look like it was made by Disney anymore. If we're going to argue like this, I'll just have to inform you that I'm thoroughly better than all of you and I'd love to prove it. Seriously, you're all very bad and I'm so much fucking better. End. Of. Fucking. Story. Ok?

I'm in a sort of random bad mood.

so instead of beginning a tl;dr rant, I'm just to tell you to fuck off and get out of my topic if you're going to be a troll about it.


@Winkio: the thing is Wink, I don't play for competition. I play for fun. I also like to play with people on or above my level. But not people who take it seriously. I don't mind it when people use the c-stick. I don't like it, but I'm not going to freak out and scream at you about it. I don't care about the suicide moves: Kirbyciding and the like have a tendency to also kill the user, and most are pretty easily avoided. And I dunno about you, but I don't know many people who can consistently Perfect Shield. And so what? It's not like anyone NEEDS to - the shield recovers very fast and if your shield breaks you suck.

In short: I don't like people who edge hog because it takes the fun out of the game. You didn't best me, you didn't get a good hit in, hell, you didn't even get LUCKY. You acted on an opportunity to make a giant ass out of yourself. Yeah, it's not illegal and it's perfectly fine for you to do it. Just you're not going to get respect for it.

I don't mind losing. I'm not a competitive person. What I do mind is when I lose because of idiotic stupidity like 'HURFDURFIMAPREVENTYOUFROMGETTINGBACKONSTAGEHURFDURFANDTHERESNOTHINGYOUCANDOABOUTITDERP'

It's completely different from using Ike's Side-b to get back on stage. That's a good recovery, but a risky maneuver. The enemy can just jump into your path and take the hit, thus forcing you to fall to your doom. But that's different. It's not 'I'm going to sit comfortably in my invincibility frames as you try frantically to get back on stage!'

Funny thing was, I wasn't trolling. That was completely serious. The end? Yeah, that was a bit sarcastic, but it made jsut as much sense as winkio asserting a presumption over S_N's skill level. It was satirizing the general nonsense that these kinds of debates lead to. It wasn't trolling, you assfag, it was picking up on the irony of the situation in this thread and others like it where no legitimate proof is given, but people still try and make outrageous claims.

It's funny though, it seems you all picked up on my point even if you didn't say it outright, because the general trend, which was argumentative and egocentric, has now become more accepting gained an awareness that you may not be the only correct one.

[Vell]

I dunno 'bout others, but I always assume I'm not the only correct one. Also last night I was in a really bad mood and willing to lash out at anything. So.

[legacyblade]

I don't see why everyone think sonic sucks so bad Even with his smashball, if you use the right moves you can kill with him. I don't use him anymore, but I was good with him for awhile. But my favorite has to be Olimar.

Another thing that I notice with a lot of the more experienced smash gamers is that they decide certain things about the game just are for the noobs. While sonic's final smash (and arguably the landmasters) are horribly overpowered and for the noobs, very little in this game is. Like Ulta said, a truly skilled player can take the stage and other factors into account. I personally think that not using items are for 1 on 1 battles, or the snobs. Items add an extra dynamic to the combat system that takes skill to integrate properly into your strategies. Ya, noobs can lord with items, but true pros can lord over the noobs who are using said items. I personally prefer brawl to mele (now that I used homebrew to remove tripping), because it feels more fleshed out. The other was ALL about combos. This one is about different strategies, which makes it feel less like other fighting games.

Besides, if you get good you can do 0 to death combos with just about any character. I do it with olimar rather frequently, it just requires a lot of chasing after people and hitting them before they can get the chance to move again.

P.S. Final destination is annoyingly easy to recover in if you're olimar. Even if you get metor-smashed off the edge. You just immediately press up-B and if you have most of your pikmen you will grab the ledge.

P.P.S. Ulta, just because you can't counter the ledge hogging strategy doesn't make it cheap. It's a big part of this game.

P.P.P.S. My post sucks when it comes to organization. My brain is farting I think.

[Diokatsu]

I don't see why everyone think sonic sucks so bad Even with his smashball, if you use the right moves you can kill with him. I don't use him anymore, but I was good with him for awhile. But my favorite has to be Olimar.

Another thing that I notice with a lot of the more experienced smash gamers is that they decide certain things about the game just are for the noobs. While sonic's final smash (and arguably the landmasters) are horribly overpowered and for the noobs, very little in this game is. Like Ulta said, a truly skilled player can take the stage and other factors into account. I personally think that not using items are for 1 on 1 battles, or the snobs. Items add an extra dynamic to the combat system that takes skill to integrate properly into your strategies. Ya, noobs can lord with items, but true pros can lord over the noobs who are using said items. I personally prefer brawl to mele (now that I used homebrew to remove tripping), because it feels more fleshed out. The other was ALL about combos. This one is about different strategies, which makes it feel less like other fighting games.

Besides, if you get good you can do 0 to death combos with just about any character. I do it with olimar rather frequently, it just requires a lot of chasing after people and hitting them before they can get the chance to move again.

P.S. Final destination is annoyingly easy to recover in if you're olimar. Even if you get metor-smashed off the edge. You just immediately press up-B and if you have most of your pikmen you will grab the ledge.

P.P.S. Ulta, just because you can't counter the ledge hogging strategy doesn't make it cheap. It's a big part of this game.

P.P.P.S. My post sucks when it comes to organization. My brain is farting I think.

I think the point is that professions want to take any of the factors other than skill out of the picture. I mean, if you get a really great trophy right off the bat in a math, then you really can't counter it. Professionals only ever play professionals in serious games, so the entire point of "Ya, noobs can lord with items, but true pros can lord over the noobs who are using said items." doesn't really mater since no one besides professionals will play professionals in a game that isn't casual. It's a way to make the game less about luck and more about skill, like how some stages are banned because they take a lot of the opportunity for skill to show and replace that with time taken to deal with the stage trying to kill you.

Items can't be factored into any strategy since they're entirely random and the chance to get an item changes based on placement and the game's own item manipulation. You can't predict them, so they're not fair.

[Vell]

I usually don't play with items. It's not cause I think items are for cheap noobs. I just find it more fun without them. That said, occasionally my group will decide to be random and throw items in for kicks. There are only a few of the stages we really hate, but unless it's a moving map we'll play it through.

[Subsonic_Noise]

Items can't be factored into any strategy since they're entirely random and the chance to get an item changes based on placement and the game's own item manipulation. You can't predict them, so they're not fair.

Well, the thing here is, at least for me, that a good player's tactic shouldn't be static but rather dynamic, adapting to the given, sometimes random circumstances, such as items.
I believe that if something is in the game, it belongs to the game and a good player should be able to deal with it. If you can't play with items, you're not a good player.

That being said, it's not like I really care. I play video games for fun. The best games I had where against some of my best friends, using all items, and stage selection set to random. Yes, none of them was really skilled, and I won every single game, but we still had a whole lot of fun and laughed all the time. I don't know about you, but I do think that is what video games should be about.