Valhira Online

[Ryex]

Oh, and also back on topic. Your post made sense, staff should look into such a situation, but you had a slight inaccuracy. Silent Majority is a term that describes the fact that the group that is currently being supported will not voice there opinions unless the opposing group takes power(The fact that it was first used by Nixon descreases it's credibility, but still). Obviously that rule does not apply at a major level here, but it has some implementations. Also keep in mind that this is not the only site he is broadcasting on. If you really want staff attention, though, you should check out the Valhira Forums, which you can access from the site. It has a whole thread dedicated to complaints.

as I said the rule isn't perfect but is still generally hold true. if all the feedback from every site they are one together comes of with a ratio of positive to negative that is greater than or equal to 1:1 then it is an area of concern and needs to be addressed in some way (either reassuring the community, changing the source of the concern, or a combination of both).

[tSwitch]

Dang it! We have not seen this game before. That's all I mean! You can't cut off a feature without testing the freaking thing!
Again, let me say this. If you have never played the game, you can't criticize it. It's like watching previews and then reviewing the movie.

I can very easily write something off after seeing it and disliking it.
That's how the world works.

It's one feature, and I feel that it's a very bad choice.
And I -have- tested it before, I play WoW on a PvP server.  I'm attacked all the time, whether I want to be or not.  
It gets extremely annoying.

Going to go ahead and wait for the dev to say something.

[Blizzard]

My regrets for the drama. Mind if I delete all of my posts that did not apply to the topic. Personally, I would hate reading this if I was trying to find information about the game.

Leave them. I don't think you will really read the topic again until a couple of months, maybe even years pass. When you read them then, you will laugh at the situation and understand what happened better.

[Delusian]

woooow.

Ok a lot of arguing so i thought it would be nice time for me to jump in at the deep end.

I've read most of the posts.

Please read this in a calming voice as I'm not trying to be provocative in any way shape or form.

When pvp only games were first invented, I could imagine people's reactions being negative. Then players adapted to play it. Then it created a new breed of players.

I thought this would be a nice experiment because it would just be a different style. For example a FPS player switching to final fantasy couldn't critics that they thought the game was too slow and the movie sequences were too long. This is because they are used to a different set of rules and when they change it's an unfamiliar ground.

I think however this would be a nice test at the very least. Players that don't want to be involved in PVP I believe won't have any trouble avoiding it. The game is set in three huge halves. The top half is Coterie, the middle is PVP zone and the bottom is Brotherhood. It takes literally hours to get from one side to the other. You can easily walk away from it, get a carriage away and such.

The idea was that it would create a tighter community. The higher levels would have earned a type of respect because they are literally the guardians of your alliance. If a raid does come in while you're around, they would be the people helping. Higher levels would be more encouraged to join guilds or make friends than other MMO's.

I heard a mention at 'when i'm level 40 and my PVP is turned on and someone at level 300 comes to gank me...'. The max level is 60. That leaves only 20 level differences. The levels do create a difference but it would create motivation to level, motivation to join a guild or play with your friends because as a team, your stronger and less worries would be around.

I understand that people are having an issue with the switch from choosing to pick PVP or not and then having that choice taken away. I think at level 40 it shouldn't be a problem with level difference, it should create a tighter community and it'll be a nice new server style.

Again, I'm not being stubborn or ranting. I merely believe this would be a nice attempt of a new style instead of being stuck by the rules of the big MMO's. I'd love to hear your opinions be it negative or positive but please make it constructive criticism. It is merely a concept and because of this topic I thought about a quest of 'honour'. Which would lead you into a tournament. Upon completion you could gain the choice to choose PVP or not again.

All Ideas are welcome.

[Blizzard]

As I already said, people have preferences and people are unwilling to change. If you leave forced PVP, you are limiting the target audience which directly translates into less people playing your game. There are people who will be put off by that fact immediately and won't even try the game. There are people who are willing to try and once they get to level 40, they will stop because they don't want to PVP. There is a small number of people that will embrace the idea. Of those few people one part will try it out, not like it and stop playing. One part will try it out, like it and continue playing. And the last part will force themselves to continue playing even though they don't like it until their frustration increases to an unbearable level that they will stop playing. The problem is not that they will eventually stop playing but that they are the kind of people that spreads information and posts reviews. Trust me, you will encounter a lot of negative response for the level 40 PVP that will overshadow any positive responses and make you regret the day you made that decision because now your game has the reputation of being frustrating which will put off even the players that might have or would enjoyed the PVP. In the end you will be stuck at your reputation and only few people will keep joining the game.
You have to understand that people don't want new and original ideas. Everything that is new and original makes them feel unoriginal and scares them (there's a shitload of psychology involved in there). They want what's already been done a hundred times. They just want it presented differently.

But it's your call. If you don't want to consider the strategic marketing values of your decisions, you don't have to. If I were you, I would consult with a PR agent. What you want or like is not necessarily the same the players want or like. After all you are making a game that others will play, you are not making the game for yourself or only a small inner circle of friends. I've learned that the hard way.

[element]

Lol Blizz, just 2 minutes ago that post was only 4 lines

Though, you're right. I'd stop directly after I reach lvl 40.
Maybe you have to add something else at the end of the pvp. To not make it etertnal PvP after reaching lvl 40 but the choise of small level of PvP for like 5 levels and then get something else to do in the army. Not only being a soldier.

Ah, Idk. Make ur game how u want it 2 be.

[Delusian]

people are unwilling to change.

Which is one of the biggest problems I'm facing here clearly 

People don't want new and original ideas. Everything that is new and original makes them feel unoriginal and scares them (there's a shitload of psychology involved in there). They want what's already been done a hundred times. They just want it presented differently.

Yea I've heard this expression used a lot. It's just I've studied Marxism and such and struggle to allow myself to reproducing the same crap. At the moment I believe the industry is like a dog vomiting and eating its own sick. Just going in circles. I really want to break the chain, create something new and innovative.

I understand the issue many people are having is the fear of PVP.

I'd just like to answer to a few fears.

I don't want to PVP:

That's 100% ok, no need to worry. You can turn you PVP on and off until level 40. When you hit that it will turn on pertinently. However PVP can be avoided

I don't want to be ganked:

That's why we made sure we had the 40+ lock. You don't have PVP turned on permanently until you a good level. The max level is 60. So you can't be one hit killed. You'll have a fighting chance. With training area's specifically made for level 40-60 you won't struggle to level up. It takes well over an hour to get from one side of the world to the other. When they die, they are sent back. It's extremely unlikely they'll be able to keep getting you.

Option:

I'm considering the option of allowing players to complete a quest to gain the option to turn it off. Completion of the quest will gain you the option to turn your PVP off but lose you 'Alliance Points'

Lol Blizz, just 2 minutes ago that post was only 4 lines

Though, you're right. I'd stop directly after I reach lvl 40.
Maybe you have to add something else at the end of the pvp. To not make it etertnal PvP after reaching lvl 40 but the choise of small level of PvP for like 5 levels and then get something else to do in the army. Not only being a soldier.

Ah, Idk. Make ur game how u want it 2 be.

@Element. Thats a nice idea, maybe players could level up in army ranks. In doing so they reach different levels of 'PVP STAGING'. Example:

Level 40-45 is rank one
Level 46-50 is rank two
Level 51-55 is rank three
Level 56-60 is rank four.

Players can only battle those in their rank unless they turn on 'Unlimited Pain Boundaries' option. This would gain them more 'Alliance Points'

[Blizzard]

At the moment I believe the industry is like a dog vomiting and eating its own sick. Just going in circles. I really want to break the chain, create something new and innovative.

Same over here. But unless you become a multi-million-dollar corporation that produces and publishes games, you won't succeed at that. You mustn't be overambitious.

You know, the main problem about forced PVP is that fact alone for itself. It doesn't matter if they can avoid PVP. If they have been enjoying the game with no PVP and suddenly it all changes, it's annoying. It's not the same game anymore. Those people don't care about avoiding PVP, they don't want it at all under any circumstance.

Also, I think you are putting a little bit too much meaning into PVP. It's just PVP. People don't like it if it's complicated and you'll only end up scaring away the people who actually want to PVP because it becomes too complicated. The thing with the quest to turn it off is like forcing the player to do something. And that's no fun.

[Delusian]

The thing with the quest to turn it off is like forcing the player to do something. And that's no fun.

When you hit level 40 perhaps a button could appear saying 'Keep' or 'PVP'. When you hover over Keep it explains you can have the option to turn PVP on or off.
PVP keeps PVP on.

PvP is important because of the background story. This isn't just a game as I explained before. This is just a part of a HUGE story.

[Blizzard]

Ok, this is a great idea. I would even completely remove that from the list of features. If you have a choice, there's not much point mentioning it.

[Delusian]

Ok, this is a great idea. I would even completely remove that from the list of features. If you have a choice, there's not much point mentioning it.

You have a point. The option wouldn't make sense.

So I think i'll leave it as players can do the quest to get the option back but they will lose 'Alliance Points'. This way if players feel that strongly they have an option.

[Ryex]

interesting. as i said you don't have to completely get rid of it in order to not scare players off, just revise it enough that your not scarring them.
another option is that once they reach level 40 they start earning some form of reward that accumulates as they stay in pvp and they can turn pvp off but they have to spend a portion of the reward, it would be a good idea to make it so the reward can also be used for other things too.

[Delusian]

interesting. as i said you don't have to completely get rid of it in order to not scare players off, just revise it enough that your not scarring them.
another option is that once they reach level 40 they start earning some form of reward that accumulates as they stay in pvp and they can turn pvp off but they have to spend a portion of the reward, it would be a good idea to make it so the reward can also be used for other things too.

Well I liked Elements idea (I Customised it slightly to work) but I'm hoping this type of system would work:

@Element. Thats a nice idea, maybe players could level up in army ranks. In doing so they reach different levels of 'PVP STAGING'. Example:

Level 40-45 is rank one
Level 46-50 is rank two
Level 51-55 is rank three
Level 56-60 is rank four.

Players can only battle those in their rank unless they turn on 'Unlimited Pain Boundaries' option. This would gain them more 'Alliance Points'

[element]

I also like the Idea of having 2 playing styles when getting to lvl 40.
Though, don't make it so that u can only choose once if u change to pvp style or non-pvp style.

I like the idea of ranks. Maybe, make it so peaple can earn the ranks on seperate ways. One by doing PvP(fighting in the army), one by retrieving information of the opposite factions(scouts), one by doing something else... Idk
Just Think of the idea of being in war. The army doesn't only need warriors, also scouts, spy's and other people ya know.

Still just a idea

[tSwitch]

It should be a free player choice whether or not they want to PvP.
Forcing them to PvP, or penalizing them for not wanting to PvP is oppressive.

[element]

It should be a free player choice whether or not they want to PvP.
Forcing them to PvP, or penalizing them for not wanting to PvP is oppressive.

Wat she said.

[Delusian]

It should be a free player choice whether or not they want to PvP.
Forcing them to PvP, or penalizing them for not wanting to PvP is oppressive.

True but this kind of statement doesn't really help. I'm looking for constructive criticism rather than just criticism.

The army doesn't only need warriors, also scouts, spy's and other people ya know.

I like this idea. So the choice could be instead of PVP just switching on, you choose what to do. The choice could be between Intelligence collector, Warrior, Scout or Spy.

[Blizzard]

It should be a free player choice whether or not they want to PvP.
Forcing them to PvP, or penalizing them for not wanting to PvP is oppressive.

True but this kind of statement doesn't really help. I'm looking for constructive criticism rather than just criticism.

Actually the constructive part was that you don't do it with the level 40 thing. -_-

[element]

Ok I think you get that strict pvp was a bad idea.
Lett's stop talking about it for now cuz we don't want people to not play the game becuz of that

The army doesn't only need warriors, also scouts, spy's and other people ya know.

I like this idea. So the choice could be instead of PVP just switching on, you choose what to do. The choice could be between Intelligence collector, Warrior, Scout or Spy.

My Ideas are free and without rape afterwards.
Do with them what u want to do with them.

I probably stop now with giving concept ideas cuz this is getting close to my game's concept
Still far enough of it, though.

[Delusian]

It should be a free player choice whether or not they want to PvP.
Forcing them to PvP, or penalizing them for not wanting to PvP is oppressive.

True but this kind of statement doesn't really help. I'm looking for constructive criticism rather than just criticism.

Actually the constructive part was that you don't do it with the level 40 thing. -_-

Yea I meant that it didn't really show an alternative rather than just not putting it in. The system is going in the game but I'd like opinions as to make it friendlier.

As you said, players don't want just the option to turn it off. The mare fact it's there would scare them.
So I've been working out a better way of presenting the system.

You can't be ganked. Creates more realism. Because I love Elements idea and have decided to implement it (because it makes sense) then PVP isn't the necessarily the outcome. You choose how you wish to go forwards. Permanent PVP, the option and be a intelligence gatherer, scout and protector. These will then effect your storyline and quests. It'll make you more involved with the storyline and stop people fearing about the PVP.

Now that's sorted.

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